Drowned in Sound

What happens when you can no longer subsidize creativity with a second job? Part 2 of our conversation with Gareth David digs into the real cost of being a musician in 2026: visa fees, tour buses, the collapse of sync deals, and the brutal math that's turning bedroom producers into solo acts instead of bands.

In Part 2, Gareth explains how the economics of live music are excluding new artists entirely, why class matters more than talent, what happens when a breakup tour costs 50 quid and a reunion costs 100, and whether music could ever work as a genuinely not-for-profit industry.

We also discuss Los Campesinos! 20-year evolution, why they won't do reunion theatrics, the uncomfortable politics of being an openly leftist band, why low-income tickets matter (and why more bands won't do them), and what he'd do with £500 million to fix the industry. Plus: his actual dream for the next 20 years.

Gareth is the lyricist and lead singer of Los Campesinos!, a band who've been walking the walk for twenty years: unconditional support for trans people, rejecting unaligned brand money, low-income tickets for fans, and now, brutal honesty about how much (or how little) the music industry actually pays. In Part 2, he gets into the systemic economics that are reshaping what kind of music gets made and who gets to make it.

Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to hear our podcast companion playlist and discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality. To start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz head to https://qobuz.com/dis.

Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt)

Co-hosted by Helena Wadia, who also co-hosts the Media Storm podcast: https://mediastormpodcast.com/about-us/

Los Campesinos!
https://loscampesinos.com/

Further reading
How much Los Campesinos! made from Spotify
US tour budget breakdown
Explainer of Dublin show budget

Recorded remotely.

Sign up to the DiS newsletter: http://drownedinsound.org

What do bands actually make from ten million Spotify streams? About £32k...

In Part 1 of this conversation, Gareth David from Los Campesinos! walks Helena Wadia and Sean Adams through the numbers and how he felt about Spotify's response.

This radical financial transparency about streaming also goes into the platform's payout structure that puts artists in direct competition with each other, and explains why "just support artists on Bandcamp" misses the complexity of who actually owns the rights.

Gareth is the lyricist and lead singer of Los Campesinos!, a band who've been walking the walk for twenty years: unconditional support for trans people, rejecting unaligned brand money, low-income tickets for fans, and now, brutal honesty about how much (or how little) the music industry actually pays.

In part 1, Gareth explains the economics of streaming, the difference between artists and rights holders, and what happens when you release an album the same month as Taylor Swift. Next week, Part 2 goes into their sold-out 2024 North American tour accounts, where nearly £50,000 went on a tour bus alone.

Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to hear our podcast companion playlist and discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality. To start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz head to https://qobuz.com/dis.

Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt)

Co-hosted by Helena Wadia, who also co-hosts the Media Storm podcast: https://mediastormpodcast.com/about-us/

Los Campesinos
https://loscampesinos.com/

Further reading
How much Los Campesinos made from Spotify
US tour budget breakdown
Explainer of Dublin show budget

Sign up to the DiS newsletter: http://drownedinsound.org

00:00:00 - Welcome, Los Campesinos, and radical transparency

00:02:13 - Starting the band on message boards

00:04:06 - Why Gareth decided to share specific numbers

00:06:39 - The shock of the real streaming numbers

00:09:21 - What's the most ethical way to support bands

00:11:52 - Rights holders vs. artists on Bandcamp

00:13:16 - Spotify's response to transparency criticism

00:17:22 - Taylor Swift and the algorithm's impact

00:18:44 - Keeping music on Spotify while critiquing the platform

00:22:11 - Newsletter break and topic switch

00:23:34 - Why tour transparency matters to Los Campesinos fans

00:24:30 - Come to Brazil, come to Australia (but why they can't)

00:27:30 - How touring with two children changes everything

00:28:55 - Making venue logistics work with kids on tour

00:31:44 - Qobuz sponsorship message

00:32:59 - Keeping ticket prices low as an ideological choice

00:35:35 - Low-income tickets and the ticket bank

00:39:47 - Part 2 announcement and tour income preview

Helena Wadia and Sean Adams caught up with intellectual property expert Dr Hayleigh Bosher to discuss AI, Addison Rae, ICE, Taylor Swift, deep fakes, trademarks, consent, copyright, Samsung, and Dua Lipa.

The episode begins with our reaction to this clip of Lambrini Girls on Channel 4, in which Phoebe says "AI is going to be the thing that kills art entirely."

Don't worry, this isn't just doom-spiralling about our descent into technofascism, this episode hopefully answers everything you wanted to know about the contractions of the tech revolution we're living through.

In this wide ranging chat about AI, consent, copyright, and double standards, we discuss whether Addison Rae might win her case against ICE for using her music without her consent (at the time of publishing, the video is still on Insatgram here). Explore why Taylor Swift is trademarking herself and whether it will it stop deep fakes. And we explore why Dua Lipa is suing Samsung for £15m?!

We also touch upon the UK government's AI consultation.

Dr. Hayleigh Bosher appeared on season 1 of the Drowned in Sound podcast. She's a goto for breaking news on BBC and Sky, because she's an expert in Intellectual Property Law at Brunel University London, specialising in copyright within the creative industries, particularly music, social media, and AI. She authored the book Copyright in the Music Industry (order the second edition), hosts the podcast Whose Song is it Anyway?

You'll find all of Hayleigh’s links here. 

Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to hear our weekly podcast companion playlists and discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis.

Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt)

p.s. Helena's podcast Media Storm returns this week, make sure you're subscribed on Apple Podcasts.

"Disappointing" is the word of the week in the UK music biz, after the UK government seem to have kicked the can down the road on tackling ticket touts aka "secondary ticketing".

Why? The King's Speech happened yesterday. The Keir Starmer's Labour government promised to end ticket touting. And yet...

What we got was a draft bill. Buried on page 64 of a supplementary document. Not in the speech itself. Not legislation. Not a law. A draft, which means more consultations, an uncertain timeline, and the door left open for the secondary ticketing platforms to shape whatever comes next.

DiS podcast host Sean Adams revisits the full sixteen-year history of this fight, from Sharon Hodgson's Private Member's Bill in 2010, through the Channel 4 Dispatches investigation, the Waterson Review, the founding of the FanFair Alliance, the Digital Economy Act, the CMA's rejected recommendations, Labour's manifesto promise, the Oasis dynamic pricing scandal, and the November 2025 announcement that made everyone think change was finally coming.

Then he's rejoined by Kat Cereda, spokesperson for Which?, to dig into what a draft bill actually means, why secondary ticketing websites getting involved in shaping the legislation is exactly what campaigners feared, and what Which? does next.

And at the end of the episode, Adam Webb from the FanFair Alliance gives his reaction - he's someone who has been in the trenches of this campaign since 2016.

Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis.

Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt)

Recorded at The Shure Experience Centre, London.

Sign up to the DiS newsletter: http://drownedinsound.org

Which?
Stop Fleecing Fans campaign: https://www.which.co.uk/campaigns/stop-fleecing-fans

FanFair Alliance
https://fanfairalliance.org/

Music Fans Voice
https://musicfansvoice.uk/

CMS Committee Fan-Led Review of Live and Electronic Music
https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/213147/

Further reading
Everything you need to know about gig tickets: https://www.drownedinsound.org/gig-tickets/

Previous episodes in this series
Kat Cereda (Which?) on the open letter to Keir Starmer: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-uk-government-promised-to-end-ticket-touting-so/id1037405920?i=1000764130066 
Adam Webb (FanFair Alliance) on ticket resale and the FanFair campaign: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uk-caps-ticket-resale-at-face-value-what-took-so-long/id1037405920?i=1000737461606

 

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Over 4,000 music fans responded to the Culture, Media and Sport Committee’s Fan-Led Review into Live Music and Electronic Music and in this week's episode DiS founder Sean Adams and co-host Helena Wadia reacted to this important report that could revolutionise live music in the UK.

Alongside the in-depth analysis of the state of live music and what music fans want, there's also The Fans' Charter.

Much shorter than the 100-page report, the Fans' Charter has 50 recommendations that the government, the industry, and local authorities should implement, from ending ticket touting to improving late night transport and simple things like the live industry sharing timings so fans can plan their night out accordingly.

We would urge you to head over here to read the fan-led review and then pop your postcode into TheyWorkForYou and WhoCanIVoteFor to gently encourage your representatives to read the report.

The government have less than 2 months to respond and the more MPs, councillors, and mayors that read it, the better.

Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to hear Helena's playlist and to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality. Start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis.

This episode was edited by: http://tell.studio 

Co-hosted by Helena Wadia, who also co-hosts the Media Storm podcast: https://mediastormpodcast.com/about-us/

Recorded at The Shure Experience Centre, London.

Sign up to our newsletter at http://drownedinsound.org