Drowned in Sound

The UK music industry generated £7.6 billion last year. Taylor Swift became a billionaire off the back of a tour. So why are some artists still losing money every time they play a show?

That's the question at the heart of this episode, as Sean sits down with David Martin, CEO of the Featured Artists Coalition (FAC), and musician and former FAC board member Roxanne de Bastion to talk about the newly launched UK Artist Touring Fund (UKAT).

Applications are open now. If you are a touring artist, go to thefac.org/ukatfund before midnight on 20 March 2026. Or stay tuned for phase two.

The fund distributes money raised through a voluntary £1 levy on arena and stadium tickets - contributed by tours from artists including Harry Styles, Katy Perry, Coldplay, Radiohead and Enter Shikari - to help emerging and mid-tier artists cover genuine shortfalls on their UK headline tours. In Phase One, artists can receive up to £7,000, covering up to 40% of tour expenditure.

In this episode we cover:

- Why the music industry can be booming at the top while artists on the road are losing money every night - and how British artists' share of the global market has fallen from around 17% to 9% in the last nine years.

- The real costs of touring - from Travelodge bills and van hire to session fees, sound engineers and childcare - and how costs have risen sharply since 2022 while support fees have barely moved in decades.

- Why record labels stopped providing tour support, and what that has meant for the generation of artists trying to develop their careers on the road.

- How UKAT works: who qualifies, what it covers, why support tours are excluded from Phase One (and when that changes), and the separate access fund for artists with disabilities, caring responsibilities or other access needs.

- The Live Nation question - how the UK's biggest promoter reports losses in its UK entity while the wider group generates billions globally through Ticketmaster and venue operations - and what it would take to bring major players fully into the levy.

- Why funding touring is also a working-class issue: every genre the UK is globally known for - grime, drum and bass, early rock and pop - came from working-class underground movements, and rising costs are pricing those voices out.

- The safety argument: as David describes, sending artists out on the road without the resources to do it properly is not just a financial issue - it is a physical safety issue. The death of Viola Beach is a reference point nobody in the industry has forgotten.

- What Roxanne would spend £500 million on, and what both guests hope and fear music will be like in 2050.

Visit drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at qobuz.com/dis.

Links

UKAT Fund - apply by 20 March 2026: thefac.org/ukatfund
Featured Artists Coalition: thefac.org
Roxanne de Bastion: roxannedebastion.com/
Los Campesinos! touring economics breakdown: https://community.drownedinsound.com/t/how-los-campesinos-lost-over-1000-playing-a-sold-out-show-in-dublin/87034
Enter Shikari / Rou Reynolds episode: https://youtu.be/gTkSAokv6UU?si=vBeWvwp7y2l78I3A

Join the DiS community: community.drownedinsound.com

DiS newsletter signup: drownedinsound.org

Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt)

What does it mean to lean in? Not to your career, not to the algorithm but to the act of making music itself?

Polly Mackey, the artist, musician, songwriter and producer behind Art School Girlfriend, nearly walked away from releasing music altogether. Instead, she built a studio in East London, completed a Master's thesis on how electronic music can feel human, and made Lean In, her third album, out now on Fiction Records. It might be the most emotionally honest thing she's made.

In this conversation, Polly and Sean talk about why she's drawn to the emotional geography between shoegaze and electronic music, the Ableton water-simulation plugins that shaped the record's sound, and what it felt like to study her own creative process while writing the songs. They also get into the bigger questions: Is the album format in crisis? Who actually benefits when music is "democratised"? And what happens to the music industry when the barrier to entry used to be £350 rent in Dalston?

Plus: Polly's memories of trying to buy a Slayer album at 10 years old, what her three records taste like (one of them tastes like tears), touring as a three-piece with her wife Marika Hackman, and a genuinely lovely answer about what she hopes music looks like in 2050.

Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis.

Links
Art School Girlfriend: artschoolgirlfriend.co.uk
Marika Hackman: marikahackman.com
Shy Radicals (film/book): Good Press
Foundation FM: Art School Girlfriend's Radio Show

Join the DiS community: http://community.drownedinsound.com

Subscribe to the DiS newsletter: http://drownedinsound.org

Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt)

Chapters

00:00:00 - Introduction and Qobuz playlist

00:02:27 - Meet Polly Mackey

00:03:50 - Soft Landing vs Lean In

00:06:30 - Growing up on nu metal in North Wales

00:09:30 - What music would taste like

00:10:54 - Why electronic music sounds like shoegaze

00:13:50 - The Slink Devices water plugin

00:18:00 - Rewilding electronic music

00:19:15 - The MA thesis: sonic objects of intimacy

00:20:10 - Digital silence and The New Analog

00:24:00 - Positive nihilism

00:27:50 - Emma's newsletter ad

00:28:34 - Is the album format in crisis?

00:33:50 - Self-producing Lean In and mixing with Riley MacIntyre

00:34:10 - Sensory overwhelm and Doing Laps

00:36:00 - Translating the record to the live stage

00:38:57 - Qobuz ad

00:40:13 - Shy Radicals, Arlo Parks and the queer bookshop

00:43:40 - £500 million: geography vs class in the music industry

00:51:30 - How to ethically support artists you love

00:52:38 - What music should look like in 2050

00:54:35 - Outro

What happens when a producer and musician working with Solange, Rosie Lowe, Loyle Carner, and Kelela burns out, and a spilled glass of water shows him the way back?

Kwes. (Kwesi Sey) has spent fifteen years at the centre of London's most boundary-pushing music, from working with Bobby Womack to the Rye Lane soundtrack. But after years of studio sessions and collaborations, he needed a reset. The catalyst came from his daughter: she knocked over a drink mid-drawing, shrugged it off, and carried on. That moment became the blueprint for his new album Kinds, made in six months of late-night flow states, half-asleep at the keyboard.

The result is a 29-minute meditation on colour, memory, and sound. Every track is named after the hues kwes. experiences through synesthesia / chromesthesia (hearing colours).

We talk about making music without overthinking, why ambient records aren't minimal, the discipline of producing for other artists versus creating your own work, and what Beach Boys albums taste like.

Sean and kwes. also discuss burnout and creative recovery, the London scene that connects Damon Albarn to Tirzah to Speech Debelle, and why London needs creative spaces with affordable accommodation. kwes. reflects on the Barbican and Tate Modern premieres for Kinds, working with visual artist Ryan Vautier, and his hope that one day we'll be able to smell sound.

If there's a thread running through it all, it's this: rest is political. And sometimes the most radical thing you can do is stop overthinking and just make.

Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis.

Edited by: tell.studio (Phil, Louisa, Owen, Matt)

 

Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.

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Links & Resources:

kwes.:

Official website: https://kwes.info

Bandcamp: https://kwesmusic.bandcamp.com

Warp Records: https://warp.net/artists/kwes/

Films & Soundtracks:

Rye Lane (dir. Raine Allen-Miller): https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001k3tb/rye-lane

Black Is Beautiful: The Kwame Brathwaite Story: https://www.londonsff.com/black-is-beautiful

Some of the artists mentioned:

Coby Sey (kwes.'s brother): https://cobysey.bandcamp.com

Elan Tamara (kwes.'s wife): https://elantamara.bandcamp.com

Loyle Carner: https://loylecarner.com

Kelela: https://www.kelela.com

Tirzah: https://tirzah.co.uk

Recorded at The Shure Experience Centre in London

Chapters:

00:00:00 - Introduction
03:00:00 - What is minimalism?
06:15:00 - Working with Solange and Kelela
10:45:00 - The spilled drink catalyst
14:30:00 - Making the record after burnout
19:00:00 - Flow state and late-night writing
22:25:00 - Newsletter ad break
25:00:00 - Barbican and Tate Modern premieres
28:30:00 - Synesthesia and colour-coded tracks
32:00:00 - Qobuz ad break
35:00:00 - Brian Eno and ambient music
40:00:00 - Inspirations: Beach Boys, Pat Metheny
47:00:00 - What does music taste like?
50:30:00 - Creative spaces and accommodation
54:00:00 - Hope for music in 2050

What does it actually mean to be a grassroots music promoter in 2026?

David Littlefair joins the Drowned in Sound Podcast to discuss the grassroots pledge he's made with Marrapalooza, the DIY festival in Newcastle's Ouseburn Valley - redirecting ad spend away from Meta, refusing to book artists based on follower counts, and putting money back into the local scene instead of offshore platforms.

We also get into the bigger picture: why 85% of Arts Council music funding goes to opera and classical music while brass bands and folk get 0.6% each, how Spotify has spent fifteen years extracting hundreds of millions from British artists, and why the grassroots levy risks being offshored by Instagram ads.

David speaks from twenty years of promoting in the North East - from £1-on-the-door pub nights in Sunderland to putting on Sam Fender's second ever gig, to building a festival with a clear political philosophy. He talks about "algorithm begging," the case for community-owned venues modelled on working men's clubs, nd what he'd do with Daniel Ek's £500 million.

The Drowned in Sound Podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz - the ethical music streaming platform for music enthusiasts. Start your free trial at drownedinsound.org/playlists. This week's playlist (Jan/Feb 2026 favourites) + Qobuz free trial https://www.drownedinsound.org/playlists + Subscribe to the DiS Newsletter https://www.drownedinsound.org/newsletter

Links:

🎪 Marrapalooza 4: Wild and Fierce and Not Bothered — June 5–7 2026, Newcastle https://marrapalooza.co.uk
📄 Youth Music — "Just The Way It Is?" report https://www.youthmusic.org.uk
📄 IPPR — State of the North (arts and culture spending) https://www.ippr.org
📗 Liz Pelly — Mood Machine (Spotify book) https://lizpelly.info
🎵 Portions For Foxes (David's promoting name) — named after the Rilo Kiley song

Credits: Hosted, engineered, edited, researched, and produced by Sean Adams.
Edited and mixed by Tell Studio.
Recorded at The Shure Experience Centre, London.
Guest: David Littlefair (Marrapalooza / Portions For Foxes).

For 25 years our publication and podcast has recommended music. We now also spark conversations and create resources to help music fans discover their collective power.

Mentioned in this episode: Marrapalooza · Portions For Foxes · Los Campesinos! · Soak · Milkweed · Lande Hekt · Jim Ghedi · Gwennifer Raymond · The Chisel · Militarie Gun · Mandrake Handshake · Sam Fender · Field Music · The Futureheads · Rilo Kiley · Caribou · Hundred Reasons · Kelly Lee Owens · PVA · Ella Harris · Gruff Rhys · Benefits · Ex Vöid · Justin Hawkins / The Darkness · Liz Pelly · Music Venue Trust · Arts Council England · PRS for Music · Help Musicians · Featured Artists Coalition · Democratic Business Alliance · Brass Band England · Qobuz · Spotify / Daniel Ek · Youth Music · Music Declares Emergency

This is a conversation about what happens when artists discover their collective power.

In May 2025, electronic artist Gazelle Twin withdrew from her Kings Place residency over the venue's decision to host an arms industry conference sponsored by Lockheed Martin. Eleven days later, after 1,200+ artists and fans signed an open letter, Kings Place cancelled the event.

Elizabeth Bernholz (Gazelle Twin) talks about that moment and so much more. The musician meets Drowned in Sound founder to discuss creating Pastoral - the Brexit-adjacent album that Drowned in Sound gave 10/10 - moving from liberal Brighton to conservative rural England, the Fever Ray performance that changed everything, and why she performed unmasked for the first time for the album Black Dog after fourteen years...

We discuss the practical tactics of organizing boycotts, how PRS Foundation funding enabled some of her most political work, balancing motherhood with touring and activism, film scoring (Nocturne, The Power) as financial stability, and why she believes Ireland's basic income for musicians could transform the industry.

From "jaded, frustrated and largely insulted" by the music industry in 2009 to successfully being part of a boycott of the arms industry in 2025 - this is a story about resilience, solidarity, and the power of saying no.

LINKS:

Gazelle Twin: Official website: https://www.gazelletwin.com
Bandcamp: https://gazelletwin.bandcamp.com
Instagram: @gazelletwin

Organizations Mentioned:
PRS Foundation: https://prsfoundation.com
Help Musicians: https://www.helpmusicians.org.uk
Music Venue Trust: https://www.musicvenuetrust.com

Drowned in Sound: Newsletter signup: https://drownedinsound.org

This week's playlist (featuring Gazelle Twin, Björk, David Bowie + Nine Inch Nails, Halsey): https://drownedinsound.org/playlists

DiS review of Pastoral (10/10): https://drownedinsound.com/releases/20441/reviews/4152045

Try Qobuz - Free 30-day trial of high-quality, artist-friendly streaming: https://drownedinsound.org/playlists (includes Qobuz free trial link)

CREDITS:

Host: Sean Adams (Drowned in Sound founder)
Guest: Gazelle Twin (Elizabeth Bernholz)
Recorded at: The Shure Experience Centre, London
Mixed & Edited by: TELL Studios
Presented in partnership with: Qobuz - the ethical music streaming platform

For 25 years, Drowned in Sound has recommended music. We now also spark conversations and create resources to help music fans discover their collective power.

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube Newsletter signup: https://drownedinsound.org Instagram: @drownedinsound Playlist: https://drownedinsound.org/playlists

CHAPTERS:

00:00 - Introduction: Do Boycotts Actually Work?
03:48 - Pastoral and Excavating English Identity After Brexit
07:27 - Soundtracking National Horror
11:15 - The Fever Ray Epiphany: Costume as Liberation
14:30 - PRS Foundation Funding and DIY Sustainability
19:00 - Kings Place Boycott: How It Worked
23:45 - Advice for Artists Taking Stands
27:30 - Somerset House Residency and Continuing the Work
32:15 - [QOBUZ AD]
35:20 - Black Dog: Performing Unmasked for the First Time
38:45 - Film Scoring as Financial Stability
42:00 - Music as Therapy and Processing
44:30 - Motherhood, Touring, and Sustainability
47:15 - Ireland's Basic Income for Musicians
49:40 - £500 Million Question: Fixing the Music Industry
53:00 - Outro: The Power of Collective Action

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Gazelle Twin (Elizabeth Bernholz), Fever Ray, MF DOOM, Nigel Farage, Daniel Ek, Scott Walker, Björk, Halsey, David Bowie, Nine Inch Nails, PRS Foundation, Kings Place, Lockheed Martin, Somerset House, Drowned in Sound, The Quietus, Ireland, Brighton, East Midlands. Film Scores: Nocturne (2020) The Power (2021, with Max de Wardener)