Fire Science Show

• 222 - Integrating WUI risk management and fire safety engineering with Pascale Vacca

  In this episode we try to demonstrate another step in integrating fire engineering into WUI risk management, and vice versa. These two areas together form some sort of fire engineering method, which I strongly believe will be an important part of our profession in the future. Today I got to sit down with Dr. Pascale Vacca from UPC to unpack a practical, end-to-end framework for wildland–urban interface risk that engineers can use today, which she has shared in her keynote at the ESFSS Conference in Ljubljana earlier this year. From mapping hazard, exposure, and vulnerability across scales to chaining wildfire spread outputs into building-focused simulations, we show how careful modeling turns uncertainty into a plan communities can fund and maintain.We begin with risk assessment that respects terrain, fuels, and construction typologies, then translate FARSITE’s rate of spread and fireline intensity into FDS boundary conditions to test real weaknesses—like heat flux and breakage in large glazed facades. The case study in Barcelona grounds it all: what happens when wind pushes a fast front toward a community center, and which retrofits move the needle? Noncombustible shutters, smarter venting, and defensible spacing emerge as high-ROI fixes, while fuel breaks and fuel treatments reduce intensity so crews can act. Along the way, we tackle data resolution, moisture, and weather selection—how to choose between worst case and representative scenarios and why that choice matters for policy and budgets.Preparedness and recovery complete the cycle. Annual maintenance keeps gains from eroding as vegetation regrows; community preparedness days build habits and trust; and a homeowner app scores parcel risk to make decisions concrete. On the response side, precomputed scenarios and quick wildfire modeling inform shelter-in-place versus evacuation, aligning engineering insight with operational realities. We also confront limits: validation gaps, ember exposure, and the fact that risk is never zero. But the path forward is clear—interdisciplinary planning, better data sharing after fires, and education to bring more engineers into WUI work.----The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

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• 221 - Fire experiments at the ISS (SoFIE-MIST) with Michael Gollner

  Fire doesn’t play by Earth’s rules once you leave gravity behind. In this deep dive with Professor Michael Gollner, we unpack what the recent experiments at the ISS called SoFIE-MIST taught us about solid fuel flammability in microgravity—how tiny ventilation, oxygen levels, and pressure shifts determine whether a flame spreads, stalls, or vanishes. The details are surprising: blue “bubble” flames, two distinct extinction points, and sustained burning at oxygen levels that would fail to ignite on Earth.We walk through the entire setup: PMMA rods chosen for clean, uniform burning; a compact wind tunnel inside the ISS hardware; ceramic heaters delivering 1–3 kW/m² to probe incipient behavior; and a control strategy that often lets the flame’s own oxygen consumption carry the chamber gently to extinction. Along the way, you’ll hear how constraints drive design—why rods beat flats, why halogen lamps didn’t fly, how crew time is minimized with robotic runs—and how data is captured without weighing anything. Opposed-flow flame spread becomes a window into fundamentals: radiative preheating, thermal thickness, and the delicate balance between convective loss and feedback when buoyancy is gone.The implications stretch to future habitats and vehicles. As spaceflight moves toward longer missions and more commercial operators, safety will hinge on accurate flammability limits under low ventilation and non-Earth atmospheres. We connect the dots to normoxic choices, partial‑g research on the Moon and Mars, and the growing need for space fire engineering that’s grounded in real data. If you care about spacecraft safety, materials selection, and the science behind early fire detection, this conversation is right for you.If you want to learn more, do it here:a brilliant article at the Berkeley websiteNASA Glenn website about the SoFIE programmeEpisode 75 with David Urban on spacecraft fire safetyQA session 5 - brainstorming martian habitat fire safetyCover image credit: NASA, Igniting a 12.7 mm sample at 21% oxygen under 100 kPa ambient pressure in microgravity. From article https://engineering.berkeley.edu/news/2024/12/nasa-funded-project-offers-new-insights-into-fire-behavior-in-space/----The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

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• 220 - Test vs experiment with David Morrisset

  In this episode we dive into the ap between standardized tests and experiments, trying to figure out (a) is there a difference and (b) if there is, could not understanding the difference quietly erode safety. With guest David Morrisset (Queensland University), we unpack furnace ratings that read like time but aren’t, cladding classifications that were never meant for façades, and the infamous bird-strike test that shows how any standard bakes in choices and consequences. The throughline: context rules everything.We talk plainly about what tests actually deliver—repeatability, reproducibility, and comparability under fixed boundary conditions—and why that’s powerful but limited. Then we pivot to experiments: how to define a clear question, choose boundary conditions that matter, use standard apparatus for non-standard insights, and document deviations without pretending they’re compliant. We share  stories from timber in furnaces to car park fires and design curves, showing when consistency beats a shaky chase for “realistic,” and when exploratory burns are the fastest way to find the unknowns that really drive risk.If you’ve ever tried to drop a cone calorimeter value into a performance model, equated furnace minutes to evacuation time, or treated a single burn as gospel, this conversation will help you do this safely and prevent you from falling into some well known caveats. You’ll leave with practical heuristics for reading test data without overreach, structuring experiments that answer narrow questions well, and communicating uncertainty so decision-makers understand what the numbers can and cannot promise.Essential reading after this episode:When chick hits the fan paperThe rise of Euroclass, A. Law et al.The rise and rise of fire resistance, A. Law et al.----The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

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• 219 - Giving back with the SFPE Foundation - with Leslie Marshall

  In this episode, we give focus to the SFPE Foundation – a catalyst transforming how fire engineering research is funded, conducted, and shared globally. In this conversation with Leslie Marshall, Interim Executive Director of the SFPE Foundation, we discover how a relatively small organization has distributed over $1.2 million in grants, scholarships, and research funding since 2021. While the Foundation has existed since 1979, its recent expansion with dedicated staff has accelerated its impact across the fire engineering community worldwide.Leslie reveals the Foundation's unique position in the fire safety ecosystem – while SFPE maintains the gold standard for current practice, the Foundation focuses on emerging topics and future challenges. This forward-looking approach has funded groundbreaking work, such as, in my opinion, landmark David Morissette's research on furniture fire variability, which began with a modest $5,000 student grant but yielded findings that challenge fundamental assumptions in fire modeling.The conversation explores the Foundation's flagship Grand Challenges Initiative, a 10-year collaborative effort addressing four critical areas: energy and infrastructure, resilience and sustainability, climate change, and digitalization/AI/cybersecurity. With over 40 industry and academic partners worldwide, this initiative exemplifies how bringing diverse perspectives together can tackle complex problems that no single entity could solve alone.For researchers, students, and professionals looking to give back to the fire safety community, Leslie outlines multiple pathways for involvement – from financial contributions to volunteering on advisory panels or working groups. The Foundation's commitment to open access ensures all research findings are freely available, maximizing their impact across the field.You can learn more about the foundation on its website here.Additional resources can be found here:The 2026 WUI Summit: https://www.sfpe.org/2026wuisummit/homeThe WUI Handbook: https://www.sfpe.org/wuihandbook/homeGrand Challenges Initiative website: https://www.sfpe.org/gci/home----The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

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• 218 - Fire decay and cooling phases with Andrea Lucherini

  What happens when the flames die down? It's a question rarely addressed in fire engineering, yet the decay and cooling phases of fires can be more dangerous than peak fire conditions. In this deep-dive conversation with Dr. Andrea Lucherini from Frisbee at ZAG in Slovenia, we uncover why these overlooked phases matter profoundly for structural safety.Most engineers focus on protecting structures during the fully developed fire phase, but as Dr. Lucherini reveals, catastrophic failures can actually occur during cooling. We discuss a tragic case where seven firefighters died when a concrete structure collapsed, not during the fire's peak, but while they were extinguishing what appeared to be a dying fire. This sobering reality highlights how current testing methods fail to capture real-world risks—standard fire curves never decrease, creating a dangerous blind spot in our understanding.The physics of cooling creates unique challenges for different building materials. Reinforced concrete might reach maximum temperatures in the steel reinforcement during decay rather than during peak fire. Steel structures face destructive tensile forces during contraction that can exceed the compressive forces experienced during heating. Mass timber presents particularly complex behaviour that may never truly enter a cooling phase without proper design considerations.Perhaps most fascinating is how thermal boundary conditions transform as fires decay. When dense smoke thins, radiation patterns change dramatically, creating heat transfer scenarios that standard models fail to capture. These insights aren't just academic—they're essential for performance-based engineering approaches that prioritise realistic structural behaviour throughout a fire's entire timeline.Andrea was kind enough to share these papers with me:- Defining the fire decay and the cooling phase of post-flashover compartment fires: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.firesaf.2023.103965- ⁠Thermal characterisation of the cooling phase of post-flashover compartment fires: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijthermalsci.2024.108933- ⁠More information about FRISSBE project and team: https://www.frissbe.eu/ And I can shamelessly plug one of our own: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/fam.2735Cover image from experiments with Danny Hopkin that we have discussed here: https://www.firescienceshow.com/172-lessons-from-mass-timber-experiments-with-danny-hopkin/----The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

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