Zora Founder on the Plan to Pay Creators | Internet Explorers Ep. 78 (LIVE!)
If content "wants to be free", how can creators get paid? In this special edition live interview, we sit down with Jacob Horne, cofounder of Zora, for a candid conversation on the company’s evolving vision—and what they got wrong early on. Jacob opens up about Zora’s shift from marketplace to protocol, why onchain media matters more than ever, and how consumer apps in crypto have been missing the point. If you’ve ever wondered what Zora actually is or where it’s going next, this is the episode to hear it from the source. Along the way: protocol tradeoffs, the fragility of NFT incentives, and why Zora is now all-in on supporting the onchain internet through composable creation tools. It’s a peek behind the curtain of one of crypto’s most culturally influential companies. This episode unpacks Why Zora is no longer a marketplace company How protocol thinking changed their product strategy The tension between creator and collector incentives What “onchain media” really means to Jacob The risks of speculative activity dominating apps Why Zora is focused on creative tooling How Zora thinks about interoperability A breakdown of Zora’s current app ecosystem What success looks like for a protocol Why this is a 20-year project Chapters: 00:00 — Intro 01:05 — Jacob joins the stage 03:02 — Zora is not a marketplace 07:33 — What went wrong in 2021 10:56 — Owning the protocol 13:31 — Measuring success 17:24 — Creators vs speculators 21:44 — Zora’s real product 26:07 — What it means to be onchain 30:30 — Long-term vision 34:53 — Future of Zora apps 39:27 — The internet is half-finished 44:10 — Open protocols to black boxes 49:15 — What meme coins unlock 53:38 — Why the DAO model broke 57:20 — Building for liquidity, not hype 01:00:42 — UX is the real innovation 01:04:17 — How Zora builds for decades 01:07:39 — Farcon week & final thoughts Internet Explorers is a weekly rundown show where extremely online individuals broadly explore (romanticize, even) new consumer Internet experiences. Join us live on Twitter/X, Fridays 10am PT / 1pm ET. Seed Club Twitter: https://x.com/seedclubhq Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/internet-explorers/id1756599282 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6iJk3xZoij7pVhlNbTP9qS?si=4cda0ac044dc4c6a Pods.media: https://pods.media/internet-explorers
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1:08:58
How Valuable Are Your Memories? (feat. RAC) | Internet Explorers Ep. 77
$ZORA is here, memecoins are changing, CT is mad—but what does it all mean? This episode unpacks Zora's recent token launch, explores the burdens of governance, and dives deep into how "just-for-fun" tokens might be redefining crypto markets, if not the very concept of "value." Later, special guest RAC (André Allen Anjos) joins to discuss Memory Protocol, the ambitious new identity and data-sharing layer he’s co-founded, which promises to revolutionize how we manage and monetize our digital identities—starting with the music industry. This episode unpacks: $ZORA token launch and market reactions The difference between governance and memecoins Brands taking their identities "public" through tokens Exploring tokenized information markets with Politiswap RAC’s deep dive into Memory Protocol Why data portability matters for creators and users The intersection of identity, markets, and crypto incentives How Fungi’s AI bot optimizes DeFi yield Launching apps and social dynamics onchain Future of decentralized identity and monetization Chapters: 00:00 — Intro: Discussing incentives for app collaboration 05:26 — Zora token launch and airdrop reactions 10:09 — Memory Protocol: Building data sharing infrastructure 16:20 — Factory fm: A Letterboxd for music 22:27 — Incentivizing data sharing between applications 28:30 — Farcon event announcement and Kamigotchi launch 34:17 — Oscillator: Building products for music industry 40:25 — Memory Protocol: Connecting apps and reducing friction 46:20 — Bootstrapping networks and proving use cases 55:34 — Fungi: AI-powered DeFi yield optimization agent 1:00:00 — Closing thoughts and upcoming content -- Internet Explorers is a weekly rundown show where extremely online individuals broadly explore (romanticize, even) new consumer Internet experiences. Join us live on Twitter/X, Fridays 10am PT / 1pm ET. Seed Club Twitter: https://x.com/seedclubhq Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/internet-explorers/id1756599282 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6iJk3xZoij7pVhlNbTP9qS?si=4cda0ac044dc4c6a Pods.media: https://pods.media/internet-explorers
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1:02:08
This Founder's App Was Going Nowhere. Now It's #1 | Internet Explorers Ep. 76
Nick Confrey’s first app was all promise, no traction—until one bold pivot changed everything. This week on Internet Explorers, the crew starts with the messy fallout from Base’s content coin launch—an experiment in onchain media that spiraled into backlash, infighting, and meme coin chaos. But the real story comes in the second half, when Nick joins the show to share how he turned a floundering generalized social platform into Tome—a viral BookTok hit that hit #1 in the App Store’s books category. Nick walks us through his journey from building for “everyone” to focusing on one deeply passionate community. Along the way, he breaks down why Tome rejects ad-based business models, how it’s building creator-first monetization, and what crypto-native lessons helped shape a product for people who don’t care about crypto at all. If you’ve ever wondered how to pivot toward product-market fit—or how to go viral without selling out—this episode is for you. This episode unpacks: Why Base’s content coin launch blew up on Crypto Twitter The cultural clash between meme coins and new creator tools How one mechanism flaw tanked Base’s experiment Why Rodeo’s TikTok virality didn’t translate into growth Nick’s early app failure and what wasn’t working How focusing on BookTok turned Tome into a breakout success The philosophy behind Tome’s anti-ad, user-supported model How Tome leverages intrinsic motivation over speculation What crypto can learn from Tome’s mainstream product strategy Why the best crypto apps might never mention crypto at all Chapters: 00:27 — Jess Returns From Vacation 01:14 — Twitter Meltdown Recap 03:44 — Base Launches Content Coin 07:06 — Mechanism Fail & Blowback 08:55 — Cynicism Killing Innovation 13:55 — What Meme Coins Reveal 20:41 — Outro: Base Drama Ends 21:44 — Rodeo’s Viral Flop 25:52 — Incentives vs. Organic Behavior 29:07 — Guest Intro: Nick Confrey 30:52 — The Pivot to BookTok 36:23 — How Tome Went Viral 40:29 — Monetizing Without Ads 43:01 — Incentives for Creativity 46:41 — Mini Apps & Remix Culture 49:34 — Growing Niche to Platform 54:35 — Tome’s Puzzle Launch 57:22 — Final Thoughts & Shoutouts 58:47 — Cozy Social, Big Lessons 01:02:29 — Crypto Growth Beyond Crypto 01:05:33 — Closing Vibes Internet Explorers is a weekly rundown show where extremely online individuals broadly explore (romanticize, even) new consumer Internet experiences. Join us live on Twitter/X, Fridays 10am PT / 1pm ET. Seed Club Twitter: https://x.com/seedclubhq Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/internet-explorers/id1756599282 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6iJk3xZoij7pVhlNbTP9qS?si=4cda0ac044dc4c6a Pods.media: https://pods.media/internet-explorers
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1:06:20
The Harsh Reality of Onchain Games | Internet Explorers Ep. 75
What if a game you built today could still be played a thousand years from now? Onchain gaming is one of the hardest bets in crypto — and Kamigotchi is taking a radically different path to survive. Lethe joins to break down why most projects fail, and how building the simplest possible game could create a world that lasts for centuries. Later, Jaimin from Beans joins to share how they’re turning Internet speculation into a daily game of discovery. Plus: the future of three-person unicorns, AI-native teams, tokenized subforums, and how Plastic Labs could reshape memory and personalization for AI apps. This episode unpacks: How Plastic Labs is leveling the AI playing field with user memory tech Why AI-native startups are scaling massive impact with tiny teams How tokenized subforums like Subs could reinvent online communities The case for three-person unicorns in the AI era Kamigotchi’s vision: a decentralized MMORPG that lasts for centuries Technical hurdles in building fully onchain games today Why Celestia and Initia were chosen to launch yominet Beans’ launch strategy: daily token drops tied to internet sites How Beans plans to rival algorithmic content feeds Lessons from shipping speculative crypto apps in today’s market Chapters: 00:19 — Internet Explorers Kicks Off: Topics Preview 02:33 — Plastic Labs $5.35M Raise and AI Personalization 06:04 — Tokenized Forums: Exploring Subs.Fun 10:39 — The Rise of Three-Person Unicorns 17:22 — Lethe Joins: Kamigotchi’s Origins and Vision 21:55 — Why Building Onchain Games Is Brutally Hard 23:52 — Designing Kamigotchi: Simplicity or Death 28:28 — Launching on Initia and Celestia 32:12 — Building a Game Studio for the Long Term 36:35 — Jaimin Joins: Beans and Speculating on Internet Attention 43:05 — Inside the Beans Token Launch Mechanism 47:04 — The Bigger Vision: Beans as a New Social Layer 55:36 — Building in Solana vs EVM 59:08 — Farcaster Miniapp Spotlight Announcement 1:01:15 — Closing Thoughts and Sign-Off Internet Explorers is a weekly rundown show where extremely online individuals broadly explore (romanticize, even) new consumer Internet experiences. Join us live on Twitter/X, Fridays 10am PT / 1pm ET. Seed Club Twitter: https://x.com/seedclubhq Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/internet-explorers/id1756599282 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6iJk3xZoij7pVhlNbTP9qS?si=4cda0ac044dc4c6a Pods.media: https://pods.media/internet-explorers
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1:01:48
Most Startups Misunderstand Incentives feat. Joseph Al-Chami | Internet Explorers Ep. 74
The future of crypto might not be bots, bulls**t, and broken incentives — but first, we have some serious receipts to go through. This week we are joined by researcher Joseph Al-Chami for a wide-ranging dive into the biggest consumer crypto stories of the week — and an honest reckoning with how points systems, appcoins, agentic investors, and open social graphs are actually playing out. From Circle’s IPO drama to AI SEO strategies, we’re connecting the dots on what’s really happening across consumer crypto, AI, and internet culture. We kick off with a quickfire rundown of Appcoins, AI discoverability, and the death spiral of poorly launched tokens, before moving into a deep, revealing conversation with Joseph about the hidden dangers behind points-based growth strategies — and why blind copying Duolingo-style gamification just doesn’t work for crypto projects. This episode unpacks: Ohara’s new Appcoin model and the future of vibe coding AI SEO tactics and why discoverability is about to change forever Why launching a token will not save you The rise and potential fall of Circle’s stablecoin empire The launch of LensChain and the mini-app revolution on Farcaster How agentic investors are creating novelty arbitrage (for now) Open social graphs vs. corporate controlled platforms Why vanity metrics are destroying crypto ecosystems A real breakdown of why “points and quests” mostly attract bots How to build loyalty systems that actually work Chapters: 0:00 — Intro and a Brand New Home 00:39 — Live Show Chaos and Vibe Check 01:50 — Market Sentiment and Real Builders 03:09 — Introducing Joseph Al-Chami and Topics 04:53 — Appcoins, Vibe Coding, and Token Models 08:11 — AI SEO and Discoverability Shifts 12:55 — Why Launching Tokens Can Fail 16:11 — Circle’s IPO Drama and Fallout 19:38 — LensChain, Open Social, and Mini-Apps 24:16 — Farcaster Airdrops and Notification Burnout 26:51 — Rise of Agentic Investors and Novelty 29:09 — “It’s All Base’s Fault” Twitter Meltdown 30:14 — Credible Neutrality and Blockchain Trust 32:59 — Joseph’s Research on Points Farming 39:48 — How to Build Real Loyalty Internet Explorers is a weekly rundown show where extremely online individuals broadly explore (romanticize, even) new consumer Internet experiences. Join us live on Twitter/X, Fridays 10am PT / 1pm ET. Seed Club Twitter: https://x.com/seedclubhq Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/internet-explorers/id1756599282 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6iJk3xZoij7pVhlNbTP9qS?si=4cda0ac044dc4c6a Pods.media: https://pods.media/internet-explorers
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