Unsung Podcast

• The Velvet Sundown: The AI Band Controversy Explained - What Happened and What's Next - 370

  You may have seen the AI band The Velvet Sundown pop up in the news recently and thought "well, that's weird". Long-time fans of the pod probably also thought "when are they going to do an episode on that?" Well, here it is! The Velvet Sundown - What Actually Happened? If you've been following us for a while you'll know that every 18 months or so we seem to return to broader discussions about where music and technology intersect. It began with an episode on Threatin (if you remember who Threatin is, well done) and how one man's quest for fame led to him faking a massive fanbase. A quest that ended with him playing to empty rooms across the UK, and saw him trying to retcon it into some kind of art hoax. Later, we discussed what a possible future using AI music might look like in March 2019, looking at the early attempts to create artificial intelligence music and how the data given to streaming platforms could very well be used to create music. An episode that is now quite prescient in retrospect. Mark was actually quite optimistic that a Velvet Sundown-esque AI band scenario would not come to pass. How naïve... And then in October 2023 we took a two episode deep dive into Spotify playlist manipulation, and how it began way back in the early days of radio with payola. Spotify algorithm manipulation plays a huge role in how the person/entity behind The Velvet Sundown was able to gain so much traction so quickly - reaching 1.1 million plays and potentially earning £35,000+ annually. AI Music - The Bigger Picture This week's episode continues this tradition. We cover some old ground in places (the history of AI music and playlist manipulation), but for the vast majority of the episode we break new ground. We look at the hard numbers around what this synthetic music "artist" stands to make, examine other AI-generated bands like Anna Indiana, The Devil Inside, and Aventhis, ponder both the inventive and interesting uses of artificial intelligence in music as well as the more troubling ones, and look at some possible futures in the wake of all this AI band controversy. You can also watch this episode on YouTube, if that's your thing. Link is here: https://youtu.be/04mYK3G4x5k If you've enjoyed this episode, do consider subscribing to our Patreon at www.patreon.com/unsungpod Highlights: 00:00 Introduction to The Velvet Sundown 00:36 AI in Music: From Skynet to Rei Toei 01:35 The Rise of The Velvet Sundown 03:05 AI Bands and Their Impact 07:33 History of AI in Music 17:18 Modern AI Music Innovations 33:31 The Future of AI in Music 36:10 Financial Implications of AI Bands 42:05 The Impact of AI on Job Replacement 43:43 The Uncanny Valley in AI Music 45:07 Genres and AI's Ability to Mimic Them 49:57 AI's Influence on Modern Music Production 55:21 The Rise of AI in Country Music 59:24 The Future of AI in the Music Industry 01:07:19 Ethical and Regulatory Concerns 01:21:34 Concluding Thoughts on AI in Music

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• Why Do US Maple Sound Like That? w/ Ferruccio Quercetti from CUT - 369

  This week we're talking about US Maple. Which is a bit like saying we're talking about having your teeth drilled without anaesthetic. The Chicago quartet spent twelve years making music that deliberately disappointed every expectation you might have about rock music. They took guitars, drums, and vocals and somehow made them sound like they were arguing with each other in a language nobody understood. It was brilliant. It was infuriating. It was absolutely necessary. This is the final part of our Anti Rock trilogy, where we've been exploring bands that knew the rules of rock music inside out and chose to break every single one of them. US Maple didn't just break the rules though. They took the rulebook, fed it through a modified guitar with quarter tone frets, and sang over it like a demented lounge singer having a breakdown. We get into their impossible discography, their custom instruments that were designed to sound worse, their legendary tour with Pavement where they got pelted with rubbish nightly, and that infamous Oklahoma City incident involving Xanax and a cockroach. We also try to answer the eternal question: why would anyone voluntarily listen to this? Fair warning: this episode might make you feel slightly seasick. That's entirely by design. Featuring Ferruccio Quercetti from the brilliant Italian band Cut, who knows more about post punk and experimental music than literally anyone we know. Highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 00:58 Meet the Hosts and Anti-Rock Series Recap 05:25 Defining Anti-Rock vs. Post-Rock - The Core Question 18:51 Chicago's Noise Rock Scene and US Maple's Origins 20:32 The Band Formation and Todd Riman's Hybrid Guitar 24:00 "Snagglepuss on a Bender" - Early Recording Stories 31:47 The Commitment to Anti-Rock Philosophy 38:00 The Legendary Oklahoma City Incident 44:00 Shorty: The Band That Spawned US Maple 49:00 Album Deep Dive: Long Hair in Three Stages 59:08 Sang Fat Editor and Quarter-Tone Guitar Experiments 01:08:00 Talker and Working with Michael Gira 01:17:00 Purple on Time - The "Mainstream" Album 01:22:13 Al Johnson's Anti-Rock Manifesto 01:24:46 Why US Maple is "Weirdly Soothing" 01:29:00 Mark's Virgin Takeaway on the Band 01:33:54 Conclusion and Farewell

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• No Wave: The Nihilistic New York Movement That Influenced 40 Years of Music - 368

  This week we're diving headfirst into the gloriously pretentious world of No Wave - the three-year New York art scene that somehow managed to influence everything that followed. Chris has somehow convinced Mark and our resident Italian punk professor Ferro to explore how a bunch of art school dropouts in a financially bankrupt New York accidentally created one of music's most important movements. We start with New York City in 1978: a proper shithole where you'd genuinely risk your life getting a taxi to Brooklyn, Times Square was basically a war zone, and the city had literally gone bankrupt. Perfect conditions, as it turns out, for a load of bohemian kids to move in, pay bugger all rent, and start making the most deliberately difficult music imaginable. Enter Brian Eno, who's meant to be in New York producing Talking Heads like a normal person, but instead wanders into some art space gig and discovers bands like Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, DNA, Mars, and The Contortions doing something completely mental. Being Brian Eno, he obviously decides to document the whole thing, creating the legendary "No New York" compilation that basically put the entire movement on the map. We get properly stuck into the key figures: Lydia Lunch being an absolute force of nature in Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, James Chance slapping music critics (literally - he assaulted Robert Christgau), and the various weirdos who decided that what punk really needed was to be even more antagonistic to its audience. Ferro brings his encyclopaedic knowledge of the European connections, particularly the parallels between New York's urban decay and Berlin's post-war experimental scene. We explore how Einstürzende Neubauten were literally destroying studio floors with sledgehammers whilst Throbbing Gristle were essentially inventing industrial music in their Yorkshire squat. The conversation sprawls magnificently through Swans' absolutely punishing early albums, the way Sonic Youth emerged from this scene, and how bands like Bush Tetras and Rat at Rat R kept the torch burning. We also dive into some proper tangents about Madonna apparently being in an art punk band with future Swans members (mental) and how this whole movement influenced everything from the Load Records noise rock scene to modern post-metal. This is part two of our anti-rock trilogy. Last week we tackled the prehistory from musique concrète to Captain Beefheart, and next week we'll finally get to US Maple and try to explain why anyone would voluntarily subject themselves to their particular brand of musical torture. Highlights 00:00 Introduction to No Wave and Brian Eno's Influence 00:33 Welcome to the Podcast 01:04 Recap of Previous Episode 02:14 The Rise of No Wave in Late 1970s New York 02:46 Sociological Context of 1970s New York 02:59 Key Figures and Bands in No Wave 03:43 The No New York Compilation Album 07:59 Brian Eno's Role and Impact 11:02 Musical Influence and Legacy of No Wave 20:04 James Chance and The Contortions 22:44 Sonic Youth and Swans: Post No Wave Evolution 25:51 The Influence of Swans on Post-Metal 27:25 Exploring Lesser-Known Bands: Rat at Rat R and Bush Tetras 28:48 The Impact of Foetus and Throbbing Gristle 35:13 Berlin's No Wave Movement and Einstürzende Neubauten 41:08 The Legacy of No Wave in Chicago and Beyond 45:03 Anti-Rock Bands and Their Influence 48:38 Concluding Thoughts and Teasers for Next Episode

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• Anti-Rock: When Musicians Deliberately Break the Rules w/ Ferruccio Quercetti - 367

  This week we're tackling the wonderfully niche concept of anti-rock. Or more specifically, we're trying to work out what the hell it actually is, why Google doesn't seem to know either, and how it connects to everything from Frank Zappa taking the piss out of The Beatles to bands who are so talented they deliberately make themselves sound rubbish. Chris has dragged poor Mark and our resident punk professor Ferro down a rabbit hole that starts with French composers banging bits of concrete in the 1940s and somehow ends up at US Maple, a band that sounds like they're actively trying to annoy you. Along the way we encounter Captain Beefheart's deliberately mental Trout Mask Replica, The Residents being mysterious weirdos in eyeball masks, and Suicide essentially inventing electronic music with what amounts to a homemade fuzz box. We get properly stuck into the prehistory of experimental music, from Pierre Schaeffer's musique concrète through to the New York art scene of the 1970s. Our main thesis is that anti-rock isn't just noise for the sake of it - it's what happens when genuinely skilled musicians decide to systematically tear apart rock conventions from the inside. Think of it as punk's more cerebral, art school cousin who's read too much Derrida. This is part one of three. Next week we'll tackle the No Wave explosion in late 70s New York, and part three will finally explain why US Maple exist and why anyone would voluntarily listen to them. We also touch on Glenn Branca's guitar symphonies, Pere Ubu's Cleveland weirdness, and try to work out why some of the most influential experimental music came from artists who could absolutely play it straight if they wanted to. Spoiler: they definitely didn't want to. Timestamps: Episode Highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Initial Banter 00:51 Meet the Guest: Ferro (Not Pharaoh) 01:47 Ferro's Musical Journey and PhD in Punk 04:16 What the Hell Is Anti-Rock? 09:37 French Blokes Banging Concrete: The Birth of Musique Concrète 22:01 When Classical Composers Lost Their Minds 27:48 Moondog: The Homeless Viking of Sixth Avenue 28:25 How American Music Got Properly Weird 29:15 Snake Time Rhythms and Native American Influences 30:04 From Experimental Composers to Rock Subversion 30:36 Captain Beefheart's Deliberately Mental Masterpiece 35:05 Red Crayola: Texan Psychedelic Deconstructionists 40:42 The Residents: Eyeball Masks and Musical Terrorism 47:09 Suicide: Two Blokes and a Homemade Fuzz Box 52:06 Pere Ubu: Cleveland's Contribution to Musical Chaos 55:38 Setting Up the No Wave Explosion

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• Is Emma Ruth Rundle Gothic Rock? - 366

  This week we're diving into the wonderfully gloomy world of Emma Ruth Rundle. Or more specifically, we're having a bit of a discussion whether she's actually goth or not, what goth even means, and how it may be broader than some think. Musically, Chris thinks most of her catalogue is a bit pants but she has artistic integreity. Mark reckons she's brilliant. Emma Ruth Rundle has spent her career shape-shifting between projects like some sort of musical chameleon with commitment issues. From her early folk-gaze days with The Nocturnes to her brief stint with post-rock titans Red Sparrows. From the overlooked Marriages project to her increasingly experimental solo work. She's never been one to stay in her lane. The question is: does all this reinvention actually work, or is it just restless artist syndrome? We get deep into the weeds of her entire discography. Our main focus is 2016's "Marked for Death", which Mark insists is her masterpiece and Chris... well, Chris has opinions. We also tackle the thorny question of what actually constitutes "goth" in 2025. Spoiler: it's probably not what you think. Plus we discuss her genuinely unnerving experimental albums. And try to work out why Sargent House thought it was a good idea to send a recovering alcoholic to record alone in the desert. With unlimited booze. Episode Highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Studio Setup at Variety Bar 05:21 The Great Goth Debate Begins 18:45 Emma Ruth Rundle's Project History 32:48 Electric Guitar One: Ambient Experiments 39:00 Some Heavy Ocean: The Proper Debut 44:14 On Dark Horses: Chris's Least Favourite 52:26 The Thou Collaboration: Overrated or Underrated? 59:48 Engine of Hell: Stripped Back and Boring? 1:04:06 Electric Guitar Two: Pure Horror Movie Soundtrack 1:13:28 Marked for Death: The Desert Sessions 1:26:00 Final Verdicts and Wrap-Up

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