Life with Fire

In the second episode of our Latino Forestry Workforce series, guest host Gaby Eseverri speaks with Manuel Machado, who is the Natural Resource Workforce Program Coordinator for the Oregon State University Extension Program. This episode was made possible with support from Rivershed SPC, and we are immensely grateful for their help in making this series happen. 

Manuel works with community-based organizations across the Pacific Northwest to develop bilingual learner-centric educational materials for H-2B and immigrant forestry sector workers, while developing programming that raises awareness of the labor-intensive forest workforce. His work aims to make this work safer and more equitable, particularly through engagement with the Latine forestry workforce in Oregon.

Gaby Eseverri is a journalist based in Missoula, Montana, and originally from Miami. In addition to print journalism, she also helps produce Glacier National Park's Headwaters Podcast, which we highly recommend you check out. 

In this episode, Gaby and Manuel spoke about the Latine forestry workforce in the Pacific Northwest, including the workforce's history, how H-2B and immigrant status contributes to a culture of exploitation rooted in a fear of deportation, as well as the nature of forestry and fire work. Gaby and Manuel also discuss the physical, economic and systemic risks faced by this workforce, and how the model and increasing demand for forest resilience work—which includes post-fire restoration, thinning/wildfire risk reduction, and other essential forestry tasks—relies heavily on often underpaid and easily-exploited H-2B and immigrant workers. 

Please note that we will be releasing a third and final episode on this topic in a few days. This final episode—also hosted by Gaby with guest Manuel— will be published in Spanish, and will focus more on the resources, training and educational materials Manuel has created and made available for the Latine workforce on Oregon and beyond. 

Another note: This episode was recorded in November 2025, just a few months after the incident in Washington State when two wildland firefighters were detained by Border Patrol on an active wildfire. More information about this incident can be found at the links below. 

https://utahnewsdispatch.com/2025/08/30/immigration-raid-at-washington-blaze-stokes-fear-in-wildfire-crews-nationwide/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-agents-arrest-fire-crew-members-washington-wildfire-rcna227797

 

A few highlights from the conversation (full transcript can be found here): 

"So a lot of the work that the Latine workforce is involved in what land management agencies refer to as forestry services. So this includes everything from planting work, hazardous fuels reduction work, tree thinning, forest restoration, pesticide application. Also, increasingly they're doing more work in fire suppression. So working on the fire line, much of that labor intensive work."

"Many of these contractors are based in Southern Oregon, and although they're based here in Medford, in the Rogue Valley, and they travel all over the Pacific Northwest and the US, the workers themselves are brought primarily from Mexico and increasingly from Guatemala and Central America as h-2b visa workers. So the amount of h-2b visa workers is increasing."

"The way the forest service handles contracting often awards the lowest bidder, and although this does ensure a lower price per acre, often means that the workers don't get paid as much as I believe they deserve."

"With undocumented workers, you know there's that added layer of vulnerability, because they face deportation, and although they can change employers because they have specified documents which allow them that flexibility to change employers, if the employer, at any time, finds out that they are documented, they face that added risk of using that as a threat against them. Given the policies that we're seeing, there's likely to be an increase in labor violations and just less enforcement due to these policies we're seeing under the Trump administration."

"It's really just an entire system that's turned on them at a time when I think their work so important, right? They are literally the ones planting trees after fire, or the ones who are fighting fire, the ones who are implementing those treatments that reduce fire risk and restore our forests."

"I think a good example (of something actionable) could be for firefighters. We often hear them advocating for better pay and working conditions…but it's important for them to understand that, you know, if an increasing portion of the firefighting workforce is reliant on h-2b visa workers that don't have the same rights, well, then what can they do to build solidarity with those H-2b visa workers? A rising tide will lift all boats, so they have to really consider all of these different segments of the workforce if they want to be more effective at actively bargaining for those working conditions and better pay."

"So I always ask the workers themselves, what's something that you would like the general public or policymakers or decision makers to know? What would you tell them, if you had the opportunity to speak with them? The most common responses that I've gotten is that they just want more for the important work that they do."

We all hear a lot about the need to significantly scale up our forest adaptation and resilience work—that is, thinning, replanting, prescribed burning and other tasks that are essential in preparing for and recovering from wildfire.

But what's often lost in this conversation is *who* is doing this work, and the future of that—at times, fraught—workforce in the face of increasing ecosystem needs in the West. It's one thing to say we need to get something done, but another thing entirely to know where that work is coming from, and the conditions those workers are facing. How can we ensure these folks are supported and being treated equitably in often unsafe, fast-paced and high-exposure jobs?

In the Pacific Northwest, a not-insignificant portion of forestry sector workers are Latine, many on H2B visas, which are temporary, non-agricultural working visas. Today's guest Emily Jane (E.J) Davis—along with co-authors Carl Wilmse, Manuel Machado and Gianna Alessi—aimed to learn more about these workers in a paper published in 2023 called Multiple Stories, Multiple Marginalities: The Labor Intensive Forest and Fire Stewardship Workforce in Oregon. 

What they found is that this type of employment leaves workers vulnerable to exploitative labor practices and working conditions, a lack of training and resources that result in critical leadership and safety gaps on site, and a lack of power or ability to organize or unionize to improve conditions. Recent ramping up of immigration enforcement is also having an impact on this workforce, as evidenced by the DHS raid on a fire in Washington State this summer. Rigoberto Hernandez Hernandez, one of the two firefighters who were detained, was released four weeks later. The other—José Bertín Cruz-Estrada, who'd worked in fire since 2019 but was undocumented—was deported to Mexico after two months of detainment.  Both worked on Oregon-based contract fire crews. 

In this episode, EJ—who is an associate professor at Oregon State University and the fire program director for the OSU extension—and I dive more deeply into some of the key takeaways of her research, some of the practical applications of that research through her extension position, and what the future of this research looks like. We discussed labor issues more broadly in the forestry and fire workforces, and how these challenges are often amplified considerably for marginalized communities in these positions, and particularly for the Latine workforce. 

E.J.'s biggest takeaway? If we truly hope to increase forest treatments and recovery work to the scale needed to make a meaningful difference, we need to not only acknowledge the challenges of the folks who are actually doing that work, but do everything we can to address those challenges and develop a more sustainable forest sector workforce for the work that awaits us.

Welcome to our second episode with women and non-binary firefighters who have written books about their experiences working both in fire and on hotshot crews more specifically. Our guest for this episode is HOTSHOT author River Selby (they/them), who spent seven years as a wildland firefighter—four of which were as a hotshot—from 2000 to 2010. They've since gotten their undergrad and MFA (in fiction) at Syracuse, and are currently working towards a PhD in Nonfiction with an emphasis in postcolonial histories, North American colonization, and postmodern literature and culture. This unique background allowed River to create a phenomenally in-depth book that covers not only their own experiences of working on crews and personal vignettes of life on and off the fireline, but it also paints a rich history of different fire ecologies across the American West (and world), and how colonization and fire suppression in the Western US (and elsewhere!) have set the stage for our modern relationship with fire. 
In our conversation, River and I talked about how firefighting allowed them to heal and grow, in a way, from the addiction, homelessness and violence that they had experienced in their youth. We spoke about some of the more academic themes of the book, including how colonization really informed our modern culture of fire suppression and—by extent—the culture of hotshotting. We spoke about the importance of Indigenous practices and land stewardship in righting this ship, as it were, and chatted a bit about our own experiences with hotshot culture and how it framed our experiences on fire crews. 
Click here to buy River's book HOTSHOT: A Life on Fire!
Click here to read an excerpt of HOTSHOT, which was published in High Country News in August.
Click here for River's book tour dates over the next few weeks. 
Click here to support Life with Fire's Patreon, which is helping keep this ship afloat while Amanda is in grad school.

We're bringing you two, count em TWO, episodes with women and non-binary firefighters and writers who have written books about their experiences working both in fire and on hotshot crews more specifically. The first in this short series is with author Kelly Ramsey, whose book WILDFIRE DAYS was released in June. Kelly and I spoke about some of the emotional toll of fighting fire—including the terrifying feeling of not feeling like you belong, especially in such an intense work environment—as well as the process of writing a book (including the nearly 50,000 words she wrote in her Notes app during her time in fire). A large part of our conversation centered on the many intricacies of hotshot culture that we both witnessed (and which, in some cases, left us both confounded). Many anecdotes, laughs and shared experiences ensued. This was a fun one to record and hopefully it's just as fun to listen to!
Here's another link to Kelly's book in case you missed the first one ;) 
Here's the Life with Fire Patreon, in the event you'd like to support me through the transition to grad school (where I will continue to publish podcast episodes, and will have much more access to lots of smart fire people as I'll be in Missoula!)

Welcome to our second episode with THE Stephen Pyne! Stephen is a renowned author and fire historian who, in addition to his academic life, also spent over a decade working on a fire crew on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon early in his career. Given this background, he seemed like quite possibly the perfect person to chat with about the recent Dragon Bravo Fire in Grand Canyon National Park. 
For a quick primer, the Dragon Bravo Fire started three miles north of the North Rim of the Grand Canyon during a lightning storm on July 5th. On Sunday, it destroyed the historic Grand Canyon Lodge and dozens of other buildings in the adjacent complex. It was being managed for resource benefit, or was in other words a "managed fire". I’m not going to go into all the details on the fire itself, but here’s a thorough, measured analysis from my friend Zeke at the Lookout regarding what took place over the week or so that the fire was being “managed for resource benefit” (I’ll get into what this means in a minute). Zeke also provides some of the behind the scenes context on wildfire decision making and some other educated thoughts that are very deserving of your time.
Stephen, as you'd expect, had some great perspective to share about this event. While we avoided armchair quarterbacking the decision making on the fire, Stephen was able to speak a bit about the decades of precedent for this kind of wildfire tragedy in the Southwest, about the background of managed fire use in the National Parks, and how important managed fire can be to reducing wildfire risk—but only if we acknowledge the limitations of managed fire policy and take more strides to improve our processes and learn from our mistakes. 
One of the improvements Stephen advocates for is being more forthcoming about managed fire with the public, which would include agencies being very clear about what managed fire is and isn't, what the objectives of managed fire typically are, what preparations have been made to make managing a fire the right decision and also—importantly—that mistakes can happen and how we can better prepare in the event that they do. 
The biggest takeaway from this episode is that we've done a poor job of building trust with the public, and especially so around the practice of managed fire. Perhaps now is a good time to have that conversation, and to figure out how we can reframe this conversation so that people get more of a glimpse at managed fire when it goes right?
For more background on Stephen, check out his TED Talk on how fire shapes everything, or this great essay he published in Scientific American last spring.