Holy Heretics: Losing Religion and Finding Jesus

Episode Summary:

There are places in the world where history doesn’t sit behind glass—it works directly with the present to shape the future. Broughton Hall is one of those places. Set across 3,000 acres in the rolling countryside of Yorkshire, England, the estate has been home to the Tempest family for more than 900 years. Its 97‑room manor house, a vast 16th‑century structure of stone and story, has held kings and queens, births and burials, and the quiet continuity of a lineage shaped by the land itself.
But Broughton is not a relic. Under the custodianship of today’s guest, Roger Tempest, the 32nd generation of his family to steward this land, the estate has become a living organism—one that is remembering its wildness and rediscovering its soul.
For decades, Roger has led one of the most ambitious rewilding efforts in the UK, allowing woodlands to regenerate, rivers to return to their natural courses, and wildlife to reclaim habitats long disrupted by industrial agriculture. The land is healing, and in its healing, it is teaching. At the heart of this renewal is The Sanctuary, a center for spiritual practice, creativity, and inner transformation. It’s a place where seekers, artists, contemplatives, and activists gather to reconnect with deeper rhythms of life. Here, outer rewilding and inner rewilding meet—where the land heals people, and people learn how to heal the land.
Our conversation moves through the spiritual undercurrents of this work—the listening, the surrender, the sense that the land itself is dreaming a future into being. Roger speaks from a lineage that stretches back nearly a millennium, yet everything he’s doing feels oriented toward what humanity might become next.
In this episode, Gary Alan and Roger discuss:
How custodianship differs from ownership—and why that shift changes everything
The spirituality that guides Roger’s vision
The outer and the inner life
Wildness as teacher and friend
Where the ancient and emergent meet in surprising ways
Broughton as a living laboratory for human transformation
What it means to cultivate a community that is both ancient and radically alive
Roger’s life offers a counter-narrative to the extractive, hurried patterns of modernity. His work at Broughton invites us to imagine a different way of inhabiting the world—one rooted in humility, reciprocity, and reverence for the more‑than‑human community.

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Show notes:

http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/roger-tempest-rebirthing-humanity

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This episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor. Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Episode Summary:

We begin Season Six of Holy Heretics in a world coming undone. Evil is on our doorstep. Our democratic norms are no more. A sociopathic madman and his predatorily ghouls are raping and robbing their way through our common life. An entire system of life is cracking beneath our feet.We are standing at the threshold of an old world that is dying and a new world yet to be born. The only real way through is inner: to awaken, to unfold, to cultivate a new humanity from the inside out.
To open this season, I sit down with 88-year-old mystic John Butler—British author, retired farmer, and lifelong seeker whose gentle presence has become a sanctuary for millions. Formed by silence, shaped by prayer, and seasoned by decades of wandering across continents and inner landscapes, Mr. Butler speaks from a depth rare in our dopamine-driven age. Many have come to know him by a name he never claimed but quietly embodies: “Mr. Nothing.” It’s a title that gestures toward the ego‑less simplicity he embodies—a way of being that asks nothing, claims nothing, and yet reveals everything essential. He reminds us that the ground of our being is never unstable, we’ve simply forgotten how to tap into it.
Besides farming and meditation, Mr. Butler has lived an extraordinarily interesting life, including much spiritual insight, emotional ups and downs, long periods in Peru, Africa and the USA besides several years in Russia, all of which have been part of the far from easy journey to where he is now.
This season is, at its core, a season of spiritual health—of learning how to live from a deeper center when the world around us is fraying. Along the way, we’ll be joined by voices who have spent their lives tending the sacred: Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde, whose moral clarity has guided many through storms; Stanley Hauerwas, whose fierce honesty cuts through our illusions; Mark Vernon, who maps the inner terrain of consciousness with philosophical grace; Martin Shaw, who calls us back into mythic imagination; KJ Ramsey, who helps us inhabit our bodies with courage and tenderness; and Matthew Fox, who has spent decades reminding us that we were not born in sin, but in original goodness.
Season Six is an invitation—to slow down, to listen, to return to the place within you that no propaganda can distort and no authoritarian can reach.
We’re back! And we’re beginning with a conversation that asks you to breathe, to soften, to sit in silence, and to remember that your personal transformation begins in the one place the world cannot colonize—your inner life.
Connect with Mr. Butler on his website, https://spiritualunfoldment.co.uk, for articles, interviews, and additional resources on the contemplative life.

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Show notes:

http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/spiritual-unfoldment-john-butler

Follow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyheretics | Substack: holyheretics.substack.com

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Support our work on Patreon or Substack and get early access to episodes and premium content like our online class on deconstruction!
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This episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor. Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Episode Summary:

Growing up evangelical required a preoccupation with external behaviors and moral performance, or what I now understand as sin management. My spiritual life was fear based. Behaviors like sexuality, masturbation, swearing, or drinking were litmus tests of spiritual maturity. The more you controlled, hid, or projected your external behaviors onto others, the closer you were to God. Behavior modification, external conformity, and the avoidance of sin was my ticket out of Hell. In evangelicalism, I was a problem to be fixed, not a person to be loved. What an anemic and harmful understanding of spirituality.
Leaving white evangelicalism meant finding deeper streams of spiritual wisdom. Instead of this hyper-fixation on what I was doing, inner Christianity helped me recognize God’s eternal presence at the core of my being, no matter what I was doing. God isn’t some external deity I need to placate, God is the lover of my soul. As I spiritually mature, I’m coming to realize the importance of cultivating my inner life instead of worrying about external behaviors. Or as Rainer Maria Rilke wrote, “The only journey is the one within."
External Christianity is about salvation in the afterlife. Inner Christianity is about personal transformation in this life. Contemplative or inner spirituality doesn’t ignore sin—it just approaches it differently. Instead of managing sin, it invites us to be still, to listen, and to let God transform us at the root. “Christ did not preach a mere ethical or social gospel but an uncompromisingly spiritual one. He declared that God can be seen, that Divine perfection can be achieved,” writes Swami Prabhavananda in his seminal work The Sermon on the Mount According to Vedanta.
Where does this leave us? How do we cultivate our interior life instead of focusing so much on externals? How do we focus on roots instead of fruits? I rarely quote Augustine, but he’s on point about this. "Do not look outside; return to yourself. In our interior the truth resides.” I’ll give that an amen.
In this final episode in season five, I’m honored to be joined by psychotherapist, philosopher, and mystic Dr. Mark Vernon. Mark is a writer, psychotherapist and former Anglican priest. He contributes to programs on BBC radio, writes and reviews for newspapers and magazines, gives talks and frequently podcasts. His books cover themes including friendship and God, William Blake and Dante, ancient Greek philosophy and wellbeing. He has a PhD in ancient Greek philosophy, and other degrees in physics and in theology. Dr. Vernon’s writings and teachings are deeply rooted in the inner life, exploring how we can cultivate spiritual depth and meaning in the modern world. You can connect with Dr. Vernon here!

Thanks for listening!

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Show notes:

http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/inner-christianity-mark-vernon

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This episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor. Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Episode Summary:

Today is June 14, 2025, a day that will live in infamy.
A sitting United States president is hosting a military-style parade in Washington D.C. that every crack-pot dictator from Adolf Hitler to Vladimir Putin would admire. Making matters worse, since re-gaining power in January, Trump’s regime has dismantled democracy, extended the power of the presidency, suspended habeas corpus, and unlawfully detained and deported thousands of immigrants. Trump’s manufactured chaos is designed to evoke a violent response. “Following the example of other authoritarians, Donald Trump wants us to burn cars. He wants us to throw rocks. He wants images of chaos — especially violence against police or National Guard troops — to flood the evening news,” writes In These Times. He wants blood in the streets. We can’t give it to him or he wins.
In response to Trump’s daily attack on democracy and his disgusting display of military might, a coalition of over 200 progressive organizations—including the ACLU, Indivisible, and the American Federation of Teachers—has organized a nationwide protest movement called “No Kings.” Millions of Americans are expected to turn out today at over 1,800 locations across the country, deliberately avoiding Washington, D.C., to emphasize grassroots, nonviolent resistance.
Speaking truth to power and resisting the principalities and rulers of this world is the faithful response to empire. As God’s people, resistance is in our DNA. According to pastor Robin Meyers in his book Spiritual Defiance, “Our Gospel was birthed in resistance to the brutal normalcy of the Roman Empire.” The more things change, the more they stay the same. Like the founder of our faith, we find ourselves living under the boot of an evil empire. How do we respond? What forms of resistance are available to us? Is violence ever justified?
Contrary to what many assume, nonviolent resistance isn’t meekness in the face of evil. It is the courageous and oftentimes creative task of disarmament. Nonviolent resistance is a way to fight against injustice without using violence. It is using the transformative force of love to resist oppression. The first Christians understood nonviolence to be the sin qua non of discipleship. So much so that there wasn’t even a word for pacifism during the first four centuries of Christianity. To call yourself Christian meant you were universally nonviolent. Following Jesus then and following Jesus now means we will find ourselves in opposition to empire.
In the following weeks and months, the need to confront Trump’s evil regime will continue. But how we resist is just as important as the resistance itself. As tempting as it will be, returning evil for evil will only result in greater oppression.
To help us better understand the transformative power of nonviolence, I’m joined on the show today by Dr. Jesse Nickel. Jesse gives a clear and convincing argument that the gospels present Jesus as a nonviolent revolutionary. What can we learn from the way Jesus resisted and confronting the empire of his day? Unlike his prophetic movement, will we return evil for evil? Will we fall into the imperial trap of fight or flight? Or, will we learn how to tap into the ancient model of nonviolent resistance to topple Trump’s regime?
As you go out today with courage to confront Trumpism, take this episode along with you. Listen to the plea for nonviolent resistance. Understand the power of taking on suffering rather than inflicting suffering. And rest in the peace and power that God has been dismantling empires for over 6,000 years.

Amen.

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Show notes:

http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/the-resistance-is-alive-and-well

Follow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyheretics | Substack: holyheretics.substack.com

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Support our work on Patreon or Substack and get early access to episodes and premium content like our online class on deconstruction!
https://www.patreon.com/holyheretics or subscribe to our Substack to gain access to Holy Heretics Shorts, premium content, and our online class on faith deconstruction!

This episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor. Music is by Faith in Foxholes.

Episode Summary:

Regina Cates joins me on the show to discuss her latest book The Real Conversations Jesus Wants Us to Have: A Call to Bravery, Peace, and Love. This episode is part memoir, part social commentary, and part call to action for those of us who grew up in religious fundamentalism and have found our way out to a bigger, broader, and more inclusive world.
I realize that a lot of our episodes lean toward the scholarly and the erudite, but this is not one of those. This conversation is personal, real, and raw. In fact, this is our 90th episode on Holy Heretics, and it may just be our most candid, open, and vulnerable conversation to date. You’ll learn about Regina’s early years as a young LGBTQIA girl, the abuse she suffered, and the way she protected her heart and soul in the midst of oppression. You’ll also learn what it looks like to set boundaries, fight oppression, and find yourself after leaving evangelicalism. This episode is a clarion call to wake up, to care for your body and soul as you recover from evangelical Christianity and all it’s oppressive forces.
Regina is an author, activist, podcaster, and founder of Romancing Your Soul, an organization that helps people develop lives of love, compassion, and purpose. Her first internationally bestselling book Lead with Your Heart: Creating a Life of Love, Compassion, and Purpose continues to be an inspiration to people who desire a more fulfilled life. Regina is followed by hundreds of thousands on social media who embrace her messages of kindness, compassion, and empathy for one another as equal members of our human family.
I think you will enjoy this conversation as Regina and I share our personal stories of leaving religious fundamentalism and finding faith, community, hope, and wholeness post-evangelicalism.

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Show notes:

http://www.sophiasociety.org/podcast/bravery-peace-self-love

Follow us on social media! Twitter: @holyheretics | Instagram: @holyhereticspodcast | Facebook: @holyheretics | Substack: holyheretics.substack.com

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Support our work on Patreon or Substack and get early access to episodes and premium content like our online class on deconstruction!
https://www.patreon.com/holyheretics or subscribe to our Substack to gain access to Holy Heretics Shorts, premium content, and our online class on faith deconstruction!

This episode was produced by The Sophia Society and written by Gary Alan Taylor. Music is by Faith in Foxholes.