Mormon Stories Podcast

Welcome to Part 37 in our series with Dr. John Turner covering his new book “Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.”

In this episode, we explore one of the most controversial and least understood rituals in early Mormonism: The Second Anointing. 

While Emma Smith was away, tensions continued to rise –but when she returned, the conflict between her and Joseph Smith regarding polygamy reached a breaking point. Already furious over plural marriage, Emma confronted Joseph in a series of explosive moments –demanding accountability, destroying symbolic gifts, and treating his reputation, his movement, and even his future. 

We follow the fallout from Emma’s return from St. Louis, including disputes involving figures like William Clayton and Eliza R. Snow, as well as the story of Flora Ann Woodworth –whose relationship with Joseph raises difficult questions about power, coercion, and consent.

As Emma pushes back, Joseph faces a real fear: that she could leave him and expose everything.

But then something changes.

At the center of this episode is the introduction of the Second Anointing –a secret, elite ordinance promising exaltation, godhood, and eternal salvation not just for the individual, but for their family line. We break down the ritual itself, the promise that “nothing but the shedding of innocent blood” can prevent godhood, the ability to seal others to eternal life, parallels to religious indulgences, and the spiritual framing of the ordinances for those who received it. 

We also examine how this moment may have shifted Emma’s resistance –and why, despite everything, she ultimately remained with Joseph until the very end.

If you’d like to help keep this project going, please consider donating to support this series here. Your support makes long-form, in-depth historical discussion like this possible!

Purchase John Turner’s book here.

Let us know your thoughts on a Brigham Young series (comprising ten episodes) covering John Turner’s book Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet.
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YouTube

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
One-time or recurring donations: https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m 
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 
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Paypal: https://paypal.me/mormonstories 

Join this channel to get access to perks:
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Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: https://www.mormonstories.org/episodes 
🎙️Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 
✳️Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1 
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Contact us:
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📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

Today we are joined by Dr. John Lundwall (PhD, comparative myth and religion), to share what he believes is the BIGGEST anachronism in the book of Mormon – the text itself. 

Using his expertise in ancient religions and how they are practiced, Dr. Lundwall offers an analysis of the religious cultures that exist in the Book of Mormon and how they are inconsistent with any other ancient religious practices. He examines early religious expression through rock art, solar deities, and ritual spaces, highlighting how ancient belief systems were primarily oral, symbolic, and embodied—expressed through ritual, chant, and performance rather than writing. He then contrasts this with the Book of Mormon’s highly text-centered nature, beginning with its very first page.

We will also discuss the religious cultures that exist in the Book of Mormon and how they are inconsistent with what we know about ancient societies. Dr. Lundwall explores how writing developed historically, and how religious knowledge was typically preserved and transmitted through oral tradition rather than written records. He will also discuss the “Golden Plates” at length, and share his insight on why their creation would have been highly unlikely for cultures of this time period.
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Show Notes
YouTube

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
One-time or recurring donations: https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m 
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 
Venmo: https://account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories 
Paypal: https://paypal.me/mormonstories 

Join this channel to get access to perks:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/join

Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: https://www.mormonstories.org/episodes 
🎙️Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 
✳️Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1 
🍎Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772 
🖼️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mormstories 
📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast 
🎮Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF 

Contact us:
📧 [email protected]
📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

Welcome to Part 36 of our Joseph Smith Podcast series with Dr. John Turner covering his new book “Joseph Smith: Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.”

Today we are covering Chapter 28: "Anointed" that covers 1843. 

In this episode, we explore one of the most explosive and painful chapters in early Mormon history –Emma Smith’s direct opposition to Joseph Smith over the practice of polygamy. As tensions rise within Nauvoo, Emma confronts the growing reality of plural marriage, leading to deep personal conflict, secrecy, and division.

We examine Joseph Smith’s controversial marriages, including his sealing to Helen Mar Kimball, and the broader system that introduced young women into polygamy –often through pressure, family influence, and religious framing. Through firsthand accounts, journals, and later testimonies, we unpack the human cost of these relationships and the theological justification behind them.

This episode also dives into Doctrine and Covenants 132 –the pivotal revelation on plural marriage –exploring its origins, its impact on Emma, and the broader implications for Mormon theology and authority. We discuss questions surrounding consent, power, sexuality, and the role of women, alongside the cultural and religious environment that allowed polygamy to take root. 

As the conflict escalates, Emma begins pushing back –publicly and privately –while Joseph attempts to solidify the practice doctrinally. The episode culminates in one of the most controversial and secretive ordinances in Mormonism: the Second Anointing.

If you’d like to help keep this project going, please consider donating to support this series here. Your support makes long-form, in-depth historical discussion like this possible!

Purchase John Turner’s book here.

Let us know your thoughts on a Brigham Young series (comprising ten episodes) covering John Turner’s book Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet.
___________________

Show Notes
YouTube

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
One-time or recurring donations: https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m 
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 
Venmo: https://account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories 
Paypal: https://paypal.me/mormonstories 

Join this channel to get access to perks:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/join

Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: https://www.mormonstories.org/episodes 
🎙️Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 
✳️Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1 
🍎Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772 
🖼️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mormstories 
📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast 
🎮Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF 

Contact us:
📧 [email protected]
📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

Joining John & Mergi Dehlin today is Chelsey Rencher Liaga, here to share her Mormon story of how she was “groomed” for Mormon motherhood, and how this hindered the development of her own mental health and self identity.

Chelsey was born in Gilbert, Arizona (a heavily Mormon community) and had a typical Mormon upbringing. She suffered from perfectionism as a child, which later led to body dysmorphia issues and an eating disorder that affected her time on her mission in Spokane, Washington.

After her mission she met her husband at BYU, and they quickly started building their perfect Mormon family. Chelsey describes the stress she felt early on in their marriage to cook, clean, and uphold the household, and how she eventually overcame this stressor.

She also details her career as a therapist, her experiences as a working mother, and working at LDS family services.

Topics include:
-Perfectionism
-Purity culture
-Motherhood
-Mixed faith marriage
-Mixed race marriage
-Mental Health

This is a pervasive issue in Mormonism that we know many Mormon women can relate to, and hope that Chelsey’s story can help other LDS women feel seen. 

TRIGGER WARNING: This episode discusses eating disorders. Please listen responsibly. 
___________________

Show Notes
YouTube

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
One-time or recurring donations: https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m 
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 
Venmo: https://account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories 
Paypal: https://paypal.me/mormonstories 

Join this channel to get access to perks:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/join

Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: https://www.mormonstories.org/episodes 
🎙️Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 
✳️Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1 
🍎Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772 
🖼️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mormstories 
📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast 
🎮Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF 

Contact us:
📧 [email protected]
📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

Following the passing of my dear friend and former BYU professor, Dr. William Bradshaw, we are honoring his life today by re-broadcasting my interview with him from 2010.

The original description for this episode is as follows:

"In this episode, John Dehlin interviews one of his former professors and mentors, Dr. William Bradshaw, on a wide variety of topics. Dr. Bradshaw has just recently retired from a rich and fulfilling career as a molecular biology professor at BYU in which he influenced thousands of students to continually be open to the best thinking of the sciences while still nurturing a robust, mature faith and spiritual life. Many report Dr. Bradshaw’s classes and their various interactions with him as pivotal to their finding a way to value the wisdom generated in both their heads and their hearts.

In this far-ranging discussion, Dr. Bradshaw takes us through the arc of his life, including his mission, experiences at Harvard, the circumstances of his career choice, and the surprise call he and his wife Marge received to serve as very young mission presidents in Hong Kong, during which service they had to wrestle with opening and closing missionary work in Vietnam. Dr. Bradshaw relates stories from his career at BYU, talks about science and religion issues, and reveals the way he faces challenges to his faith from Mormon history and scriptural studies.

Many Mormon Stories podcast listeners will already be familiar with one aspect of Dr. Bradshaw’s life from Episode 191, which featured a recording of the most recent lecture he gave at BYU on the biological origins of homosexuality–a lecture he has arranged and given every year for the past several years. Dr. Bradshaw first became prompted to study the research on this subject when his son Brett came out about his homosexuality. Since that time, the Bradshaws have been active members in various LDS groups for families working to support their LGBT children."

Dr. Bradshaw's funeral will be held at the Orem Stake Chapel (365 South 900 East, Orem, UT 84097) on April 3rd at 11:00 AM.
___________________

Show Notes
YouTube

At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  

Our overall mission is to: 
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
One-time or recurring donations: https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m 
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 
Venmo: https://account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories 
Paypal: https://paypal.me/mormonstories 

Join this channel to get access to perks:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/join

Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: https://www.mormonstories.org/episodes 
🎙️Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories 
✳️Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1 
🍎Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772 
🖼️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mormstories 
📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast 
🎮Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF 

Contact us:
📧 [email protected]
📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117