Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

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Peter Godfrey-Smith, professor at the University of Sydney and author of Other Minds: The Octopus and the Deep Origins of Consciousness, joins to explain why he thinks meeting an octopus is the closest we'll get to meeting an alien. He's now developing a new, speculative theory of consciousness centered on rhythm. The conversation explores why he thinks "having a mind" is a graded property rather than a yes-or-no one — and what that implies for earthworms, bacteria, and plants. We discuss how many selves may exist inside a single octopus. Godfrey-Smith explains why he suspects rhythmic, large-scale electrical activity in the brain — not just point-to-point neural firing — is essential to consciousness. He also addresses what Anthropic's discovery of a "workspace" inside Claude does and doesn't show, and why he assigns computers a very low probability of being conscious. Finally, he makes the case for why a silicon neuron could never do "exactly" what a biological one does. This is an in-depth conversation with Peter Godfrey-Smith.

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TIMESTAMPS:
- 00:00:00 - Cephalopods: The Closest Aliens
- 00:05:30 - Defining the Unconscious Mind
- 00:10:40 - Selfhood vs. Information Processing
- 00:16:10 - The Graded Nature of Mind
- 00:22:15 - Deflating the Concept of Life
- 00:29:00 - Convergent Evolution of Intelligence
- 00:35:40 - Distributed Neural Control Systems
- 00:42:50 - Multiple Subjects in One Body?
- 00:48:40 - Global Workspace Theory Critique
- 00:56:10 - AI and the Conscious Workspace
- 01:01:28 - Simulation Hypothesis Probabilities
- 01:08:40 - Biological Hardware Constraints
- 01:16:10 - Rhythmic Consciousness Theory
- 01:22:30 - Mind Uploading and Silicon Neurons
- 01:31:00 - Neural Dynamics of Subjectivity
- 01:37:00 - Deep Ocean Intelligence

LINKS MENTIONED:
- Other Minds [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0374227764?tag=toe08-20
- Peter's Website: https://petergodfreysmith.com/
- Reality+ [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0393635805?tag=toe08-20
- A Materialist Theory of the Mind [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0415100313?tag=toe08-20
- Rodolfo Llinas: https://med.nyu.edu/faculty/rodolfo-llinas
- Bruno's Research: https://qbi.uq.edu.au/groups/vanswinderen
- Dehaene's Commentary on Language Models [Paper]: https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/files/4zrzovbb/website/cc4be2488d65e54a6ed06492f8968398ddc18ebe.pdf
- A Cognitive Theory of Consciousness [Book]: http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Abstracts/Baars_88.html
- Oscillations in the Central Brain of Drosophila Are Phase Locked to Attended Visual Features [Paper]: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2010749117
- The ENCODE Project: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/genomics/encode-project.html
- What Is It Like to Be a Bat? [Paper]: https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Nagel_Bat.pdf
- The Explanatory Gap [Paper]: https://philpapers.org/rec/LEVMAQ
- Inferring Consciousness in Phylogenetically Distant Organisms [Paper]: https://direct.mit.edu/jocn/article/36/8/1660/120485/Inferring-Consciousness-in-Phylogenetically
- Remarkably Bright Creatures [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0063204150?tag=toe08-20
- Giant Cuttlefish: https://australian.museum/learn/animals/fishes/giant-cuttlefish-sepia-apama-gray-1849/
- Cuttlefish Exert Self-Control in a Delay of Gratification Task [Paper]: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/rspb/article/288/1946/20203161/86132/Cuttlefish-exert-self-control-in-a-delay-of
- Stanford Marshmallow Experiment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment
- How We Found the Giant Squid: https://www.ted.com/talks/edith_widder_how_we_found_the_giant_squid

More links at https://curtjaimungal.substack.com

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Ten days after winning the Fields Medal — math's highest honor — Jacob Tsimerman joins to explain why he's leaving academia temporarily for OpenAI's AI safety team, and why he's grieving even as he does it. The conversation covers why math is one of the first fields being radically reshaped by AI, whether a proof still counts if no one can understand it, what mathematical "understanding" really means, the ethics of elite access to frontier models, his disagreements with the Leiden Declaration, and his advice for young people weighing a career in pure math in an age of rapidly advancing AI. This is an exclusive first podcast with Jacob Tsimerman.

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TIMESTAMPS:
- 00:00:00 - Fields Medal and Grieving
- 00:05:38 - Canonical Human Cognition Patterns
- 00:10:40 - Prompting the Mathematical Future
- 00:15:40 - Pure Math and Physics Loops
- 00:21:00 - Epistemic Black Boxes
- 00:26:00 - Rigor Outgrowing Intuition
- 00:31:20 - Cognitive Mechanics of Understanding
- 00:37:00 - Gödel and Working Memory
- 00:42:10 - Mathematics as Improvised Art
- 00:47:30 - AI Power and Meritocracy
- 00:52:50 - Math on the Chopping Block
- 00:58:20 - Unrestricted Optimization Risks
- 01:03:40 - AI Safety Manhattan Project
- 01:08:50 - Training for Post-AI Careers
- 01:14:10 - The Managerial Shift
- 01:19:40 - Cognitive Offloading and Adaptation

LINKS MENTIONED:
- Jacob's Website: https://www.math.utoronto.ca/~jacobt/
- Jacob's Publications: https://www.semanticscholar.org/author/Jacob-Tsimerman/3130599
- Quanta's Story On Jacob [Article]: https://www.quantamagazine.org/jacob-tsimerman-wins-2026-fields-medal-for-andre-oort-conjecture-proof-20260723/
- André-Oort Conjecture: https://www.ams.org/journals/notices/202410/rnoti-p1307.pdf
- Canonical Heights On Shimura Varieties And The André-Oort Conjecture [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.08788
- O-Minimal GAGA And A Conjecture Of Griffiths [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1811.12230
- Ten Advances In Mathematics And Theoretical Computer Science: https://openai.com/index/ten-advances-in-mathematics/
- Thoughts About The Leiden Declaration: https://gowers.wordpress.com/2026/07/26/thoughts-about-the-leiden-declaration/
- Tobias Osborne LinkedIn Post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tobias-osborne-601830a5_farewell-to-the-conjecture-prover-several-share-7487777959299276800-mxsa/
- Math For AI Safety: https://mathforaisafety.org/
- Charles Fefferman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fefferman
- G-Functions, Motives, And Unlikely Intersections [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2501.09867
- Tobias Osborne's QFT Lectures: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDfPUNusx1EpRs-wku83aqYSKfR5fFmfS
- AISI Website: https://www.aisi.gov.uk/
- Sebastian Jaimungal: https://sebastian.statistics.utoronto.ca/
- Edward Frenkel [TOE]: https://youtu.be/RX1tZv_Nv4Y
- Roger Penrose [TOE]: https://youtu.be/iO03t21xhdk

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This podcast explores the uncanny link between two of the twentieth century's great visionary works. Becca Tarnas, assistant professor at the California Institute of Integral Studies, joins to discuss her doctoral research into the parallels between Carl Jung's Red Book and J.R.R. Tolkien's lesser-known visionary writings. The central claim: working independently, both men produced strikingly similar imagery, timing, and figures — Jung's Philemon and Tolkien's Gandalf, the Eye of the Evil One and the Eye of Sauron — while each insisted their material felt discovered rather than invented. From there the conversation moves through active imagination, the reality of archetypes, psyche versus mind, and the line between mystical insight and psychosis — a wide-ranging look at where imagination ends and reality begins.

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TIMESTAMPS:
- 00:00:00 - Jung and Tolkien's Red Books
- 00:05:42 - Archetypal Rhymes and Parallels
- 00:11:26 - Defining the Imaginal Realm
- 00:16:38 - Active Imagination vs. Dreaming
- 00:22:00 - Active Imagination Protocol
- 00:27:00 - Psyche’s Spontaneous Expression
- 00:33:57 - Ontology of Imaginal Figures
- 00:39:03 - Psychologizing vs. Mythologizing
- 00:45:57 - Planetary Archetypes Experience
- 00:51:34 - Perceiving Universal Beauty
- 00:58:23 - Universal vs. Objective Reality
- 01:04:00 - Psychosis vs. Gnosis
- 01:09:00 - Grounding the Visionary
- 01:15:00 - Symbolic Language of Madness
- 01:21:00 - Unearned Wisdom and Psychedelics
- 01:26:30 - Motherhood as Expanded State
- 01:33:57 - Meaning in Disconnection
- 01:40:56 - Intuition in Science
- 01:46:55 - Leonardo’s Light and Shade

LINKS MENTIONED:
- Journey To The Imaginal Realm [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/1947544217?tag=toe08-20
- Participatory Imagination [Lecture]: https://beccatarnas.com/2020/08/28/jungs-participatory-imagination/
- Becca's PhD Defense: https://youtu.be/3soOYajHUBM
- The Red Book [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0393089088?tag=toe08-20
- The Holy Grail Of The Unconscious [Article]: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/magazine/20jung-t.html
- Active Imagination: https://jungiancenter.org/jung-on-active-imagination-features-methods-and-warnings/
- Jung On Active Imagination [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0691015767?tag=toe08-20
- Richard Tarnas's Website: https://cosmosandpsyche.com/
- The Passion Of The Western Mind [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0345368096?tag=toe08-20
- Psychological Types [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/1614279705?tag=toe08-20
- The Fellowship Of The Ring [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0547928211?tag=toe08-20
- Kant's 'Categories': https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant/
- The Imaginary And The Imaginal [Paper]: http://www.bahaistudies.net/asma/mundus_imaginalis.pdf
- Toni Wolff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toni_Wolff
- The Call Of Cthulhu [Book]: https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/cc.aspx
- The Shadow: https://iaap.org/jung-analytical-psychology/short-articles-on-analytical-psychology/the-shadow/
- BBC Interviews Curt: https://www.bbc.com/audio/play/m002s4hd
- Andres Emilsson [TOE]: https://youtu.be/gi08eVU_-f8
- Leo Gura [TOE]: https://youtu.be/R-w8k4smC74
- Iain McGilchrist [TOE]: https://youtu.be/Q9sBKCd2HD0
- Greg Kondrak [TOE]: https://youtu.be/FFW14zSYiFY
- John Vervaeke [TOE]: https://youtu.be/3p8o3-7mvQc
- Bernardo Kastrup & Susan Blackmore [TOE]: https://youtu.be/jrVnAWP2XEs
- Consciousness Iceberg [TOE]: https://youtu.be/65yjqIDghEk

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This is a careful lecture that can be followed with zero background knowledge. Einstein thought he'd caught quantum mechanics in an act of spookiness — this podcast asks whether he was even worried about the right thing. Tim Maudlin, professor of philosophy at NYU and a leading philosopher of physics, delivers a rare full lecture tracing Einstein, EPR, and the road to Bell's theorem. The central claim: Einstein's real objection was never determinism — "God does not play dice" is a red herring — but non-locality, which he inferred rather than assumed. Maudlin traces the argument from Einstein's overlooked 1927 Solvay objection through the EPR paper's criterion of reality, showing why Bohr's famous reply never actually answered it.

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TIMESTAMPS:
- 00:00:00 - Einstein's Quantization Hypothesis
- 00:07:20 - Photoelectric Effect Implications
- 00:12:30 - Wave-Particle Duality Myths
- 00:20:40 - De Broglie's Matter Waves
- 00:26:40 - Copenhagen's Completeness Doctrine
- 00:34:10 - Solvay 1927: Two Conceptions
- 00:41:20 - Pinhole Diffraction Problem
- 00:48:00 - Collapse and Relativity Violations
- 00:56:00 - Epistemic vs. Ontic Collapse
- 01:05:00 - Ontological vs. Dynamical Locality
- 01:14:00 - Configuration Space Objections
- 01:25:00 - EPR's Criterion of Reality
- 01:32:40 - Analyzing the Reality Criterion
- 01:40:50 - Causal Isolation and Locality
- 01:48:45 - Entangled Momentum Eigenstates
- 01:56:45 - Logical Core of EPR
- 02:04:40 - Position-Momentum Simultaneous Reality
- 02:14:00 - Inferring Determinism from Locality
- 02:26:30 - Conservation Laws and Information
- 02:37:40 - Counterfactual Definiteness Debunked
- 02:44:00 - Bohr's Incoherent Response
- 02:52:00 - Schrödinger's Entanglement Confession

LINKS MENTIONED:
- Quantum Non-Locality and Relativity [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/1444331272?tag=toe08-20
- On a Heuristic Point of View About the Creation and Conversion of Light [Paper]: https://sites.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/lectures/Rotman_Summer_School_2013/Einstein_1905_docs/Einstein_Light_Quantum_WikiSource.pdf
- The Ghost in the Atom [Paper]: https://vdoc.pub/download/the-ghost-in-the-atom-a-discussion-of-the-mysteries-of-quantum-physics-1guq071e2ukg
- Collected Papers on Wave Mechanics [Paper]: https://mwolf.pracownicy.uksw.edu.pl/MK/Schrodinger_Collected_Papers_on_Wave_Mechanics.pdf
- Quantum Theory at the Crossroads [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0521814219?tag=toe08-20
- Can Quantum-Mechanical Description of Physical Reality Be Considered Complete? [Paper]: https://journals.aps.org/pr/pdf/10.1103/PhysRev.47.777
- Bohr's EPR Critique [Paper]: https://journals.aps.org/pr/pdf/10.1103/PhysRev.48.696
- The Present Situation in Quantum Mechanics [Paper]: https://personal.lse.ac.uk/robert49/teaching/partiii/pdf/SchroedingerPresentSituation1935(1980trans).pdf
- Bertlmann's Socks and the Nature of Reality [Paper]: https://cds.cern.ch/record/142461/files/198009299.pdf
- On the Einstein Podolsky Rosen Paradox [Paper]: https://journals.aps.org/ppf/pdf/10.1103/PhysicsPhysiqueFizika.1.195
- Quantum Theory and Measurement [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0691613168?tag=toe08-20
- Tim Maudlin [TOE]: https://youtu.be/fU1bs5o3nss
- Sean Carroll [TOE]: https://youtu.be/9AoRxtYZrZo
- Robert Sapolsky [TOE]: https://youtu.be/z0IqA1hYKY8
- Jenann Ismael [TOE]: https://youtu.be/7kvXihDAOi0

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This is a podcast all about parallel universes, and whether we have any right to believe in them. David Wallace, professor of philosophy of science at the University of Pittsburgh and a leading defender of the Many Worlds Interpretation, joins Professor Emily Adlam, his former student, for a rare joint conversation. The central fault line: Adlam argues no one living inside a many-worlds universe could ever rationally confirm the theory describing it, since Everettian probability may undermine the evidence used to support quantum mechanics itself. Wallace disagrees, but takes the challenge seriously. From there they range across the nature of the wave function, relational quantum mechanics, QBism, and scientific intersubjectivity — two sharp, collegial minds disagreeing productively about what kind of universe we actually live in.

TIMESTAMPS:
- 00:00:00 - Wave Function Ontology
- 00:05:35 - Everettian Probability Problem
- 00:11:45 - Relational Quantum Mechanics Limits
- 00:19:15 - Quantum Gravity Frameworks
- 00:24:50 - Subsystem Decomposition Approximations
- 00:31:10 - Testing Wavefunction Collapse
- 00:38:35 - Scientific Intersubjectivity Crisis
- 00:47:55 - Many Worlds Rationality Constraints
- 00:58:50 - QBism and Physical Reality
- 01:05:05 - Conservative Philosophy of Physics

LINKS MENTIONED:
- Emily Adlam's Papers: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=RlTqjZMAAAAJ
- David Wallace's Papers: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=Z35CeHAAAAAJ
- Pointer Basis Of Quantum Apparatus [Paper]: https://libertadacademica.com/Cuantica/ModernaHist/Zurek%20b.pdf
- Information Is Physical [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.13342
- Relative Information, Relative Facts [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.11349
- What Kind Of Relationality Does Quantum Mechanics Exhibit? [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2502.06991
- Models Of Wave-Function Collapse, Underlying Theories, And Experimental Tests [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/1204.4325
- On Gravity's Role In Quantum State Reduction [Paper]: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02105068
- Real Patterns In Physics And Beyond [Paper]: https://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/23888/
- Learning To Represent [Paper]: https://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/23224/1/learning_to_represent.pdf
- Operational Theories As Structural Realism [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2201.09316
- Relational Quantum Mechanics [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9609002
- Measurement Outcomes And Probability In Everettian Quantum Mechanics [Paper]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1355219806000694
- Quantum Probability From Subjective Likelihood [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0312157

More links (past guest episodes) at https://curtjaimungal.substack.com

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