The Emergent Mind: From Ant Colonies to Human Thought to Artificial Intelligence
In this episode of The Michael Shermer Show, Michael sits down with two giants of mind and machine science: Jay McClelland, one of the founders of modern neural networks, and Gaurav Suri, computational neuroscientist and director of the RAD Lab. Drawing from decades of research, they walk us through the revolution from behaviorism to cognitive psychology to modern neuroscience, and why simple interacting units can give rise to astonishingly complex behaviors. From why we perceive letters differently in context to how memory works, why consciousness remains baffling, and what AI is (and isn't) actually doing, this episode dives deep into the mechanics of all levels of thought, mind, and even consciousness. Jay McClelland is a professor of psychology and of computer science and linguistics at Stanford University. He is one of the most influential and well-known cognitive scientists of the past century. He is the founder of the study of artificial neural networks, and his publications have been cited more than 100,000 times. He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences and a Corresponding Fellow of the British Academy. Gaurav Suri is an associate professor of psychology at San Francisco State University. He is a computational neuroscientist and an experimental psychologist. He is the director of RADLab, where he studies the mechanisms that shape motivated action and decision making. He is the co-author of the prize-winning novel A Certain Ambiguity and several dozen influential research papers. Their new book is The Emergent Mind: How Intelligence Arises in People and Machines.
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1:44:30
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1:44:30
Are We Meant to Leave Earth? Why Humanity May Have No Choice but to Go to Space
Astrobiologist Caleb Scharf joins Michael Shermer for a wide-ranging conversation about the past, present, and future of our relationship with space. Drawing on his new book The Giant Leap, Scharf explains why human expansion beyond Earth may be less a choice than an evolutionary development, and he walks through the physics, history, and personalities that shaped our journey off the planet. Scharf also explains the biological toll of radiation and microgravity, and why terraforming Mars is probably unrealistic and why our future might rely more on building vast rotating habitats in space than on settling other planets. Caleb Scharf is an astrobiologist and recipient of the 2022 Carl Sagan Medal. He was Director of Astrobiology at Columbia University in New York and is now the Senior Scientist for Astrobiology at the NASA Ames Research Center in Silicon Valley. He is author of more than 120 scientific papers and over 500 popular science articles. His new book is The Giant Leap: Why Space is the Next Frontier in the Evolution of Life.
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1:33:34
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1:33:34
Cosmology, Creation, and the Evidence for God
In this episode, Michel-Yves Bolloré lays out his case for why modern cosmology, fine-tuning, and the limits of materialism point toward a creator. Drawing on physics, thermodynamics, probability, and philosophy, he argues that the Big Bang, the apparent beginning of the universe, and the complexity of life collectively form a compelling body of evidence for God's existence. Bolloré explains why he believes the universe is not eternal, why "nothing" cannot produce "something," how moral red lines suggest a transcendent source, and how he reconciles scientific reasoning with his Christian faith, while Michael Shermer gently but rigorously presses him with questions to elicit his strongest arguments. Michel-Yves Bolloré is an engineer and entrepreneur whose career spans industrial innovation and philanthropic investment in education. He is a graduate of the École Nationale Supérieure d'Ingénieur de Toulouse and Paris-Dauphine University (Master of Science and Doctorate in Business Administration). He founded several schools, including The Laurels in London and Les Vignes in France. He is also a Knight of the Legion of Honor. His new book is God: the Science and the Evidence.
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1:16:23
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1:16:23
Why Eastbound Flights Are Faster, and Other Strange Things About Wind (Simon Winchester)
Have you ever thought about the science and history of … wind? In this episode, Simon Winchester explains why eastbound flights are usually faster than flying west, and how the discovery of the jet stream was almost missed because the original research was published in Esperanto. He also talks about the debate over the Great Terrestrial Stilling—the idea that global wind speeds may be decreasing—and why newer measurements suggest the trend may be reversing. Winchester describes how and where the highest wind speed ever recorded was measured, the increasing frequency of clear-air turbulence (the kind that causes sudden drops during flights), why only one flag placed on the Moon fell, the techniques used by Polynesian navigators to cross vast stretches of ocean without instruments, and the challenges faced by early wartime pilots who unintentionally flew into the jet stream. Simon Winchester is the acclaimed author of many books, including The Professor and the Madman, which was adapted into a film starring Mel Gibson and Sean Penn, as well as The Men Who United the United States, The Map That Changed the World, The Man Who Loved China, A Crack in the Edge of the World, and Krakatoa. His books have been New York Times bestsellers and have appeared on numerous best-of-the-year lists. In 2006 he was appointed an Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE) by Her Majesty the Queen.
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1:20:41
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1:20:41
Logic, Creativity, and the Limits of AI: How Humans Think in Ways Machines Never Will
In this episode, Angus Fletcher explains why the human brain doesn't work like a computer and why our deepest strengths come not from logic or data processing but from imagination, emotion, and the ability to invent new futures. Drawing on neuroscience, Shakespeare, evolutionary biology, and his work with U.S. Army Special Operations, Fletcher shows how storytelling is the brain's oldest "technology," why intelligence is rooted in action rather than analysis, and what most people get wrong about creativity and common sense. Angus Fletcher is a professor of story science at Ohio State's Project Narrative, the world's leading academic think tank dedicated to understanding how stories work. He earned his PhD from Yale, conducted postdoctoral research at Stanford, and in 2023 received the U.S. Army's Commendation Medal for his groundbreaking work with Army Special Operations on primal intelligence. He has also written screenplays for major Hollywood studios and networks. His new book is Primal Intelligence: You Are Smarter Than You Know.
The Michael Shermer Show is a series of long-form conversations between Dr. Michael Shermer and leading scientists, philosophers, historians, scholars, writers and thinkers about the most important issues of our time.
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