The Sacred

Michael Pollan tried psychedelics at 55. What he found changed everything he thought he knew.
Michael is not a mystic or a guru. He is the kind of writer that scientists, doctors and serious intellectuals trust - someone who changed the way millions of people think about food, farming and the natural world. So when Michael Pollan tried psychedelics at 55 and came back saying the certainties had started to dissolve - the world began to listen in a way they simply wouldn't have for anyone else.
In this conversation, Michael and Elizabeth explore what it actually means to be conscious — and whether we're squandering it. Why does every psychedelic trip seem to arrive at the same slightly cliché and yet, beautiful conclusions? What have we lost by building a science of the mind that brackets out the body, the emotions and everything that actually feels like something? Why is the cool, analytical part of our brain so much louder than the part that knows how to be present — and who benefits from keeping it that way? And what are the algorithms really stealing when they steal our attention?
They cover:
• Why science keeps getting within reach of explaining consciousness — and then losing its nerve
• What psychedelics reveal that embarrasses serious researchers (and why that embarrassment is the clue)
• The Silicon Valley bid to upload consciousness
• How to protect your attention in an age designed to steal it
• Why not-knowing might be the most important skill of our time
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Our guests and listeners to our podcast come from all kinds of perspectives and what draws us together is a desire to be self-aware about our own values and curious about other peoples. Comment your reflections below, we read them all👇

The Sacred is produced in partnership with Comment Magazine, and with support from The Jerusalem Trust and Open Society Foundations.
🎙️Listen to The Sacred: linktr.ee/sacredpodcast
📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/
💡Produced by Theos Think Tank: www.theosthinktank.co.uk/👉 Michael Pollan's book on Consciousness: https://michaelpollan.com/books/how-to-change-your-mind/

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Chapters
0:00 - Intro trailer
01:45 - What is Sacred to you? Michael Pollan answers
3:45 - When the ego dissolves: what psychedelics actually do
4:25 - Growing up with an alcoholic father and becoming the man with all the answers
6:01 - 'How to Change Your Mind; shifted culture
6:25 - Michael's lifelong obsession with nature
7:22 - Why feelings became an embarrassment to science
8:16 - First experience of psychedelics
9:18 - Is consciousness being polluted — and do we even notice?10:18 - Silicon Valley wants to upload the soul. Here's why that's terrifying
26:13 - Why being a sceptic, not an expert, made the psychedelic book so influential
28:33 - How writers sense a cultural shift before it happens
30:25 - The president who colonised our consciousness and won't leave
32:06 - Elizabeth's encounter with God at age 11
36:33 - The Zen cave, Roshi Joan Halifax, and learning to not know
41:27 - We can't afford to be anything less than present
43:24 - How men get scripted out of their own inner lives
46:10 - Consciousness as the secular word for soul
49:04 - Protect your inner life from the algorithm
52:12 - Why don't they just make a baby? The funniest moment in the book
54:24 - Ayahuasca, idealism and the scientist who changed his mind twice
56:06 - Cultivating the don't-know mind
56:32 - Elizabeth's reflections

What happens after winning Bake Off? Jasmine Mitchell joins us to talk about perfectionism, alopecia, self-image, and learning to be fully yourself in a world obsessed with image.
Jasmine reflects on growing up in a home shaped by hospitality, losing her hair as a teenager, learning to let go of perfection, and the unexpected journey that took her from medical school to winning British Bake Off 2025.

Elizabeth Oldfield and Jasmine explore:
• Why “go slow” became Jasmine’s grounding philosophy
• Her journey with alopecia and being fully seen
• Reality TV, public image and is Bake Off different from the rest?• Why hospitality and shared meals matter so deeply
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🎙️Listen to The Sacred: linktr.ee/sacredpodcast
📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/
💡Produced by Theos Think Tank: www.theosthinktank.co.uk/👉 Follow Jasmine: https://www.instagram.com/jasmine.mitchell/tagged/?hl=en

Nearly a decade into The Sacred, we’re still doing the same thing: having honest and curious conversations with people who see the world differently.

We're wondering why - like the return of spring - seeking to understand another person at a deep level never seems to get old.

There's something about learning to truly understand people outside our “tribe” that feels challenging and pleasurable all at once and we're seeing (nine years later!) just how much we need these conversations today.

As Maff Potts says, “the answer to our problems is each other.”
So this is a practice, a community and a place to sit with the hard questions and we're really glad you’re doing it with us.
— The Sacred Team - Elizabeth, Josh, Amari & Joe

👀 You may notice that our visuals have been levelled up. We’re delighted that our team is growing and The Sacred will be getting a lot more beautiful and creative!
✍️ Substack: https://thesacredpodcast.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips
💡 Theos Think Tank: www.theosthinktank.co.uk/

The world wasn’t built for everyone. Leah Libresco Sargeant on feminism, care, and the myth of the “neutral” human.
Join our community of people listening curiously to different perspectives: https://www.youtube.com/@thesacredpodcast/videos
Leah has spent her life following philosophy to its limits, from Kantian questions of moral truth to reckoning with human vulnerability. Her journey reveals what happens when the world is built for a ‘neutral human’ - and who it leaves behind.
This conversation explores feminism, gender difference, care, and what it really means to take morality seriously.
Leah is the writer of Dignity of Dependence, works in of family policy and is the host of Other Feminisms on Substack.
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✍️ Find us on Substack: https://thesacredpodcast.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips
📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/
💡 Produced by Theos Think Tank: www.theosthinktank.co.uk/👉Check out Leah's substack: https://www.otherfeminisms.com/

What actually shapes the life you’re living - your own choices, or the ones you inherited?
In this episode of The Sacred, we are with Dr Rangan Chatterjee exploring the moments that force our values to the surface - births, deaths and major life events - and how they can reset the direction of our lives.
An Indian immigrant doctor, his father worked relentlessly to give his family opportunities — but it also came at a cost and contributed to the illness that ended his career and eventually his life. This left Dr Rangan with the question 'Dad, was it worth it?"

This conversation opens up topics that many of us choose to avoid:
• Workaholism and the drive for more
• What it really means to define “success” for yourself
• What it takes to consciously choose what we carry forward from our parents

Dr Rangan Chatterjee is a former GP, bestselling author and one of the UK’s most recognisable voices on a holistic approach to health.
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🎙️Listen to The Sacred: linktr.ee/sacredpodcast\
📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/
💡Produced by Theos Think Tank: www.theosthinktank.co.uk/👉 Check out Dr Rangan's podcast, Feel Better Live More: https://drchatterjee.com/podcast-epis...

Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:50 What is Sacred to You? Dr. Rangan Chatterjee answers
1:31 Staying connected to family roots
2:09 Career sacrifices and setting boundaries
5:14 Being non-judgmental around boundaries
6:23 Understanding empathy from a most-wanted criminal
9:11 Everyone's story makes sense
12:06 Indian upbringing vs western culture at school
13:41 Integrating eastern values into modern life
15:35 Teaching respect and kindness to children
17:29 Father's work ethic and health impact
19:41 "Was it worth it?"
22:29 Recognising overworking and knowing what is enough
24:51 Surprising personal interests and finding joy
27:30 Spiritual awakening, introspection and personal growth
29:19 Whose life are you leading?
33:39 Are you religious?
36:23 Responding to negative comments with kindness
39:56 Meaningful living and the importance of relationships, humour, and belief

Keywords:values, grief and growth, redefining success, what is enough, living with intention, family and sacrifice, work life balance, burnout and overwork, meaning of life, personal growth, self reflection, life purpose, inner work, emotional wellbeing, mental health, lifestyle medicine, holistic health, parenting and values, legacy and inheritance, immigrant family story, identity and belonging, cultural identity, compassion and empathy, curiosity over judgment, relationships and connection, modern life stress, slowing down, presence and mindfulness, gratitude practice, life transitions, dealing with loss, grief and clarity, success vs happiness, redefining ambition, work ethic rethink, conscious living, self awareness, asking better questions, deep conversations, philosophy of life, spirituality and meaning, living authentically, personal values, making better choices, life design, happiness and contentment, avoiding burnout, healing generational patterns, carrying forward what matters