Learning and Teaching Systemic Therapy

In today’s episode, we discuss the book Queer-Contextualized Family Therapy: Toward Radically Inclusive Theory and Practice, and I’m joined by the book’s editors, Dr. Erica Hartwell and Dr. Lindsay Edwards. 

Dr. Erica Hartwell is an Associate Professor of Marriage, Couple, and Family Therapy in the Lewis and Clark Graduate School of Education and Counseling. Her teaching, supervision, and scholarship is focused on creating community, compassion, and justice, with a focus on queer and trans mental health and well-being. In 2023, she received Fairfield University’s highest faculty honor, the Robert E. Wall award, in recognition of her forthcoming book, Queer-Contextualized Family Therapy: Toward Radical Theory and Practice. She served as the first chair of AAMFT’s Queer and Trans Advocacy Network and led the development of the Clinical Guidelines for LGBTQIA Affirming Marriage and Family Therapy. As an AAMFT Board Member, she worked on the Gender-Affirming Care Position Statement. 

Dr. Edwards is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and an AAMFT Approved Supervisor. She dedicated 11 years to academia, serving as faculty within several accredited couple and family therapy programs. During this time, she conducted research, published articles, and provided didactic instruction and clinical supervision to MFTs in training. Currently, Dr. Edwards serves as a manager for Colorado's Behavioral Health Administration, overseeing the Children and Youth Mental Health Treatment Act and other critical mental health initiatives. Beyond her administrative role, she specializes in LGBTQ+ inclusive family therapy and remains deeply committed to the field by providing private practice supervision and supervision mentorship.  

Dr. Lindsay Edwards can be contacted through her website:  https://www.drlindsayedwards.com/

Questions we discussed in this episode: 

You frame queer-contextualizing as a beginning framework, not “the answer,” but a question for the field. Share with us what this framework looks like.

What are some questions you want clinicians, supervisors, and educators to keep asking as they apply this framework to any model (including models that may not be covered in the book)?

A key thread you wanted to highlight in this text is that it is not only about queerness, but about reenvisioning how our foundational models could be reimagined to tend to any marginalized identity/positioning.

When a clinician is working in a country or cultural context with a different dominant discourse, what are some “dominant assumptions” you recommend they identify and unpack?

The table of contents applies queer-contextualizing to multiple foundational approaches (Structural, Strategic, Satir, EFT, Bowen, Contextual, Gottman, SFBT, Collaborative).

Please share with us an example of how a queer-contextualizing framework changes case conceptualization and intervention planning from a Bowenian approach?

Please share with us an example of how a queer-contextualizing framework changes case conceptualization and intervention planning from a Satir approach?

Your editorial process itself sounds aligned with the book’s values: It started with an open call, intensive 1:1 work with authors, and inviting contributors to “say the wild thing” outside typical academic constraints. What did you learn from editing this way, and how do you hope it influences how we write, teach, and evaluate scholarship in our training programs?

Purchase the book here: https://www.routledge.com/Queer-Contextualized-Family-Therapy-Toward-Radically-Inclusive-Theory-and-Practice/Hartwell-Edwards/p/book/9781032311265

Dr Leonie White is a Clinical Family Therapist and Psychologist with almost 30 years’ experience.  She works in private practice and as the Director of Phoenix Family Therapy Academy. 

Leonie has spent more than a decade in AAFT-accredited family therapy training programs and has taught, trained, and supervised across multiple university programs.  She brings a practical, integrative, and attachment and neuroscience-informed systemic lens to support both emerging and experienced practitioners with teaching that reflects a deep commitment to adult learning and experiential approaches.

Leonie offers a broad range of professional development initiatives across Australia and New Zealand, including foundational, advanced, trauma-informed, and systemic family therapy workshops. She also provides individual and group supervision, mentorship, and consultancy to mental health, education, and child protection professionals.

Leonie has presented at national and international conferences, including keynote addresses.  She has contributed to the field through academic publications, as Guest Editor for a special issue of the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy (ANZJFT) on integrative practice, and she is currently working on a special issue of the ANZJFT on teaching family therapy in Australia.

Find out more about Leonie and connect:

www.drleoniewhite.com

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-leonie-white-9a915489/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drleoniewhite

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drleoniewhite

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@drleoniewhite4202

 

Find out more about Phoenix Family Therapy Academy here

www.phoenixftacademy.com

https://www.youtube.com/@PhoenixFamilyTherapyAcadem-s9y

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61566716197513

Questions we discussed in this episode:

In your training courses and certificate programs, you center a multi-positioned, integrative stance in systemic practice. Could you walk us through your approach and what teaching methods you use to train clinicians in it?

You offer industry-specific trauma-informed trainings, such as for maternity services, emergency departments and schools. What adjustments to language, pacing, and alliance building have proven most critical when translating systemic and trauma-informed principles into these specific contexts?

You have developed practical tools such as the Helping Families Thrive cards and strength cards. What design principles guided these resources, and how do you integrate them within sessions to shift talk from problems to resources without bypassing risk or trauma cues?

Other resources discussed by Dr. White:

ANZJFT special issue on Integrative Practice - free to read
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/toc/14678438/2022/43/1
 
Glenn Larner's articles are available freely on ResearchGate
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247831055_Integrative_Family_Therapy_With_Childhood_Chronic_Illness_An_Ethics_of_Practice
 
Roger Lowe's book on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/stores/Roger-D.-Lowe/author/B001KHDCMA?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1763684043&sr=1-1&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true&ccs_id=de2aa50e-09dc-4535-a59b-a131241ea959

Today on the podcast, we have Dr. Adam Jones from Texas Woman's University and his amazing Master's student, Madeline Schock.

Questions about the FSIS Rating Scale that we discussed today:

You helped develop the Facilitative Systemic Intervention Skills measure. Can you help us understand a little bit about why you developed the measure and what it is?

How you measure these systemic therapy skills? Can we briefly list the skills and discuss them? 

The FSIS captures 8 distinct dimensions of systemic intervention skills. Can you walk us through how you identified these specific eight dimensions? How did you determine that effective family therapists were demonstrating these particular skills?

Are the skills intended to be viewed as a sequence, like a step-by-step guide to responding?

Your research suggests we can now measure and predict therapeutic effectiveness with specific behavioral indicators. How does this evidence-based approach challenge or support traditional MFT training methods? Are there traditions in our field - like live supervision or family-of-origin work - that you think we should reconsider?

You are training students to rate  therapist responses  and use the FSIS measures. Madeline, what is this training like? What has been your experience in working on this research while you’re also developing as a therapist? Have you noticed the research informing what you do in the therapy room?

How is your FSIS research changing how you teach family therapy techniques?

Talk to me about your collaborations with other universities to implement their own FSIS projects and research studies. How would faculty begin using this? 

Looking ahead, how do you envision the FSIS and similar research tools transforming MFT education?

Interested in learning more about FSIS and getting trained to use it?

Check out this linktree for more information: https://linktr.ee/fsis8 

Dr. Adam Jones bio:

Adam Jones, PhD LMFT-Associate is an assistant professor of Family Therapy at Texas Woman’s University. He enjoys working with students at TWU in research, teaching, and clinical training. His research looks at therapist skill development. He is a co-developer of the  Facilitative Systemic Intervention Skills measure with Dr. Myrna Friedlander. He directs an awesome team of raters who rate therapist responses to challenging vignettes. He has a small private practice and provides therapy services at the TWU Stroke Center in Dallas Texas. He also likes to play the piano and the guitar, though he isn’t particularly good at either of them. He can be reached via email: [email protected]

Madeline Schock bio:

Madeline is a master’s student at Texas Woman's University, pursuing a degree in marriage and family therapy. During her time at TWU, she has completed clinical hours at the local school district’s Family Center, worked as a research assistant for two professors, and served as vice president of the Student Association of Marriage and Family Therapy. Her primary therapeutic approach is narrative therapy. She is particularly interested in working with neurodivergent children and adolescents, as well as families experiencing or adjusting to divorce. Her work with the FSIS task has significantly shaped her clinical development, and she hopes to continue growing as a therapist as she prepares for licensure and begins seeing clients as an LMFT-Associate.
She can be reached via email: [email protected]

Today's guest is the amazing Dr. Tequilla Hill! She is a licensed systemic psychotherapist, seasoned somatic educator, healing artist, and mindful entrepreneur with over 20 years of experience in wellness and behavioral health. Grounded in systemic psychotherapy and somatic practices, she integrates talk therapy, meditation, breathwork, and somatic movement to support emotional healing, nervous system regulation, and relational restoration.

As a healing artist, Dr. Hill incorporates expressive arts, somatic movement, visual art, and writing into her clinical and educational work to deepen emotional expression and support embodied transformation. She is proud to come from a family of artists and creatives and feels honored to carry that legacy forward by weaving these elements into her therapeutic and teaching practice.

Rooted in compassion and presence, Dr. Hill walks alongside therapists and wellness seekers alike, guiding them toward practices that nurture sustainable self-care, emotional healing, and a grounded sense of well-being. She consults, teaches, and leads with intention, offering experiences that restore clarity and vitality. Her passion for well-being, movement, and emotional wellness also led her to center her doctoral dissertation on therapist self-care, a topic she continues to champion in her work today.

She holds a PhD and MS in Marriage and Family Therapy from Nova Southeastern University, a BA in Psychology from Florida Atlantic University, and an AA in Liberal Arts from Broward College. Dr. Hill is a sought-after therapist, wellness consultant, and mindfulness facilitator known for her integrative and compassionate approach.

In this episode, we will explore Dr. Hill’s experiences with self-care, sustainable practice, and the power of creative and embodied healing for both therapists and the families they serve.

Dr. Tequilla Hill's website: https://www.drtequilla.net/

Questions we discussed in this episode:

Your journey from experiencing burnout in community mental health to becoming a leader in integrative MFT training is fascinating. How did your personal discovery of yoga, meditation, and breathwork transform not just your own practice, but your vision for how we should be training marriage and family therapists? What made you realize these weren't just personal wellness tools, but critical for our clinical competency?

You integrate breathwork, nervous system regulation, and body awareness into family therapy training. Can you walk us through how a student learns to use their own somatic responses as clinical information? 

You're in academic leadership, so you're in a unique position to influence how MFT educators think about embodied teaching and supervision. How do you model somatic awareness in faculty meetings, supervision, and program development? What does it look like when academic leadership operates from principles of nervous system regulation and mindful presence?

Traditional MFT training often prioritizes technique mastery and theoretical knowledge. When you introduce breathwork, meditation, and somatic interventions, do you encounter resistance from students or colleagues who see these as 'soft' or non-essential? How do you help people understand that these are rigorous skills, not just wellness add-ons?

Your work centers cultural humility and social justice. How does developing somatic awareness enhance a therapist's cultural responsiveness? Can you give us an example of how breathing techniques or body awareness might help a therapist navigate cultural differences or power dynamics in family therapy sessions?

In your role training supervisors, how do you teach them to use their own regulated nervous systems to help supervisees develop clinical skills? Can you describe what co-regulation looks like in MFT supervision, and how it differs from traditional cognitive-focused supervision approaches?

While your current MFT academic work takes place primarily online, your approach remains deeply embodied. How do you teach breathwork, somatic awareness, and physical presence through virtual platforms? What strategies have you discovered for maintaining the body-based aspects of training in our digital, often asynchronous, environments?

Huge thanks to our sponsor, SimCare AI, for supporting the Learning & Teaching Systemic Therapy podcast. SimCare AI creates lifelike AI clients so counseling and MFT students can practice full-length sessions, get instant feedback, and build competencies at scale, with cases that can align to your specific program rubrics and courses. Learn more or book a demo at SimCare AI. Instructor accounts are free. :)

Today's very special guest is Dr. Kate Owen!

Dr Kate Owen is a Clinical Psychologist and Clinical Family Therapist based in Australia. She runs a private practice supporting individuals, couples, and families, and provides clinical supervision to practitioners, and both government and non-government mental health and counselling teams.

With a passion for integrative systemic psychotherapy, Kate delivers professional development training across Australia, offering workshops on foundational and advanced family therapy skills, trauma-informed practice, and self-care for helping professionals. She consults to hospital and health districts to support the integration of systemic thinking and practice into public mental health services. Kate has presented at both national and international conferences and co-authored a publication on systemic integrative practice in the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy.

She has previously run an accredited family therapy training company that supported professionals in gaining their qualifications as Clinical Family Therapists, and has taught in university settings. Kate is committed to supporting the next generation of clinicians through engaging, reflective, and practice-based learning.

In addition to her in-person work, she creates online courses and practical resources designed to help professionals deepen their skills and confidence in systemic and trauma-informed practice. She is the creator of the Keep Calm Cards, along with a range of other tools developed to support clinical application and reflective practice.

Dr. Kate Owen's website is:

www.drkateowen.com

Dr. Kate Owen's socials:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/drkateowen/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drkateowen

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drkateowen/

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@drkateowen

Some of Dr. Kate Owen's teaching ideas can be viewed here. 

Questions we discussed in this episode:

Your workshop descriptions stress an experiential, interactive teaching style, making “complex theory easy to grasp”. I’d love for you to speak to any specific classroom modalities you rely on to achieve this. For example, do you use role-plays, video demonstrations, small-group exercises or live family therapy demonstrations, and how have these methods helped students link systemic theory to clinical practice in your courses?

Specifically, how do you use metaphors or stories in your workshops to deepen understanding? Could you give us an example?

In your clinical and supervisory work, you have emphasized that systemic therapy is “not about the number of people in the room” and outlined key principles (context, circular causality, systemic alliance) even when working one-on-one. How do you translate those principles into interactive learning? 

In your Systemic Integrative Practice masterclass, you introduce a “meta-framework” to help clinicians adapt their interventions to each client’s unique context. How do you present this advanced concept to practitioners who already know the basic family therapy models? Do you use case studies, process mapping, or visual aids when teaching this framework, and how do you help your learners balance multiple models (systems, narrative, etc.) in a coherent way?

Your teaching integrates trauma-informed and neuroscience-informed approaches. For example, your Working Safely with Families & Trauma workshop weaves together sensorimotor, mindfulness, EFT, and attachment perspectives. How do you help learners make sense of this broad material? 

I would love to know more about your systemic supervision groups.  Specifically, with the shift to online training, how have you adapted your supervision approach, for example, using reflecting teams via Zoom?

You also run training and professional development for schools and those in the Education system. In your educator workshops, what kinds of hands-on resources or activities do you use to teach systemic ideas?