Audrey Tang and Divya Siddarth on Outfitting Democracy for the AI Era
How can we take digitally-empowered democracy straight out of science fiction into reality?
This week, Reid and Aria are joined by two digital democracy pioneers, Audrey Tang and Divya Siddarth. Audrey Tang is a cyber ambassador-at-large and former inaugural Minister of Digital Affairs for Taiwan. Their pioneering initiatives like the Sunflower Movement, g0v, and vTaiwan have fought misinformation and influenced policy decisions. Audrey is also a senior research fellow for the Collective Intelligence Project, co-founded and directed by Divya Siddarth. Divya leads projects worldwide that give voice to the public in building better AI.
Audrey and Divya have spent years investigating how people converge on uncommon ground and how to beat polarization. They discuss the power of collective input and collaboration to create a cycle of collective intelligence. Plus, how AI tools—informed by public input—can enhance governance, digital life, and bring out the best in all of us.
For more info on the podcast and transcripts of all the episodes, visit https://www.possible.fm/podcast/
Topics:
3:07 - Hellos and intros
3:38 - Audrey and Divya's partnership backstory
7:06 - Challenges and surprises with AI in governance
10:19 - What problems do CIP's projects aim to solve?
13:04 - Breakthroughs in collective intelligence
15:08 - Fighting polarization in the age of social media
16:50 - Capitalizing on innate collective intelligence
18:51 - The difference between collective intelligence and democracy
20:33 - Design principles for democracy-forward AI
23:30 - Involving the public in AI model building
26:18 - Midroll
28:32 - Bringing Taiwan's civic wins worldwide
30:41 - Radical transparency in digital tools
35:18 - Why aren't Taiwan's initiatives landing in the U.S.
38:09 - Creating digital twins
39:52 - Reid and Aria's outlook on AI and democracy relations
42:04 - Who would Reid delegate AI centralization to?
45:05 - Rapid-fire
Select mentions:
Plurality by E. Glen Weyl, Audrey Tang, and Community
Global Dialogues — The Collective Intelligence Project
Alignment Assemblies — The Collective Intelligence Project
“Anthem” by Leonard Cohen
A Half Built Garden by Ruthanna Emrys
The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
Terra Ignota series by Ada Palmer
Taiwan’s Digital Minister Knows How to Crush Covid-19: Trust | WIRED
What Could BG Be?
Engaged California
How the Sunflower movement birthed a generation determined to protect Taiwan
Possible is an award-winning podcast that sketches out the brightest version of the future—and what it will take to get there. Most of all, it asks: what if, in the future, everything breaks humanity's way? Tune in for grounded and speculative takes on how technology—and, in particular, AI—is inspiring change and transforming the future. Hosted by Reid Hoffman and Aria Finger, each episode features an interview with an ambitious builder or deep thinker on a topic, from art to geopolitics and from healthcare to education. These conversations also showcase another kind of guest: AI. Each episode seeks to enhance and advance our discussion about what humanity could possibly get right if we leverage technology—and our collective effort—effectively.
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52:16
Reid riffs on the energy arms race and AI addressing climate change
Could the very technology that requires massive amounts of energy to power it also be key to solving the climate crisis? This week, Reid and Aria discuss the global energy arms race and why the U.S. is lagging behind competitors like China. Reid weighs in on the environmental impact and human costs of AI infrastructure, along with mounting tensions between hyperscalers and the communities that host their data centers.
For more info on the podcast and transcripts of all the episodes, visit https://www.possible.fm/podcast/
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16:44
Tony Marx on the Future of Libraries, AI, and Trust
What can public libraries teach us about finding and sharing trustworthy information in the age of AI? How can—and should—AI build upon the technology that is books? This week, Reid and Aria head to the New York Public Library in Manhattan for a conversation with the storied institution’s president and CEO, Tony Marx. They explore the function of libraries in the age of AI, debate the future of work, and discuss what it looks like for civic institutions to embrace transformative technology without sacrificing core values.
For more info on the podcast and transcripts of all the episodes, visit https://www.possible.fm/podcast/
Topics:
2:54 - Hellos and intros
3:23 - Tony’s studies and work in South Africa
5:25 - Taking a job as president of Amherst College
8:43 - Eliminating library fines and fees
9:23 - Visiting the Inwood Library
13:30 - Determining what gets digitized
16:20 - New media
17:42 - AI’s function for libraries
23:08 - Navigating hallucinations
27:57 - AI becoming our epistemology
29:36 - Technological advancements at the NYPL
33:54 - Future of work and human costs of AI
39:41 - Can AI close the educational gap?
42:43 - Trust, reliability, and AI
45:18 - Rapid-fire questions
Select mentions:
Possible | Kim Stanley Robinson on the future of civilization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6OlJbPDpyc
Possible is an award-winning podcast that sketches out the brightest version of the future—and what it will take to get there. Most of all, it asks: what if, in the future, everything breaks humanity's way? Tune in for grounded and speculative takes on how technology—and, in particular, AI—is inspiring change and transforming the future. Hosted by Reid Hoffman and Aria Finger, each episode features an interview with an ambitious builder or deep thinker on a topic, from art to geopolitics and from healthcare to education. These conversations also showcase another kind of guest: AI. Each episode seeks to enhance and advance our discussion about what humanity could possibly get right if we leverage technology—and our collective effort—effectively.
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51:45
Reid riffs on AI adoption, sensitive data, and digital twins
On Part II of last week’s Live Riff, co-hosted with Village Global, Reid fields audience member questions about scale product-market fit, license modeling, data sensitivities, and the future of customer service, along with positive use cases for deepfake technology and the making of Reid AI, his digital twin. He also tells a story from his PayPal days, when Peter Thiel gave him five days to come up with a solution to a problem that was putting money and user trust on the line.
For more info on the podcast and transcripts of all the episodes, visit https://www.possible.fm/podcast/
For Reid and Allie Miller’s agent experiment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeLSq9D65m4
For Reid AI giving Reid’s Perugia speech in multiple languages: https://www.reidhoffman.org/perugia-speech/
For the Masters of Scale episode about building trust featuring Daniel Ek: https://mastersofscale.com/daniel-ek-how-to-build-trust-fast/
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24:21
Reid riffs on acquihires, agents, and new startup norms
What’s the deal with hyperscalers’ recent string of acquisitions betting big on AI talent? When will business schools start requiring classes on managing agents? And how is—and isn’t—AI changing the path to scale and the future of work? Aria asks Reid about all of this and more in a special two-part Riff, recorded for a live audience of AI leaders and founders in New York City in partnership with Village Global in June.
Special thanks to our friends at Village Global for co-hosting this Live Reid Riffs. Tune in next week for Part II of the conversation.
For more info on the podcast and transcripts of all the episodes, visit https://www.possible.fm/podcast/
What if, in the future, everything breaks humanity's way? Possible is an award-winning, weekly podcast that sketches out the brightest version of the future—and what it will take to get there. Hosts Reid Hoffman and Aria Finger explore what’s possible with forward-thinking leaders, deep thinkers, and ambitious builders across many fields, such as technology, art, education and healthcare. These conversations center on the ways technology—and, in particular, AI—is shaping the future. In episodes, AI tools such as OpenAI’s GPT-4 and Inflection’s Pi are at work, offering informational asides, prompting guests, or demoing what they can do. Lastly, between guest episodes, Aria interviews her co-host Reid on his latest takes on what’s possible if we use technology—and our collective effort—effectively.
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