Sounds of SAND

Clinical psychologist and longtime Buddhist meditator Dr. Nicole Wordlaw joins us to talk about her new memoir, Waking Up Alone: Navigating the Narrow Passage Through Master-Slave Narratives. Nicole came to practice to end suffering, and found instead that enlightenment as an arrival, all bliss, all peace, was one more construction of the conditioned mind. The conversation moves through the single pattern she came to see beneath white supremacy, patriarchy, and the harm spiritual teachers do to their students; writing as prayer; pain as a door; and the intergenerational line of women whose voices run through the book. A tender and unflinching conversation about telling the whole story, uprooting the internal oppressor, and the quiet, still voice that always sounds like Love.

Dr. Nicole Wordlaw is a clinical psychologist and longtime practitioner of Buddhist meditation whose work bridges psychology, spirituality, and identity. The daughter of a white mother and a Black father, Dr. Wordlaw brings a deeply personal understanding of belonging and self-discovery to her writing and teaching. A Stanford University graduate with honors and distinction, she went on to earn her Ph.D. in clinical psychology from UC Berkeley. In her forthcoming book Waking Up Alone, she vulnerably shares her story of trauma and awakening, and offers gentle guidance for her readers to tune into the quiet voice of truth within.

Topics

00:00:00 — Introduction

00:01:00 — Coming to Buddhism

00:02:00 — Enlightenment as construction

00:05:00 — Love meeting pain

00:06:00 — One pattern of harm

00:09:00 — Writing as prayer

00:11:00 — A naked story

00:15:00 — Somatic abolitionism

00:19:00 — A long line of women

00:23:00 — Shadow and teacher misconduct

00:24:00 — The Sangha Sutra

00:34:00 — Risking making sense to no one

00:38:00 — The Word Story

00:42:00 — The inner teacher

00:47:00 — Love is not an idea

Resources & Links

Dr. Nicole Wordlaw

Website: nicolewordlaw.com

Waking Up Alone: Navigating the Narrow Passage Through Master-Slave Narratives — out now

Substack

Referenced in the conversation

Sounds of SAND — Somatic Abolitionism: Resmaa Menakem & Gabor Maté

Sounds of SAND — The Architecture of Silence in Spiritual Culture

Steve Hagen — Buddhism Plain and Simple

Nisargadatta Maharaj — I Am That

Contact SAND

podcast@scienceandnonduality.com

Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

Three Kalaallit Inuit women sit with Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo, who met them while filming on their traditional land in Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland). Ikimaliq Pikilak carries the revival of Inuit tattooing, Nuka Alice carries drum dance, and Avianja Rakel Sanimuinaq carries her family's lineage of healing. Together they speak about what colonization severed, what gratitude makes survivable in the Arctic, and Sila, the word that holds weather, breath, and the consciousness connecting all living things. Recorded in June 2025 during the launch week of The Eternal Song, this conversation arrives now to celebrate Sila, the new film from Science and Nonduality featuring all three women, streaming at theeternalsong.org/sila.

Guests

Ikimaliq Pikilak is a Kalaallit tattoo practitioner. Trained in the Western tattoo industry in Denmark, she returned to Greenland and, through the traditionally tattooed mummies of Qilakitsoq, began an eleven-year journey of reclaiming Inuit women's markings: their meanings, their protocols, and their place in healing.

Nuka Alice Lund is a drum dancer and teacher from the west coast of Kalaallit Nunaat. Taught by Paulina, who gathered songs from the elders of East Greenland, she works to normalize the use of Inuit drum dance and its songs, teaching adults and carrying the stories, intentions, and patience the practice asks for.

Avianja Rakel Sanimuinaq is a healer working within her family's ancestral lineage. Her practice spans soul retrieval, putting souls to rest, and the older responsibility of rebalancing relations between people, land, and the spirit world. Of mixed Inuk and Danish parentage, she speaks in the conversation about finding her roots through her ancestors and helping others use her roots to find their own.

Timestamps

00:00 — Introduction: The Eternal Song, the new film Sila, and the July 28–29 live gathering

00:05 — Ikimaliq: the mummies, the gap in memory, and the return of Inuit tattooing

00:07 — What the markings mean: confession, womanhood, gratitude, kinship

00:13 — Nuka Alice: unlearning the colonial narrative, finding the drum at 19

00:19 — Sila: weather, consciousness, the universe we have in common

00:22 — Aviaja: a family of shamans and the responsibility of the angakkoq

00:29 — Trailer: Sila, streaming now at theeternalsong.org/sila

00:31 — Soul sickness, mind sickness, and the body as self-healing land

00:42 — Drum battles: conflict resolution, truth-telling, and lifelong bonds

00:49 — "Start looking in the mirror": finding your own ancestral roots

00:55 — Eyes as pathway to the soul; growing up between Inuk and Danish worlds

01:02 — Loneliness, homesickness of the soul, and dandelion root medicine

Resources & Links

Watch Sila — streaming now

The Eternal Song film series

Sila Live Online Gathering, July 28–29, 2026: two days of conversations with guest speakers and Inuit wisdom keepers

Ikimaliq Pikilak on Instagram

Nuka Alice Lund at Arctic Sounds

Avianja Rakel Sanimuinaq on Instagram

Contact SAND

podcast@scienceandnonduality.com

Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

Restoration ecologist and author Dr. Maceo Carrillo Martinet joins us to talk about his new book Healing the Land Teaches Us Who We Are: How Indigenous Cultural Resistance Can Restore the Earth, Recover Community, and Create Sustainable Futures. Grounded in over two decades of community-based restoration work across New Mexico, Maceo makes the case that the climate solutions we're searching for already exist and are already being practiced by communities around the world. The book is structured around the four elements — water, earth, fire, and air — treating each not as a category but as a relative with something to say. We move through the memory of ancient Pueblo dry-land farming still visible on La Bajada Mesa, the racism embedded in the history of American fire suppression, and the idea that culture and science were never actually separate to begin with. A conversation about returning to first principles, in a time when the polycrisis makes that return feel urgent.

Guest

Dr. Maceo Carrillo Martinet is an award-winning restoration ecologist who has spent over 20 years co-creating community-based restoration and education projects across New Mexico and beyond. Since 2008, he has worked with the Partners for Fish and Wildlife Program, assisting private landowners, tribes, cities, and counties. He holds a PhD in biology from the University of New Mexico with a focus on ecology, freshwater sciences, and environmental education. He teaches a hands-on course at UNM on watershed and community restoration.

Topics

00:00 — Introduction

00:02 — The Rio Grande community tree planting during COVID

00:06 — Wounds as portals: what the pandemic revealed

00:09 — La Bajada Mesa & ancient Pueblo dry-land farming

00:14 — Redefining Indigenous science as communal science

00:20 — The four-element framework of the book

00:23 — Elements as relatives, not categories

00:26 — Wildfires, racism & the history of fire suppression

00:33 — The Oakland Museum's "Good Fire" exhibit

00:37 — Fire as community energy, fire inside us

00:42 — The metacrisis & the land as teacher

00:47 — Closing: no silver bullets, only relationship

Resources & Links

Dr. Maceo Carrillo Martinet

Website: maceocm.com

Healing the Land Teaches Us Who We Are: How Indigenous Cultural Resistance Can Restore the Earth, Recover Community, and Create Sustainable Futures — North Atlantic Books, June 2026

Publisher page & book description at Penguin Random House

Read an excerpt

Referenced in the conversation

Jessica Hernandez — Fresh Banana Leaves

Dr. Lyla June Johnston — Architects of Abundance dissertation

Stephen Pyne — fire historian, ASU

Arundhati Roy — "The pandemic is a portal"

Bioneers Conference

Contact SAND

podcast@scienceandnonduality.com

Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

Global Reverberations of Palestinian Historical Trauma: A SAND Community Gathering with Dr. Samah Jabr, Dr. Gabor Maté & Dr. Jennifer Mullan, facilitated by Dr. Jess Ghannam

Join us for a conversation marking the book launch of Radiance and Pain in Resilience, a powerful collection of essays by Palestinian psychiatrist, psychotherapist, and internationally respected mental health advocate Dr. Samah Jabr.

We are gathering in the midst of genocide. The massive, deliberate traumatization of an entire people, cheered, funded, and shielded from accountability by Western governments, is unfolding in real time. As Israel’s assault on Gaza continues to annihilate bodies, families, and entire lineages, this conversation refuses to look away. It asks what it is to tend to the psyche under conditions of systematic destruction.

Drawing on decades of clinical practice, political analysis, and lived experience under occupation, Dr. Jabr examines the psychological consequences of colonization, displacement, and historical trauma on the Palestinian people. Through personal reflections, case studies, and cultural critique, she challenges dominant Western paradigms of mental health and offers a decolonial, psycho-spiritual framework rooted in dignity, collective care, resistance, and truth.

Proceeds from this conversation go directly to Project Hope Palestine, supporting 500 orphaned children living at Al-Baraka orphan camp in Gaza.

Guests

Dr. Samah Jabr is a psychiatrist practicing in Palestine, serving communities in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. She was formerly Head of the Mental Health Unit within the Palestinian Ministry of Health and is an Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at George Washington University. She is the author of several books including Behind the Frontlines, Sumud, Sumud in Times of Genocide, and most recently Radiance in Pain and Resilience: The Global Reverberations of Palestinian Historical Trauma.

Dr. Gabor Maté is a physician, trauma expert, and bestselling author of The Myth of Normal, In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, and When the Body Says No.

Dr. Jennifer Mullan is a clinical psychologist and the author of the national bestseller Decolonizing Therapy: Oppression, Historical Trauma, and Politicizing Your Practice. She is the founder of Decolonizing Therapy®.

Dr. Jess Ghannam (facilitator) is Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Global Health Sciences at UCSF.

Timestamps

00:00 — Welcome & introductions

00:04 — Dr. Jabr's path into psychiatry and writing

00:06 — Dr. Maté's journey from Zionism to Palestine solidarity

00:10 — Dr. Mullan's path & the political nature of the body

00:17 — Why PTSD doesn't capture the Palestinian experience

00:22 — The DSM, pain, and what diagnosis fails to explain

00:30 — Colonial trauma: cumulative, collective, and intentional

00:33 — Collective healing circles over individual diagnosis

00:39 — Rethinking the role of the mental health worker

00:43 — The colonial roots of Western therapy models

00:50 — Fratricide, domestic violence & the fabricated "lesser nation"

00:55 — Closing reflections: existence as resistance

Resources & Links

Dr. Samah Jabr

Radiance in Pain and Resilience: The Global Reverberations of Palestinian Historical Trauma — Dr. Jabr's book

Decolonial Mental Health Practices: Clinical and Ethical Insights From Palestine — Part 2, four-part course starting Hosted By SAND (Starting July 5, 2026)

Dr. Gabor Maté

The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness, and Healing in a Toxic Culture

Dr. Jennifer Mullan

Decolonizing Therapy: Oppression, Historical Trauma, and Politicizing Your Practice

Center for Decolonizing Therapy®

Support

Project Hope Palestine — supporting 500 orphaned children at Al-Baraka orphan camp in Gaza; proceeds from this event go directly here

Thinkers referenced in the conversation

Frantz Fanon — referenced by Dr. Jabr in her theorization of colonial trauma

Dr. Kenneth Hardy — Black psychologist referenced for the concept of the "assaulted sense of self"

Dr. Na'im Akbar — author of The Psychological Chains of Slavery, referenced by Dr. Mullan

Roberto and Bonnie Duran, Dr. Maria Yellow Horse Brave Heart — referenced for the concept of the "soul wound" and historical trauma

Contact SAND

podcast@scienceandnonduality.com

Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

Daniel Foor returns to Sounds of SAND for a wide-ranging conversation that moves from his own winding spiritual path to the urgent question of why so many spiritual teachers stay silent in the face of injustice. A doctor of psychology, initiated priest in the Yoruba Ifá tradition, and practicing Muslim, Daniel makes the case that animism is the antidote to human supremacy, that Islam is fundamentally a relational and earth-honoring tradition, and that genuine spirituality cannot retreat from the political realities of our time. Along the way, he speaks candidly about ancestral healing, decolonization, the genocide in Gaza, and what it means to become "regular-sized" in a culture built on separation.

Topics

00:00 — Welcome back & reconnecting with SAND

00:01 — Daniel's path: shamanism, psychology & many lineages

00:04 — Animism as the antidote to human supremacy

00:09 — Environmental problems are human behavior problems

00:10 — Is Islam animist? Sufism & the heart of the tradition

00:15 — Relationship is not worship: rethinking animism

00:20 — Giving the more-than-human a seat at the table

00:23 — "Blown-out" lineages & relearning relationship

00:26 — Spiritual responsibility & the silence around Gaza

00:31 — When silence becomes a moral failure

00:34 — The differential valuation of human life

00:38 — What Daniel is building: ancestral & earth ritual trainings

00:42 — Why pre-colonial ancestral connection matters

00:43 — Becoming "regular-sized": the antidote to extreme individualism

00:49 — Right relationship, humility & closing reflections

Resources & Links

Ancestral Medicine — Daniel Foor's website, courses, trainings & practitioner directory


Ancestral & Lineage Healing Course


Practitioner Directory — ancestral healing in 30+ languages, offered remotely with financial accessibility


Ancestral Medicine: Rituals for Personal and Family Healing (book)

SAND Films



Where Olive Trees Weep

The Eternal Song (series of 12 films)



Referenced

Graham Harvey — scholar of the "new animism," referenced in the discussion of relational worldviews

Surah Al-Tin (The Fig) and the animist verses of the Quran — referenced throughout the conversation on Islam as a relational tradition

Contact SAND

podcast@scienceandnonduality.com

Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member