The Curious Bartender Podcast

The Temperley family oversee the Somerset Cider Brandy Company, which became the UK's first independent distillery in living memory when it commenced operations in 1987. Thus, for almost 40 years, the Temperley family have been committed to reviving and preserving England’s traditional apple spirits. They have planted and maintained orchards with over 100 apple varieties, and earned a coveted Protected Geographical Indication for their cider brandy. Matilda handles day‑to‑day operations and looks to the future, while her father Julian draws on decades of craft knowledge and a passion for Somerset’s agricultural heritage.
In this wide‑ranging conversation, we trace the fascinating history of cider brandy in England: how clandestine stills and museum licences paved the way for the Temperleys to become the country’s first licensed craft distillers. We explore the family’s deep connection to their land: planting pear and oak trees for generations yet to come, fostering a "if we don't grow it we don't use it" policy, and championing the unique character of Somerset’s smallholdings. Matilda and Julian explain the strict rules they set to mirror Calvados production, their use of Coffey stills to retain fruit character, and the impact of different casks, from sherry and port to locally coopered Somerset oak.
Along the way we taste through their range, from perfumed eau‑de‑vie to five and ten‑year cider brandys, and the dessert‑style Pomona. We also discuss the romance and pragmatism of running a family farm, and hear how collaborations with whisky makers like Glenfiddich showcase the versatility of cider‑brandy casks. The episode concludes with reflections on the meaning of “craft,” the challenges of taxation and regulation, and what the future holds for Somerset’s apple‑spirit tradition.
00:00 Why Make Cider Brandy? Cider, Heritage, Pride
07:30 Where Does Cider Brandy Fit Into the Cider World
09:15 Origins of Somerset Cider Brandy: Local Tradition, French Tradition
14:22 Licensing a Cider Brandy Distillery in the 1980s - Bertrand Bulmer, Precedent, Customs, Museum Licenses, Protected Geographical Indication (PGI), Changing Regulation
21:20 The Importance of Being a Family Business: Building for Future Generations, Planting Pear Trees
25:00 Tasting Apple Eau de Vie, Apple Varieties & Styles
29:10 Comparing Somerset Cider Brandy to Calvados
31:20 Distillation at Somerset Cider Brandy, Continuous Distillation
36:11 Tasting 10 Year Old Somerset Cider Brandy, Cask Management, Somerset Barrels
47:50 Tasting Alchemy, PX Casks, Evaporative Losses and Bottling Strength
53:00 Tasting 20 Year Old Cider Brandy, Partnering with Glenfiddich
58:00 Tasting Pomona & Kingston Black Aperitif
1:02:15 Why Aren’t There More Cider Brandy Distillers? Pride in Somerset, Politics
1:08:45 Somerset vs Herefordshire, Loss of Orchards
1:12:15 The South West of England Cidermakers’ Association
1:14:00 Can Cider Brandy Become a Bigger Category? Applejack
1:23:45 Glastonbury Festival
1:27:35 Tasting Quince Liqueur, Growing Fruit
1:32:10 The Craft Distillery Movement, Business & Passion, Marketing, 101M Views on Instagram
1:45:45 The Prospect of 30 Year Old Cider brandy*, Apple Blossom, Seasons
1:51:28 New Product Development
1:54:45 Comparing 15 Year Old to 20 Year Old
1:59:00 Tasting 2 Year Old Cider Brandy Aged in Somerset Oak
2:03:15 Balancing Romance & Business
https://somersetciderbrandy.com/📷 Follow me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tristanstephenson/📚 I've written quite a few books on spirits and cocktails - https://www.thecuriousbartender.com/

Henry Jeffreys is a drinks writer and historian. On this episode we talk about how deeply the British Empire shaped the way the world drinks. We start with a simple counterfactual: If the British Empire had never existed, which drinks would look completely different today, or perhaps not exist at all.
Henry reflects on his book Empire of Booze, now nearly ten years old, and why the book has had such a long, slow life. From there, the conversation widens into a broad look at how British tastes, trade networks, and commercial priorities influenced everything from port and Madeira to Marsala, Bordeaux, cognac, rum, and Scotch whisky. Not just where these drinks were sold, but how they were made, fortified, blended, and priced.
We talk about early booze marketing, the rise of Bordeaux as a prestige wine deliberately aimed at London, and the way fortified wines evolved as much in response to consumer demand as to the practical realities of long sea voyages. Marsala’s forgotten golden age, Madeira’s strange modern undervaluation, and the loss of clear drinking rituals around these wines all come into play.
Beyond wine, we dig into empire, alcohol, and power. Why the British seemed compelled to make alcohol wherever they went, rather than simply importing it. How rum functioned as currency, medicine, morale booster, and disciplinary tool in the Royal Navy. And how booze sat at the intersection of curiosity, science, commerce, and conquest in a way that feels distinctly British.
We finish by talking about historical drinking habits, Winston Churchill’s often misunderstood relationship with alcohol, and how modern attitudes to daytime drinking differ sharply from those of the past. It’s a wide-ranging conversation about how history, taste, trade, and alcohol are far more entangled than we usually admit.
00:00 Writing and Promoting Empire of Booze
03:15 If the British Empire Never Existed Which Drinks Would Never Have Existed?
05:45 How the English Established Bordeaux Wine
10:30 The Birth of Cognac: Dutch, English
13:00 Why Fortify Wine? Transport & Taste, Thomas Jefferson
16:15 What is Marsala Wine? History, Production, Brands, Comparison to Sherry
24:45 What’s Up with Madeira Wine?
29:15 Did the British Empire Need Booze to Function? Brokering, Producing, Trading
36:10 The British Navy & Rum
40:10 Was Winston Churchill an Alcoholic? Day Drinking, Beer for Recovery
52:45 Drinking with George Washington: Toasting, Rum, Revolution
57:20 Becoming a Writer
59:03 English Wine: Development, People, Quality
1:06:05 Gin - Craft vs. Classics, Cocktails
1:10:20 Favourite Cocktails, Exploring Flavours of the World
1:16:10 Is Cider England’s Wine?
1:20:47 The Invention of ‘Strong Glass Bottles’
1:24:20 John Mytton - Legendary Drinker and Party Animal
1:26:20 Future Project: Wine & Class⁠
Henry on Substack⁠ 
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📚 I've written ⁠quite a few books⁠ on spirits and cocktails

Tom Dyer is a flair bartender, founder of the World Flair Association, and a bartending educator. Tom rose through the ranks of the flair bartending in the early 2000s and over a fifteen year stretch he won 12 UK championship titles, 2 World Championship titles and over 80 international flair bartending competitions across the globe. 
Unlike many of his contemporaries Tom has remained one of the leading figures in the flair community to this day, so is uniquely positioned to comment on the history and current status of this often misunderstood side of bartending. Tom has recently co-written the Flair Bartending book, which chronicles in great detail the story of flair going back almost 400 years!
On the episode we discuss the history of flair, from the early days of TGI Fridays, through to the movie Cocktail, and into flair competitions, the so-called 'golden age' of flair in the noughts, right up to present day stars of flair. We also touch on the evolution of flair, discussing craft flair, bar magic, and much more.This was such a fun conversation and Tom is genuinely the best ambassador for flair bartending that I can imagine.
⁠The Flair Bartending Book is available here⁠
*DISCOUNTS ON STUFF I LOVE*
☕ The best coffee liqueur from Algebra - use discount code CURIOUS15 for 15% off in ⁠their web shop⁠.
🍷 Get 15% off the world's best drinking vessels at Denver & Liely using ⁠this link ⁠
00:00 Documenting the History of Flair Bartending
04:20 *What it Takes to Become a World Class Flair Bartender
07:10 How Flair Competitions Work - IBA, FBA, WFA - Competition Structure, What Its Like Competing in a Flair Final, How Competitions Have Evolved
15:35 The Flair Bartending Book
18:24 The Origins of Flair Bartending - Jan Steen, Jerry Thomas, Japanese Flair
20:47 John Mescall - The First Modern Flair Bartender, TGI Friday’s
21:40 Cocktail Movie - Tom Cruise, John Bandy
25:40 The First Flair Competition - Bartender Olympics26:37 Regional Distinctions Between Flair: US vs European, Lee Miller & Bottle/Tin
31:25 Working in Flair: Bennigan’s, TGI’s, Ray Blade, Everyone’s a Flair Bartender
36:00 Craft Flair: Marian Beke, 5-Star Flair
40:30 Flair During a Bar Shift 
45:10 Bar Magic, Dickens
50:07 The Golden Era of Flair - Nicholas Saint Jean, Christian Delpeche, Tom Dyer, Neil Lowey
59:15 Flair in Las Vegas in 2004: Mindaugas Gradeckas
1:01:35 Tom Dyer Flair: Bottle Tin Is King
1:02:35 Legendary Flair Bars, Opening a Flair Bar Today - Pressure, Failure
1:08:20 Social Media: Flair Education, Entertainment, Exposure
1:12:52 The Difficulty of Originality
1:15:00 Physical Punishment of Flair Bartending
1:17:42 Current Flair Competitions: Arctic Flair, Las Vegas, Food Town Flair, Legends World Flair
1:19:42 Who are The Current Best Flair Bartenders in the World? Who are the Best of All Time?
1:22:50 Learnings from Writing the Book
📷 Follow me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tristanstephenson/
📚 I've written quite a few books on spirits and cocktails - https://www.thecuriousbartender.com/

Sunny Hodge is an author, bar owner, and wine educator. He is the founder of two London wine bars: Diogenes The Dog and Aspen & Meursault. Sunny recently published his first book 'A Cynics Guide to Wine', which takes a refreshingly scientific approach to exploring the viniculture and wine making and shatters a few romantic notions in the process.
On the episode we delve deep into the science of roots, soil, minerals, and nutrients, exploring how soil impacts the health of vines and the flavour of grapes. This takes us right down to the atomic level, through plant biology, and into the drink in the glass. We also discuss rootstocks and how they impact viniculture and wine, delve into other drink categories such as agave spirits, discuss the importance of telling (true) stores, and linger on wine service and education.
This one gets very technical at times, but hopefully there's enough there to begin to get to grips with what is happening underground. Be sure to check out Sunny's book for more!
https://www.diogenesthedog.co.uk
https://www.baraspen.co.uk
Get 15% off the world's best drinking vessels at Denver & Liely using the discount code CURIOUS15 or clicking this link.
00:00 Why Are Cynics Important? Diogenes The Dog
04:35 Being Cynical about Terroir - Defining Terroir
18:00 VERY TECHNICAL: Does Soil Matter for Growing Grapes? Soil Composition, Roots, Rain, Minerals, Nutrients, Water Chemistry, Cations & Anions
41:45 Potassium, Tartrate Crystals & Cold Stabilisation
44:35 The Right Amount of Nutrients - Green Growth and Fruit Optimisation
48:30 Killing The Romance: Education, WSET, Inertia to Change
1:00:10 Does Dust and Dust Flavour Wine? Natural Fermentation
1:04:30 Rootstocks, Grape Species, Phylloxera 
1:10:20 Updating Education & Stories
1:19:10 Terroir in Agave Spirits: Ocho, Atanasio
1:21:30 Biological Terroir and Pesticides & Herbicides 
1:27:20 Sunny’s Wine Bars: Diogenes The Dog, Wine Service, Demystifying Spirits & Wine

Peter Dorelli has worked in UK hospitality for 65 years, having moved from Rome in the 1950's when he was 18. He is best known as the sixth head bartender of the American Bar at the Savoy (arguably the top bar job in the world) where he worked for over two decades. Despite his 'retirement' in 2003, Peter is still a regular feature on the London and international bar scene, serving as a judge for World Class and often seen at parties with his partner in crime, Salvatore Calabrese (who has also been on the show).On the episode Peter shares stories from his early years as an illegal immigrant in the UK, which include drinking competitions with Scottish trawler men, how a surprise fire burnt down the hotel he was working at in Leamington, and what it was like working under the legendary Joe Gilmore at the Savoy. We also get into a bit of a debate about whether bartenders should taste drinks before serving them. It was a great pleasure to interview Peter and I'm grateful to him for lending his time to the show.If you like these conversations, please consider subscribing, liking it, and sharing with other people who will like it too. This genuinely helps grow and support the show, and will allow me to continue recording conversations with people like Peter.00:00 The Last of the Dinosaurs - How Has Bartending Changed? The Cycle of Classic Cocktails, Creating Stories07:45 Has Bartending Lost Some of its Romance? Ambition and Pace of Younger Bartenders, Knowledgee Acquisition 14:20 Peter’s Early Career - Arriving in UK, Pendower Hotel, Becoming a bartender27:00 Becoming a Fugitive, Challenging a Scottish Trawler Man to a Drinking Competition* 40:35 Burnt Down Hotels in Leamington & Becoming a Butler, Going Legal53:00 Stones Restaurant, Pebbles Bar: Roger Moore, Alec Guinness1:02:55 The American Bar & Joe Gilmore: Art of Hospitality, Becoming a Master1:15:50 The American Bar in the 1980’s: Team, Operations, Cocktails, Savoy Cocktail Book, Harry Craddock & Ada Coleman, Being a Custodian, Peter’s Style1:34:30 DEBATE: Is it Necessary to Taste Every Drink Before Serving?1:47:40 The UKBG: Founding and Function1:51:20 Cocktail Competitions, Ego, Lessons Learned: Shoes2:00:00 Retiring & Closure of the Savoy (2004 - 2010), American Bar Stories, Death

Spotify not accepting videos from me for some reason - video version of this podcast is available on YouTube along with images to illustrate some of Peter's stories.📷 Follow me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tristanstephenson/📚 I've written quite a few books on spirits and cocktails - https://www.thecuriousbartender.com/