The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan

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Robert P. George is a legal scholar and political philosopher. At Princetown, he’s the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence and the director of the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. He’s also a senior fellow at both the American Enterprise Institute and the Witherspoon Institute, which he co-founded. His many books include Making Men Moral and In Defense of Natural Law. We spent many years sparring in print over marriage, gays, and Catholicism.
For two clips of the episode — on disobeying unjust laws, and the supposed harms of gay marriage — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: his dad’s harrowing service in WWII; Robby growing up in Appalachia with his grandfathers in the coal mines; first in his family to go to college; stories of both of us being at Oxford at the same time; the origins of bluegrass; Robert Byrd’s legacy; Plato’s Gorgias; Aristotle and friendship; Robby’s close friendship with Cornel West; Montaigne; Aquinas; Vatican II; Eastern Orthodox liturgy; neo-scholasticism; Darwin’s survival of the fittest; Nietzsche; loving one’s enemy as uniquely Christian; just law and unjust law; MLK’s letter from a Birmingham jail; Hume; Oakeshott; natural law theorists vs legal positivists; the AIDS crisis; Christian marriage vs civil marriage; divorce; the Manhattan Declaration; Henry VIII’s annulments; the sexual habits of Clinton and Trump; illiberalism on the left and right; and the beached squids of Ptown.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Ross Barkan on the DSA and Mamdani, John O’Sullivan on conservatism, Azam Ahmed on terrifying new drugs, and Megan McArdle on pretty much anything. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com

David is a historian and perhaps the greatest living film critic. He’s the author of more than 20 books, including biographies of David O. Selznick and Orson Welles, and The New Biographical Dictionary of Film. His new book is called A Sudden Flicker of Light: A Revisionist History of Movies. It’s a wonderful extended rant in some ways, a love letter and a searing indictment of cinema. I was a little intimidated talking with him, but it was a lot of fun.
For two clips of the episode — on the uptight genius of Hitchcock, and the authoritarian nature of cinema — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: born in South London in 1941 and his home damaged by the Blitz; his father leaving when he was born; his boyish mix of fear and delight at the cinema; the shower scene in Psycho; how film denies you the chance to stop and think; the directors who relish white space (e.g. PT Anderson); Birth of a Nation and Triumph of the Will; newsreels before TV; real nuke explosions on screen; Oppenheimer; from communal theater viewing to solo smartphone viewing; Game of Thrones and the insane production value of TV these days; Breaking Bad; Trump the ultimate product of TV; his telegenic Cabinet; the danger of deepfakes; Paul Schrader’s First Reformed; the audience’s love of car crashes and villains; Godfather I and II; contrasting Hitchcock and Malick; Tree of Life; nature in Thin Red Line; Fincher’s Seven; Robert Bresson’s religious films; Scorsese’s Silence and Last Temptation of Christ; the vulgarity of Spielberg (e.g. the red dress in Schindler’s List); ep. 3 of Adolescence; and Nolan’s new Odyssey.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: John O’Sullivan on conservatism, Azam Ahmed on terrifying new drugs, Robby George on natural law, and Megan McArdle on pretty much anything. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com

Stephen is a psychoanalyst and author. He used to teach clinical technique at the Institute of Psychoanalysis, and also psychoanalytic theory at University College London. He’s the author of The Examined Life: How We Lose and Find Ourselves, and his latest book is Love’s Labor: How We Break and Make the Bonds of Love.
For two clips of the episode — on what psychoanalysis is really for, and the benefits of friendship vs romantic love — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: born in Gary, Indiana; his birth defect requiring many surgeries; his Jewish family emigrating from Eastern Europe; college at Berkeley and Oxford; arrested at the Chicago Dem convention; befriending Anna Freud; Sigmund and his studies in hysteria; loneliness in adolescence; how falling in love is very different than love; my own psychoanalyst of 25 years; trauma from my childhood; the losses that marriage entails; breakthroughs after breakdowns; detaching from the idea of yourself; legal marriages vs psychological ones; falling back into trauma because it’s familiar; the power of love’s precarity; victimology; Philip Roth’s “the ecstasy of sanctimony”; lessons from Othello; surrender vs submission; Esther Perel’s Mating in Captivity; seeking traits in a partner that mirror a dysfunctional parent; how sex is different for men and women; gay promiscuity; male-male marriages lasting the longest; HIV and the threat of deportation; dating with HIV in the ‘90s; and how to be a better listener.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: David Thomson on cinema in US history and culture, John O’Sullivan on conservatism, Robby George on natural law, and Megan McArdle on pretty much anything. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com

John is a political philosopher. He retired from academia in 2007 as Professor of European Thought at the London School of Economics, and he’s now a regular contributor and lead reviewer at the New Statesman. He’s the author of two dozen books, and the most recent is The New Leviathans: Thoughts After Liberalism, which we discussed on the Dishcast last year (after first having him on the pod in 2023).
For two clips of the episode — on what the Founders would think of the 250th, and sizing up the next prime minister of the UK — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: the deadly heatwave in Europe and its lack of AC; the Putin-esque corruption of Trump; the Joker-esque nature of US politics; civic exhaustion; our broken trust with the rest of the world; losing the Iran War; the stranglehold of Hormuz; fears over the Strait of Malacca; the JCPOA; Fukuyama; edge-lording and DOGE; the embarrassment of Trump’s 250; his plunge in the polls; the socialist wins in NYC; DEI collectivism; Vance’s Catholicism; Rubio’s future; Tucker 2028; the collapse of free speech in higher ed; Keir’s departure; Andy Burnham’s rise; his neo-Blairite populism; Farage and Reform; Restore Britain; Kemi Badenoch; Scott Wiener hounded by transqueers; masks used by ICE and activists; the surge of antisemitism on the left and right; the Le Pen and Bardella factions; AfD; the EU becoming more right-wing; mass migration and Boris; the Swedish crackdown; Islamism; Meloni becoming a centrist; Putin and Ukraine; the drone revolution and Taiwan; the hope of Ossoff; and the World Cup.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Stephen Grosz on the struggles of love, David Thomson on cinema in American history and culture, John O’Sullivan on conservatism, Robby George on natural law, and Megan McArdle on pretty much anything. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com

Bob is a journalist and the author of many books, including The Moral Animal, Nonzero, The Evolution of God, and Why Buddhism Is True. He’s written for countless magazines, including The New Republic, where he co-wrote the TRB column with Mickey Kaus. They also co-founded Bloggingheads TV, and Bob taught in the psych department at Penn and the religion department at Princeton. Today you can find him on Substack at the NonZero Newsletter, and his new book is The God Test: Artificial Intelligence and Our Coming Cosmic Reckoning.
For two clips of the episode — how AI flatters its users, and the rapidly converging threats from AI — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: Bob’s reporting on AI in the early 1980s; Geoffrey Hinton — “the godfather of AI” — warning us about AI; “doomer-in-chief” Eliezer Yudkowsky; Bob’s own evolution on AI; the Tree of Knowledge; how AI is a more challenging global issue than nukes; the need for international regulation; the noosphere, our “global brain” — and its author, the visionary Christian, Teilhard de Chardin; neural networks; ChatGPT; Musk and self-driving cars; BF Skinner; philosopher John Searle; olfactory AI; virtual reality; AI designing drugs to induce spirituality; Anthropic’s Dario Amodei; Sam Altman calling Trump an NPC; AI stoking conspiracies; Leo’s encyclical; cognitive empathy; the Iran War; China vs Taiwan; kids befriending AI agents; Hal in 2001; the movie Her; silicon neurons that evolve; AI threatening the human need to be needed; job losses; scams; electoral risks; populism and tribalism; how is AI a continuation of human evolution; and the many positive potentials of AI.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: John Gray on Trump’s new world, Stephen Grosz on the struggles of love, David Thomson on cinema history, John O’Sullivan on conservatism, Robby George on all our disagreements, and Megan McArdle on pretty much anything. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.