The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com

Jeff is a lawyer and a contributing opinion writer for the NYT, after a long run at The New Yorker and CNN. He has written many bestselling books, including True Crimes and Misdemeanors, The Oath, The Nine, and Too Close to Call. He appeared on the Dishcast in 2024 to talk lawfare, and in this episode we discuss his latest book, The Pardon: The Politics of Presidential Mercy.
We recorded this episode a while back, and we’re posting it this week after Trump promised mass pardons for White House staffers before he leaves office. For two clips of our convo — on Biden’s corrupt pardons, and Trump’s obscene pardons — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: how pardons can be a beautiful act of mercy; the varying powers among the states; Lincoln’s amnesty for Confederate soldiers but not leaders; Andrew Johnson’s pardon for Jefferson Davis; Johnson’s impeachment; the thousand pardons of Rutherford B Hayes; Ford pardoning Nixon; Jimmy Carter pardoning resisters to the Vietnam War; the Willie Horton furlough and ad; HW’s pardons for Iran-Contra; Clinton pardoning his own brother and Marc Rich; Dubya’s refusal to pardon Scooter Libby against Cheney’s wishes; Dubya advising Obama to have a set protocol; Trump pardoning crooks like Charles Kushner and Paul Manafort who could have testified against him; the blanket pardon of January 6ers; Kim Kardashian’s role in Trump’s pardons; the ICE killings in Minneapolis; and the need for presidents with some basic virtue.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Greg Lukianoff on free-speech fights, Jerusalem Demsas on the state of the left, Tiffany Jenkins on privacy in a liberal democracy, Adrian Wooldridge on “the lost genius of liberalism,” HW Brands on the life of George Washington, Ben Rhodes on foreign policy, and Tom Junod on his dad and masculinity. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to [email protected].

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com

Derek Thompson is a long-time writer at The Atlantic. His books include Hit Makers, On Work, and Abundance, which he co-wrote with Ezra Klein. Derek also has an excellent substack and hosts a podcast called “Plain English.”
This episode was recorded on March 17. For two clips — on the impact of Abundance, and the difference between being alone and anti-social — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: growing up near DC; theater his first love; the two of us trading stories of stage acting; pursuing journalism after 9/11; how writing has evolved in the 21st century; conspiracy theories online; AI creating doubt; strategizing the Abundance book; Virtually Normal; books as totems; blue vs red city governance; housing deregulation; “procedural fetish” vs Trumpian chaos; government spurring innovation; Derek’s piece “The Anti-Social Century”; OnlyFans; looking at smartphones in a gay bar; Kierkegaard; Camus; tradition as a ballast; meaning through limits; fatherhood; Hegseth reveling in dominance; Nietzsche; the tribalism of early humans; wokeness and the Trump cult; liquid modernity; consumerism replacing meaning; the fertility crisis; the growing dominance of Orthodox Jews in Israel; and Oakeshott and infinite games of non-winning.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Jeffrey Toobin on the pardon power, Tiffany Jenkins on privacy in a liberal democracy, Adrian Wooldridge on “the lost genius of liberalism,” HW Brands on the life of George Washington; Greg Lukianoff on free speech, and Tom Junod on his memoir and masculinity. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to [email protected].

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com

Tom is a historian, translator, and podcaster. He hosts with Dominic Sandbrook the most downloaded history pod in the world, “The Rest Is History.” He’s the author of many books, including the two we discussed this week: Rubicon: The Triumph and Tragedy of the Roman Republic, and Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World. Those two erudite, beautifully written books made a huge impact on me.
For two clips of our convo — on the paradoxical power of Christ’s crucifixion, and the Christian roots of “secular” — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: growing up in Oxford and near Stonehenge; dinosaurs his first passion; how the past is more interesting than the present; Pontius Pilate; Cato; Caesar in Gaul and conquering Rome; Hegseth reveling in death; the war prayer at the Resolute Desk; Trump’s pre-Christian values; Socrates; Paul the Apostle; turning the other cheek; agape; Christ’s silence and withdrawal; logos; the Gospels; the Gnostic Gospels; the Book of Revelation; Exodus and Israel; martyred Christians in the arena; Augustine; the emergence of Islam; the Koran as the literal word of Allah; the Crusades; Pope Gregory VII making the Church sovereign; Machiavelli and mastering the secular; the Reformation; toppling idols; Nietzsche and the death of God; Marx; the Sexual Revolution; #MeToo; Dawkins and the New Atheists; the religion of wokeness; racism as a collective sin; Michael Pollan and “All You Need Is Love”; Fleming Rutledge’s The Crucifixion; the awe of cathedrals; and the new wave of cultural Christianity.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Jeffrey Toobin on the pardon power, Derek Thompson on abundance, Tiffany Jenkins on privacy in a liberal democracy, Adrian Wooldridge on “the lost genius of liberalism,” Greg Lukianoff on free speech, and Tom Junod on his memoir and masculinity. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to [email protected].

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com

Jonah is a journalist, author, and podcaster. He spent two decades at National Review before joining The Dispatch, where he writes the G-File and hosts the Remnant podcast. He’s also a columnist for the LA Times, a commentator for CNN, and a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. He’s the author of Liberal Fascism, The Tyranny of Clichés, and Suicide of the West.
For two clips of our convo — on how Oakeshott is needed more than ever, and how dogs make us more human — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: growing up on the UWS; his legendary mom and her role in the Lewinsky saga; his dad who discovered Dilbert; joining the first co-ed class at Goucher; Clinton’s poor character; the Drudge Report; the Starr report; Mike Kinsley starting Slate; launching the G-File as one of the first blogs; the heterogeneity of The Corner; Mickey Kaus; Breitbart; the power of the hyperlink; Twitter killing the blogosphere; why democratizing the parties was a big mistake; the Iraq War; Liberal Fascism and the administrative state; FDR; Vought and DOGE and performative vandalism; the Biden and Boris betrayals on immigration; oikophobia; the Israel lobby and the gay lobby; Netanyahu’s f**k-yous to Obama; the war for oil in Venezuela; Hegseth’s “no quarter”; Trump’s response to Mueller’s death; weaponizing the DOJ; how the Trump and Obama cults differed; Saul Alinsky; David French and free speech; the debt crisis; the religious right; Bill Bennett’s hypocrisy; and how Trump talks about dogs.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Jeffrey Toobin on the pardon power, Derek Thompson on abundance, Tom Holland on the Christian roots of liberalism, Tiffany Jenkins on privacy in a liberal democracy, Adrian Wooldridge on “the lost genius of liberalism,” Greg Lukianoff on free speech, and Tom Junod on his memoir and masculinity. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to [email protected].

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com

Matt is an author, pollster, campaigner, and policy advisor. He recently ran for Parliament as a Reform candidate and came in second. He’s also a presenter at GB News and a writer on Substack. He’s the author of many books, including National Populism and Values, Voice and Virtue, and his new book is Suicide of a Nation: Immigration, Islam, Identity.
For two clips of our convo — on the flood of non-white migrants to the UK, and how accusations of racism shape the migration debate — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: born in Hertfordshire to working-class parents who divorced young and worked for the NHS; addiction in the family; his terrible time at an all-boys school; the first in his family to go to college; Burke and Oakeshott; a semester abroad in downtown Detroit; the losers of globalization; being a conservative in academia; thehounding of Kathleen Stock; Douglas Murray; Charles Murray; the falling popularity of liberal democracy; David Cameron; the migration crisis; Brexit; the Red Wall swinging to the right; Nigel Farage and Euroskepticism; plunging fertility rates; Roger Scruton; Lasch and Burnham; the betrayal of Boris on migration; the rapid influx of Muslims to the UK; assimilation in the US; the disappearance of a shared national memory; the illiberalism of Islamic Brits; same-sex marriage; wokeness; anti-speech laws in the UK; the Iraq War; and the new war in Iran.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Jonah Goldberg on the state of conservatism, Jeffrey Toobin on the pardon power, Derek Thompson on abundance, Tom Holland on the Christian roots of liberalism, Tiffany Jenkins on privacy in a liberal democracy, Adrian Wooldridge on “the lost genius of liberalism,” and Tom Junod on his memoir and masculinity. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to [email protected].