The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan

In our last summer-break podcast two-fer, we’re re-running two very different conversations on sex and race, with two very different characters: Louise Perry and Glenn Loury. Next Friday we’ll be back with fresh Dish as the new season of Dishness kicks off after Labor Day with some great guests lined up for the fall.
We’ll also be introducing Weekly Dish 3.0! Stay tuned.
Louise is a writer and campaigner against sexual violence. She co-founded a non-partisan, feminist think tank called The Other Half, and she’s currently a WSJ columnist and the host of the Maiden Mother Matriarch podcast. In this 2022 episode, we discussed her book The Case Against the Sexual Revolution: A New Guide to Sex in the 21st Century.
A polished transcript is here. You can find two clips on YouTube: on whether Louise finds it suitable to watch porn while married, and if gay promiscuity is more harmful than straight promiscuity.
See you next Friday.


This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com/subscribe

In our last summer-break podcast two-fer, we’re re-running two very different conversations on sex and race, with two very different characters: Glenn Loury and Louise Perry. Next Friday we’ll be back with fresh Dish as the new season of Dishness kicks off after Labor Day with some great guests lined up for the fall.
We’ll also be introducing Weekly Dish 3.0! Stay tuned.
Glenn is an academic, writer, and podcaster. At the age of 33, he became the first African-American professor of economics at Harvard to get tenure. He’s currently the Merton P. Stoltz Professor of Economics at Brown University, a columnist for UnHerd, and co-host of The Glenn Show, alongside John McWhorter. In this early 2023 episode, we talked about Glenn’s incredibly colorful life, and he subsequently published his memoir, Late Admissions: Confessions of a Black Conservative. So in this conversation we got a preview of the book: the product of a remarkable American life.
Read a polished transcript here. You can hear two clips on YouTube — how the insistence on the permanence of “white supremacy” hurts African-Americans, and how we are all “hypocrites” to some extent. Other topics covered: Glenn’s parents dealing with him as a prodigy; dropping out of college with a newborn; rebounding to MIT and Harvard; being ostracized by the black cognoscenti; his drug addiction; his conversion to Christianity; his loss of faith; falling out with the neocon right; the racial wealth gap; and affirmative action.
See you next Friday.


This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com/subscribe

(The full Dish returns on September 4. In the meantime, we are re-airing a handful of the most downloaded episodes from the early years of the Dishcast.)
Charles is a writer, social scientist, and longtime friend. He currently holds the F.A. Hayek Chair Emeritus in Cultural Studies at AIE, and his many books include Losing Ground, The Bell Curve (co-authored with Richard Herrnstein), Coming Apart, Facing Reality, and Taking Religion Seriously (which we covered last year). In this May 2021 pod, he and I discussed Human Diversity — a book that received little attention compared to the others. If you think you know who Charles is from the way the MSM has portrayed him for years, this conversation may surprise you.
Like Cornel West, Charles is a one-off: absurdly brave (or dumb) in wading into truly touchy subjects, and always with reason. In many ways, I think if we’d been able to have a serious debate about The Bell Curve all those years ago — and I tried to encourage one — we might have avoided some awful subsequent mistakes. But we resorted to abuse and hysteria and went on to enact Woke 1.0 and, now, Woke 2.0.
Go here for a polished transcript of Charles. We also have three clips on YouTube: on the different career choices of high IQ women; the “unearned gift” of a high IQ; and IQ’s irrelevance to the human worth, dignity, and essential equality of all people.


This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com/subscribe

(The full Dish returns on September 4. In the meantime, we are re-airing a handful of the most downloaded episodes from the early years of the Dishcast.)
The academic career of Cornel West is long and storied. He has taught religion, philosophy, and African-American studies at Yale, Princeton, Harvard, and Union Theological Seminary. He has written or contributed to more than 20 books, including Race Matters and Democracy Matters — but he recommends you start with Chekhov.
I met Cornel decades ago, when I interviewed him at Union Theological Seminary for a TNR piece I was writing on divinity schools. He has long fascinated me, and Race Matters had a real impact on me decades ago. Erudite, passionate, and deeply humane, he is an unapologetically leftist Christian who is also a champion of free speech, civility, and the classics. In other words: a rare and beautiful man.
A key theme of the Dishcast is a willingness to talk to anyone across the political and ideological spectrum. We thought it would be cool if we re-aired this episode alongside that with Charles Murray, a philosophical opposite, but also a deeply decent man.
Go here for a polished transcript of Cornel. We also have two clips on YouTube: on how he finds common ground with bigots and racists, and his take on CRT and the 1619 Project.


This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com/subscribe

(The full Dish returns on September 4. In the meantime, we are re-airing a handful of the most downloaded episodes from the early years of the Dishcast.)
In addition to the Middle East, another topic that has generated a lot of heat on the Dish since 2020 is the issue of the gender revolution and the TQ+ movement. So here are two perspectives from an early pod — that shows again how we at the Dish have genuinely sought the truth in this area, have listened to all sides, and aired all the arguments. Almost no other place does this anymore. Which is why we’re so grateful for your support and subscriptions.
Buck Angel was a pioneering porn star — the only trans man to ever win Transsexual Performer of the Year at the AVN Awards — and today he’s a sex educator, motivational speaker, and entrepreneur. Helena Kerschner is a young woman who lived as a man on hormone therapy for several years before detransitioning. Buck’s transition saved his life, while Helena’s transition was a bit of a calamity, but they share a resistance to the dogma of the trans activist community and speak forcefully and elegantly against it.
Go here for a polished transcript. Four clips on YouTube are also available: on the cult-like behavior of many trans activists; on the risks of puberty blockers; on the profound effects of testosterone; on how the hormone caused Buck, a former lesbian, to become attracted to men for the first time.
This episode is part of an ongoing series on the lives of transgender people and the debates surrounding one of the most polarizing subjects of today, especially when it comes to kids transitioning. Our previous episodes welcomed three happily transitioned and brilliant women — Dana Beyer, Mara Keisling, Brianna Wu — along with a remarkable trans man, Shannon Minter. All of them pushed back against my views, and we agreed on a lot as well.


This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com/subscribe