The Human Risk Podcast

• Sarah Aalborg on Secure by Choice

  What do people have to do with cybersecurity?  A lot. As with other fields of human risk, it’s people that are typically the root cause of problems in the cybersecurity world.  Which is where my guest’s expertise in behavioural design comes into play.On this episode, I’m speaking with Sarah Aalborg, a cybersecurity and behavioural design expert who’s on a mission to change how organisations approach IT security.Rather than focusing on firewalls and tech solutions, Sarah examines the human behaviours that can undermine even the best-designed security systems.Her new book, Secure by Choice, challenges conventional security thinking by exploring how cognitive biases affect security professionals and how to use behavioural design to reshape security culture. We discuss the pitfalls of traditional security training – particularly those phishing tests that feel more like traps than training – and how to flip the script by focusing on what we want people to do rather than what we want them to avoid.Sarah shares practical strategies for using positive reinforcement, creating engaging training experiences, and making security less about fear and more about action. By applying principles of behavioural science and risk-based thinking, Sarah explains how we can bridge the gap between security policies and everyday human behaviour. Guest BiographySarah Aalborg is a cybersecurity expert and behavioural design advocate, focusing on how cognitive biases impact IT security professionals and their decision-making processes. She is the author of Secure by Choice, a book that challenges conventional approaches to cybersecurity training by applying principles of behavioural science to security culture. With a background in IT security spanning over two decades, Sarah speaks at major security events and consults with organisations on how to create more effective, engaging, and human-centric security programs. AI-Generated Timestamped Summary[00:00:00] Introduction [00:01:00] Meet Sarah Aalborg – Why she wrote Secure by Choice and her journey into behavioural design.[00:03:00] The '20-centimetre above the keyboard' exercise – How human inaction impacts tech security.[00:05:00] Why phishing tests feel like entrapment – and how to flip the script.[00:08:00] Turning phishing tests into positive reinforcement opportunities. [00:10:00] How a simple 'Report Suspicious Email' button can change behaviours.[00:12:00] The problem with fear-based messaging in cybersecurity.[00:14:00] Why telling people what NOT to do isn’t effective. [00:15:00] Sarah’s four-step framework for creating risk-aware security cultures. [00:17:00] Why most security training is designed to address the wrong problem. [00:20:00] The McDonald's kiosk example – What we can learn from other industries.[00:25:00] The importance of actionable examples in security training.[00:30:00] The generative AI paradox – When tech meets human bias. [00:35:00] Why AI is the ultimate behavioural science challenge. [00:40:00] The 'Operating System' analogy – Why the human brain is still running Stone Age software.[00:50:00] Why cyber professionals need to look outside their own industry for inspiration.[00:55:00] The role of curiosity and exploration in designing effective security programs. Links:Sarah’s website: https://securebychoice.com/Sarah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-aalborg-bb348a1/Secure by Choice:https://securityblendbooks.com/products/secure-by-choice?

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  1:04:23
• Human Risk: Behind The Scenes

  What really happens Behind The Scenes at Human Risk? 📝 Episode SummaryIn this special ‘takeover’ episode of the show, I’m taking you behind the scenes of my work at Human Risk. Because interviewing myself would be odd, friend of the show Sarah Abramson takes the interviewer’s seat. She delves into my journey, exploring the intersections of curiosity, compliance, and creativity that have shaped my career. We discuss the origins of my interest in human behaviour, the evolution of the Human Risk brand, and how blending personal experiences with professional insights can lead to more authentic and engaging content. I reflect on the challenges and rewards of building a brand that aligns closely with one's identity, the importance of storytelling, the role of improvisation in presentations, and the value of staying curious. I also talk about the show, why I started it, and the principles behind it. 👤 Guest BiographyChristian Hunt is the host of the show and the founder of Human Risk Ltd, a behavioural Science-led consultancy and training firm. Guest host Sarah Abramson is a marketing and communications professional with a passion for storytelling and human-centred design. She is the Head of Marketing at Acteon, a communication and learning agency based in Cambridge. Sarah also organises ‘Speak to the Human’ an annual event, which focuses on effective communication strategies in organisations. Her work emphasises the importance of understanding human behaviour to drive meaningful change. ⏱️ AI-Generated Timestamped Summary[00:00:00] Sarah introduces the episode and takes over hosting duties [00:02:00] Christian shares how his curiosity about human behaviour began in childhood [00:04:00] Why irrational behaviour fascinates him and how literature shaped his thinking [00:06:00] From regulation to behavioural science — realising compliance needed a human lens [00:12:00] Christian explains why Human Risk is really a “C2C” business, not B2B [00:15:00] The three types of clients who engage him and why middle-ground organisations don’t [00:21:00] The Twitter account mix-up that made Christian realise the brand is him [00:27:00] Christian describes his creative process and taking inspiration from odd places [00:32:00] Why performance matters in speaking — and why he refuses to send slides early [00:38:00] On using virtual presentation tools to create better audience experiences [00:43:00] Why rinse-and-repeat keynotes don’t work — what live shows can learn from comedians [00:56:00] Using personality and humour to engage on social media and at conferences [01:03:00] Christian explains how podcasting fits his personal and professional goals [01:24:00] Advising clients: letting them be the hero and respecting their resistance [01:26:00] The psychology of change and why agency matters [01:28:00] What excites Christian about AI — especially human responses to it [01:30:00] Wrap-up and final thoughts 🔗 Relevant Links & Podcast Episodes Acteon Communications: https://www.acteoncommunication.com/ Human Risk pod Sarah Abramson on Speaking to The Human 🎧 👉  https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/sarah-abramson-on-speaking-to-the-human/ Hannah Williams on the Art of Live Scribing 🎧 👉  https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/hannah-williams-on-the-art-of-live-scribing/ Heather Urquhart on Improvisation Part One 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/heather-urquhart-on-improvisation-part-one/ Part Two 🎧 👉  https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/heather-urquhart-on-improvisation-part-two/Fraser Simpson on Making Ethics Engaging 🎧 👉  https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/fraser-simpson-on-making-ethics-engaging/Speak To The Human pod Christian Hunt on Bringing Behavioural Science to Risk Management🎧 👉  https://www.acteoncommunication.com/podcast/episode-2/ Fraser Simpson on a Game-Changing Ethics Engagement🎧 👉  https://www.acteoncommunication.com/podcast/episode-5/ Heather Urquhart on Overcoming Fear of Failure 🎧 👉  https://www.acteoncommunication.com/podcast/episode-9/ Hannah Williams on Visual Communication 🎧 👉  https://www.acteoncommunication.com/podcast/episode-12/

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  1:32:39
• James Victore on Being Weird

  What's the most important thing we can all do to be happy? According to my guest on this episode, it's embracing the thing that made us weird as kids.  🎙️ Episode Summary On this episode, I’m joined once again by the inimitable James Victore — artist, author, and creative provocateur — to explore the power of embracing your inner weirdo. James has just published Hey Weirdo, an eBook that argues the very things that made us weird as kids are exactly what make us great as adults. We talk about where those quirks come from, how society teaches us to repress them, and why reclaiming them might just be the most important thing we do.The book is based on a series of interviews with people that have succeeded by embracing their inner weirdo. In our conversation, James shares some of these powerful and deeply personal stories, including his personal memory of a melted crayon puddle that’s coloured his creative journey ever since. We reflect on how childhood experiences, especially the ones where we were scolded or told off for stepping out of line, often hold the keys to our authentic selves.James also shares details of the other interviews from the book, revealing how other successful creatives found their voice by tuning into what made them “weird.” This episode is funny, raw, and honest. We talk about creative freedom, workplace conformity, artistic boundaries, and why our quirks are not only worth celebrating but essential for a fulfilling life.It’s a call to arms for anyone who’s ever felt out of place, and a reminder that the world doesn’t need more normal — it needs more you. 👤 Guest Bio - James VictoreJames Victore is an artist, lecturer, author, and self-described firestarter. He’s a creative provocateur whose work and teaching challenge people to trust their weirdness and embrace their unique voice.James is the author of multiple books, including Feck Perfuction and his latest, Hey Weirdo, which builds on his belief that the things that made us weird as kids are the very things that can make us great as adults.Beyond how he describes himself, James is also a celebrated designer and educator whose work has appeared in the Museum of Modern Art and who has taught at the School of Visual Arts in New York.His Instagram feed (@jamesvictore) is a playground of raw creativity, insight, and bold truth-telling — a direct extension of his belief in living a life on your own terms. 🔗 Useful LinksJames' new book: Hey WeirdoHis last book: Feck PerfuctionHis first appearance on this show: talking about Creative Courage: Social media: James on InstagramThe DO Book Company,the publisher for whom James designs coversJames' podcast The Right Questions⏱️ AI-Generated Timestamped Summary [00:00:00] Introduction to the episode and theme of being weird[00:01:00] James joins and introduces his new eBook Hey Weirdo[00:03:00] Exploring the etymology of "weird" and book origins[00:05:00] Childhood norms, creativity, and self-love[00:07:00] The melted crayon memory and its lifelong creative influence[00:10:00] The emotional contrast between child and parent perspectives[00:11:00] Interview with Suzy Batiz and floral wallpaper insight[00:13:00] Lena Jensen’s story and discovery of her own weirdness[00:15:00] Society’s role in normalising behaviour and stifling creativity[00:17:00] The play, joy, and love that get trained out of us[00:19:00] How weirdness becomes a superpower[00:21:00] Workplace conformity and annual performance boxes[00:23:00] Why truly creative people are disruptive — and that’s good[00:24:00] Autonomy vs chaos: setting creative boundaries[00:26:00] How to reconnect with childhood weirdness[00:28:00] Workbook coming soon to help readers find their voice[00:29:00] Reflecting on discomfort in adulthood as a weirdness clue[00:30:00] Trauma from work, education, and criticism[00:32:00] Tolerance and respecting other people’s weirdness[00:33:00] The emotional resistance to following your voice[00:35:00] Changing jobs vs changing yourself[00:37:00] How Lena Jensen built a creative career by being herself[00:39:00] Why commoditised paths are actually riskier[00:41:00] The lie behind “brave” career choices[00:43:00] The real sin: not using your voice or your gifts[00:45:00] Memories are made from weirdness, not routine[00:46:00] Green rooms, creative boundaries, and artistic standards[00:48:00] How James negotiated creative freedom in client work[00:50:00] Trusting your weirdness and finding your audience[00:52:00] Negative feedback, criticism, and learning to accept it[00:54:00] Why everything — good or bad — is a teacher[00:56:00] The danger of chasing money over fulfilment[00:57:00] Corporate incentives and “compensation”[00:59:00] Where to find James and how to get Hey Weirdo

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  1:01:04
• Anne Sebba on The Women's Orchestra of Auschwitz

  Why was there a women’s orchestra in Auschwitz, and what can that help us understand human resilience? In this deeply moving episode of the show, I speak with Anne Sebba — renowned biographer, historian, and journalist — about one of the Holocaust’s most extraordinary and little-known stories: the Women’s Orchestra of Auschwitz. Anne’s latest book tells the story of how a group of female prisoners were forced to form an orchestra in one of the most brutal Nazi concentration camps. They played not for celebration or escape, but as part of the machinery of terror — and yet, through music, they found a way to survive. As Anne shares, her journey into this story began with a startling personal discovery: her father was present at Bergen-Belsen shortly after its liberation. That visceral connection led her to uncover the story of Alma Rosé, the orchestra’s conductor and the niece of Gustav Mahler, who used discipline and musical brilliance to save lives. We talk about the complexities of human behaviour, the ethical dilemmas of survival, and the way music — even when twisted into a tool of torture — remained a powerful expression of the human spirit. We also explore how Anne approached telling this story as someone who is neither a survivor nor the child of survivors. She explains the challenges of working with conflicting testimonies, the emotional toll of researching this subject, and why she took piano lessons while writing the book. Above all, this episode is about the resilience of the women who played in the orchestra, and the importance of telling stories that allow us to see history not just in abstract terms, but through individual lives. 👤 About My Guest: Anne SebbaAnne Sebba is a bestselling biographer, historian, and former Reuters foreign correspondent. She describes herself as a “writer of compelling stories about iconic women,” and has written extensively about women in the 20th century, including Les Parisiennes, That Woman: The Life of Wallis Simpson, and Ethel Rosenberg: A Cold War Tragedy. Her latest work explores the story of the Women’s Orchestra of Auschwitz.Anne is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature and speaks regularly on women’s history and the ethics of storytelling. Her official website is www.annesebba.com. 🕰️ AI-Generated Episode Timestamps[00:00:00] Introduction to Anne Sebba and the Women’s Orchestra of Auschwitz[00:01:00] How Anne discovered the story and its personal connection[00:04:00] Anne’s father's presence at Belsen and discovering his handwritten notes[00:07:00] Why her father never spoke about the war[00:10:00] Individual stories as a way to process historical horrors[00:13:00] Interviews with survivors and the challenge of conveying memory[00:15:00] Navigating the wealth of material and ethical responsibility[00:18:00] Using memoirs, archives, and testimony[00:21:00] Anne’s personal journey: taking piano lessons for research[00:24:00] Music as a tool of torture and as resistance[00:26:00] The Nazi logic behind having an orchestra in Auschwitz[00:30:00] How Alma Rosé transformed the orchestra[00:34:00] Alma’s strict standards and her life-saving leadership[00:39:00] How tensions within the orchestra reflected broader dynamics[00:44:00] Spotlight on Hélène (Hilda) and her moral clarity[00:48:00] The absence of clear moral choices in the camp[00:51:00] The psychological legacy and postwar trauma[00:54:00] Antisemitism and internal tensions in the orchestra[00:57:00] Were there moments of humanity among perpetrators?[01:01:00] What lessons have — or haven’t — we learned from history?[01:03:00] Anne on future work and how she finds her stories[01:05:00] Closing thoughts 🔗 Resources & LinksAnne Sebba’s official website: www.annesebba.comThe Women’s Orchestra of Auschwitz by Anne Sebba https://www.weidenfeldandnicolson.co.uk/titles/anne-sebba/the-women%E2%80%99s-orchestra-of-auschwitz/9781399610735/Yad Vashem: www.yadvashem.orgShoah Foundation Archive: sfi.usc.edu/vhaUnited States Holocaust Memorial Museum: www.ushmm.orgAlma Rosé on Wikipedia: Alma RoséAlma Rosé playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQVyd2dz1rkBergen-Belsen Liberation: The Liberation Of Bergen-Belsen 15 April 1945 - The Holocaust | IWM

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  1:06:15
• Matthew McNerney on Museum Design

  What makes people want to go to museum? How can they ensure they still remain relevant? I spend a lot of my time in museums.  They inspire me, inform me and put me into mindsets I wouldn't otherwise be in.  So I wanted to learn more about them.Episode Summary On this episode, I sit down with Matthew McNerney, Chief Creative Officer of Luci Creative, to explore the hidden psychology behind museum design. Matthew has worked on everything from the Lego House in Denmark to presidential libraries, science museums, and even the NASCAR Hall of Fame.Together, we dive into the ways museum spaces are meticulously crafted to shape how we learn, feel, and interact with history, culture, and ideas. We also discuss the challenges museums face today—from declining visitor numbers to evolving audience expectations—and what it takes to design experiences that are both educational and entertaining.Along the way, Matthew shares fascinating insights from his career, from how a single professor changed the trajectory of his life to the unexpected lessons learned from working on hospital play spaces. If you've ever been inspired by a museum visit or wondered why some exhibits engage while others fall flat, this conversation is for you.Guest Biography: Matthew McNerney Matthew McNerney is the Chief Creative Officer at Luci Creative, a museum and brand experience design firm that works at the intersection of curiosity and change. His work spans a vast array of projects, from designing experiences for the Lego House in Billund, Denmark, to working on presidential libraries, science museums, and the NASCAR Hall of Fame. Matthew’s career in museum design began in an unexpected way — he originally considered becoming a wedding designer before a professor introduced him to the world of exhibition design.Since then, he has spent over 20 years in the field, crafting experiences that spark curiosity and create lasting impressions. His work is deeply influenced by behavioral science, storytelling, and the psychology of engagement, all of which help him transform physical spaces into immersive learning environments.Beyond museums, Matthew has also worked on brand experiences, including designing retail environments for New Balance and flagship stores for Tiffany & Co. His expertise lies in creating multisensory experiences that connect people with content in compelling ways. AI-Generated Timestamped Summary[00:00:00] Introduction[00:01:00] Introducing Matthew McNerney and his work in museum design[00:02:00] How Matthew got into museum design—pivoting from wedding planning[00:06:00] The role of museums in shaping collective memory and conversatio[00:08:00] How museums balance education and entertainment[00:11:00] The variety of projects Matthew has worked on, from LEGO to NASCAR[00:14:00] The complexity of designing exhibits that engage diverse audiences[00:17:00] Museums as the most trusted institutions—but with declining attendance[00:19:00] Competing for attention: Museums vs. other forms of entertainment[00:24:00] The challenges of working with subject-matter experts and overcoming "the curse of passion"[00:29:00] The Mona Lisa effect—why some artworks become pilgrimage sites[00:32:00] Designing for different visitor experiences and expectations[00:37:00] Using behavioral science to map visitor engagement strategies[00:40:00] The hidden barriers that stop people from visiting museums[00:45:00] The challenge of curating history while staying objective[00:50:00] Creating curiosity: Making museums a launchpad for deeper exploration[00:53:00] How Lego taught Matthew a lesson about designing for engagement[00:55:00] Gamifying museum experiences—how the Cleveland Museum of Art makes learning fun[00:57:00] The risks and security challenges of modern museum spaces[01:00:00] Matthew’s favorite museum recommendations[01:02:00] Where to find Matthew’s work and final thoughtsLinks & ReferencesLuci Creative – https://lucicreative.com/Matthew McNerney’s Website – https://matthewmcnerney.com/Lego House, Billund, Denmark – https://www.legohouse.com/Tenement Museum, New York – https://www.tenement.org/Micropia, Amsterdam – https://www.micropia.nl/en/Cleveland Museum of Art – ArtLens Exhibit – https://www.clevelandart.org/artlens-galleryPrevious episode of the show featuring Professor Tom Schössler talking about museum innovation - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-tom-schossler-on-deploying/

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  1:01:54

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