The Living Church Podcast

Four hundred years of prayer book “turning points” give surprising guidance for current crossroads in worship and common life.
Our guests, Matthew Olver and Nathan Jennings, are here to talk about their new book, Turning Points in Prayer Book History: From England Through Scotland to the United States.
After today’s episode, your view of the Book of Common Prayer may never be the same; not in how you use it, or even maybe what you know about it, but in how you see its role in Anglican decision making and discernment.
From 16th century words of distribution to 21st century marriage services, tracing the patterns of prayer book past may help us navigate the complexities of the present.
Today we dive into the book’s content, the purpose behind it, and how Nathan and Matthew hope it might be a gift to the parish priest and the seminary classroom.
In today’s conversation:
We trace patterns in prayer book revision across culture and time. Is there a distinctive Anglican way of being to pay attention to?
We brush up our definition of via media and face the rap for “Anglican fudge,” including what’s deserved, and what’s often misunderstood about politics and compromise.
We discuss the kinds of historical moments in which revision tends to happen and ask, “What kind of moment are we in now?”

From Henry VIII to Resolution B012, we also venture to guess how the hand of providence has been at work all along the way.
The Rev. Dr. Nathan Jennings is J. Milton Richardson Professor of Liturgics and Anglican Studies and chair of the Anglican Studies program at Seminary of the Southwest, Sewanee. His other books include Theology as Ascetic Act and Liturgy and Theology, Economy and Reality.
The Rev. Dr. Matthew Olver is executive director and publisher of The Living Church, senior lecturer in liturgics at Nashotah House Theological Seminary, and priest associate at Zion Episcopal Church, Oconomowoc, WI. He is widely published on early Christian liturgy and the development of the Book of Common Prayer.
In today’s bonus segment, we turn to prayer again, this time with celebrated Orthodox author and speaker Frederica Mathewes-Green, for a personal conversation about the Jesus Prayer. This is a little taster of ourtime together at our Praying with the Great Tradition conference in May 2027.
Frederica is a wide-ranging author and speaker, mostly on the Orthodox faith and elements of its spiritual life. She has been a regular commentator for National Public Radio (NPR), a columnist for theReligion News Service, and a podcaster for Ancient Faith Radio. She has an honorary Doctor of Letters from King University.
From the episode
Turning Points in Prayer Book History - coupon TURN20 for 20% off
The Jesus Prayer: The Ancient Desert Prayer that Tunes the Heart to God and  Welcome to the Orthodox Church by Frederica Mathews Green
Frederica's website: FredericaMG.com
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This week, we collaborate with The Average Episcopalian podcast hosts Annie Hodges and Kate Greer to unpack what it means to be Anglican.
This is Part 2 of the conversation. You can find Part 1, “The Anglican Experiment: Listening,” at theaverageepiscopalian.com, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.
In these two episodes (really, one long conversation), we talk about how to be attentive, to listen, to learn, to follow God’s voice from where you are, yet still to know yourself as part of the body that’s much bigger than you and may be there partly to make you uncomfortable.
How does this look from the perspective of history and wider Anglicanism? How does this look in the Episcopal Church? And how does this look for “the average Episcopalian”?
Again, catch Part 1 of today's conversation here.
Annie Hodges & Kate Greer are sisters and hosts of The Average Episcopalian podcast, where they attempt to tackle the mystery of faith with reason and humor through the lens of the church they love. Annie is a supply chain manager living in Dallas, Texas, where she puts both her hosting and engineering skills to work as a volunteer in her local Episcopal church. Kate is a paralegal based out of Berlin, Germany, where she sings in her local church choir at a historic Anglican parish.
For our bonus segment, Anglican ordinand Roberto Ábrego joins me from his home in Germany to share his thought-provoking essay, “The Freedom of Not Being Secure,” inspired by life in Mexico and the parable of the wealthy landowner in Luke.
Roberto Carlos Ábrego Manríquez is an ordinand in the Church of England's Diocese of Europe and is undertaking doctoral research at the University of Freiburg and Aix-Marseille University. He and his wife are involved with ministries for asylum seekers.
From the episode
theaverageepiscopalian.com
The Freedom of Not Being Secure by Roberto Carlos Ábrego Manríquez (TLC Covenant)
livingchurch.org/covenant
livingchurch.org
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What happened in the Chip Edgar misconduct case? And what does it reveal about the continued, if fractured, relationships between the Episcopal Church and the ACNA?
Today’s newsdesk begins with two bishops, ecclesial discipline, and the complex landscape that is Anglicanism in South Carolina.
From there, we explore what this brings to light about the ACNA’s ongoing relationship with the Episcopal Church; how the 39 Articles, Jerusalem Declaration, and Abuja Affirmation offer clarity and hopeful surprises; and remaining questions about Christian friendship, leadership, and engagement across divides.
In a state of division, even with a call to “principled disengagement” of Global Anglican Communion from Anglican Communion relationships, it turns out that the lines between divided denominations aren’t as clear as they seem, and that the principal founding documents of the ACNA and Global Anglican Communion are more generous and realistic about inter-Anglican relationships than you might expect.
Host Amber Noel is joined by the Rev. Dr. Matthew Olver (executive director and publisher) and the Rev. Mark Michael (editor) of the Living Church.
For our bonus segment, Episcopal priest Joe Shepley remembers the day in 2001 when his curacy at a New York Church led him to the rubble and smoke of Ground Zero. We walk the paths of forgiveness and healing that would impact his ministry over the next 25 years.
The Rev. Joseph Shepley is rector at St. Mary’s Episcopal Church in Stuart, Florida. He is in his 30th year of ordained ministry.
From the episode
ACNA Responds to Shared S.C. Chapel Blessing by Neva Rae Fox and Mark Michael (TLC News)
ACNA Charges Bishop Edgar with Misconduct by Arlie Coles (TLC News)
Abp. Julian Dobbs’s statement
A Church That Has Erred Is Still a Church by Matthew S.C. Olver (TLC Commentary)
Two Churches and One School — Christian Leadership Across Division by Brandt Montgomery (TLC Covenant)
What Bishops Edgar (ACNA) and Woodliff-Stanley (TEC) did was canonically valid and a good thing. by Jack Franicevich (Substack)
Scandal as a Concept in Anglican Canon Law by Samuel Bray
Questions for GAFCON (TLC Podcast)
Newsdesk on Global Anglican Communion (TLC Podcast)
Matt Kennedy’s podcast, Stand Firm
From the bonus
The Light of Christ at Ground Zero (2001) by Joseph Shepley (TLC Archives)
Healing Center of Martin County
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What is theology? And what is the Episcopal Church’s relationship to it? How does the Episcopal Church think and live theologically?
Several authors approach these questions in a book released earlier this year by Church Publishing: Wisdom, Knowledge, and Faith: New Essays on the Future of Theology and the Episcopal Church. We invited two of its contributors, Scott MacDougall and the Rev. Kelli Joyce, to share their thoughts.
It can be easy for Episcopal leaders, or the average Episcopalian, to feel like theology is a luxury, fussy, or something “other people” do who have the time or training to care.
Today we get a taste of how two of the top theological and pastoral thinkers in the Episcopal Church more broadly consider theology and its role in Episcopal life, from personal formation to polity and Church unity, and they’re helping other Episcopalians to understand how they're already "doing theology" together.
If you dig the conversation or want to learn more, Church publishing will give you 20% off Kelli and Scott’s book with code TURN20 at checkout at churchpublishing.org. Offer ends December 31. We’ll include a link in the show notes.
Along with Executive Director Matthew Olver, Scott and Kelli discuss:
What is theology?
What does it mean for Christian theology to be “recognizable” across the centuries? 
How do Episcopalians understand themselves within the larger Christian tradition, even in theological tension and conflict?

The Rev. Kelli Joyce is a priest of the Diocese of Arizona, currently living and ministering in the Diocese of Tennessee. She is a candidate for the Ph.D. in Theological Studies at Vanderbilt University.
Scott MacDougall is director for theological resources for The Episcopal Church.
Kelli co-edited (with Rob McSwain) and Scott contributed to the book that inspired this conversation, Wisdom, Knowledge, and Faith: New Essays on the Future of Theology and the Episcopal Church.
In our bonus segment, how do you spot a deacon in a crowd? What if you’re called to be one? And what if you’ve got a deacon-in-formation on your hands?
The Rev. W. Keith McCoy joins TLC for a chat about the vocation of deacons, how it differs from lay and priestly ministry, and top tips for nurturing a deacon at your church.
Keith is a deacon from the Diocese of New Jersey, a semi-retired public library administrator, and a former archdeacon and chair of diaconal formation. He is currently president of the Fund for the Diaconate of The Episcopal Church.

From the episode:
Get 20% off Kelli and Scott’s book with code WISDOM20 at checkout at churchpublishing.org. Offer ends December 31, 2026.
Learn about the Fund for the Diaconate
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How do you lead a congregation or a community in the wake of natural disaster?
This question has always been relevant for church leaders to wrestle with, from theodicy and loss of life, to property damage and insurance claims. Climate change is making this question all the more common.
In Isaiah, God says to a people well-acquainted with disaster, “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned” (43:2).
Today we hear from three Episcopal leaders whose churches have recently passed through fire and flood. Where did they see, even in the moment, God’s hand at work? What did they learn from the experience? What wisdom would they share with other church leaders like you?
We’ll hear three stories today of Episcopal parishes and natural disaster, including:
Practical tips for parishes, ex. how to communicate if cell service goes out, ways to build preparedness.
How preaching and pastoral care are shaped, even years later.
The strange gift of insufficiency as a priest.
The surprises of God’s presence in chaos, relief efforts, and the long road of recovery.
Our guests include:
The Rev. Kelsey Davis, Bishop’s Deputy for Disaster Response and Recovery in the Diocese of Western North Carolina and vicar at St. George’s Episcopal Church, Asheville
The Rev. Bryan Owen, rector of St. Luke's Episcopal Church, Baton Rouge, Louisiana
The Rev. Bert Baetz, rector of St. Peter's Episcopal Church, Kerrville, Texas

For our bonus chat, how do we experience God’s provision, not only in extraordinary events but in the day-to-day? Jerusalem Greer joins us to share about a book she reviewed for us, Food Theology: Nourishing Faith in Local Communities. We chat about the age-old Christian calling to share God’s love through food, and end with her best recipe for bread pudding.
Jerusalem is Co-Executive Director and Agrarian Minister at Procter Camp & Conference Center in the Diocese of Southern Ohio.
From this episode
Learn more about becoming a Living Church Partner
Episcopal Relief and Development
Donate to St. Luke's building fund
Donate to St. Peter's flood relief ministries
Donate to Western NC disaster resiliency
From the bonus
JerusalemGreer.com
Procter Center and farm (where Jerusalem works)
Jerusalem's savory bread pudding recipe 
From TLC magazine
Louisiana Parish to Rebuild After Devastating Fire
Hurricane Batters Churches Across the Southeast
Survivor's Gratitude
Anglican Priest and Funeral Director Reflects on Texas Flooding
Texas Hill Country Parish Offers Support for the Long Haul
The Gospel and Real Stomachs (Jerusalem's book review)
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