The Living Church Podcast

What is theology? And what is the Episcopal Church’s relationship to it? How does the Episcopal Church think and live theologically?
Several authors approach these questions in a book released earlier this year by Church Publishing: Wisdom, Knowledge, and Faith: New Essays on the Future of Theology and the Episcopal Church. We invited two of its contributors, Scott MacDougall and the Rev. Kelli Joyce, to share their thoughts.
It can be easy for Episcopal leaders, or the average Episcopalian, to feel like theology is a luxury, fussy, or something “other people” do who have the time or training to care.
Today we get a taste of how two of the top theological and pastoral thinkers in the Episcopal Church more broadly consider theology and its role in Episcopal life, from personal formation to polity and Church unity, and they’re helping other Episcopalians to understand how they're already "doing theology" together.
If you dig the conversation or want to learn more, Church publishing will give you 20% off Kelli and Scott’s book with code TURN20 at checkout at churchpublishing.org. Offer ends December 31. We’ll include a link in the show notes.
Along with Executive Director Matthew Olver, Scott and Kelli discuss:
What is theology?
What does it mean for Christian theology to be “recognizable” across the centuries? 
How do Episcopalians understand themselves within the larger Christian tradition, even in theological tension and conflict?

The Rev. Kelli Joyce is a priest of the Diocese of Arizona, currently living and ministering in the Diocese of Tennessee. She is a candidate for the Ph.D. in Theological Studies at Vanderbilt University.
Scott MacDougall is director for theological resources for The Episcopal Church.
Kelli co-edited (with Rob McSwain) and Scott contributed to the book that inspired this conversation, Wisdom, Knowledge, and Faith: New Essays on the Future of Theology and the Episcopal Church.
In our bonus segment, how do you spot a deacon in a crowd? What if you’re called to be one? And what if you’ve got a deacon-in-formation on your hands?
The Rev. W. Keith McCoy joins TLC for a chat about the vocation of deacons, how it differs from lay and priestly ministry, and top tips for nurturing a deacon at your church.
Keith is a deacon from the Diocese of New Jersey, a semi-retired public library administrator, and a former archdeacon and chair of diaconal formation. He is currently president of the Fund for the Diaconate of The Episcopal Church.

From the episode:
Get 20% off Kelli and Scott’s book with code WISDOM20 at checkout at churchpublishing.org. Offer ends December 31, 2026.
Learn about the Fund for the Diaconate
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How do you lead a congregation or a community in the wake of natural disaster?
This question has always been relevant for church leaders to wrestle with, from theodicy and loss of life, to property damage and insurance claims. Climate change is making this question all the more common.
In Isaiah, God says to a people well-acquainted with disaster, “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned” (43:2).
Today we hear from three Episcopal leaders whose churches have recently passed through fire and flood. Where did they see, even in the moment, God’s hand at work? What did they learn from the experience? What wisdom would they share with other church leaders like you?
We’ll hear three stories today of Episcopal parishes and natural disaster, including:
Practical tips for parishes, ex. how to communicate if cell service goes out, ways to build preparedness.
How preaching and pastoral care are shaped, even years later.
The strange gift of insufficiency as a priest.
The surprises of God’s presence in chaos, relief efforts, and the long road of recovery.
Our guests include:
The Rev. Kelsey Davis, Bishop’s Deputy for Disaster Response and Recovery in the Diocese of Western North Carolina and vicar at St. George’s Episcopal Church, Asheville
The Rev. Bryan Owen, rector of St. Luke's Episcopal Church, Baton Rouge, Louisiana
The Rev. Bert Baetz, rector of St. Peter's Episcopal Church, Kerrville, Texas

For our bonus chat, how do we experience God’s provision, not only in extraordinary events but in the day-to-day? Jerusalem Greer joins us to share about a book she reviewed for us, Food Theology: Nourishing Faith in Local Communities. We chat about the age-old Christian calling to share God’s love through food, and end with her best recipe for bread pudding.
Jerusalem is Co-Executive Director and Agrarian Minister at Procter Camp & Conference Center in the Diocese of Southern Ohio.
From this episode
Learn more about becoming a Living Church Partner
Episcopal Relief and Development
Donate to St. Luke's building fund
Donate to St. Peter's flood relief ministries
Donate to Western NC disaster resiliency
From the bonus
JerusalemGreer.com
Procter Center and farm (where Jerusalem works)
Jerusalem's savory bread pudding recipe 
From TLC magazine
Louisiana Parish to Rebuild After Devastating Fire
Hurricane Batters Churches Across the Southeast
Survivor's Gratitude
Anglican Priest and Funeral Director Reflects on Texas Flooding
Texas Hill Country Parish Offers Support for the Long Haul
The Gospel and Real Stomachs (Jerusalem's book review)
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Join the mission at Saint Francis Ministries
Same Old Song podcast

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Today we learn from a theologian and astrophysicist about how priests can navigate science and faith.
“Consider the stars,” God says to Abraham. The psalms and canticles, too, recommend we look up, beyond our own planet, to consider the grandeur and mystery of God’s handiwork.
You could also say, in a way, that’s what science does, whether it’s looking upward and outward or down and in.
Today we hear from a fellow stargazer and foremost leader in the area of Christianity and science, specializing in resourcing leaders for engagement in and conversations about the scientific topics of our day.
As we learn, you don’t have to be an expert to be an advocate for good scientific work, or to point out where God is at work, even in some of the most complex and controversial issues your parishioners are dealing with, like AI or life on other planets.
Our guest is the Rev. Dr. David Wilkinson. David is Principal of St Johns College and Professor in the Department of Theology and Religion at the University of Durham, England. His background is in theoretical astrophysics and systematic theology. David is also a Methodist minister, has been an ecumenical canon at Durham Cathedral, and is the Project Director at Equipping Christian Leadership in an Age of Science.
Today we’ll talk about:
Surprising and fruitful intersections between ministry and science.
How the average parish priest can enter difficult science-related conversations.
Theological implications of space travel, living on other planets, and UFO/UAP phenomena.

In our bonus segment, we call up New Testament scholar Wesley Hill for a teaser of his talk at our Radiant Pages conference, all about the non-Pauline epistles and their place in Christian life.
The Rev. Dr. Wesley Hill is an author, speaker, and professor, and currently serves as Associate Professor of New Testament at Wycliffe College Toronto. He has several new books in the works, including a theological commentary on the Johannine Epistles.
From the episode
Equipping Christian Leadership in an Age of Science
Andrew Davison on UAPs/aliens
John Polkinghorne’s One World
NASA website
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What happened at the Anglican Consultative Council meeting in Belfast, and why does it matter?
In July, our editor, Mark Michael, returned from a gathering of Anglicans that happens every three years: a meeting of the Anglican Consultative Council (ACC). This year’s was June 27- July 5, in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and also marked the first 100 days or so of Archbishop Sarah Mullally’s ministry as Archbishop of Canterbury.
We pulled together a special episode of the newsdesk to talk about what Mark brought back from this international Communion reunion, who was there, what people were hoping for, and what came of it.
We’ll particularly discuss the reception and discussion of a document from the InterAnglican Standing Commission on Unity, Faith, and Order, known as the Nairobi-Cairo Proposals (NCPs).
Two principal proposals in the NCPs were hotly debated at the Anglican Consultative Council meeting: a proposal to limit the powers of the Archbishop of Canterbury and share them among other primates, and proposal to removing communion with the See of Canterbury as a primary marker of Anglican identity. 
Special thanks to Mark Michael, our editor, and the Matthew Olver, our executive director and publisher, who joined me at the newsdesk.
In our bonus segment, we go from the Communion gathering to vestry meeting. How do you nurture vestry members in their capacity as spiritual leaders? Retired Episcopal priest and retreat facilitator, the Rev. Dr. Marc Smith, has some tips.
From this episode
Podcast episodes:
Newsdesk on developments in Gafcon’s Global Anglican Communion
Questions for Gafcon (Winner of Episcopal Communicators Polly Bond Award)
Websites & documents:
The Nairobi-Cairo Proposals
Inter-Anglican Standing Commission on Unity, Faith and Order
Anglican Consultative Council Standing Committee Resolution
Statement from Global South Fellowship of Anglican Churches
Living Church articles:
Mullally Calls ACC to Deepened Hope and Trust
Anglicans Challenged to Plant 1 Million Churches
ACC Members Walk in Derry’s Paths of Peace
ACC Members Doubtful About Nairobi-Cairo Proposals
Mullally on Nairobi-Cairo Proposals: ‘We’re Not There Yet’
ACC Debates Nairobi-Cairo Proposals, Elects Leaders
Archbishop Mullally: The First 100 Days
From the bonus
Vestry Reflections: Cultivating Spiritual Growth in Church Leaders
Marc’s website
TLC’s review of Marc’s book
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Same Old Song podcast

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What mysteries wink at us from the bright colors of stained glass?
“For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face” (1 Cor. 13:12). Here St. Paul is talking about how the spectrum of the full human being is revealed—will be revealed—in the light of the face of Christ. But in our modern world of clear mirrors, transparent windows, and electric lights, seeing through glass is not usually done very darkly. One place that St. Paul’s image still comes alive, however, is in the stained glass window.
Stained glass can be darkening and illuminating at the same time. And as we learn from our guest today, what stained glass doesn’t reveal of the outdoors, with unmediated sunlight, it makes up for by illuminating what's indoors. By dimming with color and pattern, it can actually bring the beauty of the church into better focus, both with literal light, and through the stories it tells.
Where does stained glass come from? And why did it become so important to Christians? What can we read in stained glass, what do we often miss? And how, if you’re a steward of stained glass windows yourself, can you take better care of them?
Our guest is Léonie Seliger, the stained glass artist responsible for the conservation of the stained glass windows of Canterbury Cathedral.
Léonie joins us to talk about:
The origins and theology of stained glass. 
The limits and complexities of the art, and how they open up creative possibility.
What to pay attention to when taking care of stained glass in your church.
A few inside stories about the stained glass in Canterbury Cathedral.

Léonie is Director of The Cathedral Studios of Canterbury, which makes, designs, and preserves stained glass for churches all over the world. She is a Freeman of the Worshipful Company of Glaziers and an ICON accredited conservator/restorer.
Today we scale the scaffolding for an up-close look at one of the oldest Christian art forms and what it reveals about Church history, human longings, and life in Christ.
From this episode
Thomas Becket miracle window project at Canterbury Cathedral
Canterbury Cathedral Studios website
All Saints parish in Tudeley, Marc Chagall windows
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