The Restaurant Guys

This is a Vintage episode from 2006.
Why This Episode Matters
Learn when a shortcut saves effort without sacrificing the finished dish.
Bring restaurant habits home: prepare ahead, clean as you go, and cook with more confidence.
Hear Susan Spungen on finding her own voice after twelve years at Martha Stewart Living.

The Banter
A new restaurant in New Brunswick sends Mark and Francis back to the days when dinner service ended and the disco ball came down. They also explore how old restaurant menus can help researchers trace changes in the oceans by tracking seafood availability, prices, and tastes.

The Conversation
Susan Spungen, the founding food editor of Martha Stewart Living, joins the Guys to discuss her first solo cookbook, Recipes: A Collection for the Modern Cook. She describes stepping out from behind a major media company and making cooking approachable without stripping away the pleasure of doing it well. Her rule for shortcuts: the result still has to be something you’re proud of.
Organized by technique, her book helps cooks understand what they’re doing rather than simply follow instructions. Susan, Mark, and Francis discuss mise en place, planning ahead, and why getting the cleanup done early can matter as much as getting the chopping done.
They also cover knives, essential cookware, and the advantages of moving a pan from stovetop to oven. Susan recalls a mandoline mishap while filming with Martha; yet the cameras had to keep rolling. Afterward, the Guys remember their 1996 dinner celebrating the bicentennial of Amelia Simmons’s American Cookery.

Guest Bio
Susan Spungen is a cook, food stylist, recipe developer, and cookbook author. She was the founding food editor and editorial director of food at Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia. Her books include Recipes: A Collection for the Modern Cook and Cookie Queen.

2026 Update
Susan’s new book, Cookie Queen, publishes November 3, 2026, with more than 80 cookie recipes. The book discussed in this 2006 interview is Recipes: A Collection for the Modern Cook. PenguinRandomHouse.com: Books

Timestamps
00:00 — Disco balls and what old menus reveal
07:00 — Susan Spungen steps out on her own
12:00 — Permission to take a shortcut
16:00 — Restaurant preparation for the home kitchen
20:00 — Knife skills and caring for your tools
25:00 — Essential cookware and a mishap with Martha
Links
Susan Spungen:
https://www.susanspungen.com/
Cookie Queen:
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/797830/cookie-queen-by-susan-spungen/

Oct 26-31 - Spooky Bar at Stage Left Steak
 https://www.stageleft.com/event/spooky-bar-1026-1031/
Oct 27, Tuesday - Robert Simonson book signing cocktail party
More info - https://www.stageleft.com/events/ 
Subscribe: Restaurant Guys' Regular
https://restaurantguysregulars.buzzsprout.com/
Magyar Bank
https://www.magbank.com/
Stage Left Wine Shop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/
Our Places
Stage Left Steak
https://www.stageleft.com/
Catherine Lombardi Restaurant
https://www.catherinelombardi.com/
Stage Left Wineshop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/
Reach Out to The Guys!
TheGuys@restaurantguyspodcast.com

Why This Episode Matters
A great bartender needs more than recipes and a great cocktail doesn’t necessarily need more ingredients.
Black and Filipino bartenders helped shape American drinking and preserve traditions that might otherwise have disappeared.
The drinks that last are the ones other bartenders can actually make.
The Banter
Mark and Francis debate whether we’ve reached peak spritz, suggest leaving the soda out of an Aperol Spritz, and deliver an unfiltered verdict on Sarti Rosa. After the interview, a dirty-martini disagreement turns into an argument about olive brine, expensive gin, and who’s being too fancy.
The Conversation
Cocktail historian David Wondrich returns to discuss The Comic Book History of the Cocktail, illustrated by Dean Kotz. He shares the stories of Black bartenders, the Colored Mixologists Club, and the Filipino bartenders who helped keep tiki recipes alive, along with a mint julep far more elaborate than the bourbon-and-mint version most people know.
The Guys explore Jerry Thomas’s missing illustrated book, the cocktail world’s dark ages, and the revival they helped build. Wondrich explains why Mark, Francis, and New Brunswick earned a place in his account of the cocktail renaissance.
Then the conversation turns to today’s bars: the balance between technical skill and hospitality, making classic drinks with care, and cocktails so complicated that no one else can reproduce them. David makes the case for choosing ingredients thoughtfully and giving each drink a flavor that can actually shine.
The Guest
David Wondrich is a James Beard Award-winning author and cocktail historian whose books include Imbibe! and Punch. He is editor in chief of The Oxford Companion to Spirits and Cocktails and a founding partner of Beverage Alcohol Resource.
Timestamps
00:00 — Peak spritz and the Sarti Rosa debate
07:00 — David Wondrich and cocktail history in comic-book form
15:00 — The bartenders behind the history, from tiki to the mai tai
19:00 — Black bartenders and the Colored Mixologists Club
24:00 — Jerry Thomas and his missing cocktail book
28:00 — The cocktail dark ages and bartender evolution
36:00 — New Brunswick’s place in the cocktail renaissance
39:00 — Cocktail complexity, costs, and the return to classics
43:00 — Why some cocktails travel and others never will
48:00 — The Guys’ dirty-martini disagreement
Information
The Comic Book History of the Cocktail:
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/675535/the-comic-book-history-of-the-cocktail-by-david-wondrich-illustrated-by-dean-kotz/

David Wondrich at Beverage Alcohol Resource:
https://beveragealcoholresource.com/who-we-are/who-we-are-dave/

Oct 26-31 - Spooky Bar at Stage Left Steak
 https://www.stageleft.com/event/spooky-bar-1026-1031/
Oct 27, Tuesday - Robert Simonson book signing cocktail party
More info - https://www.stageleft.com/events/ 
Subscribe: Restaurant Guys' Regular
https://restaurantguysregulars.buzzsprout.com/
Magyar Bank
https://www.magbank.com/
Stage Left Wine Shop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/
Our Places
Stage Left Steak
https://www.stageleft.com/
Catherine Lombardi Restaurant
https://www.catherinelombardi.com/
Stage Left Wineshop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/
Reach Out to The Guys!
TheGuys@restaurantguyspodcast.com

This is a Vintage episode from 2005.
Why This Episode Matters
Earning three Michelin stars is a triumph. Keeping them brings financial commitments, public scrutiny, and relentless pressure.
Rudolph Chelminski knew Bernard Loiseau for decades and offers a personal view of the ambition behind his extraordinary career.
As they prepare to open Catherine Lombardi, Mark and Francis share their own concerns about expansion and protecting an established restaurant’s reputation.
Recorded before Michelin’s first NYC guide, this conversation captures the Guys debating whether any New York restaurant would earn three stars.

The Banter
Francis catches jazz singer Jacqui Naylor at the Blue Note, and the Guys explain why they love going out during the week. Charlie Trotter’s canceled New York restaurant prompts a discussion about expansion, expense, scrutiny, and their own preparations to open Catherine Lombardi while maintaining standards at Stage Left.
The Conversation
What does it take to earn three Michelin stars and what does keeping them demand? Journalist Rudolph Chelminski joins Mark and Francis to discuss The Perfectionist: Life and Death in Haute Cuisine, his biography of French chef Bernard Loiseau. Having known Loiseau for decades, Chelminski shares the ambition, energy, and self-doubt behind his rise to the pinnacle of French dining.
From an apprenticeship with the Troisgros brothers to taking his restaurant company public, Loiseau built a remarkable career. The conversation explores exhaustion, public scrutiny, and the financial and personal pressures surrounding him before his death in 2003. 
There’s also a discussion of professional service, finding value at lunch in great French restaurants, and the expense of maintaining an exceptional dining experience. Afterward, Mark and Francis make competing predictions about whether any New York restaurant will receive three stars when Michelin’s first NYC guide arrives. Mark’s prediction proves correct: Per Se receives three stars in Michelin’s inaugural New York City guide.

Guest Bio
Rudolph Chelminski is a journalist and author whose work has appeared in Life, Time, and The Atlantic Monthly. His books include The French at Table and The Perfectionist: Life and Death in Haute Cuisine.
Timestamps
00:00 — Jazz, Manhattans, and going out during the week
05:00 — Charlie Trotter, expansion, and opening Catherine Lombardi
07:00 — Bernard Loiseau and the pressure of public scrutiny
12:00 — Understanding Michelin’s star system
18:00 — Apprenticeship and the ambition to earn three stars
23:00 — Professional service, lunch bargains, and three-star expenses
29:00 — Michelin’s influence and predictions for New York City
Info
Rudolph’s book
The Perfectionist: Life and Death in Haute Cuisine

The Michelin Guide
https://guide.michelin.com/

Jacqui Naylor
https://jacquinaylor.com/wp/

Oct 26-31 - Spooky Bar at Stage Left Steak
 https://www.stageleft.com/event/spooky-bar-1026-1031/
Oct 27, Tuesday - Robert Simonson book signing cocktail party
More info - https://www.stageleft.com/events/ 
Subscribe: Restaurant Guys' Regular
https://restaurantguysregulars.buzzsprout.com/
Magyar Bank
https://www.magbank.com/
Stage Left Wine Shop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/
Our Places
Stage Left Steak
https://www.stageleft.com/
Catherine Lombardi Restaurant
https://www.catherinelombardi.com/
Stage Left Wineshop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/
Reach Out to The Guys!
TheGuys@restaurantguyspodcast.com

Why This Episode Matters
What it takes to reopen a restaurant after a fire shuts it down just three days into business.
How a shared-space kitchen becomes a lesson in building one restaurant team.
What went into training Jeremy Allen White for The Bear and that restaurant professionals find the show almost too real.
Why the smallest service and design decisions can shape an entire dining experience.
Banter
Can airport pizza outperform a Chicago pizza restaurant? Francis and Mark compare deep-dish disappointments, Detroit-style discoveries, and a dropped cleaning rag that should have prompted more than an apology.
The Conversation
Recorded inside Gingie in Chicago, this conversation begins with the kitchen fire that closed Brian Lockwood’s new restaurant after just three days. Five months later, he reopened with a redesigned kitchen and a team that had weathered the interruption together. Brian explains how he approached the shutdown as a second chance, retained his leadership team, and reconsidered how a small kitchen could work better.
The discussion turns to Chicago’s restaurant community and Brian’s priorities: delicious food, a comfortable room, and guests having fun. With bartenders and cooks sharing tight quarters, Gingie puts its “one team one dream” philosophy into practice. Mark and Francis explore how that approach carries into leadership, accountability, and leaving the pot-throwing chef behind.
Brian also shares how a call from Will Guidara led to training Jeremy Allen White and consulting on The Bear, from cooking techniques and mannerisms to developing dishes. Back in the dining room, the Guys examine the details that make hospitality feel effortless: red order books that match the servers’ jackets, thoughtfully designed seating, and discreetly placed screens. Great service, they agree, should leave guests knowing they had a wonderful evening even if they can’t explain every reason why.

Guest Bio
Brian Lockwood is a chef partner with Boka Restaurant Group and the chef behind Gingie in Chicago’s River North neighborhood. His career includes The French Laundry, Frasca Food and Wine, NoMad New York, and Eleven Madison Park, where he served as chef de cuisine. He also worked as a culinary consultant on The Bear.

Timestamps
00:00 — Chicago pizza, Detroit-style discoveries, and a service mishap
04:30 — Brian Lockwood and Gingie’s opening-week fire
10:00 — Rethinking the kitchen and keeping the team together
13:00 — Delicious first: hospitality and Chicago’s restaurant community
19:00 — One team: cooks, bartenders, and better leadership
21:00 — Consulting on The Bear and training Jeremy Allen White
25:00 — The small details behind seemingly effortless service

Info
Gingie; Chicago, IL
https://www.gingiechicago.com/
Brian Lockwood
https://www.bokagrp.com/brian-lockwood
Oct 26-31 - Spooky Bar at Stage Left Steak
 https://www.stageleft.com/event/spooky-bar-1026-1031/
Oct 27, Tuesday - Robert Simonson book signing cocktail party
More info - https://www.stageleft.com/events/ 
Subscribe: Restaurant Guys' Regular
https://restaurantguysregulars.buzzsprout.com/
Magyar Bank
https://www.magbank.com/
Stage Left Wine Shop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/
Our Places
Stage Left Steak
https://www.stageleft.com/
Catherine Lombardi Restaurant
https://www.catherinelombardi.com/
Stage Left Wineshop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/
Reach Out to The Guys!
TheGuys@restaurantguyspodcast.com

Why This Episode Matters
Kyle Knall explains why Milwaukee offers the community support to build ambitious restaurants—and a life outside them.
Jason Ryczek takes us inside Caviar Camp, from getting into tanks with sturgeon to selecting roe and serving it at Little’s Oyster Bar.
Leonard Botello IV reveals what separates exceptional brisket from disappointing barbecue, including the importance of fire management, resting and learning to listen.
These conversations celebrate the craft and hospitality behind memorable meals, all in support of Southern Smoke Foundation’s work helping food and beverage workers.
The Conversation
Back at Southern Smoke Festival in Houston, Mark and Francis welcome returning guest Kyle Knall of Milwaukee’s Birch and newly opened Cassis. Kyle describes his vision for an all-day French brasserie and the community enthusiasm that makes Milwaukee such a rewarding place to cook. They also discuss the city’s cocktail culture and its newest residents, drinks writer Robert Simonson and his wife, Mary Kate Murray.
Jason Ryczek of Little’s Oyster Bar offers a remarkably hands-on look at caviar production, including his annual visits to Caviar Camp with mentor Deborah Keane. He discusses selecting roe, using the rest of the sturgeon and developments in no-kill caviar. Back at the table, Jason explains his Southern approach to caviar service, complemented by hush puppies and potato dumplings.
Leonard Botello IV of Truth BBQ gets into the details that make great Texas barbecue: quality beef, steady fires, humidity and the crucial resting period. He describes the quiet overnight hours when the sounds of the pit tell him what needs attention, and why experience matters more than a rigid formula. Mark and Francis also share what made their visit to Truth so memorable, from the welcome their luggage received to outstanding brisket, warm hospitality and banana cake with an Old Fashioned.
The Guests
Kyle Knall — Chef and co-owner of Birch and Cassis in Milwaukee, where he and his wife and business partner, Meghan Knall, combine ambitious cooking with neighborhood hospitality.
Jason Ryczek — Chef of Little’s Oyster Bar in Houston, bringing a West Coast perspective to Gulf Coast seafood and a hands-on approach to caviar selection and service.
Leonard Botello IV — Owner and pitmaster of Truth BBQ in Brenham and Houston, known for his meticulous approach to Central Texas barbecue.
Timestamps
00:00 — Back in Houston for Southern Smoke
01:00 — Kyle Knall: Birch, Cassis and Milwaukee’s dining scene
05:00 — An all-day brasserie and the power of community support
10:00 — Jason Ryczek: Inside Caviar Camp
15:00 — Selecting roe and using the whole sturgeon
17:00 — Developments in no-kill caviar
19:00 — Caviar service with a Southern accent
20:00 — Oysters, Gulf seafood and a taste of place
25:00 — Leonard Botello IV: The welcome at Truth BBQ
30:00 — What makes Texas barbecue distinctive
32:00 — Listening to the pit and learning through experience
38:00 — Great brisket, proper resting and managing the fire

Info
Southern Smoke Foundation: https://www.southernsmoke.org/
Birch: https://www.birchonpleasant.com/
Cassis: https://www.cassismke.com/
Little’s Oyster Bar: https://littlesoysterbar.com/
Truth BBQ: https://truthbbq.com/
Stage Left events, including the Robert Simonson book signing: https://www.stageleft.com/events/

Oct 26-31 - Spooky Bar at Stage Left Steak
 https://www.stageleft.com/event/spooky-bar-1026-1031/
Oct 27, Tuesday - Robert Simonson book signing cocktail party
More info - https://www.stageleft.com/events/ 
Subscribe: Restaurant Guys' Regular
https://restaurantguysregulars.buzzsprout.com/
Magyar Bank
https://www.magbank.com/
Stage Left Wine Shop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/
Our Places
Stage Left Steak
https://www.stageleft.com/
Catherine Lombardi Restaurant
https://www.catherinelombardi.com/
Stage Left Wineshop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/
Reach Out to The Guys!
TheGuys@restaurantguyspodcast.com