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The Violin Chronicles Podcast

Linda Lespets
The Violin Chronicles Podcast
Latest episode

49 episodes

  • The Violin Chronicles Podcast

    Katerina Guarneri, the first lady...

    04/03/2026 | 1 mins.
    Katerina Guarneri was the wife of Giuseppe Guarneri AKA Del Gesu and what a life she had!

    Come experience the whirlwind of a life she had before she was quite literally ripped from history.

    To listen to the full episode please join me on Patreon at Patreon.com/theviolinchronicles.
  • The Violin Chronicles Podcast

    EP 42. Del Gesu Part 6. How it all ended

    13/01/2026 | 55 mins.
    DEL GESU PART 6. These are the final and perhaps most interesting years of Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu from an instrument making point of view, he is almost the last man standing in Cremona and with Stradivari and his father gone he really lets loose. Add to this the unanswered question of his wife Katarina’s role in the workshop and things just get a bit more mysterious.

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  • The Violin Chronicles Podcast

    Ep 41. Del Gesu Part 5; Cremona under siege, violins and drama!

    04/01/2026 | 53 mins.
    DEL GESU PART 5. Lets take a look at the tumultuous 1730s in Cremona shall we? And how the following events were in some way the making of our hero. As armies clash in the War of the Polish Succession, Del Gesu returns to his father's workshop, heralding a period of profound transformation in his craft. Discover how this chaotic era influenced Del Gesu's violins, leading to a golden period of violin-making amidst the backdrop of war and occupation. Featuring insights from expert guests Jonathan Marolle, Joe Bein, Christopher Reuning, and John Dilworth, this episode charts the transition and innovation that marked Del Gesu's golden period.

    Transcript

     The year was 1733 and the world beyond Cremona buzzed with talk of kings and crowns far away in Poland, king Augustus II the Strong, had died leaving behind a throne without an heir. It seemed a distant affair to the people of this quiet Lombard city on the Po River. Famous for its violins. Its craftsmen, and its golden fields. Yet even as the bells of the cathedral of Cremona tolled across the piazza whispers began. “The French are coming”, someone murmured. “For Poland?” came the puzzled reply “no” said another “for us”. In Poland, the nobles had gathered to elect a new king, many favoured Stanisław Leszczyński once a Polish monarch himself, and now the father-in-law of King Louis the 14th of France, the Polish monarchs were elected, but the Emperor Charles, the 6th of Austria and Empress, Anne of Russia, refused to accept a French backed candidate. They championed Augustus iii, the son of the late king, two kings were proclaimed and here comes the war for France and Spain. The Polish question was an excuse to strike at Austria's power, for Cremona it was the beginning of another unwanted war.

    In a small shop near the Piazza Del Commune, a Violin maker, Giuseppe bent over his workbench, listening to the chatter outside his mind, going over the question. “They say, the emperor calls us his subjects, but now the French and the Spanish march this way, whose subjects will we be next month? It's the same everywhere. We make violins. They make widows” Outside Austrian soldiers marched through the square, their white coats bright against the grey stone. To the people of Cremona they were both protectors and occupiers. Foreign rulers who demanded loyalty, taxes and silence. But our hero, well, he'd married the daughter of one, perhaps he spoke a bit of German. She could at least make herself understood. By 1734, the storm had broken French and Spanish troops allied to defend Stanisław claim poured across the Alps into northern Italy. The Austrians already fighting on too many fronts, fell back towards Mantua and Parma. Soon the fertile fields between the Po and the Olgio rivers became the front lines of Europe's quarrel, the Battle of Parma thundered. Only a day's ride from Cremona cannon's roared from the distant hills and smoke rose like storm clouds. Weeks later came another clash, the battle of Guastala so close that the ground in Cremona trembled under foot. Well, I might be exaggerating. Refugees streamed through the city gates, fields lay trampled bread grew scarce. The sound of music was replaced by the crack of muskets.

    They fight for the Polish crown people were saying in the market, but they break Italian hearts to do it. By 1735 Prince Charles Bourbon, a young and fiery commander from Spain, had taken the lead in the southern campaigns. His victories in Naples and Sicily filled Europe with his name in Cremona. Rumours spread that he would soon March North again. When Spanish troops entered the city that spring, they came weary, but triumphant. The Austrians had retreated. The people watched from behind shuttered windows as new banners. Red and gold flooded over the Citadel. Is this victory? You think Katarina asked Giuseppe? No. He replied. Setting down his tools. This is another kind of silence. For months, Cremona was caught between armies, supplies were seized, workshops turned to barracks. Yet amid the fear, acts of kindness, glimmered, nuns tending the wounded families, sharing bread with strangers, children carrying water to soldiers on the streets, even in war, Cremona refused to lose its soul while the people of Lombardy suffered.

     

    Stanisław Leszczyński, the man for whom this war had begun was trapped in the city of Dansik, besieged by Russian and Saxon troops. He waited for French help that never truly came. The city fell and the Would-be king escaped in disguise, wandering through forests until he found refuge in Prussia.

     

    When the news reached Cremona, Katarina sighed, “all this, our field, our hunger for a king who has no crown”. Giuseppe Guarneri nodded. “That is the music of Europe, my dear. The tune is always played far away, but we danced to it here”. At last, in 1738, weary diplomats signed the Treaty of Vienna. The war that had begun for Poland's throne finally ended. The peace settled like dust after a storm, Augustus III was confirmed as King of Poland,  Stanisław Leszczyński. The exile received Lorraine in France as his consolation prize Nancy the city where he set up his capital is very close to Mirecourt in the Vosges. And this dutchie of Lorraine after his death would go to the King of France. So if you ever want to go visit the French heart Violin making in Mirecourt, you can pop up to Nancy and see the Place Stanislas. Now, France would inherit Lorraine after his death, and Spain gained Naples and Sicily for the young Charles of Bourbon. Austria, though weakened, reclaimed Lombardi and Cremona. When Austrian banners returned, the people no longer cheered or cursed. They simply watched tired of change. Although for Giuseppe, he was still making through this time and soldiers, they were still clients. And when all these soldiers left, that meant clients had gone. But it also meant real estate was opening up for he and his wife, and he wasn't going to complain about peace.

    So we're back in Cremona. It's the early 1730s and our young Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu has returned home. He's back working alongside his father. Something he probably would've preferred not to do, but well then here we are. And after years of drifting, trying his luck elsewhere, maybe even working in another workshop, he is back where it all began, only now things are different. The instruments he's making don't quite look like his father's anymore. And there's a new feel, a new confidence as if Del Gesu is finally starting to find his own voice. His father, Giuseppe filius Andrea is older, now unwell, carving scrolls in the corner while his son finishes off the instruments he can't complete together. They're producing the last of the filius Andrea violins. But it is clear the torch is being passed, and as this is going on, Cremona itself is in chaos. The war of the Polish succession has spilled into Italy. Soldiers are marching through the streets. Taxes have tripled. It's a lot, but in the middle of all that noise, in this small, dusty workshop, Del Gesu is quietly reinventing himself.

    This is where the story really starts to shift, where Del Gesu begins to step out of his father's shadow and into his own skin. Now we come back to the young Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu and he is back working with his father. Some people think that in the years he was not with his father, he may have continued to make instruments finding employment. In another workshop outside of Cremona, one of his earliest surviving instruments with an original label, the Baltic of 1731, shows many stylistic differences to the instruments made by his father. It has also been suggested that many of his working techniques from 1731 were also different from those he would have been taught in his youth. Where was he to be influenced in such a way? Mm-hmm. But first things first, he would begin by finishing off the instruments hanging around that his father had started but hadn't the energy to finish. He glued the fillus Andrea labels into these last violins and cellos. These would be Giuseppe Filius Andreas last instruments, the last of the original Filius Andrea labels that we know of are from the year 1731. And while this kind of makes sense, as these would have been the last instruments he was able to make or started making with his son Del Gesu, finished for him. And it is also these instruments that you hear of becoming Del Gesu’s sometimes that they were originally, uh, identified as Giuseppe Guarneri filius Andreas. They were actually often collaborations.

     

    It was a cool autumn morning, and Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu was on his way to the printer to have a new set of labels printed out for himself. These were different to anything the family had done so far. He was not going to mention Santa Teresa on his labels like his father, grandfather, and sometimes uncle had done. He had never done this, so he was not gonna do it now, he was going to make this clear and simple. His new label design simply had his name, Giuseppe Guarneri, where it was made Cremona and when it was made, I know 1731, for example, next to it was the sign IHS was there a sign IHS on his new workshop building to let people know where to find him. Was this a distinct marker to set him apart from his father was a superstition or a bit of all three? Who knows? But what we do know is that this new label with the IHS symbol and cross would many years later earn him his most famous nickname that of Del Gesu. IHS is an ancient Christian symbol representing the first three letters in Greek of Jesus's name. In Latin, it was used as an abbreviation of Yesus dom, Salvato, Jesus' Savior of man. It was also a symbol used by a great many religious orders, lay companies and societies as a symbol of Christ. hence the name Jesu and as I mentioned in a previous episode, the symbol could just as easily have been an address or a way to find the workshop. His father's instruments were under the sign of Saint Teresa, the Venetian maker Dominica Montagnana signed his instruments at the sign of Cremona sub signum Cremonae. Over in Milan, you could find most instrument makers in the Via Larga, and they all had their own distinctive shop sign. Grancino was at the sign of the Crown, Landolfi worked at the sign of the siren, and Carlo Giuseppe Testori was at the sign of the dog howling at the moon.

    This move and new label really marks a golden period in Del Gesu’s instrument making. We see influences coming from Stradivari and a fluid affirming style. He has strong thicknesses of wood, low stiff linings, and quite large open cut sound holes through the markings and pins he uses. We see that he's not experimenting with different construction techniques, but rather sticking to the traditional method, taught to him by his father. We find the trusted central back pin on his instruments that Stradivari does not use, for example. But what you ask is happening with the older Giuseppe Guarneri. Well, he is in his sixties and after coming home from the bacterial swamp, that was 18th century hospitals of his day, he was in no fit state to make a complete instrument, but he could still prove himself useful. He had always been a proficient scroll carver, and now in his weakened state. That is what he would continue to do at his own workbench in the corner. I like to imagine he would continue to help his son by carving scroll after scroll. Goodness knew his son left his own devices would never have the same movement in his carvings as he did so for now, Del Gesu’s Instruments would predominantly be the work of both father and son.

    The year is 1733 and young Giuseppe Del Gesu is witnessing a document for the local priest, but all anyone can talk about is the war and how on earth are they going to pay these new taxes that had tripled in their amount almost overnight. They were struggling to buy bread, let alone pay more taxes. It was the war of the Polish succession, and once again, Cremona was finding herself in the middle of continued conflict. Seriously, Poland was nowhere near Cremona or Lombardi, but the French and the Austrians were fighting over the control of Milan. I mean, any excuse really, and they were at it again. The French had decided that Cremona was just the place to set up camp and house their enormous number of soldiers. Let's see how this pans out, shall we?

    In the autumn of 1733, the War of the Polish succession spilled over into Italy, and Cremona was once again in the center of action, well gotta say it, it was the French again. They just turned up unexpectedly and took over Cremona relatively quickly. I might add. Well, it was the French and the Piedmontese, and so for the next three years there were troops and soldiers coming in and out of the city creating a stressful atmosphere all round. The citizens were once again faced with an uncertain future and smothered by hundreds of troops inundating the city, stretching its resources. Carlo Emmanuel ii. He was the guy occupying the city, the Duke of Savoy. He was really concentrating on winning his war, and as the French would say, you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. And right at this moment, his priority was looking after his army. So he lost little time in raising the taxes of the Cremonese, requesting food and finding lodgings for his boys. It seemed like Cremona was the egg to be cracked for this particular omelette. Here's Julian Thompson playing on his Filius Andrea Guarneri cello that Del Gesu finished for his father after he fell Ill.

    Joe Bain talking about Del Gesu’s instruments of the 1730s after his father falls ill and he returns to help out.

    Joe Bein

    Right. And that's just, I mean, and, and, and I think it was Duane Rosengard and Carlo Chiesa who discovered that his father was medically, uh, you know, was he, he was in a hospital and he was unable to work and that he was, they used a phrase that normally was associated with somebody being terminally ill. But you know, thankfully he lived another decade. Um. That's, and that's, you know, that story is then sort of like the impetus for that cello, you know, the cello and so, you know, for those who don't know, there's a sort of a, there's a single Guarneri Del Gesu cello, as far as I'm aware anyway, and this is a Violin it's from 1730 and has an original Filius Andrea Guarneri label. But when you look at it has these like very vertical F holes, and then the wings just kind of like bend because there's that like awkward transition that you see in a lot of his instruments from that period. And the scroll is a de Guarneri Del Gesu scroll. And, you know, he Guarneri Filius Andrea was physically unable to build that instrument. Yeah. And so, um, you know, and that was something that kind of was floated around as a Giuseppe Guarneri Filius Andrea, but there were these internal records from, from the Hills or from Jacques Francais or from Wurlitzer being like, I see a lot of Del Gesu’s here, but they just didn't think he built any cellos. But then when it became obvious that, or when, when it became known that he was unable to actually, that fearless was unable to build anything that year, then we recognized like, oh, this is a Del Gesu Cello. Yeah. And it's the one, but yeah. But for me it's like the, I think the heart is the first one that really kind of like transitions into something different, you know?

    And then we get the Kreisler of course. Hmm. you know, just a couple years later, which is, I think people have called it 30 and you know, you could also, you know, say maybe it's more like a 33. But you know, to me like those, those two fiddles kind of transition into something different. Sorry. And then when, is there a time where you see, 'cause he has really beautiful wood Guarneri Del Gesu often, and is there a time when it that starts, like there's a moment where he's obviously acquired this really nice, um, maple, you know, it's not like, to me it's not like, it's not as clear cut to me. Like with, with Antonio Stradivari where clearly something happens in like 1699 and like you start seeing like there's a violin called the Reese, which is a gorgeous long pattern when all of a sudden he's importing this like fancy maple from the north. He stops using like the local oppio that most all of his predecessors in Cremona use, but certainly, you know, by like, you know, 30, 31, 32, 33, like, he's starting to use things that look, you know, pretty flashy. Um, like the Baltic for example. You know, I mean, that's a gorgeous one piece back that is something that you would see on a Carlo Bergonzi violin from the same period actually, so, you know, was there. And so, and what date, what date is that? The Baltic is right around like 31. 31, um, you know, 31, 32.

    The Dankla also is an early example, which has a beautiful one piece back but, you know, but the, it's, I'm curious, like, is there a connection between that supply of Maple and the Maple that Carlo Bergonzi was using to make his most beautiful instruments between, you know, 33 and 38 roughly? You know, do you think they're similar?

    The wood it's similar, I mean, it's also similar to like really beautiful one piece backs that Alessandro Galliano used, you know, so, you know, hundreds of miles away in Naples, so I don't know if there's a connection or not. And is it similar to Pietro Guarneri of Venice's wood? I, I don't know if I read that somewhere. And then I was thinking, oh, maybe his brother could have bought some wood and sent him some wood.

    But, but yeah, he could have, I mean, you know, there's a, I mean, I think like their, like their relationship and how it existed after their father became ill is, is fascinating to me. And, you know, did, did they ever see each other? Did they communicate? Did they. Did they spend the summer with one another? I mean, like, who knows?

    Linda Lespets

    He did. I mean, he came back when the father died. Yes. To the will. Mm-hmm. He did come back for that. Um, but that's the only one that they found the documentation of. But you know, they're not gonna make a legal document if he just goes for a holiday. Right. So, and then I was thinking after 1707, you've got the, um, the Austrians take control of Cremona. You've got all the right, the Spanish are pushed out. And so that's got to do with that also affects trade. So their trade links with Spain will stop and it opens up all of the Holy Roman empire. So it'll, it's opening up to all the Austrian, uh, and that's where you get the flood of cheap Austrian instruments 'cause of the trade.

    Joe Bein

    Got it.

     So the, the geopolitics has a, maybe a role in it as well. Yeah, and I think if you, um, I think if you look at Peter Guarneri of Venice's work, there is a period at like right at 1739 or 1740 when he uses, in my opinion, like by far and away his flashiest one piece back maple instruments. And does that come from Eastern? Where does that come from? Do we know where that, that would come from?

    Joe Bein

    Normally that, normally that comes from north, like in the Baltic regions. Yeah. Um, and that's, that needs to be imported. So he would've had greater access to it, probably in Venice than, you know, being Cremona. Um, but in 1739, 40, that's when you get the Baron Knoop, um, which is sort of like, which is kind of the trophy specimen. Peter of Venice. Um, that's in the Fondazione , um, permanently, but you also get the Beatrice Harrison Jello of like 39 and you get, there's like a series of like six or seven instruments that have this just like gorgeous one piece back. Um, and, and there it's a flatter model and it's like they're fantastic sounding. And uh, but then the, the Beatrice Harrison, which was again one of Dave Fulton's cellos, um, the whole thing is made of that. Like the ribs are made of that, the back is made of that and it's like the most glamorous cello I've ever been around. Um, just bar none. But anyway. But then with Del Gesu then, you know, you have these, like really, I think you have these wonderful instruments like the Kreisler, and you have, there are two Lafonts.

    There's a Lafont that's like from 36 that has like a two piece oppio back that Nigel Kennedy played on. And it has a scroll by the maker, but what's not original. And then, that's a great fiddle, but there's a, there's a 1733 Lafont that belongs to the Chime Foundation. And that also to me like that's this transition, you know, where he is getting out of this narrow wasted pattern and it's becoming, becoming more of what we recognize. And again, like the upper eyes become a little bit better. Um, and that's a fiddle that if you, if you have the, the nerdy violin books that we all have, like that's in the, really nice 1730 to 1750 Cremona expo, uh, it's pictured. Mm-hmm. It's pictured in there, you know, but again, like those, you know, those upper wings, they like point straight up, you know, almost in some of these fiddles. And the, and the, the f setting is like very vertical. Um, it's almost like a goalpost in American football or something like that. But, and then I've always been fascinated by like, something happens in 1735 where like, you know, once you get to like 34, 35, you start seeing like the absolute masterpieces.

    Linda Lespets

    Wait a second. Wait, wait, wait. He's born in sixteen, ninety eight, thirty five. So he's almost at his midlife crisis.

    Jeo Bein

    Well, yeah, he didn't know, but he was actually at his like three quarters midlife crisis. 'cause he only lived to be 46. But unfortunately,

    Linda Lespets

     but maybe he was questioning his mortality and what he was making and so he's gone in a different direction.

    Joe Bein

    Well, yeah. I mean, aside from Stradivari, I mean, most of his friends and people he knew. Yeah. They, they didn't live as long. Um, but it's funny, there's like this dichotomy of instruments that happens in the middle of the 1730s. And so you have like, you know, you have the Diable and you have the Plowden and you have the Degville, um, you have the King, which is the one in Zagreb, which I've never seen, but I have, I've never heard of a bad thing I’ve heard it as just exemplary in every way. Uh, I haven't seen it since I was, I guess I was technically in the same room with it at the Guarneri exhibit at the Met in 1994, but, and get to touch it. Um, yeah, but I, I would love to spend some time with that fiddle. I've heard great things about it and I have wonderful pictures, but, um, but then there's these other types of violins that are like super tiny during the same period. So then he makes this like smaller pattern too. So there's like the Mary Portman and the Sennhauser. There is like the Huberman and like the Russian State instrument. And these are all like pretty, these are really tiny. These are almost like seven eighths and there's a lot. And then you start seeing these slab cutbacks too, uh, right around then. And there's not a lot of them, you know, for Del Gesu, but there's like a successive run of them in like this around 35. And so again, it's like the, it's the Sennhauser, the uh, the Russian State, uh, things like that. And so I'm, I've always been curious like what was going through his mind where it's like, uh, he's making like two very different types of violence at the same time. I mean, basically within 24 months. Okay. And like I said, it's like the, you know, the dabble and the, and the King and the Plowden. I mean, these are on the hill nine list, right? I mean, if, like, if we really had to pick the nine, you know, the Diable the King and the Plowden are all there, um, of the nine greatest Del Gesu’s according to the hills.

    Linda Lespets

    Why did they just, why didn't they do 10? Why did they do nine? That's so annoying.

    Joe Bein

     It is odd, isn't it? It's like, I don't know, is it just the English? Is it the British? Let's annoy everyone and do nine and not 10, because it's like, what? It wouldn't have killed them to put the vieuxtemps Yeah. It's like, well, why? Yeah. And it's like, what could your, you didn't put, you didn't want put the Vieuxtemps Del Gesu on top there, like to make it 10. Like would anybody object to that?

    Linda Lespets

    Um, could you, sorry, could you talk to me about, um, oppio wood? 'cause you've mentioned it a few times. Could you just explain? Um, so to me, um, Oppio wood is, uh, the maple that is indigenous to the Lombardi region where they all lived and made. And so looking at, um, and it's usually it's a narrower curl, like when you're looking at the back. So the, the horizontal lines are narrower, in other words. And you see it, increasingly, especially with the, with the Cremonese makers of the 17th century. You see it on Andrea Guarneri's and you see it on Rugeri's and you see it on early Stradivari’s and you see it on, um, you know, Amati’s aside from maybe like some of the really glamorous slab cut grand patterns that Nicolo made in the fifties, but that's what was available.

    It, it seems like it wasn't until, you know, I mean, and, and this is true today too, like you can, you can sometimes judge a maker's success by like the quality of their materials or any craftsman for that matter, uh, not just the violin trade. It wasn't until Stradivari with his incredible success throughout the 1680s and the 1690s that he then was able to import this more expensive maple from the north. So the north we believe is like, you know, the Baltic region. It's almost like Croatia area. And you see this transition, like there are some 1699 fiddles. Like if you look at Gil Shaham's Stradivari, the Princess Polignac Antonio Stradivari that has a twin to it called the Reese. And they both have this back. And you see these early, the early 18th century fiddles, like oh 1, 0 2, 0 3, like the lady Harmsworth Stradivari and uh, the Irish and things like that. And they have this back and this wood just, it wasn't there and it had to come from somewhere else. And it seems like because he was so wildly successful and wealthy, he had the means to bring in the finer materials. And maybe with all the wars, the trade was disrupted as well. And it was easier to get locally source, timber.

    Christopher ruining.

     Okay. And I actually put a last sort of period for Guarneri Filius Andrea, and that was from after his medical condition, 1730 to 1740. And that was just him, his production of scrolls for his son. That's right. I, I'm, I'm quite sure that, well, we don't know. I, I do know a couple of very. Old man violins without labels that were all his work and who knows if those were made in 25 or 23 or 32, or you know, who knows? I mean, we just don't know. Not a single label in there. Yeah. And I find it's hard to talk about Elia Andrea without talking about Jesu. 'cause they really are intertwined. It's, it's not this linear thing. They're, they're, um, yeah, they do sort of dipping in each out of the, the work.

     That's really interesting. But I, I think it's interesting to, to pay attention to something else that happened right around 29 and 30 17, 29, 17 30. Pivotal time in Cremona because in 29, Filius went in the hospital for whatever reason. You don't go in the hospital unless it's really serious in those, in those days and it apparently he never made any more instruments after that. Yeah, he made scrolls. That's the time that Giovanni Batista, Stradivari died. He was the third son who was the heir to Stradivari. And when he died, Stradivari wrote his last will and testament, you know, seven different versions of it, and, um, apparently came out of some semi-retirement. So, so those are three huge pivotal events in the violin making world, in, you know, in, in a very short time span. And if you look at what happened to Del Gesu. And to Bergonzi, they both went from being probably some kind of part-time violin maker to very productive violin makers who also transform their models significantly. And they transformed their models in the same direction. They started to make the closest they ever came to Stradivari. That's when, Del Gesu started making the violins that looked like the Kreisler. Which the Stradivari of all, that group of instruments, the Hart the Kreisler.

    There's a group of those violins that all look like Antonio Stradivari’s They all were made around 29, 30, 31, that period of time. And same thing with Carlo Bergonzi he started becoming a very productive violin maker. Instead of making very few instruments a year, he, he started being a very productive maker. And he made, he changed his model to a really close to Antonio Stradivari, right? So why, why did that happen? Maybe they saw there was a opportunity the, the young heir dies from Antonio Stradivari, and the only people left are three very old men in Stradivari shop. Maybe Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu and Carlo Bergonzi both thought there was a business opportunity to become serious full-time violin makers.

    The city of Cremona had about 20,000 citizens. Where did Carlo Emmanuel think he was going to lodge his 12,000 troops? There were only so many resources to go round, Guarneri Del Gesu’s Father, even now, is telling his son stories of the invasion of Cremona in his younger years when he, the younger Giuseppe, was a small boy and the streets were filled with badly behaved French soldiers. Inflation was ridiculous and it was “shameful”. A neighbour piped in on the way the military had expelled the inhabitants of the monasteries to set up hospitals for their soldiers. Where were these good people supposed to go? The Austrians had treated them well, but these French and Pierre Monte were encourage able.

    For three years, they would stay in Cremona. The winter months were the worst. The military campaigns would stop and thousands of rowdy troops had to be entertained, or they would wreak havoc in the town. Even now, there were reports at the market of the countryside emptying because of the soldier's incessant farm raiding. The prior Saint Augustino would tell anyone who is willing to listen that over the years of occupation, 17,000 soldiers died in the monastery/hospital. In Cremona troops on both sides of the conflict were committing countless acts of vandalism in the countryside surrounding Cremona. And where does this leave our violin maker you ask? Well, Del Gesu was 35 years old and the youngest violin maker in town. In fact, the formidable Stradivari and his elegant workshop may have been out of reach for many, a young player, but the younger Guarneri was so much more approachable and affordable. There were hundreds of soldiers in town these days. They needed entertainment, and Del Gesu had never been so busy in his professional life than he was in these years in which the city was occupied. The years 1732 to 1736 were the most productive of his life. The older Giuseppe was helping out making scrolls. But what of Guarneri Del Gesu’s wife, Caterina? She was able bodied and had no children to look. After the couple lived in cramped accommodations with five other families, what would she have been doing all day? Cremona was in a militarily strategic position and an ideal spot for a war council or two staying in town were foreign aristocrats and seeing as there was no local theatre, ugh, such a boar. Well, they brought their own entertainment, musicians arrived in Cremona with the army and lost no time in making friends with the local minstrels. Together they founded L’accademia musicale,  musical academy that performed and taught young musicians that were now more and more in demand with the influx of military troops. The majority of these musicians were violinists. And so despite the ravages of war, the musical culture of Cremona, in fact, benefited from this trying period do. Del Gesu was making violin after violin, and perhaps the speedy execution of some of his work can be understood in this context, business was going well. Del Gesu’s father was able to pay off some of his debts, and finally there was a functioning working relationship between father and son.

    John Dillworth, talking about the production coming out of the Guarneri workshop in Cremona in these years.

    And they, and they were making them for a, I think for a working clientele, you know, for actual musicians. So they were driven by what the musicians wanted rather than what, um, the Duke of Burgundy wanted or, you know, to furnish his chateau, you know? Yes. Until he, until Filius's death. And it was 1738, wasn't it? Um, and I, there seemed to be one or two left that Guarneri Del Gesu was able to use for a year or so after that. The very earliest Del Gesu’s have his own scroll on them up to 17, 29, 30. Yeah. And they're clearly the same work that reappears in 1739, 1740 to the end. It's the same style. The ones in between from 30 to 38 are exactly the same as. Filius is earlier work. It was one thing he could do. You know, maybe he, yeah, he was just sat down that he could, and I mean, he'd been doing it all his life. He could cut out a scroll in 10 minutes and that's what he did. Um, and Del Gesu used them and, and I think Guarneri frankly wasn't interested in scrolls at all. And the ones that he makes they are so weird. Well, I, it's, you know, it's not even, this is my late in life controversial idea that really Del Gesu did not care. He was like all these, like his father, you know, they were in poverty, they had problems and um, he had a wife to support. He didn't have any children to help him. I mean, children were an asset. They weren't necessarily a, a burden once you had children. Oh, you can, they, become your assistant at the age of 10 or something. You know, you didn't have that and he tried being a, an innkeeper for a bit, or, but it was the only thing he knew how to do. It was the only thing he could do, but he was basically not that bothered.

    Finally, in 1735, the French put on their nice Italian leather boots and marched or ambled out of Cremona and left the city to the Austrians once again. Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu had been doing so well in these last few years. He was almost sorry to see them go, but what happened when one third of a city's population literally just walks away, is this. Cheap real estate. Woo. There were free houses to rent now that all the French troops were gone, and he had done well for himself in these last few years. So Katarina and Del Gesu moved into a new home, a small building, all to themselves. In the year 1736, the immense strain these soldiers had been putting on the resources of the city was now over, and yet it left a void as well. Now that the war was over and the carnival season was coming up, the people of Cremona were not just celebrating Easter that was soon to arrive, they were celebrating the fact that the army had left town, and now they could breathe a sigh of relief and party maybe a bit too much according to the notary diarist Cavali who noted with disdain in a diary entry, “the carnival season, culminating in an excessive display during this bacchanalia,” this excessive display of merriment by the common people was a bit too much for him. The French were gone and had turned over the city to the Austrians once again.

    Jonathan Marolle talking about this period where Del Gesu goes back and is working with his father in the thirties.

    There's a shift when you see that he's responsible for, carving the scrolls. You can see that the, on Del Gesu instruments, you can clearly recognize when a scroll is made by Filius Andrea, but the rest of the violin is made by Del Gesu. That's where it started to, uh, design his model, this new model so you have beautiful instrument. I think the best to me, instruments made in the thirties. I'm thinking of the Camp 1738, for instance, which is absolutely, um, wonderful instrument, stunning instrument. The Adam, also in the same year. Yeah. Many beautiful instruments with nice wood, nicely done actually, you know, with a good, good work. Like the quality of the work is great is, uh, the outline, the purfling, the wood used and the quality of the varnish. It's very beautiful. It's not as neat and precise as a, a beautiful Stradivari of course, but it's clearly a maker capable of crafting beautiful instruments. So I, yeah, I would say this is the, the, the second period

    Joe Bein,

    you know, you have this highly prolific workshop. You have as people, I think know of these, all of these wonderful instruments in the, in the middle of the thirties, most of them have scrolls by his father. So, I mean, that's kind of like a, an acknowledged fact for, the listeners is that the early and late Del Gesu’s seem to have, you know, they have his individual scrolls, whereas the middle period ones generally have scrolls that are made by Guarneri Filius Andrea or made by his father. So you have this like, yeah, you have this very interesting thing in the middle of the 1730s where he's, you know, alternating between making these like real masterpieces that are, you know, still today, considered some of the most beautiful violins on earth and he is making some of these smaller pattern instruments as well to try and mix it up. And then you get to this next period for me where it's like, you know, 37, 38, you know, for me it's like, I think if you look at these three great makers in Cremona in the 1730s and you have Carlo Bergonzi and Guarneri del Gesu and of course Antonio Stradivari and. For me, and I think you, you see, they're like, they're all kind of on the same path. And I would consider like Del Gesu and Bergonzi to be very, you know, to be more Stradivarian in their composition. You know, 35, 36, 37. They're more symmetrical. They're more even, they seem to be following a certain, you know, type of making and a certain style. And then, you know, with Del Gesu, I think, you know, the peak of that might be the Kemp, which has an original label for 1738. But I wonder if like the Kemp was like made it the beginning of 1738 because there's only one thing that happened in Cremona in December of 1737.

    So what happened in 1737? Well, you'll have to wait for the next episode to find that one out because we are still hanging around in the early 1730s here. So we're back in Cremona. It's the early 1730s, and our young Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu has returned home. He's back working alongside his father. Something he probably would've preferred not to do, but well then here we are and after years of drifting, trying his luck elsewhere, maybe even working in another workshop, he is back where it all began. Only now things are different. The instruments he's making don't quite look like his father's anymore. And there's a new feel, a new confidence as if Del Gesu is finally starting to find his own voice. His father, Giuseppe Fillus. Andrea is older now unwell, carving scrolls in the corner while his son finishes off the instruments he can't complete together. They're producing the last of the filius Andrea violins. But it is clear the torch is being passed, and as this is going on, Cremona itself is in chaos. The war of the Polish succession has spilled into Italy. Soldiers are marching through the streets. Taxes have tripled. It's a lot. But in the middle of all that noise in this small, dusty workshop, Guarneri Del Gesu is quietly reinventing himself. This is where the story really starts to shift, where Del Gesu begins to step out of his father's shadow and into his own skin.

     

    As the 1730s unfold, we find Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu back where it all began in the family workshop side by side with the father. He once tried to escape. Together. They finished the last instruments of filius Andrea, the old master carving scrolls from his corner bench while his son stamps his independence with a new label, a simple IHS a sign that will one day make him immortal, around them Cremona trembles under the weight of soldiers', boots in the sting of new taxes. The war of the Polish succession has reached their doors, and yet amid the noise of marching armies and hammering hooves, people still need their violins, don't they ever? These are the years of transition of endings and beginnings. When the sun's voice starts to rise above the fathers, the label reads Del Gesu, and a new chapter in Violin making is just beginning.

    Well, Del Gesu’s chapter anyway, in our next episode, we'll step deeper into this golden period when Del Gesu’s style grows bolder, freer, and becomes unmistakably his own. And let's admit it a bit weird, even as the world around him unravels in war.

    I'd like to thank my lovely guests, Jonathan Marolle, Joe Bein, Christopher Reuining, and John Dilworth.

     

    Thank you for listening to this episode of The Violin Chronicles. Be sure to subscribe and sign up to Patreon if you haven't done so already. And now we are going to continue for the Patreons. Thank you for listening to this episode of The Violin Chronicles.

    And now we are going to continue for the Patreons in this Patreon bonus episode. We'll be having extra content from the interview I have with Joe Bein and in the. Discussion I have with Antoine will be looking at the mysterious back central pin amongst other characteristics to tick off your, you know, police detective notepad when looking at instruments.
  • The Violin Chronicles Podcast

    Ep 40. Del Gesu Part 4. "The Master and His Cello: Exploring the Hands of Del Gesu with Julian Thompson"

    11/12/2025 | 28 mins.
    DEL GESU PART 4. The Violin Chronicles: Interview with Julian Thompson on His Antique Cello
    In this episode of the Violin Chronicles, we sit down with Julian Thompson, a distinguished cellist with the Australian Chamber Orchestra since 2006. Julian shares fascinating insights into the unique 1729 Giuseppe Guarneri cello he's been playing for the past eight years. We delve into the history, craftsmanship, and intricate details of this extraordinary instrument, including its complex provenance and distinctive features. Julian also discusses the quirks of playing such a historic cello, from its responsiveness to various climates to how its rich history impacts his playing style. Additionally, we touch upon the differences in construction techniques between Baroque and modern instruments, exploring how these methods influence their sound and playability. Join us for an in-depth look at one of the most remarkable cellos in existence and gain a deeper appreciation for the artistry involved in its creation and performance.
     
    Transcript 
     

     Welcome back to the Violin Chronicles. In this episode, I'll be talking to Julian Thompson, cellist extraordinaire, who has been playing with the Australian Chamber Orchestra since 2006. Overly accomplished musician that he is. We are going to concentrate on his instrument in this interview. What is it? I hear you asking. Well, I will let him do the honours.

    Julian Thompson

    I'm Julian Thompson. I play cello with the Australian Chamber Orchestra for the last. 20 years.

    Linda Lespets

    Wow. And, and what, what instrument do you play?

    Julian Thompson

    So, I am lucky enough to have had in my hot hands for probably about the last eight years a beautiful 1729 Giuseppe Guari cello which I understand has a, possibly, has a slightly complicated providence.

    Linda Lespets

    Do you know when it sort of changed identity?

    Julian Thompson

    I, I don't know exactly when. I just know that there's been quite a lot of speculation that the hand of Jesu may have played a part in the, the, the table of the cello and maybe the scroll as well. So it's, it's that cello, I think it's really late. And there's another cello that certainly has a lot of Del Gesu a different form, apparently that one. This one's still in the, in the older form. The, the fathers, the Guarneri Filius Andrea, that's right. But the, the experts out there seem to say that yeah, because of some of the features, the specific features of, of the wood and the scroll and, and the, maybe the f holes as well. That they think that there's certainly the hand of Del Gesù in part of this cello, so that's pretty special.

    Linda Lespets

    Yeah. Yeah, because there's the other cello is the messias I think it's called. Mm-hmm. Where they say it's all Del Gesù Mm. So there's this sort of idea that he never made cello, but he has, he has indeed made a cello, a full one. And then why not? Bits of one? Well, I guess you can imagine if he, if he's around working in the workshop and Giuseppe's getting older, then you would imagine there would be, I guess an increasing amount of work done.

    Julian Thompson

    And there's also been talk about, and you, you probably know a lot more about this, about. Sort of illnesses at various points and whether that meant that Giuseppe Guarneri wasn't in the studio for a while and then, you know Del Gesù maybe had to take the reins there more, more solidly for a period.

    Linda Lespets

     Yeah. So what happened was Del Gesu, he moved out of home when in 1722, he left.

     

    And his brother Pietro of Venice had left in 1717 to go to Venice. That, so it was just him. His dad was kind of really bad with money and pretty much like very heavily indebted. So Del Gesù was like a young man. He was married and so he moved away. Because his, it was just a black hole basically working in his dad's workshop because he owed so much, so much money to so many different people. Yeah. So he moved away, but then in 1729, 1730, when your cello's made, he had, he was very ill. He went to hospital. And normally if you went to hospital, then it was like you were dying. Yeah. You didn't wanna hang around in a hospital. But then he sort of miraculously recovered. He comes home, but he was, he couldn't really do, he couldn't really make a full instrument again. Right. He could make scrolls, but that was it. And then Del Gesù sort of comes back to help his father because his parents are sort of in bit of dire straits at that point. Yeah. And so you can imagine that there was just this cello, it just needed the belly made and he finished it. And put the label in. And the other one, the other cello that is like a hundred percent Guarneri Del Gesù that they say it's a hundred percent Del Gesù The label is 1731. So that's two years later. Right. And that's the very last label of the father a Guarneri Filius Andrea. Okay. That we sort of know of. So maybe he was there and he was like, look, I'm just gonna make this cello. His dad, like dad's label him, and that, that's it, that's the end of the father's sort of official work output. But yeah it can, it can make sense that the belly was made by Del Gesù because the way instruments were made then are different to how they're made today. They were made in a different order of steps. So for example, today you'll make the rib structure.  You'll make the front and the back. So then you've got the body, and then you make the scroll. And you put the scroll. Like you encrust the scroll in. You stick the scroll on. But the Renaissance no, the Baroque Instruments, you made the rib structure, then you made the scroll, and then you nailed the scroll onto the rib structure. So you had sort of like looking like a bit like a tennis racket. Then with that frame, you made the back, you finished the back, you stuck the back on, and then the very last step was to make the belly, right? Yeah. Right. So maybe the, the, the scroll, the ribs and the back were made and the label was already in Maybe that label was already in. And then when Izzy comes back, like maybe. A year. Maybe if he comes back in 1730, say, he just goes, I'll just finish it. I'll make the, the belly. Yeah. And, and that's it. Get that thing, get that thing finished and sell it. Try and get, get out of a bit more debt. Yeah, and maybe there was a bit of, there was one more bit of cello because you can tell like, is the wood on your instrument?

    Julian Thompson

    It's, it's quite mismatching, isn't it? Like the, the ribs aren't the same as the back and the Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's an interesting, it's an interesting cello for sure. It's, yeah, the, the front of it is, is, I think it's three pieces, but it's actually quite hard to see because the, the grain is really well matched. It's really fine grained on the front and kind of even across. But then the back is this really coarse grained.

    Linda Lespets

     I think, is it Poplar? Is it, it's slab cut, isn't it? It's cut. Like, instead of being cut like a piece of cake, yeah, it's cut like. Like length, you cut straight across the Yeah, so it's, it's, it's a totally different texture of the back.

    Julian Thompson

    Yeah, really different. And it's got this, like, it's almost like someone, I'm not quite sure what's happened at the bottom, but it's like someone's left an iron on it. It's got a really different colour of varnish down the bottom. Much darker kind of the shape of an iron. Oh, okay. Yeah. I don't know if Yeah, what's happened there, but it's and then, yeah, the ribs are, the ribs are different again, so it's so they look pretty uniform, the back's its own thing. And then the front's its own thing. And the scroll, from what I remember, it's, it's, it's not maple, is it? I think it's beach, maybe different wood.

    Julian Thompson

    That's not maple, not maple. And it's almost like he was looking around and he just grabbed whatever bits of wood were hanging around. Mm-hmm.

    Absolutely it does. Although, although the front of it, I'm, I'm often, when I look at this cello, I'm amazed. Like, you, you really can't even see where the joins are because the grainage, it just seems really well matched, so that that part of it at least looks really deliberate. It's very fine.

    Linda Lespets

    Can I just see the belly again?

    Julian Thompson

    Yeah. Do you think it's almost, could it almost be like violin wood that they used for. Because normally you'd use like a thicker wood for a cello, wouldn't it? Like the wider green lines? Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah, it does look more sort of violin, fineness of the grain, and it's all the way across it. I, I played at another, another Guarneri there for a bit at 1721 Guarneri, which it had much, much coarser grainage. It was interesting because it had, I think it had the grainage. I guess you'd kind of, I, I don't know if this makes any sense, but you kind of feel that intuitively you might want to put a grainage on the, on the base side and a finer grainage on the treble side, but I think that Yeah, that's what some makers do.

    Linda Lespets

    Yeah. They do that I think that Grancino actually had the opposite of that. So it had really coarse grainage on the treble side. Cool. And do you know so your cello's called the Weiss cello? We, yep. Is that like Weiss Bars?

    Not Weiss Bars no, not be confused with Weiss bars. No, no. So this, I was like, maybe he would, maybe that philanthropist like made all his money from ice cream.

    Julian Thompson

    No, no, this, so this cello was, given gifted to the ACO by Peter Weis, the Australian businessman and sort of fashion designer. Oh yeah. And he fashioned not ice cream. Yeah. And he, loved, he loved the cello, he played the cello as a younger man. And was always very interested in, you know, supporting the arts and supporting the cello in particular. And so Tippy, our principal cello found this cello at Bears must be about, about 16 years ago or something like that. And then Peter provided, the funds and the support to buy it and bring it back. Yeah, so we've had it since then.

    Linda Lespets

    Cool. Cool. Do you feel like playing on an instrument that has the, like the history that your one does, is it different to play sort of, is it different playing an instrument in the knowledge of the history that it's had as opposed to say, a modern instrument?

    Julian Thompson

    I think, yeah, look, I do think it's different. I think you pay more attention to the personality of the instrument. There's something about. The gravitas that the tool brings to the table that makes you pay attention. Maybe work a little bit harder to find the voice of that instrument or to match your voice with the voice of that instrument, whereas maybe with a more modern instrument, I mean, they've got their own personalities too, and they need, you know, playing in and treatment in a certain way. But maybe in some ways you feel a bit more like you. You bring your personality to that relationship and you try and shape the instrument to your personality because you know it's young and malleable, and hopefully it'll, it'll develop in, into the traits that you would like the instrument to have. You know this. Whereas playing this, you know, almost 300 year old Giuseppe Guarneri, it's got pretty strong ideas about what it likes to do and what it doesn't like to do. And then you sort of mould your playing quite a lot around its strengths. Yeah. Wow.

    Linda Lespets

    Do you reckon you're gonna do something for its 300th birthday? It's coming up.

    Julian Thompson

    Yeah. We're gonna have a massive party. It's gonna be a blinder. And the cello can just stand in the corner. Yeah. Give it a drink. Yeah, exactly. Little wedge, your little champagne. Yeah. Yeah, no, look, it's a really, it's a really beautiful cello. It, I think having the, the softer back gives it some really interesting characteristics. It certainly, it needs a lot of warming up and a certain kind of playing to make it really sound its best. And somehow I feel like, and this is just intuitive, I feel like that's partly to do with the, the strength of the wood in the back that needs a different kind of treatment.

    Linda Lespets

     Yeah. Yeah. It'll probably have bigger thicknesses I imagine as well. Right. With slab cut wood, normally you have to leave it a bit thicker. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because it's less structurally strong than, so what's it been like, your journey playing with the instrument? What was it like when, you know, when you first, do you remember the first time you played on it?

    Julian Thompson

     I do. Yeah, I do. I mean, that would've been in the early days when it came out to Australia and we all had a go on it then. And this cello. It's just one of those really celloy cellos, you know, there are cellos out there that are, that have a really sort of tenor voice. And there are some cellos out there that have a really, you know, a really basey voice. And I think this cello just has that archetypical, beautiful, strong, woody, rich cello voice in the kind of baritone register. Super silky, even across the board, beautifully woody textured. You can really hear the wood in this cello. Yeah, and it's a really sort of tactile cello to play. You can really get into it and feel a lot with your hands certainly more than some other cellos that just kind of go and do their own thing. Yeah, so for me, this cello really has a really sort of archetypical cello voice. Yeah. It has those sweet, sexy, low tones and you know, it's got all the, all the sweet tops as well. But this cello you have to up, especially up the top. It's one of those cellos that you can kind of dig into as hard as you want and can, and it'll still keep giving you rewards a bit like. I mean, I, I know some of these the Del Gesù violins, you have to attack them quite differently to the way you attack some of the str violins, for example, the Stradivari’s sort of go and you have to give them enough space to go. Whereas the del Gesù violins, you can really dig deep and just keep digging deeper and it just keeps punching out. The good sound, I, I think there are, it's probably the same with violins, but some cellos. You know, once you start the string speaking, it's, you have to be cautious with how much you manipulate the string vibrational sound because it can almost disturb the frequency that's resonating inside the belly. And so if, if you're not careful, you can actually make complications. Whereas this instrument has beautiful internal resonance, but you can really shape the notes a lot within each note without having to worry too much about that disturbance.

    Linda Lespets

     And do you find does it change a lot when you travel? Because you do a lot of travel, international travel. Does it do, do you, do you, now that you've been with it for such a long time mm-hmm. Do you sort of know its little quirks, like what's gonna happen to it if you go somewhere really dry or humid?

    Julian Thompson

    Yeah, yeah. No, it's she's a bit of a fickle mistress in that regard I mean, look, all instruments are, but some more than others. Certainly this instrument, yes, I know, I know its habits quite well. So there are certain climates that the instrument really loves and sounds great in. And so the, the cooler climates and drier climates are when the instrument really s sits together and integrates its best. And yeah, so, so winter in Australia is great. Sort of shoulder seasons in Europe are great. What it really doesn't like. The hot, humid summers of Sydney. And so that's, that's often a bit of a bummer because it, it's just like, almost like you would imagine, it's like the wood becomes, it comes a bit soggy, you know? I mean, even though I keep it in a pretty climate controlled environment, it's still. It absorbs, it must absorb a, a decent amount of humidity from the air and it really changes how well the thing speaks. It still sounds great, but it's just not as easy to play. And then, and then of course you go from a hot, humid Australian summer to a cold European, dry European winter, and then the wood has to adjust to that again. So. As a player, you just have to be very sort of understanding and nurturing of the instrument and you know, push it as far as you think it can be pushed, but not, not push it too far and work around.

    Linda Lespets

    Yeah. Changes. Yeah. And so for people listening to this, I have a lot of American listeners, Uhhuh, you are in the ACO and your A CO rehearsal studios. Can you explain exactly where they are? Right. The Australian Chamber Orchestra. That's right. Rehearsal studios. Yeah.

    Julian Thompson

    So yeah, the Australian Chamber Orchestra Rehearsal spaces Now. Just on the far side of the, of, of Harbor Bridge. Of the Harbor Bridge, yep. The harbor bridge. And out on a pier. So actually over water, over Sydney Harbor. You're literally on the water. On the water. If you like drill a hole down, you're in the water. That's right. Yeah. So it is a potentially humid environment. It's all Look, it's all, it's all climate controlled inside. Yeah. It's a brand new building, right? Brand new building. It's beautiful. Sydney is. Sydney does get pretty humid over summer, but like, I mean, I lived in Indiana for a while and you know, I was very surprised the first summer I had in Indiana it was, it was like a hundred percent humidity in 35 degrees. It was a total surprise. And winter was like minus 10 and snow. Yeah. At the same time, maybe, you know, the fact that it goes through these changes, it's part of how the instrument ages, I suppose. If it's, yeah, I don't know. I don't know the difference. It'd be interesting to see the difference. Like, it's hard, you can't really do a control like every instrument's different, but to have a, you know, instruments that sit in museums all the time Mm. And are not particularly played, but have really controlled temperature as opposed to one that's out and about.

    Julian Thompson

    Yeah. Yeah. Well, it, you have to imagine it must be, these instruments have seen a lot of seasons, a lot of different, playing a lot of. Possibly fellow periods of not being played that much for a while, and that all has to play a role. I mean, you must see it with, with, with, you know, all the instruments that, that you see that these instruments, if, if they're not played for a decent period of time, even weeks or sometimes days or months, when you come back to them, they, they sound really different. Like they need to be played back in. Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, I, I always think that, you know, the cumulative vibrations of almost 300 years of playing different things at different pictures with different strings in different places, it has to play a role on the evolution of that wood and how it fits in that form.

    Linda Lespets

    Yeah. They're almost like little living beings and it's made with an organic product and yeah. And every. It's, I like the fact that it's almost impossible to do to approach it scientifically. Mm-hmm. You can't have, there's no control. Every instrument is different. You can control things to a certain point, but at the end of the day, it's like saying, you know, all my kids are the same. Yeah. Like, 'cause I'm, they're all, every instrument is different, will react differently depending on what's happening to it. And you could, you could use the same materials, same person, same thing. You'll end up with something completely different. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Do they all have their own DNA which I like.

    Julian Thompson

    I mean, that's, that's one of the joys though too of, of playing these old instruments is that, you know, they are a bit moody and you have, with that moodiness, you have days where, you know, you really have to think hard about how you get the best out of the instrument that day. And other days though, when obviously the instrument's feeling great, when it can just do whatever, and it sounds fantastic. I don't know. I feel like if you had an instrument that just sounded amazing all the time, which, you know, these instruments do sound great all the time, but within a variety that then the responsibility's entirely with you. And that's tough. You never blame the instrument. That's right. Right. Now we, we did this crazy crazy film shoot for the  ACO over in, Narlu station over in the northwest of WA for this film, this surf film that we were making at the time, as you do as a chamber orchestra. And as part of that, we played a gig over there and it's, it's like full desert meets the sea kind of country. And we played a gig in the old shearing shed. It's an old sheep station over there. And played a gig for a bunch of, you know, fishermen and surfers in a shearing shed on Nalu Station. That was pretty cool.

    Was it hot?

    Man, they get hot. It was so hot. It was brutal.

    Did you get some fleece? Did they give you a bit of.

     

    Sheep F fleece?

    Nah, no fleece.

    Were they, they weren't shearing, were they?

    No, not shearing at that time. We did get some great footage and made a pretty pretty bang and film, so that was cool.

    Can you see it still?

    Yeah, it's out there. The reef, check it out. Not to the reef. Yeah, the reef. Yeah. It does look pretty much every, every summer season I need to get the edges reglued in some spot or another. So that's just a yearly cycle. That's, yeah. That's crazy.

    So that could be your sweat. You could have corrosive sweat. I've heard, is it up That is corrosive sweat? Is it up the top there? No, it tends to acidic. You could have acidic sweat. Yeah. No, it's got, so this one has a little plastic overlay. Oh. On that, That's it tends to be. And so this is something I wonder about too, that different people and how they play, create different stresses on different instruments. 'cause I find, oh yeah, the, the cellos that I play maybe because of how I play and I, I sometimes I play a lot of p cardo stuff and, they always seem to open in about the same spot.

    Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. And like maybe your bow stroke and like the bits that you make vibrate on the instrument.

    That's right. And it's on, it's on these, these granaries, but also on my modern instruments as well. And they often come open in exactly the same spot and need to be re reglued every season.

    Ah, that's so interesting. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you're like, yeah, no, it's my, my, your style of ungluing. That's it. Yeah. I'd like to thank Jillian for speaking to me and taking the time to tell us about his instrument. Then this is the end of this episode, but join me for the next episode where we continue on with the life and times of our hero, Guarneri Del Gesù.

     

    Remember to sign up and subscribe so you'll always know when new episodes are coming out. And a big thank you to my Patreons. Once again, if you're not a member of Patreon, go over to patreon.com/the violin chronicles and sign up and for extra content and extra episodes that you won't get on the other platforms.
  • The Violin Chronicles Podcast

    Ep 39. Del Gesu Part 3: The Wilderness years

    28/11/2025 | 23 mins.
    DEL GESU PART 3. In this episode we look at the mysterious years following Del Gesu's departure from his fathers workshop and his early independent work. This is a period in his life when our hero is in his prime and the instruments are all his own. The army is back in town and Giuseppe is putting new labels in his violins that today have all but disappeared, what statement is he trying to make here?

    Transcript

    Welcome back to the Violin Chronicles podcast. A show dedicated to the stories of history's greatest violin makers. My name is Linda Lespets, and if you haven't already done so, I would encourage you to sign up to Patreon, that's Patreon.com/the violin chronicles, where you can get extra episodes and extra content and to support the podcast if you felt that it has been useful and that you've learned so It would be very much appreciated.

    But here in this third episode, we're gonna jump in and have a look at what our violin maker is up to. So picture this, it's the early 1730s in Cremona. Our hero, the young Giuseppe Guarneri, is standing before the altar in the Church of San Pantaleone By special decree with the usual bands of marriage conveniently skipped. He weds Katarina, a German woman from Vienna, right under the watchful eyes of the Church's Vicar General. The witnesses are nobles and neighbours and the ceremony formal and blessed. Yet beneath her there is a hint of scandal because this wasn't just any marriage. Giuseppe Guarneri had married a foreigner from among what many locals saw as the occupying forces, and as if that weren't enough to raise eyebrows in Cremonas narrow streets he wasn't about to settle down at the family home on Piazza San Domenico, no Guarneri Del Gesu and his new bride were leaving. His brother had written from Venice boasting of steady work and success making instruments. Meanwhile, back home, Del Gesu’s father, the elder, Giuseppe, was drowning in debt and dragging the family workshop down with him. The house was falling apart, the business barely alive, and Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu knew that if he stayed, he'd sink with it. So he packed up his tools, took his young wife, and vanished from Cremona for a while. Or at least vanished from records. Where did he go? Honestly, no one's quite sure. These are what I like to call the wilderness years. A time when the trail goes cold and speculation begins and yeah, I like to speculate. Now remember this was the same era as Antonio Stradivari's Golden Period when Stradivari's instruments were gracing the salons of princes and patrons across Europe. But while Stradivari's clients were wealthy and insulated from the region's economic troubles, the rest of Cremona was in deep depression. The market for fine instruments had shrunk, and the city's famed liutaio were competing for a handful of buyers. Del Gesu must have wondered, what's the point of making violins here when no one's buying? So he didn't stop entirely. He continued to make the occasional instrument, but this time he refused to put his father's label inside. He wanted no association with the elder Giuseppe Guarneri, whose reputation was well, less than spotless. The old man owed money to half the city. His health was failing and his name wasn't one to build a future on, Guarneri Del Gesu’s new labels read. Giuseppe Guarneri Andrea Nepos (Giuseppe Guarneri, grandson of Andrea). He deliberately skipped his father's name, linking himself instead to his grandfather, the revered student of the great Nicolo Amati. It was a bold move, a quiet act of rebellion, and a statement of identity. I'm my own maker and I belong to the legacy of excellence, not the shadow of debt. He probably knew people would talk that it wasn't proper to make violins under a new name while his father still lived. But Del Gesu wasn't one to bow to convention. He had a new life, a new wife, and he had plans even if that meant wandering into obscurity for a while. And so began the lost years of Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu.

    For the next six years, our violin maker drops off the radar. He and Katarina may have left Cremona to try their luck elsewhere as for his father, Giuseppe, well, not much is done in his workshop for the next few years. He's unwell his sons have left him, and it's hard these days to get any clients. I mean, he didn't stop completely. Things had just slowed down a lot. In 1724 alone in his workshop, Giuseppe Guarneri Filius Andrea made a violin. The wood for the belly was from the same tree that Stradivari was making some of his violins from. Of course, the wood merchant would've passed at Stradivari’s workshop first, so he could get the best pieces before leaving him what was left over typical. Or did Antonio Stradivari have pity on his ailing neighbour, abandoned by his sons, and, and give him some wood to make an instrument and pay off some outstanding debts? A few years later, our Liutaio Guarneri Del Gesu reappears in town archives, but this time as a property developer. In 1728, Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu and his wife are now living in cramped quarters in the parish of San Nazario but in the mind of Del Gesu, this would not be for long because he had a plan. He was going to make some money, and not by making instruments, but on a much larger scale. He would renovate an old building, an inn called the Austeria del Mori Mori's Inn, just around the corner from where he and his wife are now living. Finally, the couple would have a place of their own. Okay. It was a bit of a fixer upperer but compared to living in an overcrowded house with a bunch of other families, the idea of this inn was a luxury. Through old friends from his days growing up in the Piazza San Dominico, Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu learnt of this establishment coming onto the market. And the owners were a well-known noble family in Cremona. The Mellelupe de Soragna, this noble family who lived in a town northwest of Cremona called Ludi, came down one evening and struck a deal with the young Guarneri couple. In October 1728, on the night of the 14th, after the hour of Vespers and with three lamps lit to illuminate the room, pretty fancy, they granted Giuseppe Guarneri Junour a letter of investiture. He would now have a perpetual lease for the sum of 100 lire per year. He was now the master of a large three story building with front and back exits and a centre courtyard or garden with the front of the inn facing the street. The inn belonged to Countess Victoria Meleloupe, after she inherited it from her father. It was a bit of a hot potato, really, because her sister was also laying claim to the property. So there was a family dispute going on, but in the meantime, why not lease it out to a young man willing to fix up the old place? It was falling down as it was at the moment. What could possibly go wrong? So Del Gesu takes on this dilapidated inn that needs a lot of TLC and funds, the repairs that, that he has to pay out of his own pocket. He can't move into the building just yet with his wife, and so they move into a house not far. When Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu has signed this lease just a few days ago, the agreement was perpetual and that meant he could renew it every year. He could really see himself here and to secure the bargain. There were clauses that included his and Katerina's future children and heirs. They were still not blessed with children, but they would come and they would all live in this comfortable home together. Here we are at a stage in this young couple's life where they are youthful, optimistic, and hopeful for a family. And to be able to run this inn as a business, if only they could fix it up enough, or were they thinking of having a workshop and living in the in themselves. The Guarneris will never have children or they, they may have planned to run the Inn. There is no evidence that they ended up doing this. Del Gesu is not a member of the Innkeepers Corporation. Even after he took on the lease, and this would have been compulsory if he wanted to open the austeria del Mauri as an inn. For the next year, Guarneri Del Gesu started to work renovating the building, but after months of toiling away, he realized that this was indeed hard work and he had to pay for the repairs himself. He just didn't have the cash for this to work. The dreams of renovating the Inn were short-lived, but he did know someone who could be interested in taking over the project. His current landlord, Giacomo Ciao, Ciao was a wealthy wood merchant originally from Milan, but he also dealt in property. Now you see wood was an essential material at the time in making well, almost anything. There was not an enormous choice of materials in a world where plastic did not exist, and metals were in short supply and far more costly than timber. So if you were dealing in timber, it was a sure thing why he had recently bought himself a house with the proceeds of a large supply of wood.

     

    So Giuseppe sells his lease to his landlord, and as we still don't know what our violin maker was up to in the next few years, perhaps he stayed on renovating the inn in the employ of his landlord Ciao. Guarneri was paid 300 Lira for the work he had already done on the building. And now Ciao saw an opportunity for a bit of property development himself. He buys the Inn outright from the feuding family, the Meleloupe, for 2,400 lira, and three years later, he flips the property selling the Austeria as a house for 4,170 liter. He would've been able to supply all the timber necessary for the works, and this would account for Del Gesus's whereabouts in this period. Here is Giuseppe, a young man full of energy, having a break from his father's disorganized finances and earning a salary for himself. And although he is out making an independent living for himself, unlike his father who was spiralling further into debt. He would've seen that renovating buildings was not the most effective way of earning a living. Well, for him anyway, for the years of work he did on the Inn, he was paid 300 lira. And to put this into perspective, Stradivari was selling his violins for 150 Lyra a piece. He was nonetheless still making the occasional instrument to make ends meet. Or was this the work of his wife Katerina? You know, just putting that out there. During these wilderness years in which we don't quite know what Guarneri Del Gesu was up to, we believe he used the label, Giuseppe Guarneri, Andrea Nepos. Today, only one genuine example of this label is known to us in the Kubler violin of 1728, both the early 19th century musicologist and biographer Francois Joseph Fetis, and found in the meticulous notes of Count Cosio instrument connoisseur of the late 18th and early 19th centuries. Both mentioned these labels found in dozes instruments.

     The young Giuseppe that is Del Gesu’s relationship with his father was a complicated one. He mused as he glued his label into yet another violin. In a town this size, it was almost impossible to distance yourself from family, but he did not want to be confused with his father. The older Giuseppe. These were his instruments and as an act of independence, he had had printed at the local, printed his very own labels. Did he want to be connected to his father by stating that he was his son? No, not really. How did he feel about his father running the family business into the ground? Only just this year, he sold off a part of the house to settle debts that he was never going to fully repay. No, he would not be confused with his father or even mention him, but Andrea, his grandfather, well, there was a man who had made something of himself building up the family fortune and learning from the very best there was, Nicolo Amati, he would gladly advertise that he was the grandson of this man, Giuseppe Guarneri Andrea nepos, (Giuseppe Guarneri, grandson of Andrea). This was his own independent work in these years without the influence of his father over his shoulder. Fun fact, in the past, people had believed that there was a second Giuseppe Guarneri because of these labels. In Italian, the word nepos can mean either nephew or grandson. I mean, how confusing is that? And so these instruments with the Giuseppe Guarneri Andrea Nepos label were thought to be by yet another maker, but were in fact the grandson, not the nephew of Andrea. Now to get a feel for the musical environment Del Gesu was finding himself in we have to consider a few things. Yes, we have left the Renaissance and we are well into the baroque With composers pulling on emotions and experimenting with contrast and tonal harmony, you have to think of your everyday  Giovanni Smith, he was not basking in classical music on a day-to-day basis. There were so many other avenues for music in daily life. Down at the local tavern, you would have heard ballads of love loss and local gossip played to, well-known tunes passed on orally from musician to musician. There was dance music, not like dance music, but music for dancing. Simple versions of jigs and bourres for festivals and celebrations. And then you had your military and professional music that a town such as Cremona would've been all over

     

    what with all the soldiers garrison there on and off over the years. And it would've been also to all these people that the Guarneri workshop would've catered for.

    Then his father fell ill again. His health had been a fragile thing these last few years, but now it looked really serious. He had been sent to the hospital and, and everyone knew what that meant. His chances of coming out alive were very slim to non-existent, but miracle of miracles. The man survived. Perhaps his family had prayed to the Saint Teresa, who the family for years have printed on their instrument labels. She is the patron saint of headaches and illness. The elder Giuseppe Guarneri came home in a much weakened state and the shock of seeing his parents in this vulnerable position saw the younger youthful Giuseppe Del Gesu back in San Domenico helping out his parents.

    The year is 1730 and Giuseppe Guarneri Del Gesu has come to a turning point in his life. He has been married to Katherina for eight years now, and they still have no children. Perhaps they will just have to accept that this is the way things will be. They will never have a brood of little ones buzzing around them as they work as Innkeepers. Katerina in particular, must have felt somewhat isolated, not having a family of her own. The relationship with her mother in-law appears strained at the best of times from the beginning. They had never lived with Giuseppe's parents like so many families would have done in those days. Perhaps the fact of her being a foreigner had never sat well with the in-laws and now there were no grandchildren in sight throughout the ages infertility has been a source of shame for women, even though it may not have been their own fault. It takes two to tango. Anyway Del Gesu had to do something to support his parents, but still keep a certain distance. So he sets up a workshop in downtown Cremona where he will throw himself into his work like he has never done before. Setting up business in the old family workshop was no longer an option. That space was rented out to a shoemaker now and who knew how much money his father owed to creditors. It was best for everyone that they leave that place alone. In 1731, Katarina was now 30 and Giuseppe her husband 34, they've left their cramped lodgings and moved to the parish of San Bernardo into a building with six other families. Okay, so it was still a bit of a squeeze, but this new accommodation was closer to the centre of town on a main thoroughfare. It was a lively commercial area and quite close to the Casa Guarneri and Del Gesu’s parents. So for the last 10 years, since 1720, Guarneri Del Gesu had been making a few instruments here and there. But now this period from 1730 or 1731 onwards, he was concentrating all his efforts on making instruments. This is the beginning of the future Del Gesu. And so for a while our young violin maker disappears from the records. He has laid down his tools for now, his hands, perhaps busy with timber and plaster instead of maple and spruce. And in those last years I can imagine Giuseppe Guarneri trading the work bench for the dust of renovation, dreaming of stability of a future with Katerina, a home, a family, and maybe even a business of their own. But fate as ever has other plans. The inn he hoped would bring security instead brings well, look, it's, it's a reno and whenever renovation's ever gone well hmm. And when his father's health falters once more, Guarneri Del Gesu finds himself drawn back, back to the bench, to the smell of shavings and the craft he and his brothers were born into. Next time we'll follow him as he rediscovers his true calling. Well, it's really kind of clawing him back. The wilderness ears end and a new chapter begins the one that will forge the legend of Del Gesu. Join me in the next episode where the violins return and so does Giuseppe Guarneri. Thank you for listening to this episode, but for the Patreon members, it's not over.

     

    We have extra things coming up. I'll be talking to Antoine about more Del Gesu characteristics to look out for in a violin or to copy. If you're making one, and I have also added some parts of interviews I've had with my lovely guests that I thought was a bit too oh la la to put in the free public version.

    And if you are not already a Patreon member, head on over to patreon.com/the Violin Chronicles and sign up for extra episodes and no ads. I know. Amazing. And you'll also be supporting me to plough on and make more of these shows for you.  I'd like to thank my already patrons because it's all happening because of you.

    I'm so grateful for the support you have given me. See you next time.

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About The Violin Chronicles Podcast

In this podcast I will be telling the wild and wonderful stories englobing the lives of famous violin makers, what they got up to and placing them in their historical and musical context. We will look at instrument makers such as Gasparo da Salo, the Amati family, Guarneri Del Gesu and Stradivari just to name a few. Who were these people? What were their lives like? What was Stradivaris secret? and most importantly why and how did they make these master pieces we see and revere today.What was the first ballet like that Andrea Amati’s instruments played in, costing millions? Why did Antonio Stradivari have a shotgun wedding? and did Guarneri del Gesu really go to prison for murder? I speak to historians, musicians, violin makers and experts to unveil the stories of these beautiful violins, violas, cellos, double basses and the people who made them.
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