Ascend - The Great Books Podcast

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick takes a popular article from The Ascent, a top 100 substack in faith and spirituality, and does a deep dive on CS Lewis, Dante, and the problem of evil (theodicy).
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In this fascinating episode Deacon Garlick explores one of C.S. Lewis’s most striking images: the never-ending winter in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.
Why is it “always winter but never Christmas”?
Far more than a chilly backdrop, Lewis uses the endless cold as a powerful allegory for evil itself. Deacon connects Lewis’ imagery to Dante’s frozen pit at the bottom of Hell in the Inferno, revealing how both Christian master-teachers portray evil not as an opposite of the good, but as a cold, lifeless privation—an absence of heat, motion, and life.
You’ll gain fresh insight into:
- Why evil is best understood as a “hole in the ground” or darkness without light
- How the White Witch’s power to turn creatures to stone mirrors the soul-freezing effect of sin
- The beautiful contrast of Aslan’s warm, life-giving breath (echoing John's Pentecost and the forgiveness of sins)
- The deeper Christian truth that goodness and being are convertible—evil pulls us toward unreality and non-existence
Deacon also shares why reading Narnia to children is such a gift: it trains young minds to love allegory, unlocks the four senses of Scripture, and cultivates a richer, more sacramental view of reality.
Warm, thoughtful, and packed with spiritual wisdom, this episode will leave you with renewed appreciation for Lewis, Dante, and the profound way great stories reveal eternal truths.
If you love C.S. Lewis, Dante, or want to understand the nature of evil more deeply, you won’t want to miss this one!
Episode Chapters:
00:00 Introduction & What’s New on Ascend
01:34 Welcome to Ascend: The Great Books Podcast
03:45 The Ascent Substack & Sister Publication
06:20 The Hidden Meaning of Narnia’s Endless Winter
08:10 Background Story of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
11:30 Aslan as Christ Allegory & Benefits of Reading Narnia to Children
15:45 The Four Senses of Scripture (Literal, Allegorical, Moral, Anagogical)
20:10 Why Allegory Matters for Scripture and Reality
23:50 What Is Evil? – Introducing the Problem of Evil (Theodicy)
27:40 Evil as Privation of the Good (Augustine & Aquinas)
32:15 Freedom, Free Will, and the Origin of Evil
36:40 C.S. Lewis: Endless Winter as Allegory for Evil
40:20 The White Witch’s Power & Aslan’s Life-Giving Breath
44:10 Dante’s Inferno: The Frozen Pit of Hell
48:30 God as Love That Moves the Sun and Stars
52:00 Key Lessons: Evil, Being, and Goodness
55:20 Recap & Closing Thoughts
57:40 What’s Coming Next on Ascend
Keywords: C.S. Lewis, Narnia, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, endless winter Narnia, hidden meaning of Narnia, Narnia allegory, problem of evil, theodicy, Dante Inferno, frozen hell Dante, evil as privation, nature of evil, Aslan Christ allegory, White Witch, Christian allegory, four senses of Scripture, reading Narnia to children, great books podcast, Christian spirituality, privation of the good, evil and free will, Dante and Lewis, spiritual meaning of winter.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison discusses the last two cantos of the Purgatorio (32-33) with Joshua Charles of Eternal Christendom and Dr. Frank Grabowski of Holy Family Classical School.
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They explore the symbolic significance of Beatrice's role in guiding Dante through his spiritual journey, highlighting her as a representation of divine grace and wisdom. The conversation also touches on the allegorical elements of the sacred tree and the griffin, which symbolize Christ and the intertwining of spiritual and temporal authority.
The episode further examines the complex allegories of spiritual and temporal power, focusing on themes of judgment, schism, and the corruption within the church. The guests discuss Dante's critique of ecclesiastical corruption, particularly involving figures like Boniface VIII and the Avignon Papacy, and how these historical contexts are woven into the narrative. The prophetic visions of church corruption, represented by the harlot and the coming hero, the Greyhound, are analyzed for their implications on Dante's vision of divine justice and societal renewal. The discussion is enriched with references to biblical texts, especially the Book of Revelation, which heavily influences Dante's imagery.
Throughout the episode, the philosophical underpinnings of Dante's work are explored, with particular attention to the influences of Platonic, Augustinian, and Thomistic thought. The conversation transitions from the individual soul's purification journey to broader societal and political reflections, emphasizing the need for harmony between spiritual and temporal powers. The episode concludes with reflections on Dante's vision for renewal and hope, encouraging listeners to consider the allegories as guides for personal sanctification and societal transformation.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Context of the Podcast
03:07 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio
06:02 The Role of Beatrice and Grace
08:50 Imagery and Symbolism in Canto 32
12:06 The Pageant of Church History
15:00 The Griffin and the Tree of Knowledge
17:53 Temporal vs. Spiritual Authority
20:45 The Significance of the Pageant
23:57 Concluding Thoughts on Dante's Vision
29:18 The Role of the Church in Governance
30:01 Wealth and Temptation: The Weight of Luxury
32:13 Temporal Authority vs. Spiritual Purpose
34:26 The Emergence of the Dragon: Schism and Violence
36:05 The Transformation of the Chariot: Corruption and Power
38:47 The Harlot and the Giant: The Church's Grotesque Reality
42:37 Dante's Perspective on the Papacy and Authority
49:35 The Need for a Temporal Leader
55:41 The Prophetic Vision of the Future
01:00:21 The Purifying Power of Temporal Authority
01:04:21 The Role of the Tree in Justice
01:06:47 Understanding the Moral and Anagogical Senses
01:10:46 The Discord Between Heaven and Earth
01:16:42 The Significance of the Two Rivers
01:22:40 Baptism and the Renewal of the Soul
Good work on reading the Purgatorio!
We have a few episodes from THE ASCENT up next and then we are reading the Odyssey.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Michael West discuss the top of Mount Purgatory: The Earthly Paradise (Cantos 28-31).
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They explore the serene, uncultivated garden where Dante encounters the mysterious Matilda picking flowers, the two rivers (Lethe, which erases the memory of sin, and Eunoe, which restores the memory of good deeds), and the elaborate apocalyptic procession featuring candelabras, elders, symbolic creatures, the griffin-drawn chariot of the Church, and dancers representing the theological and cardinal virtues. The discussion highlights Dante’s use of erotic imagery, classical allusions (Proserpina, Venus, Hero and Leander), and the communal themes running through the Commedia, while noting how Purgatorio depicts the gradual strengthening of the will through spiritual “exercise,” much like physical training.
The conversation then turns to the dramatic appearance of Beatrice in Canto 30, her stern rebuke of Dante for pursuing “shadows of false goods” after her death, and the emotional departure of Virgil, whose guidance ends as Beatrice assumes the role of divine wisdom.
They interpret Canto 31 as a sacramental confession scene in which Dante acknowledges his sins, experiences contrition while gazing at Beatrice’s eyes reflecting the dual-natured griffin (Christ), and is immersed in the River Lethe by Matilda. The hosts reflect on the limits of human reason and mentorship (Virgil), the incarnational role of beauty in leading the soul to God, the necessity of properly ordered eros, and the deeper Christian vision that Eden is not the final destination but a way station toward the beatific vision. The episode ends with anticipation for the conclusion of Purgatorio in the next installment.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Ascend and the Great Books
02:19 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio: Canto 28-31
04:03 Scholarship and Themes in Dante
06:52 The Role of Community in Dante's Works
09:43 Personal Reflections on Purgatorio
12:20 The Earthly Paradise and Its Significance
14:48 Matilda: A Symbol of Beauty and Desire
17:44 The Rivers of Lethe and Eunoë
20:25 The Dichotomy of Memory in Dante's Vision
33:04 The Nature of Confession and Memory
34:32 Exploring Apocalyptic Imagery
38:08 The Role of Virtues in Spiritual Life
45:58 The Significance of the Procession
52:43 The Transition from Virgil to Beatrice
01:04:09 Virgil's Journey and Final Gift
01:05:25 The Role of Mentorship and Growth
01:07:24 The Pain of Separation from Mentors
01:08:58 Understanding Virgil's Absence
01:10:52 Beatrice's Introduction and New Guidance
01:12:22 Beatrice's Sarcasm and Wisdom
01:14:07 The Complexity of Virgil's Guidance
01:15:11 The Nature of True Goodness
01:17:04 The Pursuit of Apparent Goods
01:19:47 Beatrice as an Icon of Divine Beauty
01:21:41 The Role of Pity in Relationships
01:25:56 The Sacrament of Confession
01:27:43 The Importance of Tears and Remorse
01:33:41 The Vision of the Griffin and Christ
Good work reading the great books! Next week, we are joined by Joshua Charles and Dr. Frank Grabowski to end our journey!

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Fr. Patrick Biscoe, OP, discuss gluttony and lust in Dante's Purgatorio, Cantos 23-27.
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In this episode of Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick is joined by Dominican friar Fr. Patrick Briscoe, OP, currently serving in Rome as the Order’s General Promoter for Social Communication. The conversation opens with Fr. Patrick explaining Dominican life, the charism of preaching rooted in study and contemplation, the historical significance of Santa Sabina, and the Order’s ongoing vitality—especially through institutions like the Angelicum. The bulk of the episode then offers a close, theologically rich reading of the Purgatorio.
The hosts explore how Dante structures these sins as forms of excessive or misdirected love, placing them high on the mountain because they are less grave than pride, envy, or wrath, yet still require deep purification. Key themes include the contrapasso of emaciated souls on the gluttony terrace, the “OMO DEI” face motif symbolizing refashioning in God’s image, the role of intercessory prayer (especially Nella’s for Forese Donati), the two instructive trees, medieval embryology and hylomorphism (how airy shades appear gaunt), and the wall of flame on the lust terrace.
They highlight Dante’s nuanced treatment of lust—treating both heterosexual excess (Pasiphaë/bestiality) and sodomy as incontinence—while emphasizing the praise of chaste marriage and the enduring good of ordered eros. The episode closes powerfully with Virgil’s farewell in Canto 27, crowning Dante “lord of himself” once his will is aligned with the good, symbolizing true Christian freedom.
Throughout, the discussion weaves literary analysis with practical spiritual application—especially apt for Lent—showing Purgatorio as a map for self-mastery, image perfection, and liberation from disordered desire. Fr. Patrick and Dcn. Garlick underscore Beatrice as an icon of divine beauty and grace, whose memory motivates Dante through the flames rather than being purged away. The episode ends with an invitation to reread the text, follow the Dominicans’ work, and prepare for the Earthly Paradise cantos in the next installment.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Ascend and Dante's Purgatorio
07:37 The Role of Communication in the Dominican Order
13:24 Contrapasso and the Nature of Sin
18:19 The Importance of Free Will in Purgatory
24:03 The Interconnectedness of Souls
29:49 Family Dynamics in the Afterlife
35:59 Exploring Purgatory's Dynamics
39:49 Consequences of Disordered Love
43:43 Desires and Reason in Purgatory
48:39 Understanding Gluttony and Vigilance
52:13 Beatitudes and Spiritual Hunger
57:07 Gradations of the Soul
58:53 The Relationship Between Body and Soul
01:02:02 The Finality of Body and Soul Reunion
01:06:51 The Transition to Lust in Purgatory
01:08:02 Contrasting Spirits on the Mountain
01:08:30 Marian and Pagan Examples of Purity
01:09:25 The Nature of Purification in Purgatory
01:10:55 The Healing Power of Praise
01:11:41 Understanding Sexuality and Love
01:12:53 Dante's Quasi-Liturgical Procession
01:14:02 The Psychology of Lust in Purgatory
01:16:03 The Nature of Sin and Its Consequences
01:17:48 The Unnaturalness of Lust
01:19:33 The Direction of Souls in Purgatory
01:20:55 The Role of Intercessory Prayer
01:21:48 Dante's Final Challenge
01:23:11 The Role of Beatrice in Dante's Journey
01:25:38 Purification Through Love
01:27:55 The Symbolism of Eyes and Intellect
01:30:37 Virgil's Final Guidance to Dante
01:34:13 The Aim of Lent and Self-Mastery
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Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Sarah Berry of the University of Dallas discuss Acedia, Avarice, and part of Gluttony in Cantos 18-22 of the Purgatorio.
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Dr. Sarah Berry joins Deacon Harrison Garlick to explore Cantos 18–22, covering the terrace of sloth (acedia) and the transition into avarice and prodigality. In Canto 18, Virgil delivers a pivotal discourse on love as the root of all human action, explaining that love can be misdirected (pride, envy, wrath), deficient (sloth), or excessive (avarice, gluttony, lust). Berry emphasizes the terrace’s brevity and lack of a formal prayer: “their prayers are their action... the penitents too... are doing the thing as a way of offering up some kind of prayer to God” (Dr. Sarah Berry), with running souls and examples of zeal (Mary’s haste to Elizabeth, Caesar’s swift march) countering sloth’s cooling of love.
The dream of the siren in Canto 19 warns against deceptive earthly goods, while the face-down penance on the avarice terrace forces fixation on the earth once loved excessively: “these are those who had a disordered love of money... goods that can’t be shared” (Dr. Sarah Berry).
Cantos 20–22 deepen the exploration of avarice’s societal and personal consequences. Hugh Capet’s lament in Canto 20 indicts the French dynasty’s greed and sacrilege, including the capture of Boniface VIII. Berry highlights the terrace’s broadened scope: “Dante is really broadening... our awareness of this constellation of problems” beyond mere hoarding or spending. In Canto 21, Statius is released with an earthquake and song, explaining his long purgation on sloth and avarice before moving freely upward. Canto 22 poignantly contrasts Statius (saved through Virgil’s influence and grace) with Virgil himself, who lacks faith despite his virtues. Berry notes the tragedy: “Dante is inviting us... hoping that there is some special providence for Virgil at the end of his journey through purgatory” (Dr. Sarah Berry). The cantos reveal Purgatorio’s hopeful, dynamic nature: purgation reorders love through grace, habituation, and contemplation, moving from deficient to excessive attachments, preparing the soul for divine union.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Ascend and Dante's Purgatorio
02:29 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio: Themes and Structure
04:30 The Importance of Purgatorio in Spiritual Growth
08:32 Understanding Love and Culpability in Purgatorio
12:00 Diving into Canto 18: The Lesson on Love
13:26 Virgil's Discourse on Love and Free Will
17:40 The Nature of Love: Ascent and Culpability
20:31 The Role of Reason in Human Actions
26:01 The Formation of Intellect and Will
33:12 Contrapasso: The Penance of Slothfulness
40:19 Examples of Zeal: Mary and Caesar
42:17 Understanding Zeal and Sloth
47:04 The Subtlety of Sin and Human Effort
52:31 Dreams and Allegory in Purgatory
01:00:27 The Nature of Prayer and Action
01:01:58 Exploring Avarice and Its Consequences
01:20:15 Exploring Dante's Inferno: Sin and Intellect
01:23:03 Wrath and Sloth: Roots of Sin in Purgatorio
01:25:23 Positive Examples: Virtue Against Avarice
01:29:30 Dante's Critique of French Dynasties
01:35:56 The Role of Statius: A New Perspective
01:50:30 Virgil's Tragic Journey: Hope for Salvation?
Keywords
Dante's Purgatorio, Sloth, Love, Virtue, Spiritual Growth, Theology, Literature, Dante, Purgatory, Christian Virtues Dante, Purgatorio, allegory, sin, virtue, divine justice, theology, Mount Purgatory, purgation, salvation