Ascend - The Great Books Podcast

For the first time since 2023, Ascend is reposting an episode--our introduction to the Odyssey with Dr. Patrick Deneen (6.25.2024) in anticipation of our NEW 12-WEEK STUDY of the Odyssey starting next week!
We start BOOK ONE OF THE ODYSSEY next week!
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In this special introduction to Homer’s Odyssey, Deacon Harrison Garlick is joined by three distinguished guests: Dr. Patrick Deneen (Professor of Political Science at Notre Dame and author of Why Liberalism Failed), Dr. Chad Pecknold (Associate Professor of Systematic Theology at The Catholic University of America), and Dr. Richard Meloche (then President of the Alcuin Institute for Catholic Culture).
The conversation explores why the Great Books matter, why Homer’s Odyssey remains foundational to Western thought and theological formation, and key introductory themes in the epic (with a few light spoilers). Topics include the dynamic nature of the canon, Odysseus’s journey home as a meditation on human nature (neither beast nor god), the tension between fate and choice, temptations of forgetfulness or false immortality, and how a Catholic lens reveals anticipations of Christian truths like restlessness for our true home. The guests share personal stories of how they encountered the Great Books and reflect on the role of narrative in education and spiritual formation.
It’s a rich, accessible discussion that sets the stage for deeper dives into the Odyssey while connecting ancient pagan wisdom to Christian theology.
In this episode the panel discusses:
• The importance of the Great Books canon and why it remains vital
• Personal journeys into the classics (and how providence often leads us there)
• Key themes in the Odyssey: homecoming, beast-like forgetfulness vs. god-like immortality, fate and free choice, father-son relationships, and Odysseus’s very human flaws
• Reading pagan texts through a Catholic lens—seeing anticipations of Christian truth (restlessness for the City of God, the need for virtue and community)
• The role of great stories in theological and liberal education
Timestamps:
00:00 – Welcome and guest introductions
08:15 – How each guest discovered the Great Books
22:40 – Why read Homer? The foundational role of the Odyssey
40:00 – Major themes and introductory overview of the Odyssey (light spoilers)
1:05:00 – Odysseus as neither beast nor god – the need for the city
1:25:30 – Theological reading of pagan literature
1:45:00 – The dynamic canon and reading with Christian eyes
2:05:00 – Final thoughts and what’s next for Ascend
Join us as we read the Odyssey over the next 12 weeks!

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick explores one of the most striking features of Dante’s Inferno: why the poet places liars, flatterers, and the treacherous in the lowest circles of Hell — deeper than murderers, tyrants, suicides, and even blasphemers.
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We are reading the Odyssey over 12 weeks!
Why does Dante rank fraud and treachery as worse sins than violence? What is the spiritual harm of lying? And how is lying profoundly anti-Christ?
Deacon Garlick takes listeners on a deep but accessible journey through:
The architecture and purpose of Dante’s Inferno
The nature of truth and the teleology (purpose) of speech
Why sins against the soul are worse than sins against the body
The corruption of the intellect as the worst perversion of human nature
The profound theology of Christ as the Logos — the divine ordering principle of all reality

This episode will challenge you to take lying far more seriously and to see how every lie moves both ourselves and others farther away from Jesus Christ, who declares “I am the Truth.”
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Ascend The Great Books Podcast
04:13 Exploring Dante's Inferno: The Spiritual Harm of Lying
06:07 Understanding the Architecture of Hell
15:05 The Nature of Truth and Speech
20:26 The Consequences of Lying vs. Murder
24:24 The Nature of Lying and Its Consequences
30:52 Understanding Logos and Its Significance
Key Topics Discussed
Dante’s moral purpose in writing the Divine Comedy
The structure of Hell: sins of incontinence vs. sins of malice
Upper Hell vs. Lower Hell and the City of Dis
Why flattery appears lower in Hell than murder
St. Thomas Aquinas on truth: “the conformity of the mind to reality”
The purpose (telos) of speech: to convey truth and help others conform their minds to reality
Why lying is a perversion of speech and an attack on the intellect
The inverted hierarchy of the soul in Hell
Christ as the Logos (John 1) — the rational structure and ordering principle of all creation
How lying is an anti-Christ act that divorces the mind from reality and from Jesus Himself
The spiritual danger of breeding greater errors through falsehood

Notable Quotes / Insights
“Sins against the soul are always going to be more severe than sins against the body.”
“The corruption of the best is the worst.”
“Christ does not say ‘I have come to share a truth with you.’ He says, ‘I am the Truth.’”
“Every lie moves people farther away from Jesus Christ because you are divorcing the mind from reality.”

Keywords and phrases: spiritual harm of lying, Dante Inferno lying, is lying worse than murder, Dante Inferno flattery, why Dante puts liars in lower hell, spiritual harm of lying Dante, lying worse than violence, Christ as the Logos, logos theology lying, anti-Christ act of lying, Dante hell structure explained, truth and speech Catholic theology, why is lying worse than murder in Dante's Inferno, spiritual consequences of lying Catholic, Dante Inferno fraud vs violence, what is the spiritual harm of lying, lying as anti-Christ act, St Thomas Aquinas truth conformity of mind to reality, John 1 Logos and lying, Dante Inferno sins of malice, treachery in Dante's Inferno, flattery in Dante's hell, Dante Divine Comedy moral lesson, sins against the soul vs body, corruption of the intellect, teleology of speech, Catholic teaching on lying, Aquinas definition of truth, Inferno architecture explained.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick takes a popular article from The Ascent, a top 100 substack in faith and spirituality, and does a deep dive on CS Lewis, Dante, and the problem of evil (theodicy).
Check out THE ASCENT - a top 100 Substack on Christianity spirituality.
Check out "The Hidden Meaning of Narnia's Endless Winter" Substack article.
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In this fascinating episode Deacon Garlick explores one of C.S. Lewis’s most striking images: the never-ending winter in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.
Why is it “always winter but never Christmas”?
Far more than a chilly backdrop, Lewis uses the endless cold as a powerful allegory for evil itself. Deacon connects Lewis’ imagery to Dante’s frozen pit at the bottom of Hell in the Inferno, revealing how both Christian master-teachers portray evil not as an opposite of the good, but as a cold, lifeless privation—an absence of heat, motion, and life.
You’ll gain fresh insight into:
- Why evil is best understood as a “hole in the ground” or darkness without light
- How the White Witch’s power to turn creatures to stone mirrors the soul-freezing effect of sin
- The beautiful contrast of Aslan’s warm, life-giving breath (echoing John's Pentecost and the forgiveness of sins)
- The deeper Christian truth that goodness and being are convertible—evil pulls us toward unreality and non-existence
Deacon also shares why reading Narnia to children is such a gift: it trains young minds to love allegory, unlocks the four senses of Scripture, and cultivates a richer, more sacramental view of reality.
Warm, thoughtful, and packed with spiritual wisdom, this episode will leave you with renewed appreciation for Lewis, Dante, and the profound way great stories reveal eternal truths.
If you love C.S. Lewis, Dante, or want to understand the nature of evil more deeply, you won’t want to miss this one!
Episode Chapters:
00:00 Introduction & What’s New on Ascend
01:34 Welcome to Ascend: The Great Books Podcast
03:45 The Ascent Substack & Sister Publication
06:20 The Hidden Meaning of Narnia’s Endless Winter
08:10 Background Story of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
11:30 Aslan as Christ Allegory & Benefits of Reading Narnia to Children
15:45 The Four Senses of Scripture (Literal, Allegorical, Moral, Anagogical)
20:10 Why Allegory Matters for Scripture and Reality
23:50 What Is Evil? – Introducing the Problem of Evil (Theodicy)
27:40 Evil as Privation of the Good (Augustine & Aquinas)
32:15 Freedom, Free Will, and the Origin of Evil
36:40 C.S. Lewis: Endless Winter as Allegory for Evil
40:20 The White Witch’s Power & Aslan’s Life-Giving Breath
44:10 Dante’s Inferno: The Frozen Pit of Hell
48:30 God as Love That Moves the Sun and Stars
52:00 Key Lessons: Evil, Being, and Goodness
55:20 Recap & Closing Thoughts
57:40 What’s Coming Next on Ascend
Keywords: C.S. Lewis, Narnia, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, endless winter Narnia, hidden meaning of Narnia, Narnia allegory, problem of evil, theodicy, Dante Inferno, frozen hell Dante, evil as privation, nature of evil, Aslan Christ allegory, White Witch, Christian allegory, four senses of Scripture, reading Narnia to children, great books podcast, Christian spirituality, privation of the good, evil and free will, Dante and Lewis, spiritual meaning of winter.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison discusses the last two cantos of the Purgatorio (32-33) with Joshua Charles of Eternal Christendom and Dr. Frank Grabowski of Holy Family Classical School.
We are reading the ODYSSEY NEXT! Check out our 12-week schedule.
See our collection of written guides to the great books!
Check out Joshua Charles' Eternal Christendom.
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They explore the symbolic significance of Beatrice's role in guiding Dante through his spiritual journey, highlighting her as a representation of divine grace and wisdom. The conversation also touches on the allegorical elements of the sacred tree and the griffin, which symbolize Christ and the intertwining of spiritual and temporal authority.
The episode further examines the complex allegories of spiritual and temporal power, focusing on themes of judgment, schism, and the corruption within the church. The guests discuss Dante's critique of ecclesiastical corruption, particularly involving figures like Boniface VIII and the Avignon Papacy, and how these historical contexts are woven into the narrative. The prophetic visions of church corruption, represented by the harlot and the coming hero, the Greyhound, are analyzed for their implications on Dante's vision of divine justice and societal renewal. The discussion is enriched with references to biblical texts, especially the Book of Revelation, which heavily influences Dante's imagery.
Throughout the episode, the philosophical underpinnings of Dante's work are explored, with particular attention to the influences of Platonic, Augustinian, and Thomistic thought. The conversation transitions from the individual soul's purification journey to broader societal and political reflections, emphasizing the need for harmony between spiritual and temporal powers. The episode concludes with reflections on Dante's vision for renewal and hope, encouraging listeners to consider the allegories as guides for personal sanctification and societal transformation.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Context of the Podcast
03:07 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio
06:02 The Role of Beatrice and Grace
08:50 Imagery and Symbolism in Canto 32
12:06 The Pageant of Church History
15:00 The Griffin and the Tree of Knowledge
17:53 Temporal vs. Spiritual Authority
20:45 The Significance of the Pageant
23:57 Concluding Thoughts on Dante's Vision
29:18 The Role of the Church in Governance
30:01 Wealth and Temptation: The Weight of Luxury
32:13 Temporal Authority vs. Spiritual Purpose
34:26 The Emergence of the Dragon: Schism and Violence
36:05 The Transformation of the Chariot: Corruption and Power
38:47 The Harlot and the Giant: The Church's Grotesque Reality
42:37 Dante's Perspective on the Papacy and Authority
49:35 The Need for a Temporal Leader
55:41 The Prophetic Vision of the Future
01:00:21 The Purifying Power of Temporal Authority
01:04:21 The Role of the Tree in Justice
01:06:47 Understanding the Moral and Anagogical Senses
01:10:46 The Discord Between Heaven and Earth
01:16:42 The Significance of the Two Rivers
01:22:40 Baptism and the Renewal of the Soul
Good work on reading the Purgatorio!
We have a few episodes from THE ASCENT up next and then we are reading the Odyssey.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Michael West discuss the top of Mount Purgatory: The Earthly Paradise (Cantos 28-31).
Check out our WRITTEN GUIDE to the Purgatorio.
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They explore the serene, uncultivated garden where Dante encounters the mysterious Matilda picking flowers, the two rivers (Lethe, which erases the memory of sin, and Eunoe, which restores the memory of good deeds), and the elaborate apocalyptic procession featuring candelabras, elders, symbolic creatures, the griffin-drawn chariot of the Church, and dancers representing the theological and cardinal virtues. The discussion highlights Dante’s use of erotic imagery, classical allusions (Proserpina, Venus, Hero and Leander), and the communal themes running through the Commedia, while noting how Purgatorio depicts the gradual strengthening of the will through spiritual “exercise,” much like physical training.
The conversation then turns to the dramatic appearance of Beatrice in Canto 30, her stern rebuke of Dante for pursuing “shadows of false goods” after her death, and the emotional departure of Virgil, whose guidance ends as Beatrice assumes the role of divine wisdom.
They interpret Canto 31 as a sacramental confession scene in which Dante acknowledges his sins, experiences contrition while gazing at Beatrice’s eyes reflecting the dual-natured griffin (Christ), and is immersed in the River Lethe by Matilda. The hosts reflect on the limits of human reason and mentorship (Virgil), the incarnational role of beauty in leading the soul to God, the necessity of properly ordered eros, and the deeper Christian vision that Eden is not the final destination but a way station toward the beatific vision. The episode ends with anticipation for the conclusion of Purgatorio in the next installment.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Ascend and the Great Books
02:19 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio: Canto 28-31
04:03 Scholarship and Themes in Dante
06:52 The Role of Community in Dante's Works
09:43 Personal Reflections on Purgatorio
12:20 The Earthly Paradise and Its Significance
14:48 Matilda: A Symbol of Beauty and Desire
17:44 The Rivers of Lethe and Eunoë
20:25 The Dichotomy of Memory in Dante's Vision
33:04 The Nature of Confession and Memory
34:32 Exploring Apocalyptic Imagery
38:08 The Role of Virtues in Spiritual Life
45:58 The Significance of the Procession
52:43 The Transition from Virgil to Beatrice
01:04:09 Virgil's Journey and Final Gift
01:05:25 The Role of Mentorship and Growth
01:07:24 The Pain of Separation from Mentors
01:08:58 Understanding Virgil's Absence
01:10:52 Beatrice's Introduction and New Guidance
01:12:22 Beatrice's Sarcasm and Wisdom
01:14:07 The Complexity of Virgil's Guidance
01:15:11 The Nature of True Goodness
01:17:04 The Pursuit of Apparent Goods
01:19:47 Beatrice as an Icon of Divine Beauty
01:21:41 The Role of Pity in Relationships
01:25:56 The Sacrament of Confession
01:27:43 The Importance of Tears and Remorse
01:33:41 The Vision of the Griffin and Christ
Good work reading the great books! Next week, we are joined by Joshua Charles and Dr. Frank Grabowski to end our journey!