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Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

Podcast Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
David Burns, MD
This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety a...

Available Episodes

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  • 442: Eliminate Anxiety Fast: The Awesome Hidden Emotion Technique
    Ask David: The Awesome Hidden Emotion Technique Featuring Matthew May, MD with Rhonda and David The following answers to Ask David questions were written prior to the live podcast where Matt, David, Rhonda, and others discuss the questions in real time. Their answers may differ from Dr. Burns responses listed below. 1. Michael asks: How did you invent the Hidden Emotion Technique? It’s been incredibly helpful to me! Hello, Dr. Burns, Your lifelong work continues to be invaluable to me and so many others, and I apologize if this question was answered on a previous podcast. To my knowledge, it hasn't been. I was wondering how you discovered or created the hidden emotion model? I recently struggled with inexplicable death anxiety that came on every night since college started back up, and I was at a loss, until I remembered the hidden emotion model and wondered if there was something I wasn't acknowledging? Sure enough, I discovered I was actually quite resentful of my new schedule not allowing me to easily fit the gym into my schedule unless I wanted to forgo valuable sleep. Once I had addressed this resentment, the death anxiety vanished. I would love to know how this wonderful technique became part of your phenomenal practice! -Sincerely, Michael Polus. David’s reply You can read all about it in When Panic Attacks, when I learned about it accidentally based on an interaction with a patient who was stuck. Perhaps we can answer it on a podcast. Thanks! david   2. Janie asks: How can I help a patient who ruminates? My client ruminates, that is she experiences repetitive thoughts about conversations and gets stuck in the negative feelings that come from dwelling on those thoughts and conversations. She has referred to it as repetitive thinking about conversations that were distressing in some way. She replays the conversation in her head, and evaluates and re-evaluates her responses. She then plays the conversation using possible different responses she COULD have used and worries whether these would have been better responses. The first individual is a friend where the friendship is very challenging and interwoven into many parts of my patient's life. My patient ruminates about conversations and wonders over and over if she said the right thing or wonders how the friend took what was said. It is a loop that my patient often gets stuck in for long periods of the day. The second individual is my patient's husband. With him, she ruminates about how to say things to him so she can motivate him to be involved in the ways she wants him to be. We will work on these relationships using the 5 secrets eventually, but first she'd like to work on the rumination because it takes up so much of her time. How can I help her? David’s Reply I would recommend TEAM CBT in a step-by-step manner. I do not, in general, like to throw techniques at people based on a description of a problem. Motivational techniques to reduce resistance and bring resistance to conscious awareness. Paradoxical Cost-Benefit Analysis Dangling the Carrot / Gentle Ultimatum / Sitting with Open Hands The Hidden Emotion Technique What If / Downward Arrow Technique ERP (Exposure plus response prevention) Many other techniques inspired by methods a and b above (TEAM CBT) Feared Fantasy: confronting her worst fear Five Secrets of Effective Communication Work on acceptance: she is perfectionistic and self-critical Hidden Emotion: anger Thanks for listening (and reading the show notes), David, Rhonda and Matt
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  • 441: David, Rhonda and Matt Answer Your Questions about Relationships, Dating, and Religion
    Ask David My friend won’t say thank you! Dating Anxiety Religion vs. Psychotherapy We want to remind you about an awesome virtual workshop on habits and addictions that Dr. Jill Levitt and David will be presenting on March 28, 2025 We will feature powerful new paradoxical techniques that will blow your socks off. It will be from 8:30 to 4:30 and you will earn 7 CE credits while having fun and learning how to heal yourself AND you patients. Check it out! It's less than two weeks away, some check it out while you still have time! You'' LOVE it and LEARN a LOT! Registration and More Information Here! As is so often the case, the answers to these questions that appear in the show notes were email replies to the person before the show. To get the full discussion, make sure you listen to the actual podcast, as the answers often evolve in unexpected ways when the “experts” hash it out! Today’s episode is chock full of personal stories (some racy), expert Five Secrets advice and demonstration,  philosophical / spiritual discussion, and secrets of successful (and racy) dating. 1. Brittany asks: What can I do say to a friend who does not say “thank you” when I pay for our meal or drive a long distance just to see them? 2. Jaydipe asks: How can I get over my anxiety around attractive women? 3. Ali asks: Can religious beliefs cause or intensify feelings of anxiety? (David will talk about the synergies between TEAM CBT and spirituality in all religions. He will also mention the potential antagonisms.)   1. Brittany asks: What can I do say to a friend who does not say “thank you” when I pay for our meal or drive a long distance just to see them. Hello David and Rhonda, I have a friend who typically does not say thank you to me when I pay for a meal out or drive us a long distance. I am someone who always says thank you even if the other person just bought us $10 worth of fast food or gave a short ride. I find myself feeling resentful towards my friend for not saying anything when I pay and drive us around all day. It makes me feel like they don’t appreciate it. At the same time, talking about it and sharing my feelings would then feel like I’m asking them to say it, and then it would not feel authentic. I have said something about it in the past, and they were like I’m sorry, thank you. But it didn’t mean much at that point. Is this one of those annoying traits I just learn to accept? Thank you, Brittany David’s reply Well, you could just use a gentle I Feel statement, which might be paradoxically stronger, but combined with Stroking. Like this, "Jennie, you know I think the world of you, and greatly enjoy our times together, but when I pay for lunch, or drive a distance to hang out with you, you rarely ever say "thank you," and then I feel hurt and unappreciated." Something like that combines Stroking with I Feel and might be effective. But I always rate myself on what I do, or say, and not so much on how the other person reacts. You could, perhaps, also ask if they are upset with you about something that they’ve had trouble expressing to you. Best, david 2. Jaydipe asks: How can I get over my anxiety around attractive women? Hi David Many thanks for the podcast I’m struggling with social anxiety and talking to attractive women and I’ve watched all the podcasts relating to it. I think deep down I have a shame around finding women attractive, so I find it difficult to express interest in them. I find that I can talk to them easily during activities like climbing or co workers, but even on dates with women I can’t seem to take things forwards playfully like you’d expect on a date. I’m too serious and I think that turns people off. I feel like I’m under the spotlight and I have to impress them otherwise they won’t like me. I know this isn’t true and I’ve been trying to get myself to do exposure therapy by asking girls for their numbers and being rejected so it helps with that. Also, I struggle with societal expectations, I hear women say that they don’t want to be approached or talked to or anything so I just end up avoiding them because I don’t want to annoy them, but it holds me back from getting the sex and relationships I want Any help much appreciated Thanks, Jaydipe David’s Reply I have included your excellent question on an upcoming Ask David. In the meantime, have you read my book on dating, Intimate Connections? Best, david PS Should I use your first name, or a fake first name? 3. Ali asks: Can religious beliefs cause or intensify feelings of anxiety? Dear Dr. Burns, After reading your books, I’ve started to recognize that many of my anxious beliefs seem to have a religious background. For example, in the Bible, there’s a verse from John 5:14: “Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, ‘See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.’” Here’s where I struggle: I want to live my life freely, which includes things like being with different girls before marriage (something I already do). But according to religion, this is considered adultery and a sin. Another verse that weighs heavily on me is from Matthew 5:27-29: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.” I often find myself looking at beautiful women on the street, which Christianity teaches is sinful, and this sometimes leads to feelings of guilt. I wonder: do I need to leave religion altogether to break free from these negative, self-critical thoughts? I also have other related thoughts that seem to link my faith with the good things happening in my life. For instance: My life is going well right now. My parents are alive, my brother is getting married, I’m healthy, and I’ve been fortunate in many ways. I’ve had incredible experiences, like participating in two Erasmus+ exchange programs in Poland and Lithuania during university, volunteering in Latvia for a year, and even having my New Zealand visa approved in a highly competitive process (only 100 spots for 85 million people, and the application closed in 5 minutes!). I often think that these blessings are because I believe in Jesus, follow the Bible, and try to live as a good person who avoids sin and doesn’t deceive others. But then these anxious thoughts arise: I should always be thankful or pray, or else my life will fall apart. If I leave religion, something bad might happen—my parents could fall ill or pass away, and it would all feel like my fault for turning away from Jesus. Without faith, I’d lose my good fortune(luck), my appearance, and my opportunities. Wherever I apply to would be rejected, then I would understand that it was Jesus in the first place doing all of these things in my life, not me or vice versa! I'd find a terrible job, terrible working environment, terrible mutual relationships. Then everything would be my fault and I'd tell myself I should have believed in him in the first place but now I deserve everything that happens to me! These thoughts are overwhelming, and I’d love to hear your perspective on how to approach and challenge them. Thank you so much for your time and the invaluable insights you share in your work. Warm regards, Ali David’s reply Hi Ali, Sorry you are struggling with so many restrictions, judgments, and inhibitions! I can imagine it triggers anxiety, guilt, inadequacy, resentment, discouragement, and more. You can let me know! If you want, I can include this as an Ask David question on a podcast, with your first name, or a fake first name. Let me know if this works for you. Also, what religion are you? I know that many religions around the world can be very fundamentalistic and super strict in their teachings. My own religious upbringing had a touch of rigidity, too. Best, david Ali’s response to David Hello again, Actually, my family comes from the Christian (Orthodox-Armenian) minority in Turkey, where I was born and raised. So, I am an Orthodox Christian. You're absolutely right that I struggle with many restrictions and judgments. I’d love for you to include this as an "Ask David" question on a podcast since I haven’t seen any episode (and I’ve listened to most of your recent podcasts, including number 408: Do You Believe in God? Does God Exist?) that addresses this topic. By the way, I already use an alias, so "Ali" is a fake name, but you’re welcome to use it in your podcast! Here’s a quick DML (Daily Mood Log) to clarify what I’m dealing with: The Upsetting Event: Doing my daily half-hour Bible reading before bed and coming across certain verses. Emotions: Sad: 60% Anxious/Worried: 70% Inadequate: 60% Guilty/Bad: 90% Abandoned: 70% Pessimistic/Discouraged: 80% Stuck: 75% Angry/Resentful: 75% Tricked/Duped: 80% Although I don’t consider myself a devout Christian, over the past few years, I’ve started reading the Bible—the Old and New Testaments. Initially, I read them in my native language, but now I read in English to fully understand the content. Growing up in the church, I believed everything the priest taught. However, encountering some events and stories that seem illogical to me has made me question my beliefs. I often feel tricked and wonder if I’ve truly believed in all this. At the same time, I feel anxious and worried, as if questioning or criticizing my religion is a betrayal of God. Please let me know if you need any additional information. Ali David’s reply Thanks, Ali, this is super. I was also raised in a somewhat strict Christian (Lutheran) home, and as a child had plans to become a minister, like my dad. In college, I learned critical thinking, and began to question some of what I was taught when I was growing up. For example, there seemed to be a bit of a bias against Jews, and my dad said they had to convert to Christianity to be  ”saved” and, I guess, avoid going to hell after they died. That didn’t sound right at all, not loving, as Christ taught, who was himself a Jew, but hostile and judgmental. And I had good friends who were Jewish, so it felt offensive. Same with people who were gay. A strong bias that this was somehow “bad” and sinful, or something like that. Christianity, in the sense of the Catholic church, was really created by people a couple hundred years after Christ died, and they were reflecting their own human biases when they wrote the new testament and translated the old testaments. For better or worse, I am personally not afraid to disagree with much of what is in the Bible, and interpret it, not literally, but as a series of stories trying to communicate important spiritual truths, but these truths get quite distorted when people began focusing on literal truths, rather than “seeing” the message. Literal translations of religion risk missing the spiritual meaning and truth. This is especially true of the orthodox movement within any religion. This tendency toward being literal, rigid, and judgmental may be a partially inherited, genetic trait. Regardless, to me, it is offensive and ugly, and definitely not religious, but quite the opposite. In the early days, lots of religious cults emerged, and they all had their own special leaders. If your leader couldn’t walk on water, that guru was considered inferior. So, it was fashionable to say that your spiritual guru could “walk on water.” What does that really mean? To me, it means that this person is pretty special, and much kinder and more loving than most others, and can perhaps convey some spiritual truths to us. But actual walking on water is a magic trick best left to television and stage magicians. This is my thinking only, and I do not wish to impose my thinking and beliefs on you or on anybody! I had tremendous respect and admiration for a Catholic nun, Sister Shela Flynn, who worked at my clinic in Philadelphia because she wanted to learn how to do CBT. She was humble and wonderful, and once shared with me that she also thought the stories in the bible were primarily metaphors, just stories trying to convey this or that idea about love, humility, and so forth. Not literally true stories you “had to” believe to be a “good Christian.” An, in addition, using my philosophy and CBT training, there is really no such “thing” as a “good Christian.” Positive and negative labels can be useful but can also be hurtful and destructive. Will stop babbling, and feel free to reject or ignore some or everything I am saying! But on an emotional level, I feel hurt, and angry about the literal “rules-based” versions of religion. Because I see, all over the world, atrocities being committed to a massive degree in the name of this or that “religion.” I am most comfortable with Buddhism, but even then, many people take it literally, make up rules, and so forth, just like other religions or spiritual “paths.” For some reason, people love to make up rules and then try to force others to conform to their beliefs and rules. This is due, in large part, to arrogance, and the desire to feel “special” and “superior” to others. These are not, to my way of thinking, spiritual qualities, but quite the opposite. Finally, I do not mention religion in my therapy, which is 100% secular, and based on research and on scientific research on how people actually change. But at the moment of recovery, which often happens in a flash, rather suddenly, the patient often “sees” something of a spiritual nature which they had not seen or grasped before. I have never seen anyone lose their religious beliefs because of effective therapy, but quite the opposite. In fact, what we might call “recovery from depression” (or some other problem) sometimes looks an awful lot like what the religious mystics from all religions have called “enlightenment.” So, that’s the sermon my dad would have perhaps wanted me to preach from a pulpit! I guess this is my pulpit, and you are in my congregation! And this Sunday morning here in Los Altos, so that’s the end of today’s sermon! Best, david Contact information You can sign up for the David and Jill workshop on healthier habits here: cbt-workshop.com
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  • 440: Who is the REAL David?
    Getting to Know David David Answers Personal Questions! We all know David Burns as the creator of TEAM-CBT, but not many people get to know David, the person. It is fun to know David the person, because he is just like all of us. He is a real person (not a robot), full of life and love. I want everyone in our audience to be able to relate to David on a deeper level, to feel a sense of connection with him, and hopefully for all of us to build our sense of community with each other. Thanks so much to Stan Dickens, TEAM UK, for submitting these questions and sparking this discussion. The complete list of questions was much longer, but I (Rhonda) have selected the ones listed below. I hope you like listening to this podcast, Rhonda The questions are not necessarily in the order listed below, but all are answered on this podcast. David’s answers are all 100% spontaneous, and you will hear them on the podcast! Music & Entertainment 1.  Which band do you like most, the Beatles or the Rolling Stones? (David, please say The Beatles!) 2.  Following on from that, what kind of music do you listen to? Can you tell us about some of your favorite musicians, bands, or composers? Here are some links to just a few of a great many favorite songs of mine. David Tom Waits Never Let Go (of your hand) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pROjyuj2P8k&list=RDpROjyuj2P8k&start_radio=1&rv=fGe2igm7Ieo Rickey Nelson It’s Up to You https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsBP5P0Xe2c&list=RDvsBP5P0Xe2c&start_radio=1 James Brown Please Please Please https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vruy2GRUsV8 Mick Jagger and Muddy Waters Please Don’t Go! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbao_laqF8E Jim Croce I’ll have to say I love you in a song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB6FQBp-YwU Last Train Home Pat Metheny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goXJTv_U-PM Lucy Thomas “Hallelujah” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLk9pzmaFHY 3.  If your life were turned into a film, who would play you? 4.  Can you speak with an English accent? Would you be brave enough to give it a try right now? Career & Professional Reflections 5.  If you hadn’t dedicated your life to cognitive behavioral therapy and mental health or authored Feeling Good, what might you have done instead? 6. Is there a common misconception about you or your work that you’d like to clear up? Personal Insights & Philosophy 7.  If you could have dinner with three historical or modern figures, dead or alive, who would it be and why? 8.  If you could give your younger self just one piece of advice, what would it be? 9.  How did you meet Melanie, and what do you love most about her?
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  • 439: The Vape Escape!
    Vaping--Why and How I Quit. Featuring Dr. Kyle Jones Today we feature a beloved friend and esteemed colleague, Dr. Kyle Jones who will talk to us how he escaped from his vaping addiction. Kyle is a clinical psychologist in private practice, now residing in Los Angeles. However, he works virtually throughout California. He co-leads the OCD Consultation Group, a monthly consultation group for clinicians wanting to improve their competence in treating OCD. He also servs on the adjunct faculty at Palo Alto University where he teaches in the clinical psychology masters and PhD programs. He's recently joined the alumni council in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at the University of California, Santa Barbara. This is the fourth in our recent series on TEAM CBT for habits and addictions (431, Screen Addictions with Brandon Vance; 437, Porn Addiction with Thai An Truong; 438, Overcoming Habits & Addictions with Jill Leavitt). We want to remind you about an awesome virtual workshop on habits and addictions that Dr. Jill Levitt and I will be presenting on March 28th. We will feature powerful new paradoxical techniques that will blow your socks off. It will be from 8:30 to 4:30 and you will earn 7 CE credits while having fun and learning how to heal yourself AND you patients. Check it out! Registration and More Information Here! Today, Kyle gave a brief history of vaping, which entered the scene around 2010, and described the experience as pleasurable and addictive. An estimated 3 million teens are addicted, and the flavored versions are quite tasty, but banned in California. He described his first exposure to smoking when he was 19, and living in Paris. It was “the” thing to do at that time, but he eventually gave it up, but later began to take a hit or two of vaping at a party, and then purchased his own vaping device in 2023. “Shamefully, he says, I tried to hide it from my partner and from other people, and I would vape in the bathroom.” He vaped for most of 2024, but explains that eventually, it got out of hand. At New Year’s 2025, he listed the advantages versus the disadvantages of vaping, and made the decision to give it up. This was difficult because of the withdrawal effects that lasted for several weeks, including intense cravings, fatigue, difficulty sleeping, irritability, anxiety, and the urge to overeat. The TEAM CBT technique that helped the most was HAL, the Habit and Addiction Log, and we demonstrated the Devil’s Advocate Technique. Rhonda and David played the role of the Tempting Thoughts and Kyle bravely battle back. Here’s the list of thoughts: 1. I’m driving, so I can just vape in the car. 2. Here’s a chance for a nice break. I can vape right now!\ 3. I can take another hit, no problem! I’ll just get a little feeling of pleasure. 4. I need It tastes sooo gooood! We translated the “I” statements into “you” statements to maximize the temptation, and were as seductive as possible. But no matter how hard we tried to tempt Kyle, he won “huge” and hit it out of the park. We discussed Relapse Prevention, and Kyle described being at a party on Friday where some people were vaping and sharing the vape. We also described and illustrated the powerful Triple Paradox, which works paradoxically. I have personally trained Kyle in TEAM CBT, along with many other fine TEAM teachers, and he was always brilliant, compassionate and extremely effective in his therapy work. He works with the full spectrum of mood and anxiety disorders, and has a bit of a specialty in the treatment of OCD. Thanks for listening today!
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  • Episode 438 Habits and Addictions: The TEAM Approach
    Episode 438 The TEAM Approach to Habits and Addictions Powerful New, Radically Different Approaches that Can Help! Today, Dr. Jill Levitt joins David and Rhonda to discuss and illustrate the TEAM CBT approach to habits and addictions and give a little promo for their upcoming online workshop on Habits and Addictions on March 28, 2025. You can sign up for the workshop here: cbt-workshop.com Although the workshop is for mental health professionals, participants will have the chance to work on their own habits and addictions during the workshop in order to gain a more in-depth understanding of the new treatment methods for: Overeating / binging / restricting Drugs Alcohol Procrastination Doomscrolling Excessive cell phone use Internet addiction Excessive use of social media Shop-a-Holic Biting fingernails Video games Gambling And more David emphasized that nearly all current treatment methods frequently fall short because they focus on control of symptoms using behavior modification rather than the cause. He describes a research study at the Stanford inpatient unit that indicated that 50 common DSM Diagnoses (such as mood disorders, anxiety disorders, personality disorders, and more) were not significantly correlated with any of the DSM addictive / misuse disorders including drugs, alcohol, eating disorders, and gambling, which was not really consistent with the beliefs of many that emotional factors play a central causal role in addictions. In fact, the only significant correlation he noted was between depression and overeating, but the correlation was in the negative direction—in other words, higher levels of depression were associated with weight loss, not weight gain. And, in addition, the magnitude of the correlation was extremely small, indicating that other factors play a far more important role. So, what is the explanation for this puzzling and anti-intuitive finding? David described a 5-item survey he developed which asks about temptations in use or give in to your habit / addiction in the past week. This tool, in contrast to all of the DSM diagnoses, was very strongly correlated with all the addictions. This suggests that we give in to our habits and addictions for one simple reason--they make us feel great! At least in the short term! 150 years ago, they didn’t have an epidemic of obesity in America. Why not? Life was likely just as stressful as it is now, maybe even more so! But what they didn’t have was all the fast food restaurants and all the gooey, tasty foods that are abundantly available today, and they didn’t have the resources to purchase them, either. This doesn’t mean that behavioral models or diets or other tools have no value. But the TEAM CBT model focuses first on assessing the patient’s motivation for and resistance to treatment using a variety of powerful and innovative new techniques, including: The Triple Paradox The Ten Positive Distortions The Habits and Addictions Log (HAL) The Devil’s Advocate Technique The Five-Minute Rule The “I Stubbornly Refused” Technique The Anti-Procrastination Sheet Relapse Prevention Techniques utilizing The Externalization of Voices The Acceptance Paradox Stimulus Control And more They emphasized that these are methods, but not in the ordinary sense, because they rely heavily on the use of paradox, which is unfamiliar to many therapists, and require a great deal of skill. Jill and David first discussed the nature of tempting thoughts and how positive distortions work. Then, they illustrated the Devil’s Advocate Technique with Rhonda who volunteered to work on her temptation to overeat chocolate, and especially chocolate chip cookies with peanut butter, and listed several of her tempting thoughts, including: 1. A little chocolate chip cookie can’t hurt. 2. I have to keep them in the house because my husband loves them. 3. Just one cookie. It will taste SOOOO Gooood! 4. I can always work out a little more. 5. That cookie smells Sooo Good! I just CAN’T resist. Jill and David played the tempting part of Rhonda’s brain, and she played the part that resisted the temptations. She started strong, but her conviction seemed to weaken on the third thought, and she didn’t win “huge.” Instead of doing a role reversal to “help” or “save” her, David said that perhaps that wasn’t really something she was willing to give up, and perhaps we could work on something else instead. She INSTANTLY did a complete turnaround and won “huge” when they gave her another chance to defeat the tempting voice. David and Jill emphasized that paradox nearly always wins, and “helping” nearly always fails. But this is why these methods are so challenging—because the therapist’s well-intentioned attempts to help nearly always backfire, and yet are extremely difficult to resist. Jill and David emphasize that prior to doing this type of role-playing method, it is crucial to find out if this is something the patient really wants help with, and Jill emphasized that we rarely or never impose an agenda on any patient. We do not have any belief that there is a “correct” way for people to be. Rhonda—or any patient--will first have to convince us that this is something she really wants help with. And that will be one of the many take home messages for the therapists who attend on March 28th. Thanks for listening today, and be sure to tune in again next week! Jill, Rhonda, and David
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About Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!
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