Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

Episode 519: What Therapists Get Wrong—and How to Fix It
Hosts:
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT
Dr. David Burns
Guest:
Jeremy Karmel
What happens when therapy becomes something you simply keep doing rather than something that actually helps you get better?
In this lively and provocative episode of The Feeling Good Podcast, Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, joins Dr. David Burns and Jeremy Karmel for a candid conversation about some of the biggest problems they see in modern mental health care—and what therapists can do differently.
Jeremy brings a unique perspective to the discussion: he experienced severe depression in college and spent months in different therapies and therapy groups without getting better. Then, working with one of David Burns' students, he discovered powerful cognitive therapy techniques that produced dramatic results in just two weeks. The experience left him both grateful and frustrated—and motivated to understand why effective treatment can sometimes be so difficult to find.
David, Kevin, and Jeremy explore several common pitfalls in therapy, including the failure to measure results, getting lost in the past, talking about problems in vague and general terms, and assuming that every therapist is qualified to treat every kind of problem.
Accountability: Is Therapy Actually Working?
The conversation begins with one of David's central concerns: accountability.
If someone has been coming to therapy for months—or even years—how do they know whether treatment is actually helping?
Kevin shares his own experience of spending several years in therapy without clearly defined goals or any systematic testing of progress. Although he valued the relationship with his therapist, he now sees the lack of specific goals and measurement as a major limitation. By contrast, his current approach involves establishing concrete treatment goals and measuring progress before and after sessions.
Jeremy points out that many people in therapy cannot even answer a basic question: What are you working on? Without clear goals, it becomes difficult for patients to hold therapists—or themselves—accountable for results.
Do We Really Need to Find the Cause in the Past?
The group then tackles another controversial question: Does effective therapy require uncovering the origins of a problem in childhood or the distant past?
David tells the story of a woman with a severe elevator phobia who had been told in psychoanalysis that the roots of her fear were in childhood—and that overcoming it might take several more years. During a workshop, David instead helped her confront the feared elevator directly. Within minutes, her fear disappeared, and she subsequently rode skyscraper elevators without difficulty.
The larger point isn't that the past is irrelevant. Rather, David argues that therapy can become unnecessarily focused on discovering hypothetical causes when the more practical question is: What is bothering you right now, and what can we do about it?
The conversation extends this idea to trauma and PTSD. David describes an approach that focuses primarily on the patient's current distress rather than repeatedly dwelling on the traumatic history. Jeremy shares an example of someone whose debilitating trauma-related flashbacks improved after confronting the traumatic memory directly.
From General Problems to Specific Moments: The Power of Fractals
Another major theme is the distinction between general problems and specific problems.
People commonly come into therapy saying things like:
"I don't know who I am."
"I have low self-esteem."
"I'm bad at relationships."
"I'm always depressed."
"I have trouble with people."
But what does that actually mean?
David and Kevin argue that the therapist's job is to find a specific moment when the supposedly general problem was actually happening. What was going on? Where were you? Who was there? What were you feeling? And, most importantly, what were you telling yourself?
David describes these specific moments as "fractals": individual situations that contain the repeating pattern of a much larger problem. By solving the specific problem, you may simultaneously begin solving the general problem.
Jeremy illustrates this with his own tendency to argue. Looking at specific interactions through David's Relationship Journal helped him recognize a recurring pattern: instead of listening and looking for truth in what another person was saying, he would shift into arguing.
Is Your Therapist Actually an Expert in Your Problem?
The final major theme may be the most provocative: Therapists aren't necessarily experts in every problem their patients bring to therapy.
David and Jeremy use dating as an example. A therapist may have extensive training in psychotherapy without having any particular expertise in dating, flirting, relationships, or the practical skills involved in meeting potential partners.
Kevin offers an important distinction: therapists don't necessarily need to give advice about every subject. Instead, they can help clients identify the thoughts, emotions, behaviors, and communication patterns that are getting in their way.
This leads to a broader principle: therapy is not one-size-fits-all. Different problems require different skills, and therapists should be honest about what they know—and what they don't.
Kevin describes how he deliberately developed greater expertise in treating anxiety rather than trying to present himself as an expert in everything.
Key Takeaways
Therapy should have measurable goals.
If you don't know what you're trying to accomplish, it becomes difficult to determine whether therapy is working.
Relief and effectiveness aren't necessarily the same thing.
A supportive therapeutic relationship can feel valuable while still failing to produce meaningful progress on the problems that brought someone to therapy.
Don't automatically assume the past is the key to the cure.
The speakers argue that many problems can be addressed more effectively by focusing on what is happening in the present.
Get specific.
Instead of discussing "low self-esteem," "identity," or "relationship problems" in the abstract, identify a specific recent moment when the problem occurred.
Specific moments can reveal larger patterns.
The "fractal" concept suggests that a single upsetting interaction may contain the same cognitive and emotional patterns that repeatedly create suffering elsewhere.
Therapists aren't experts at everything.
A psychotherapy credential doesn't automatically make someone an expert in every problem a client might bring.
Specialization matters.
Therapists can become much more effective by developing deep expertise in particular problems and treatment methods.
Therapists should be willing to say, "I'm not the right person for this."
Recognizing the limits of one's expertise can be a sign of professionalism and humility rather than weakness.
The ultimate question is simple: Is the patient getting better?
For David, Kevin, and Jeremy, accountability means keeping the focus on results—and continually learning better ways to help people achieve them.
About This Episode
This episode features Dr. David Burns, Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, and Jeremy Karmel, a former therapy client whose own experience with ineffective treatment led him to become deeply involved in developing the Feeling Great app.
The conversation is candid, humorous, and intentionally provocative—but its central message is constructive: when therapists identify weaknesses in their approach, measure their results, develop better skills, and remain humble about what they don't know, they can become dramatically more effective.
As David puts it near the end of the episode, there are problems in therapy—but there are also solutions, and learning new skills can open the door to much greater effectiveness.
About Jeremy Karmel
Jeremy Karmel works with David Burns on the Feeling Great app and became passionate about TEAM-CBT after experiencing a dramatic recovery from severe depression during college. After trying numerous forms of therapy without success, he worked with Matt May and experienced a complete clearing of his depression in approximately two weeks.
If You Enjoyed This Episode
If this conversation resonated with you, please subscribe to The Feeling Good Podcast, leave a rating or review, and share this episode with someone who struggles with anxiety or avoidance. Your support helps more people discover practical, evidence-based tools for overcoming fear and building happier lives.
Listener Survey
We'd love to hear from you!
Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this link to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode.
Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling.
Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast!
Contact Information
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me.
You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com.
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Episode 518: Why So Much Therapy Doesn't Work
(And What Actually Does)
Hosts:
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT
Dr. David Burns
Guest:
Jeremy Karmel
What happens when therapy doesn't work?
In this provocative episode of The Feeling Good Podcast, David Burns and Jeremy Karmel join Kevin Cornelius to examine some uncomfortable questions about the mental health field: Why do some people remain in therapy for years without getting better? Why do so few therapists measure their patients' progress? What happens when therapists become overly attached to one particular school of therapy? And how can we make psychotherapy more effective, accountable, and evidence-based?
Jeremy brings a particularly personal perspective to the conversation. After experiencing severe depression in college and trying numerous forms of therapy without success, he worked with Matt May using TEAM-CBT and experienced a dramatic recovery in roughly two weeks. That experience ultimately led him to become deeply involved in TEAM-CBT and in the development of the Feeling Great app.
David and Jeremy describe a list of more than 30 concerns about the way mental health care is commonly practiced today. They emphasize that the goal isn't simply to criticize therapists, but to encourage a radical improvement in the effectiveness of psychotherapy.
In This Episode
1. Can financial incentives create a conflict of interest?
David and Jeremy explore a difficult question: If therapists are paid by the session, is there an inherent incentive to keep therapy going longer than necessary?
They contrast long-term therapy without measurable improvement with a model in which the therapist's goal is to help the client recover as quickly and completely as possible. David argues that therapists should be able to define what successful treatment looks like and determine whether their interventions are actually producing meaningful change.
Kevin offers another perspective from his experience at Feeling Good Institute, where brief TEAM-CBT therapy can lead to rapid improvement while also generating referrals because clients recognize that the treatment is effective.
2. Are schools of therapy becoming like "cults"?
David and Jeremy question the tendency within psychotherapy to become attached to particular theorists, schools, and treatment models.
Instead of assuming that one approach explains every psychological problem, they argue for flexibility. Depression, anxiety, relationship problems, and other difficulties may have very different causes and may require very different interventions.
David describes TEAM-CBT as a framework for effective psychotherapy rather than allegiance to one particular technique. He has developed more than 140 techniques and emphasizes selecting methods according to the individual's specific problem.
Jeremy points out that therapists and patients can be tempted to treat the ideas of famous figures such as Freud or Carl Rogers as unquestionable truths rather than hypotheses that should be tested against evidence.
3. The refusal to measure
Perhaps the strongest theme of the episode is the importance of measurement.
David argues that therapists need to know whether their patients are actually improving—not simply assume that they are. His approach involves measuring symptoms at the beginning and end of sessions and tracking changes over time.
If a person begins a session feeling 90% depressed and ends at 80%, that's useful information. If the numbers don't improve from week to week, the therapist has evidence that something needs to change. On the other hand, dramatic changes can provide tangible evidence that treatment is working.
Jeremy shares the story of a friend who had apparently been depressed for 18 months or more while receiving therapy, yet neither the therapist nor the patient had been systematically measuring whether the depression was improving.
4. Therapists aren't always accurate judges of how their patients feel
One of the most surprising parts of the discussion is David's argument that therapists' clinical intuition can be remarkably inaccurate.
He describes research in which highly trained clinicians interviewed patients extensively and then estimated how depressed, anxious, angry, or suicidal the patients were. Their estimates were extremely inaccurate compared with the patients' own ratings.
The lesson is humbling: We cannot reliably assume that we know how another person feels simply because we've spent a lot of time talking with them.
Measurement provides information that intuition cannot.
5. Measurement can transform the therapist, too
David explains that measurement isn't simply a way of judging the patient—or judging the therapist. It can become one of the most powerful tools for improving clinical skill.
If a therapist believes a session went wonderfully but the patient's ratings show otherwise, the therapist has an opportunity to learn. Likewise, if a particular intervention consistently produces dramatic improvements, measurement can reveal what works and help the therapist do more of it.
Kevin shares his own experience of how using testing transformed his work with clients and helped him learn how to become a more effective therapist.
6. What can therapists and patients do differently?
The episode ultimately isn't about giving up on therapy. It's about demanding better therapy.
David argues that the problems discussed—including conflicts of interest, allegiance to particular schools of therapy, and the failure to measure outcomes—are solvable. Therapists can begin using data to evaluate their effectiveness and become more willing to change their methods when patients aren't improving.
Kevin also encourages people seeking therapy to ask prospective therapists whether they use measurement and whether they track progress from session to session.
Key Takeaways
Therapy should be evaluated by its results. Good intentions, empathy, and a strong therapeutic relationship are important, but they aren't substitutes for meaningful improvement.
Therapists need to measure. Without measurement, it can be difficult to know whether a client is improving, staying the same, or getting worse.
Don't assume one therapy fits every problem. Different emotional and relationship problems may require different techniques.
Question therapeutic dogma. Famous therapists and established schools of therapy can offer valuable ideas, but their claims should be evaluated rather than accepted simply because they come from an authority.
Clinical intuition has limits. Even experienced therapists may be surprisingly inaccurate when judging how patients are actually feeling.
Measurement is a learning tool. Tracking outcomes doesn't just hold therapists accountable—it helps them discover what works and improve their skills.
Patients can become informed consumers of therapy. Asking a prospective therapist how they measure progress can provide valuable information about their approach.
Therapy can be brief and effective. The goal shouldn't necessarily be years of treatment; the goal should be meaningful improvement and relapse prevention.
The field can change. David, Jeremy, and Kevin emphasize that the problems they identify aren't inevitable. Therapists can adopt more flexible, measurable, evidence-based approaches.
A Question for Listeners
How do you know if your therapy is working?
If you're a therapist, do you routinely measure your clients' symptoms and satisfaction? If you're a therapy client, has anyone ever shown you objective evidence that you're getting better?
And perhaps most importantly: Would you have the courage to discover that your current approach isn't working—and then change it?
About Jeremy Karmel
Jeremy Karmel works with David Burns on the Feeling Great app and became passionate about TEAM-CBT after experiencing a dramatic recovery from severe depression during college. After trying numerous forms of therapy without success, he worked with Matt May and experienced a complete clearing of his depression in approximately two weeks.
Coming Up
This conversation is the beginning of a larger discussion about the problems—and possibilities—of modern psychotherapy. As Kevin notes at the end of the episode, there are solutions to many of the problems discussed, and future episodes will explore more of them.
If You Enjoyed This Episode
If this conversation resonated with you, please subscribe to The Feeling Good Podcast, leave a rating or review, and share this episode with someone who struggles with anxiety or avoidance. Your support helps more people discover practical, evidence-based tools for overcoming fear and building happier lives.
Listener Survey
We'd love to hear from you!
Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this link to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode.
Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling.
Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast!
Contact Information
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me.
You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com.
Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app.
Feeling Great feels wonderful!
You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT!
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Episode 517: How a Bloody Trauma Case Cured My Lifelong Blood Phobia
Hosts:
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT
Dr. David Burns
Episode Summary
Can your greatest fear become one of your greatest strengths?
In this deeply personal episode, Dr. David Burns shares the remarkable true story of how a severe lifelong blood phobia nearly ended his medical career—and how one unforgettable day in the emergency room transformed that fear forever.
David recounts his unconventional path to becoming a psychiatrist, including almost dropping out of medical school, taking years away from medicine, living without money while trying to create a life centered around helping others, and eventually finding his way back to psychiatry through a residency at Highland Hospital in Oakland.
On his very first day in the emergency department, David was confronted with what seemed like his worst nightmare: a critically injured bombing victim covered in blood. Unable to avoid the situation, he was asked to help clean gunpowder from the patient's wounds. What began as overwhelming terror became an unexpected turning point that permanently erased his blood phobia—and ultimately shaped his career treating anxiety disorders.
Along the way, David and Kevin explore why exposure is one of the most powerful treatments for anxiety, why motivation is essential for lasting change, and why courage doesn't require the absence of fear.
This inspiring conversation is a reminder that the experiences we most want to avoid can sometimes become the doorway to profound growth.
In This Episode
Why David never intended to become a physician—and almost quit medical school.
The childhood experiences that contributed to his lifelong blood phobia.
How avoiding feared situations keeps anxiety alive.
The extraordinary trauma case that unexpectedly became David's own exposure therapy.
The surprising moment his fear disappeared completely.
David's concept of the "200% cure"—when something you once feared becomes something you genuinely enjoy.
Why therapists sometimes avoid using exposure therapy, even though it is one of the most effective anxiety treatments.
Why motivation often determines whether people are able to face their fears.
The role of acceptance and willingness during exposure.
A moving reunion with Highland Hospital decades later through the surgeon who recently performed David's successful colon surgery.
Key Takeaways
Exposure works because avoidance keeps fear alive.
The natural impulse is to escape what frightens us. Unfortunately, every act of avoidance teaches the brain that the feared situation is dangerous.
When we stay in the feared situation long enough, anxiety eventually peaks and then naturally declines. The feared catastrophe rarely occurs, and our confidence grows.
Courage means acting while you're afraid.
Kevin highlights an important distinction:
You don't have to eliminate fear before taking action.
Real courage is moving forward even while your anxiety feels overwhelming. David's anxiety remained at a 100 out of 100 for nearly fifteen minutes before it suddenly dissolved.
Anxiety cannot remain at its peak forever.
One of the biggest misconceptions about anxiety is the belief that once it starts, it will continue indefinitely.
In reality, anxiety naturally rises and falls. If we stop escaping and allow ourselves to experience it, it eventually loses its power.
Motivation makes exposure possible.
For years David simply avoided blood.
Everything changed because he had something more important than avoiding fear: he wanted to become a psychiatrist.
Having a compelling reason to face anxiety often makes difficult exposure exercises possible.
Sometimes fear transforms into enthusiasm.
David describes what he calls the "200% cure."
A 100% cure means you're no longer afraid.
A 200% cure means you actually enjoy doing the very thing you once feared.
Many people who overcome fears discover new passions that once seemed impossible.
Therapists can become afraid of their patients' anxiety.
Kevin and David discuss an important obstacle in treatment: therapists themselves sometimes avoid exposure because they're afraid it will overwhelm the client.
Ironically, protecting people from anxiety often prolongs suffering. Learning that anxiety is uncomfortable—but not dangerous—is one of the most healing discoveries patients can make.
Exposure requires willingness, not comfort.
The goal is never to feel relaxed before confronting a fear.
The goal is to become willing to experience anxiety while pursuing what matters.
Memorable Quotes
"When you confront the thing you're afraid of, you discover that the monster has no teeth."
"You don't have to be a hero. You just have to make the decision to do it."
"The 100% cure is you're no longer afraid. The 200% cure is that you love doing the thing you were once afraid of."
"The real harm is believing that anxiety itself is dangerous."
Resources Mentioned
Dr. David Burns' accompanying Psychology Today article, "How a Bloody Trauma Case Cured My Lifelong Blood Phobia."
TEAM-CBT and exposure techniques for treating anxiety disorders.
If You Enjoyed This Episode
If this conversation resonated with you, please subscribe to The Feeling Good Podcast, leave a rating or review, and share this episode with someone who struggles with anxiety or avoidance. Your support helps more people discover practical, evidence-based tools for overcoming fear and building happier lives.
Listener Survey
We'd love to hear from you!
Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this link to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode.
Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling.
Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast!
Contact Information
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me.
You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com.
Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app.
Feeling Great feels wonderful!
You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT!
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The Man Who Was Fired Five Times
How Letting Go of Blame Can Transform Your Life
Hosts:
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT
Dr. David Burns
What if the biggest obstacle to your happiness isn't your depression, your anxiety, or even the difficult people around you?
What if it's the belief that everyone else needs to change first?
In this powerful episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, Dr. David Burns and host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, discuss one of David's favorite therapy stories from his recent Psychology Today article, "The Man Who Was Fired Five Times." What begins as the story of a brilliant computer programmer who can't keep a job becomes an unforgettable lesson in overcoming resistance, building meaningful relationships, and discovering the extraordinary power of humility.
This episode is packed with practical TEAM-CBT techniques, fascinating therapy demonstrations, and one of the most inspiring recovery stories you'll ever hear.
In This Episode
A Brilliant Man Who Couldn't Keep a Job
David introduces us to "Bhagwant" (a pseudonym), an exceptionally gifted computer programmer who sought treatment after being fired five times in just two years.
Although he initially came to therapy complaining of low self-esteem, David quickly noticed something much deeper.
Bhagwant believed:
His coworkers were conspiring against him.
His bosses failed to appreciate his intelligence.
Other people were the source of nearly all his suffering.
Despite his obvious brilliance, his habit of blaming others had become the greatest obstacle to both his career and his happiness.
Why David Didn't Try to Help Him...At First
Instead of immediately offering therapy techniques, David did something surprising.
He told Bhagwant that perhaps they shouldn't work together.
Why?
Because therapy would require Bhagwant—not his coworkers—to do all of the changing.
Rather than arguing with Bhagwant or trying to convince him he was wrong, David used one of the most powerful TEAM-CBT methods:
Dangling the Carrot
By joining Bhagwant's resistance instead of fighting it, David completely changed the emotional dynamic.
Instead of saying:
"You're the problem."
He essentially said:
"You're right—it seems terribly unfair that you'd have to do all the work when everyone else is causing the problem."
That paradoxical response immediately dissolved Bhagwant's resistance.
Moments later, he admitted something he had hidden from David:
He hadn't merely been placed on probation.
He had already been fired—for the fifth time.
Why Specificity Matters
One of the central themes of the episode is David's insistence on working with specific moments instead of vague labels.
Rather than treating "low self-esteem" as the problem, David asks:
What happened?
Where were you?
What time was it?
What exactly were you thinking?
This "fractal" approach allows therapy to target the real thoughts creating emotional suffering instead of treating abstract diagnostic labels.
As David explains, problems can only be solved when they're connected to a real moment in time.
Recovery Begins with Practice
Once Bhagwant committed fully to treatment, he became an extraordinarily dedicated student of TEAM-CBT.
He learned to:
Identify cognitive distortions
Challenge negative thoughts using Externalization of Voices
Master the Five Secrets of Effective Communication
Replace defensiveness with curiosity and empathy
At one point, David actually had to limit Bhagwant's therapy homework because he was spending six to eight hours a day practicing.
The Job Interview That Changed Everything
Eventually Bhagwant received a job offer from a company in Florida.
David gave him one final piece of surprising advice:
Ask your new employer to agree to criticize you every single week.
Specifically, David suggested requesting regular meetings where supervisors would openly point out mistakes so Bhagwant could practice using the Five Secrets and the Disarming Technique.
The company agreed.
The results were astonishing.
Within weeks:
He had developed excellent relationships with coworkers.
He won Employee of the Month.
He received multiple promotions.
His salary doubled.
Years later, David received a Christmas card that brought tears to his eyes.
Bhagwant had become CEO of the very company that hired him.
The Disarming Technique
Much of the second half of the episode explores one of the most challenging—and most transformative—TEAM-CBT skills.
What Is Disarming?
Disarming means sincerely finding the truth in criticism, even when the criticism seems exaggerated or unfair.
David explains what he calls the Law of Opposites:
Defending yourself often convinces others the criticism is true.
Agreeing sincerely with whatever truth exists often causes the criticism to lose its power.
This simple paradox can dramatically transform difficult conversations.
Live Role-Playing
Kevin and David demonstrate the Disarming Technique through several live role plays.
David criticizes Kevin as being:
Fake
Inexperienced
Pretending to know more than he really does
Kevin practices agreeing with the truth in the criticism instead of defending himself.
David then coaches Kevin to go even deeper—not by problem-solving or trying to improve himself immediately, but by becoming genuinely curious about the other person's experience.
Later, the roles reverse, and Kevin criticizes David for being:
Cranky
Impatient
Insensitive
David demonstrates how quickly criticism melts away when someone responds with humility, openness, and genuine curiosity.
These demonstrations beautifully illustrate why the Disarming Technique is often one of the hardest TEAM-CBT skills to master—and one of the most powerful.
Why Resistance Matters
Throughout the episode, David explains that resistance is not an obstacle to therapy.
It's the doorway into effective therapy.
Rather than pushing people toward change, TEAM-CBT first helps people understand why changing feels difficult.
Once resistance melts away, motivation naturally appears.
Enlightenment and the "Death of the Self"
The conversation concludes with a reflection on one of David's favorite philosophical themes.
Drawing from Buddhist psychology, David discusses how learning to accept criticism requires what he calls "the death of the self"—letting go of pride, defensiveness, and the constant need to protect one's ego.
Rather than seeing criticism as an attack, we can learn to experience it as an opportunity for connection, growth, and deeper understanding.
Resource Mentioned
Dr. David Burns' Psychology Today article: "The Man Who Was Fired Five Times"
Memorable Takeaways
The biggest obstacle to change is often our resistance—not our symptoms.
Therapy becomes far more effective when it focuses on one specific moment instead of broad labels.
Defending yourself usually strengthens criticism; finding the truth in it often dissolves conflict.
Humility builds stronger relationships than winning arguments.
Learning to respond differently to criticism can transform not only your mood, but your career, your relationships, and your entire life.
Whether you're a therapist, a parent, a leader, or simply someone who wants healthier relationships, this episode offers practical tools and inspiring hope that lasting change is possible—even after years of frustration and failure.
Listener Survey
We'd love to hear from you!
Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this link to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode.
Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling.
Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast!
Contact Information
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me.
You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com.
Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app.
Feeling Great feels wonderful!
You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT!
Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!

Episode 515: Ask David

Parenting Meltdowns, Real-Time TEAM-CBT, and When Negative Thoughts Won't Stop
What do you do when your child has a public meltdown—and you feel your own frustration rising just as quickly?
And what if your mind feels so overwhelmed with anxious or depressive thoughts that completing a Daily Mood Log seems impossible?
In this Ask David episode, Dr. David Burns is joined by host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, and Psychiatrist/TEAM-CBT therapist Dr. Matt May to answer two thoughtful listener questions that many parents and therapy enthusiasts will recognize. Together, they demonstrate TEAM-CBT techniques live, showing not only what to do, but how to think differently in the moment.
Along the way, they explore why changing your relationship with your own thoughts is often more important than trying to control other people's behavior.
In This Episode
Question 1: How Do I Use TEAM-CBT in Real Time When My Child Has a Meltdown?
A listener describes taking his two young sons to the driving range when one child suddenly wants to leave while the other wants to stay. As frustration mounts, so do the automatic thoughts:
"He's being a brat."
"He's too immature for this."
"He's ungrateful and whines all the time."
Although the listener can challenge these thoughts later using a Daily Mood Log, he wonders:
How can I use TEAM-CBT in the middle of an emotionally charged parenting moment?
David, Kevin, and Matt explore this question through several live demonstrations.
Topics Include:
Why self-compassion comes before effective parenting
The danger of "should" statements directed at yourself
How beating yourself up actually makes it harder to respond compassionately
Why practice outside emotional moments prepares you for success inside emotional moments
Accepting your own imperfections as a parent
Matt demonstrates how to respond to his own inner critic using Externalization of Voices, replacing self-criticism with realistic self-acceptance instead of perfectionism.
Challenging "Shoulds" About Other People
The conversation then shifts to another common trap: Trying to make other people different than they are.
Together they examine several automatic thoughts parents commonly experience:
"He's being a brat."
"He's too immature."
"He's ungrateful."
David helps Matt and Kevin identify the cognitive distortions hiding inside these thoughts, including:
Labeling
Hidden should statements
Unrealistic expectations
Blaming
Rather than arguing intellectually, they demonstrate TEAM-CBT methods such as:
Acceptance Paradox
Self-Defense
Counterattack
Externalization of Voices
The discussion highlights an important insight:
Much of our emotional suffering comes not from other people's behavior—but from insisting they should be different than they are.
Kevin shares a personal story about using the Feeling Great app's Paradoxical Magnification exercise to dissolve his own "should" statements about parenting through humor and acceptance.
Question 2: What If My Mind Never Stops Producing Negative Thoughts?
The second listener has struggled with depression and anxiety since adolescence.
Although he believes in TEAM-CBT, he finds the Daily Mood Log overwhelming because his mind produces what feels like hundreds of negative thoughts every minute.
His questions include:
How long should I spend on a Daily Mood Log?
Do I need to answer every negative thought?
Why can't I create positive thoughts that actually feel believable?
David's Advice
Dr. Burns explains that:
10–20 minutes of Daily Mood Log work is usually enough.
You do not need to answer every negative thought.
Most automatic thoughts are simply variations of a handful of core beliefs.
Consistent practice matters much more than perfection.
Using his own recovery after recent surgery as an example, David reminds listeners that small, steady efforts often produce remarkable long-term change.
Helpful TEAM-CBT Strategies Discussed
Kevin describes how simply sitting down with the Daily Mood Log often quiets his racing mind and helps him focus on what truly matters.
David recommends another powerful exercise:
Negative Practice
Instead of fighting racing thoughts:
Schedule a few minutes.
Record every negative thought without challenging them.
Then listen back to the recording.
Many people discover that simply hearing their thoughts aloud changes their relationship to them.
Matt also emphasizes several uncovering techniques that help identify the deeper beliefs generating so many automatic thoughts, including:
The What-If Technique
Individual Downward Arrow
Cost-Benefit Analysis
Positive Reframing
Rather than trying to "think positively," TEAM-CBT first helps eliminate the hidden resistance that makes positive thoughts difficult to believe.
A Quick Speed Round
Near the end of the episode, David introduces a new experiment:
Rapid-fire Ask David answers.
In just thirty seconds, he explains one of the central concepts from Feeling Great:
The Four Deaths of the Self
The death of the Special Self (depression)
The death of the Fearful Self (anxiety)
The death of the Angry, Blaming Self (relationship conflict)
The death of the Entitled Pleasure-Seeking Self (habits and addictions)
David explains that each "death" ultimately reveals something surprising:
There was never anything essential to lose—only freedom to gain.
Listener Feedback
The team asks for your input:
Would you rather hear:
Longer, in-depth discussions of just a few questions?
Faster "speed round" answers covering many listener questions?
Let them know through this week's listener survey.
Resources Mentioned
Feeling Great by Dr. David Burns
The Feeling Great App
Episode 507: Mastering the Daily Mood Log: Small Details, Life-Changing Results
Daily Mood Log
Memorable Takeaways
Self-compassion is often the first step toward becoming the parent you want to be.
Your emotional suffering usually comes from your thoughts—not from other people's behavior.
You don't need to defeat every negative thought to feel dramatically better.
Practice emotional skills when you're calm so they're available when emotions run high.
Small, consistent Daily Mood Log work can create profound change over time.
As always, thank you for listening to the Feeling Good Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and send us your questions—you just might hear them discussed on a future Ask David episode.
Contact Information
You can reach Matt May, MD @ https://www.matthewmaymd.com
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me.
You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com.
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