Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

Is it Time for a New Approach to Emotional Suffering?
Advantages and Disadvantages of DSM Diagnoses
Hosts:
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT
Dr. David Burns
Episode Summary
In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. David Burns and host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT explore a topic that shapes nearly every corner of modern mental health care: psychiatric diagnosis.
For decades, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) has defined how clinicians diagnose, treat, and research emotional suffering. But what if many of these diagnostic categories don't represent distinct medical diseases? What if they are simply normal human emotions—like sadness, anxiety, or shame—occurring on a spectrum?
Dr. Burns draws on decades of clinical experience, research, and insights from TEAM-CBT to question the assumptions behind psychiatric labeling. While diagnoses can sometimes reduce stigma or help people access care, they can also unintentionally shape identity, medicalize everyday emotional struggles, and distract from the real drivers of emotional pain.
This episode offers a nuanced conversation about labels, measurement, therapy, and what actually helps people recover from depression and anxiety.
In This Episode You'll Learn
What the DSM is—and why it became so influential
How the DSM functions as the "diagnostic bible" of psychiatry
Why the system was originally designed for research standardization, not necessarily for everyday clinical treatment
The difference between true mental disorders and normal emotional experiences
Examples of genuine brain disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar I disorder
Why many DSM diagnoses describe normal emotions taken to an extreme
How everyday struggles became medical diagnoses
Shyness becoming "social anxiety disorder"
Chronic worry becoming "generalized anxiety disorder"
Why time-based thresholds (like "14 days of depression") can be arbitrary
The unintended consequences of diagnostic labels
How labels can reinforce feelings of shame or defectiveness
Why diagnoses can sometimes lead to over-medicalization and medication-focused care
Why measurement matters more than diagnosis in therapy
Dr. Burns explains how simple mood scales can quickly assess a patient's emotional state
Research showing that DSM diagnoses often add little predictive value for treatment outcomes
A surprising research finding
After lengthy diagnostic interviews, clinicians were only 3–5% accurate at estimating patients' feelings in the moment
What this reveals about the limits of traditional diagnostic approaches
Why focusing on thoughts may be the key
According to cognitive research, negative thoughts drive emotional suffering
Effective therapy focuses on identifying and transforming these thoughts
Hope for people who feel defined by a diagnosis
Why diagnoses do not determine your ability to recover
How targeted cognitive techniques can sometimes produce rapid improvements—even within a single session
Benefits of Diagnosis (According to Dr. Burns)
While the episode critiques diagnostic labeling, the conversation also highlights situations where diagnoses can help:
Access to insurance coverage
Eligibility for disability or academic accommodations
Temporary relief from self-blame
Clear communication in research studies
Key Takeaway
Mental health diagnoses can sometimes be useful administrative tools—but they should never define who you are.
Real healing often comes from understanding the specific thoughts, moments, and experiences that drive emotional pain, and learning practical methods to change them.
Mentioned in This Episode
Dr. Burns' article: "Is It Time for a New Approach to Emotional Suffering?" (Psychology Today)
TEAM-CBT approach to psychotherapy
Brief Mood Survey and other measurement tools used in therapy
Memorable Quote
"We treat humans, not disorders."
Connect & Learn More
Read Dr. Burns' latest articles on Psychology Today
Explore more tools and resources at FeelingGood.com
Learn about TEAM-CBT training and techniques
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, sharing the podcast, or leaving a review. It helps more people discover tools for overcoming depression and anxiety.
Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode
Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode
Contact Information
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at www.tools4change.me.
You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected].
Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app.
Feeling Great feels wonderful!
You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT!
Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!

COMING UP IN JUNE: Fast Track to LEVEL 3 TEAM CBT Certification
Hi there! If you're a therapist looking to strengthen your TEAM CBT skills and earn continuing education credit, here's an exceptional opportunity coming up in June 2026.
Feeling Good Institute's
Fast Track to Level 3 TEAM CBT Certification
Starts June 22, 2026 • 25 weeks • 46 CEs
Special Offer for Podcast Listeners:
Use discount code FRIEND for a course price of $795.
Learn More and Enroll Now at FastTrackCBT.com.
If you want to level up your therapy skills for the rest of your career, this may be the ideal time.

Ask David: Is High Speed Change a Quick Fix?
Trauma, Anxiety, and What Really Works
Hosts:
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT
Dr. David Burns
Guest: Dr. Rhonda Barovsky
Episode Summary
In this powerful Ask David episode, Dr. David Burns, Kevin Cornelius, and Dr. Rhonda Barovsky tackle two deeply important listener questions:
Is rapid emotional recovery just a "quick fix," especially for people with severe trauma?
How can someone manage intense anxiety and "what if" thoughts in the moment—when they keep coming back?
Through vivid clinical stories, real examples from the Feeling Great app, and live demonstrations of TEAM-CBT techniques, the panel explores why working in the present moment can lead to profound and lasting emotional change—even for people with severe trauma histories.
Question 1: Is Fast Change Just a "Quick Fix"?
Dr. Burns responds to a question inspired by the story of Elise, a Holocaust survivor who recovered from severe depression after challenging a single, devastating belief:
"I've never accomplished anything meaningful in my life."
When that belief was overturned, Elise's depression disappeared—immediately.
Listeners often wonder:
Was something deeper left unresolved?
Doesn't trauma require long-term exploration of the past?
Dr. Burns shares:
50 years of clinical experience producing rapid, measurable symptom elimination
Research from the Feeling Great app showing that current thoughts—not past suffering—predict change
Why working in the present moment automatically transforms the past
Why many therapy schools rely on belief systems rather than data
He also discusses new findings (recently published in Psychology Today) showing that prior depression over the last two years adds zero predictive value once current mood and thoughts are addressed. "The moment you're in is vastly more important than the one you remember."
Question 2: What If My Anxious Thoughts Keep Coming Back?
The second question comes from Dina, a college student overwhelmed by social anxiety and catastrophic "what if" thoughts about meeting with her professor.
Despite successfully completing a Daily Mood Log and reducing her anxiety to near zero, Dina finds that the thoughts keep returning in real-life situations.
The team explains why this happens—and what to do next.
Key strategies discussed:
Why cognitive work alone isn't enough for anxiety
The importance of exposure and testing fears in real situations
Using self-disclosure to dissolve shame
Turning anxiety into connection rather than avoidance
Role-playing feared scenarios ("Professor from Hell")
Externalization of voices
Feared fantasy and "what-if" techniques
Shame-attacking exercises
Asking for real feedback instead of guessing what others think
Identifying hidden emotions (such as unexpressed anger)
Understanding interpersonal roles and rules that fuel anxiety
Multiple techniques are demonstrated live, showing how anxiety collapses when fears are brought into the open with warmth, humor, and honesty.
Key Takeaways
Rapid emotional change is not a gimmick—it can be measured, replicated, and sustained
Trauma is embedded in the present moment, not trapped in the past
Anxiety persists when we hide, not when we feel
Exposure + self-disclosure = freedom
You don't need to eliminate negative thoughts—just stop believing them
The Feeling Great app offers free, evidence-based tools anyone can use
Tools & Resources Mentioned
Feeling Great App (free): https://feelinggreat.com
Daily Mood Log
TEAM-CBT tools: Motivational Methods
Cognitive Techniques
Exposure
Hidden Emotion Work

Five Secrets of Effective Communication
Psychology Today article: "The Moment You're In Is Vastly More Important Than the One You Remember"
Memorable Quotes
"When we change the present, we change the past." — Dr. David Burns
"Shame is like a vampire—it can't survive the light of day."
"Stop doing one thing and expecting it to work for everyone."
"You don't need to be perfect to feel better."
Listener Invitation
Have a question you'd like Dr. Burns to answer on a future episode?
Submit it through the Feeling Great app or the Feeling Good Podcast website.
Kevin, Rhonda, and I thank you for listening today! 
Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode
Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode
Contact Information
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at www.tools4change.me.
Dr. Rhonda Barovsky is a Level 5 Certified TEAM-CBT Master Therapist and Trainer and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. Check out her website: www.feelinggreattherapycenter.com.
You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected].
Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app.
Feeling Great feels wonderful!
You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT!
Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!

Ask David: Help! Relentless Anger! Nothing Works!
Is Freedom of Speech a "Need?"
Hosts:
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT
Dr. David Burns
Guest: Dr. Rhonda Barovsky
Today I am thrilled to be working with our new host for the Feeling Good Podcast, Mr. Kevin Cornelius, a dear friend and brilliant therapist who works as a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist at the Feeling Good Institute in Mt. View, California. Today, Keven starts a multi-podcast trial as our new host to find out how he likes the new position, and how you, are audience feel. It will be hard for anyone to fill Rhonda's shoes, of course, but Kevin brings his own combination of warmth, charm, and brilliance to the show. I hope you like the new show! Let us know what you think!
Today, we address three questions:
Question #1: How do you deal with a "relentlessly angry" patient who does not respond to the five secrets of effective communication?
Question #2: How can I deal with a patient who may have been triggered by my phone call when I had to change l a scheduled session?
Question #3: Zach asks if freedom of speech is a "want" or a "need."
Hi David and Kevin:
I have cleared my schedule so I can be there to support Kevin in his first podcast,.
I have two questions for the Ask David podcast:
1.) How do you handle a "relentlessly angry" patient? By that I mean, one of your patient's is upset with you, you respond with a skillful 5-secrets response and yet they continue being angry with you, even screaming at you for 30 minutes.
David's comment: The discussion of this excellent question got a little heated, as David pointed out that in his experience, when people say "I tried the Five Secrets and it didn't work," 100% of the time they did not actually do a skillful job with the Five Secrets. David asked for the familiar format: What is ONE thing the (angry) patient said, and what, EXACTLY, did you say next? Put this on a Relationship Journal and you will be able to spot your errors right away.
David reports that this format does tend to anger people who don't want to have to examine their own role in a relationship problem. The idea that they may have botched the Five Secrets appears to be deeply disturbing, hence the heated discussion today.
2.) How do you handle what is happening "in the here and now" immediate moment, the here and now, with your patient? For example, I had to change an appointment with a patient, she became really angry, and then cancelled her next appointment. One of my colleagues suggested that my patient might have felt triggered when I cancelled the appointment. My colleague suggested I talk to her about what happened when I asked her to change the appointment because if she felt abandoned by me she might have the same experience with other people. How would I bring up what is happening in our relationship with my patient, that they may also experience in other relationships?
I could probably think of a few more,
Rhonda
3) Dear Dr. Burns,
Hello. I hope this message finds you well. I'm writing to ask you a question that has been on my mind.
You have mentioned before that freedom of speech is an important part of your value system. I'm curious about how you would frame it psychologically: do you see freedom of speech more as a want, or as a need?
Relatedly, for people living in non-democratic countries, do you think it is still possible to achieve a high level of happiness without freedom of speech?
I would greatly appreciate your thoughts when you have the time. Thank you very much for your work and for sharing your perspectives.
Warm regards,
Zack
David's Comment: This led to a lively discussion and a consensus on our panel today. We decided that freedom of speech is a great thing, and a strong want, but not a "need." David added: "I am certain that you can find happiness by focusing on the things most important to you, but no one can be happy all the time. We desperately WANT, but definitely do not NEED, freedom of speech. Of course, you can say, "we need it to have a fully functioning democracy," and that is true, but it true by definition.
Kevin, Rhonda, and David thank you for listening today. Again, let us know what you think!
Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode
Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode
Contact Information
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at www.tools4change.me.
Dr. Rhonda Barovsky is a Level 5 Certified TEAM-CBT Master Therapist and Trainer and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. Check out her website: www.feelinggreattherapycenter.com.
You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected].
Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app.
Feeling Great feels wonderful!
You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT!
Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!

500: Celebrating Rhonda's Triumphant Leadership -
and a Sad Goodbye
In this very special 500th episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, Matt May, Jill Levitt and I pause to celebrate a remarkable milestone, our 500th episode of the Feeling Good podcast, and to honor someone who has been at the heart of it for the past 273 episodes: Rhonda Barovsky
Since stepping into the role of host, Rhonda has brought warmth, wisdom, curiosity, and deep compassion to every conversation. Her presence has helped shape the podcast into a trusted space for learning, healing, personal growth, and building the TEAM community. Week after week, she has guided thoughtful discussions on mood, relationships, anxiety, depression, and the many challenges of being human—with authenticity and grace.
Rhonda's unique ability to ask meaningful questions, highlight practical tools, and connect with listeners has made an immeasurable impact. Whether exploring TEAM CBT techniques or sharing personal reflections, she has helped countless listeners feel seen, understood, and empowered.
As Rhonda steps down from her role as host, this episode is dedicated to celebrating her contributions and expressing deep gratitude for all she has given to this community.
In this episode, we:
Reflect on Rhonda's journey with the podcast and how she became such an integral part of its success
Highlight memorable moments and favorite episodes from her time as host
Share behind-the-scenes stories and personal reflections
Express appreciation from listeners and the broader Feeling Good community
This is not goodbye—it's a transition. Rhonda leaves behind a powerful legacy and a strong foundation that will continue to inspire future episodes and listeners around the world.
Thank you, Rhonda, for your dedication, your heart, and your unwavering commitment to helping people feel better.
And to our listeners: thank you for being part of these 500 episodes. We're so glad you're here—and we're excited for what comes next as Kevin Cornelius steps into the role of the Feeling Good Podcast host.  Welcome, Kevin!
Warmly,
David, Rhonda, Matt and Jill