Is It? The Art Mystery Podcast

In this episode, we’re turning our attention to the work of Mahmoud Sa'id, one of the most important and influential figures in modern Egyptian art. Trained in Europe yet deeply rooted in Egyptian culture, Sa’id created a body of work that blends academic technique with a distinctly local vision. His paintings occupy a central place in the history of twentieth-century Egyptian modernism—and they also raise important questions about attribution, variation, and legacy.
 
To discuss a painting that she selected for AI image analysis, I’m joined by Jehane Ragai, emeritus professor of chemistry at the American University in Cairo. Professor Ragai is a pioneer in the scientific analysis of artworks, with decades of experience applying chemistry and materials science to questions of attribution, authenticity, and conservation. Her work has been especially influential in the study of modern Egyptian painting, where scientific evidence can play a crucial role in clarifying complex art-historical and market questions. She’s the author of two excellent books that are sitting on my shelf: "The Scientist and the Forger" and "Technical Art History."
 
I’m also joined by Batu Arda Düzgün, AI Developer at Art Recognition, where he works at the intersection of machine learning, visual analysis, and art authentication. Batu develops systems that analyze artistic patterns at a level of scale and precision impossible for the human eye alone, offering new tools for understanding authorship, consistency, and deviation within an artist’s oeuvre.
 
Let's ask the question: Is it a Sa'id?

This episode of Is It? the art mystery podcasts looks at a small painting at the Philadelphia Museum of Art which is largely attributed to Jan van Eyck: "Saint Francis Receiving the Stigmata." But is it actually by van Eyck? To discuss this and the results of the cutting-edge AI image analysis by Art Recognition, I'll speak with Till-Holger Borchert, director of the Suermondt-Ludwig-Museum in Aachen, and an authority on van Eyck. 
To see the painting in question, displayed at the Philadelphia Museum of Art click here.
To see the other version of the painting, displayed at the Sabauda Gallery in Turin, click here.
To learn more about Till-Holger Borchert, click here.
To learn more about Art Recognition, click here.

This episode is about the Guidelines on the Ethical Use of AI for Image Analysis in Art Authentication. AI is everywhere, but that means that the term is being used with sometimes reckless abandon. For any serious field—like art attribution—it’s important to lay out recommendations for how best, most transparently, and most effectively to use AI.
 
These guidelines were developed jointly by Art Recognition and the Center for Art Law (with a little help from me), and they offer a framework for how artificial intelligence can be used responsibly, transparently, and collaboratively in the authentication of artworks. To discuss the guidelines, I’ve invited Carina Popovici, co-founder of Art Recognition and a past guest on this podcast, and Irina Tarsis, the founder of the Center for Art Law. The three of us were the main drivers of these guidelines, with significant feedback and input from a variety of others, many lawyers working with the Center for Art Law.
 
See the Guidelines themselves by visiting https://art-recognition.com/ or https://itsartlaw.org/ or direct download here.

Today’s mystery centers on a painter of light and silence—Georges de La Tour. His candlelit saints and beggars are hauntingly still, so perfect in their quiet intensity that they almost seem modern. But as with many great artists, the line between what’s real, what’s a copy, and what’s an outright forgery can get blurry. To help us untangle this mystery, I’m joined once again by Carina Popovici, co-founder and CEO of Art Recognition, the Swiss company using artificial intelligence to authenticate artworks. And with us for the first time, my own former professor at Colby College, art historian Veronique Plesch. Together, we’re going to test a painting that just might be by one of France’s most enigmatic masters.

Today’s featured picture is called Portrait of a Man. It certainly looks like a Velazquez. But you know what question I’m going to ask. Is it?
 
To answer this question, I've invited two guests. First, Batu Arda Düzgün, originally from Turkey, is a researcher at Art Recognition, a company that uses artificial intelligence to help authenticate artworks. With a background that spans both computer science and art history, Arda is at the forefront of applying cutting-edge machine learning to some of the oldest and most mysterious paintings in the world.
 
Joining him is British art historian Matthew Wilson, an expert on visual symbolism and the author of several widely-read books, including Symbols in Art, The Hidden Language of Symbols, and Art Unpacked, all published by Thames & Hudson. Matthew’s work uncovers the layers of meaning behind what we see, offering insight into the codes, allegories, and visual metaphors that artists have used across centuries. Arda’s work likewise uncovers layers of meaning but in the form of complex image analysis and the use of AI. What do they have to say about the artwork featured in today’s episode? Listen to find out.