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Rethinking Divinity: The Limited God and the Fine-Tuned Universe
"How does the concept of a 'limited God' differ from traditional theistic views, and what implications does this have for understanding the purpose of the universe and human existence?" John Vervaeke is joined by Phillip Goff to discuss his influential book, Why? The Purpose of the Universe, and his unique perspective on panpsychism. The duo discuss the intricate philosophical questions concerning the nature of consciousness, the purpose of the universe, and the existential meaning that interweaves with our fundamental worldview. Goff elucidates his nuanced yet respected stance on panpsychism, highlighting his academic contributions at Durham University. Goff introduces the concept of a "goddish" entity, explaining that the universe may have a sense of purpose or goal-directedness without adhering to traditional theistic views. Goff and John examine the commonalities between Goff's ideas and Neoplatonism, as well as Whitehead's process theology, noting the importance of a unifying principle in the universe. The dialogue also touches on holistic perspectives on health, highlighting the interconnectedness of physical, mental, and spiritual well-being. Phillip Goff is a philosophy professor at Durham University, UK, who dedicates most of his time to unraveling the ultimate nature of reality. In his recent book, Why? The Purpose of the Universe (Oxford University Press, 2023), he explores the middle ground between traditional belief in God and secular atheism. Goff recently converted to a form of 'heretical Christianity,' which he discusses in this article and this interview. Some of the big themes of his research include the nature of consciousness, panpsychism, and the purpose of the universe. He also actively engages in philosophical debates on X and Bluesky and co-hosts the podcast Mind Chat with Keith Frankish, a philosopher who holds polar opposite views. Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon. Notes: (0:00) Introduction to the Lectern (3:15) Philip Goff joins John to discuss Panpsychism (3:30) Background of Philip and his works (6:00) Exploring the Concept of God and Purpose (9:00) Debating Theistic and Non-Theistic Views (11:30) Beyond Traditional Theism (24:00) Eastern Orthodoxy and Neoplatonism (26:30) From Panpsychism to Faith (32:00) Challenging the Limited God (37:00) Divine Creativity and Limitations (46:00) Exploring Panentheism and God's Nature (47:00) The Vine and the Branches - Unity with God (50:00) The Meaning Crisis and Existential Questions (53:00) Four Pillars of Meaning in Life (56:30) Purpose vs. Orientation in Life's Meaning (1:02:30) ”There's a very important social role religion has played historically in bringing the community together, marking the seasons and the big moments of life, birth, coming of age, marriage, death. Giving people a framework and a focus for spiritual practice, a way of interpreting and responding to their deepest experiences.” (1:16:30) Reimagining Religion and Holistic Health (1:22:30) Parting Words --- Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon. The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode: Panpsychism Goddish entity Meaning Crisis Neoplatonism connection Whitehead's theology Holistic health Heretical Christianity John Hick Tim Mulgan David Bentley Hart Karen Armstrong Keith Frankish The Fifth Dimension The Interpretation of Religion Galileo's Error Fine-Tuning in Physics Cosmic Purpose and Human Contribution "The Interpretation of Religion" by John Hick "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" by John Vervaeke "Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature is Almost Certainly False" by Thomas Nagel "Life After Faith" by Philip Kitcher "The Case for God" by Karen Armstrong Quotes: "Every generation absorbs a worldview it can't see beyond. I think future historians will look back and ask, why did people ignore the evidence for cosmic purpose for so long?" (10:00) "Faith is not about certainty; it’s about trust—a way of interpreting your deepest experiences and shaping your fundamental life goals." (29:00) "If there’s purpose in the universe, maybe we can contribute to the meaning of existence itself. That’s a powerful and hopeful idea." (1:01:00) Philip Goff: Website | X | Podcast — Thank you for Listening!
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1:26:51
How Jhana Meditation Facilitates Insight and Cognitive Flexibility
Question - "How does Jhana meditation simplify experience to facilitate insight and cognitive flexibility?" John Vervaeke is joined by Mark Miller, Rick Repetti, to explore the intersection of predictive processing, relevance realization, and embodied cognition in contemplative practices. They introduce PhD candidate Jonas Mago, who discusses his research on Jhana meditation and its impact on cognitive flexibility and insight. The conversation touches on contrasting Jhana practices with charismatic Christian traditions such as speaking in tongues. They also explore how Jhana states temporarily reduce the complexity of perception, allowing practitioners to observe the construction and deconstruction of their experiential models. The neuroscientific evidence provided, such as changes in brain responses during these states, adds depth to this exploration, illustrating how such simplification can lead to profound insights. Mark Miller, a philosopher and cognitive scientist, holds a senior research fellowship at Monash University's Center for Consciousness and Contemplative Studies in Australia, with affiliations at the University of Toronto and Hokkaido University in Japan. His work, which dives into the interplay between human thought, technology's impact on well-being, and human-computer interaction, is at the forefront of integrating cognitive neuroscience with philosophical inquiry. Rick Repetti is Professor of Philosophy at Kingsborough Community College, CUNY, USA. He is the author of The Counterfactual Theory of Free Will (2010), as well as several articles on Buddhism, meditation, free will, and philosophy of religion. Jonas Mago is a cognitive neuroscientist and wellbeing aficionado, deeply invested in understanding the cognitive and neurobiological mechanisms underlying human flourishing. His research explores contemplative practices designed to cultivate wholesome states of mind—spanning meditation, prayer, collective cultural rituals, and psychedelic therapies. I approach these topics from an interdisciplinary perspective, integrating cognitive science, neurobiology, computational modeling, and phenomenology to investigate mechanisms of self-regulation and transformation. He is currently pursuing my doctoral studies in Neuroscience at McGill University under the supervision of Dr. Michael Lifshitz, with co-supervision from Prof. Dr. Karl Friston. His academic journey includes a master’s degree in Mind, Language, and Embodied Cognition from the University of Edinburgh (UK) and undergraduate studies in Liberal Arts and Sciences at University College Maastricht (Netherlands). Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon. Notes: (0:00) Introduction to the Lectern. This is the beginning of The Predictive Processing Series (0:30) Mark Miller, Rick Repetti, and Jonas Mago joins John Vervaeke (1:30) Predictive Processing and Meditation (4:00) Inside Jhanas Meditation (10:00) Phenomenology and Cognitive Functions of Jhanas (11:30) “Is Jhanas essential for the path of awakening?” (13:00) Predictive Coding and Cognitive Models (18:00) Jhana meditation and the transient nature of predictive models (25:00) Analysis of the risks and benefits associated with Jhana practice (30:00) EEG Studies on Jhana Practitioners (37:00) Jhana versus Pure Consciousness (45:00) High Arousal Contemplative States: Jhana and Christian prayer (54:00) The Importance of Context in Contemplative Practices (1:05:00) Final Words --- The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode: Predictive Processing Epistemic Vulnerability Metacognition Absorption States fMRI Studies Sangha EEG Studies Relevance Realization Embodied Cognition Jhana Meditation Thomas Metzinger Michael Lifshitz Alton Ram Dass Buddha Tanya Luhrmann Shaila Catherine Metzinger, T. (2021). The Elephant and the Blind: Insights into pure consciousness experiences. Lerman, T. (2012). When God Talks Back: A study on evangelical experiences of speaking in tongues. Quotes: “What we're trying in, in meditation is starting to model our predictive hierarchy of the brain opaque. So to notice that experience ultimately is not something that's, that's kind of a real grasp on reality, that all we have is this imprint of reality on our experiential or generative modeling, through this, this predictive hierarchy.” "The interplay between micro and macro perspectives mirrors the flexibility we aim for in meditation and science." "Epistemic vulnerability can be a doorway to growth if properly framed—or a risk without it." Mark Miller: Website | X | Podcast | YouTube Rick Repetti: Website | X | Facebook Jonas Mago: Website | X | — Thank you for Listening!
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1:08:14
Philosophical Connections: Relational Ontology and the Modern Crisis
John Vervaeke engages in a profound discussion with James Filler, author of 'Heidegger, Neoplatonism, and the History of Being'. They examine the core arguments of Jame’s book, which emphasizes relationality as more fundamental than individual existence in understanding reality. The conversation explores Neoplatonism, Heidegger's philosophy, and the convergence of these ideas with contemporary physics and biology. James recounts his journey in developing his dissertation into a pivotal work aimed at reorienting ontological perspectives. John and James also discuss the trajectory of Western and Eastern Christian thought, touching upon relational ontology's scientific and ethical ramifications. James Filler is the author of Heidegger, Neoplatonism, and the History of Being, a groundbreaking work exploring the philosophical underpinnings of relational ontology. His forthcoming book, Substance Ontology and the Crisis of Reason deepens the critique of substance thinking in Western philosophy. Notes: (0:00) Welcome to the Lectern (1:00) Core themes of Heidegger, Neoplatonism, and the History of Being (3:00) Background of James Filler (5:30) Core argument of the book (10:00) The philosophical debate between Parmenides and Heraclitus (15:00) Ontological relationality and its philosophical implications (25:00) Heidegger's dialogue with Asian philosophy and the Christian trinity (34:00) Western vs. Eastern Christianity - diverging paths (40:00) A critique of Process Philosophy (48:30) The conceptual and ethical implications of historical Christian interpretations (51:30) Distinction between discursive and non-discursive reasoning (58:30) Substance ontology and the crisis of reason (1:03:00) Addressing the crisis of rationality in modernity (1:11:00) Final reflections on relationality and its broader impacts --- Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon. The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode Martin Heidegger Plotinus Aristotle St. Gregory Heraclitus Parmenides Plato Jordan Hall Evan Thompson Relationality Neoplatonism Substance Ontology Trinity Process Philosophy Virtue Epistemology Humility Dialogical Rationality "Heidegger, Neoplatonism, and the History of Being" by James Filler "Substance Ontology and the Crisis of Reason" by James Filler (upcoming book) "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" by John "Recovering Plato: A Platonic Virtue Epistemology" by James Filler (published in Episteme) "The Divine Matrix" by David Ray Griffin "The One" by Paas "Being and Time" by Martin Heidegger "The Republic" by Plato "The Enneads" by Plotinus "Metaphysics" by Aristotle Quotes: "Relationality is itself more primordial, more fundamental to understanding the nature of reality." "To be independent in the first place required a relation—because to be independent means there's something you're independent from." "Our rationality operates best dialogically, not nomologically, which aligns deeply with relational ontology."
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1:16:08
Decoding the Enigma of Consciousness: Life, Cognition, and the Nature of Awareness | Evan Thompson
John Vervaeke and Evan Thompson continue the exploration of life, cognition, and consciousness, drawing from interdisciplinary collaboration and philosophical discourse. The discussion challenges reductionist perspectives in biology, examines organisms as autonomous agents, and questions the adequacy of current models to explain life's complexities. Consciousness is explored through presence and embodiment, while also debating the roles of large language models like ChatGPT in understanding cognitive processes. By integrating philosophical and phenomenological perspectives, the episode addresses the interconnectedness of consciousness, cognition, and life, transcending traditional mind-matter dichotomies and emphasizing the significance of embodiment in cognitive functions. Evan Thompson is a philosopher and author, specializing in the integration of cognitive science, philosophy of mind, and Asian philosophical traditions. Based at the University of British Columbia, his work, including his recent book 'The Blind Spot', examines the intersections of consciousness, experience, and reality through a comprehensive interdisciplinary approach. Immerse yourself in the groundbreaking insights of Evan Thompson's thought-provoking book, "The Blind Spot: Why Science Cannot Ignore Human Experience” Notes: (0:00) Introduction: Welcome to the Lectern (0:15) Evan Thompson's Background and the Book 'The Blind Spot' (2:10) The Blind Spot in Perception: Cognitive Science, Asian Philosophy, and Mystical Insight (2:30) Revolution in Biology: Life, Cognition, and Consciousness (5:00) Autonomous Agents vs. Machines (11:30) Challenges to Newtonian Mechanics and Reductionist Ontology (22:00) Life as Self-Enabling, Not law-Entailing (32:00) Historical and Nomological Explanations in Biology (39:00) Epiphenomenalism (43:00) Debunking Computational Functionalism (45:00) Exploring Cognition and Relevance Realization (49:00) Limits of AI (51:00) The Energy and Social Costs of AI (1:00:00) Structures of Consciousness (1:08:00) The Primacy of Awareness and Embodiment (1:22:00) Concluding Thoughts and Future Discussions --- Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon. The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Evan Thompson: Website | Twitter | Facebook Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode The Blind Spot: Why Science Cannot Ignore Human Experience - book co-authored by Evan Thompson, Adam Frank, and Marcelo Gleiser Waking, Dreaming, Being: Self and Consciousness in Neuroscience, Meditation, and Philosophy - book by Evan Thompson Why I Am Not a Buddhist - book by Evan Thompson The Nature of Selection: Evolutionary Theory in Philosophical Focus by Elliott Sober The Watchmen (comic series) by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons The Relevance Realization (paper) by John Vervaeke and colleagues Chalmers' work on consciousness works by David Chalmers The Visible and the Invisible by Maurice Merleau-Ponty Neoplatonism Hegelian Philosophy Immanuel Kant Alfred North Whitehead Douglas Harding Marcelo Gleiser Quotes: “Organisms are autonomous agents, not machines.” -Evan Thompson (4:00) “Consciousness has the order of priority in terms of intelligibility or meaning.” -Evan Thompson (1:04:00)
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1:26:33
Lectern Dialogues: Concept of Daimon in Pre-Platonic and Platonic Thought | Charles Stang
In this episode, John Vervaeke and Harvard professor Charles Stang explore the concept of the 'daimon’', stemming from Stang's book Our Divine Double. John and Charles discuss semi-autonomous entities in psychological and philosophical contexts, linking ancient wisdom and modern cognitive science. Key topics include Socratic 'daimonion', Platonic thought, phenomenology of visionary encounters, and cultural ontology. They emphasize the embodied, embedded, enacted, and extended nature of cognition, highlighting the relevance of understanding these phenomena amid emerging technologies like AGI and virtual realities. The episode calls for Socratic self-awareness to navigate these transformative potentials and risks. Charles Stang is a Professor of Theology at Harvard Divinity School and Director of the Center for the Study of World Religions. His research focuses on ancient Mediterranean religions, Neoplatonism, and contemporary philosophy and spirituality. His research and teaching focus on the history of Christianity in the context of the ancient Mediterranean world, especially Eastern varieties of Christianity. More specifically, his interests include: the development of asceticism, monasticism, and mysticism in Christianity; ancient philosophy, especially Neoplatonism; the Syriac Christian tradition, especially the spread of the East Syrian tradition along the Silk Road; other philosophical and religious movements of the ancient Mediterranean, including Gnosticism, Hermeticism, and Manichaeism; and modern continental philosophy and theology, especially as they intersect with the study of religion. Notes: (0:00) Introduction: Welcome to the Lectern (2:30) Charles Stang, Background, Framework (4:45) John’s Experience and Dialogue with Hermes (IFS) (7:45) IFS (Internal Family Systems) - a psychotherapy model that focuses on dialoguing with various parts of the self (10:00) Platonic Tradition and Daimonology (15:00) Socrates and the Concept of Daimonion in Plato's Apology (20:40) Real-Life Accounts of Felt Presence (28:00) Socrates' Complex Relationship with the Imaginal (33:00) Socrates' Authority vs. Rational Argument (41:30) Corbin's Notion of the Imaginal (46:30) Daimonology and Angelology - Encounters with the Higher Self (49:00) The Role of Hermes in Personal Encounters (54:30) Lucid Dreaming and Cognitive Science (1:03:30) The Interplay of Subjective and Objective Realities (01:12:00) Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions --- Connect with a community dedicated to self-discovery and purpose, and gain deeper insights by joining our Patreon. The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode Plato, Apology Plato, Republic Charles Stang, Our Divine Double John Geiger, The Third Man Factor: Surviving the Impossible Henry Corbin, The Man of Light in Iranian Sufism Henry Corbin, Alone with the Alone: Creative Imagination in the Sufism of Ibn 'Arabi' Gregory Shaw, Theurgy and the Soul: The Neoplationism of Iamblichus Socrates Socratic philosophy Daimonion (Divine sign) David Gordon White, Daemons Are Forever: Contacts and Exchanges in the Eurasian Pandemonium Porphyry, Life of Plotinus Daimonology Paul VanderKlay Christopher Mastropietro Carl Jung Theurgy Internal Family Systems (IFS) Quotes: "Socrates’ daimonion was unique in that it only ever told him ‘no,’ which highlights its role as a dissuading force rather than a guiding one." — Charles Stang (13:30) “One of the things that seems to be a requirement for rationality is a metacognitive ability, ability to step back and reflect, and know, become aware of your cognition so that you can redirect it. In fact, that seems to be an essential feature. If you don't have that, if your attention and intelligence couldn't ever do this reflective thing, then it's hard to know how you could ever be rational in the, in the way we seem to indicate like noticing bias or noticing fallacy or noticing misdirection.” — John Vervaeke (39:40)
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1:25:38