Madang

Welcome to Madang.
Madang is the outdoor living room of the world. Here, we invite you to sit and tune into unreserved, remarkable conversations with renowned authors, leaders, public figures, and scholars on religion, culture, and everything in between.
This is the 59th featuring Dr. James F. McGrath. He is the Clarence L. Goodwin Chair of New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University in Indianapolis. His blog, Religion Prof, can be found on the Patheos network. His books include The A to Z of the New Testament, Christmaker: A Life of John the Baptist, Theology and Science Fiction, and What Jesus Learned from Women. His newest book is Beyond Deconstruction: Building a More Expansive Faith.
On this episode of the Madang Podcast hosted by Baptist News Global, McGrath and I discuss his new book, Beyond Deconstruction: Building a More Expansive Faith. We discuss faith, deconstruction, God, Job, suffering, community, and so much more.
Listen to Madang Podcast on Spotify, Apple, Facebook Reels, or wherever podcasts are streamed.
I am grateful to the many sponsors of this Madang Podcast episode.
1. Eerdmans
Madang podcast hosted by the Baptist News Global is grateful to Eerdmans for sponsoring this episode. Please order your copy of Beyond Deconstruction, James F. McGrath. It will take you on a journey of faith that will strengthen you and carry you forward. Check out all the important books from Eerdmans by visiting www.eerdmans.com
2. Upper Room
What would it look like to live with compassion at the center of your life—toward yourself, your neighbors… even those you might call enemies? In Compassion in Practice: The Way of Jesus, renowned teacher Frank Rogers introduces a path of radical compassion rooted in God’s expansive love for all people—a path that can soften hardened hearts and bring healing, even in the most difficult situations. Along with powerful real-life stories of restorative love in action, this book lays out a series of practices to help you cultivate compassion—for yourself and for others—and to respond to a hurting world with courage, wisdom, and grace. This newly revised edition includes specific practices for compassionate social activism, more interfaith conversation, and a "compassion compass" to help orient you as you travel the path of healing and restoration. Prepare to step heart-first into a challenging world, ready to engage in a new way that beats with the pulse of compassion. Save 20% on Compassion in Practice today—and receive 20% off when you use promo code MADANG at Store.UpperRoom.org/MADANG.

Welcome to Madang.
Madang is the outdoor living room of the world. Here, we invite you to sit and tune into unreserved, remarkable conversations with renowned authors, leaders, public figures, and scholars on religion, culture, and everything in between.
This is the 59th episode of Madang Podcast featuring Kelley Nikondeha. Kelly is a writer, speaker, liberation theologian, and community development practitioner. Together with her husband, Claude Nikondeha, they founded Communities of Hope (an NGO in Burundi), Kazoza Bank, and have an ongoing partnership with the United Nations Capital Development Fund around economic development. She is the author of Jubilee Economics.
On this episode of Madang Podcast, Nikondeha and I talk about her new book, Jubilee Economics, debt, lament, hope, Jubilee, and so much more.
I am so grateful to these wonderful sponsors of Madang Podcast hosted by Baptist News Global.
1. Orbis Books-Madang is grateful to Orbis Books for sponsoring this episode of Madang Podcast hosted by BNG. Please order your copy of Jubilee Economics from Orbis Books. Use the discount code “MAD” for 30% off.
Please visit www.orbisbooks.com to order and check out the other wonderful books from Orbis. They publish “A World of Books that Matter”.
2. Upper Room AS YOURSELF: The Sacred Work of Embodying Grace, By Caroline Vogel
What does it really mean to love your neighbor as yourself? For many of us, loving God and loving others feels natural. But loving ourselves? That’s the hard part. In her new book, As Yourself: The Sacred Work of Embodying Grace, spiritual director and therapist Caroline Vogel invites you into a different way of living—one rooted not in striving, but in receiving. Through honest storytelling, biblical insights, and gentle spiritual practices, Vogel helps you release perfectionism, quiet shame, and open yourself to the truth that God’s grace is already alive within you. What if you didn’t have to earn God’s love? What if you could simply receive it—and live from it? As Yourself is an invitation to slow down, reconnect with the Spirit, and discover what it means to live as God’s beloved—fully, freely, and just as you are. Available now - Save 20% on As Yourself at The Upper Room! Visit store.upperroom.org/Madang - and use promo code MADANG at checkout.

Welcome to Madang.
Madang is the outdoor living room of the world. Here, we invite you to sit and tune into unreserved, remarkable conversations with renowned authors, leaders, public figures, and scholars on religion, culture, and everything in between.
This is the 58th featuring Dr. Kristin T. Lee, who is a writer whose work has appeared in Christianity Today and Sojourners, and a primary care physician serving Boston’s Chinatown community. She writes about faith, culture, books, and solidarity at The Embers and is a contributing columnist to The Covenant Companion. Her passion is highlighting literature written by Asian and BIPOC authors via book reviews and reading groups on Instagram (@ktlee.writes). Lee’s work is informed by her experiences as an adoptive mother, host to refugees, and friend to those affected by incarceration. We Mend with Gold is her debut book.
On this episode of Madang Podcast, Lee and I talk about her new book, We Mend with Gold. We discuss brokenness, immigrant churches, God is not White, Theology of God’s Family, and so much more.
Listen to Madang Podcast on Spotify, Apple, Facebook Reels or wherever podcasts are streamed.
I am grateful to the many sponsors of this Madang Podcast episode.
1. Broadleaf Books-Madang is grateful to Broadleaf Books for sponsoring this episode of Madang Podcast. Please order your copy of We Mend with Gold by Kristen T. Lee. It is a wonderful book that will inform and inspire you. Check out all the important books from Broadleaf books by visiting www.broadleafbooks.com
2. Upper Room-AS YOURSELF: The Sacred Work of Embodying Grace, By Caroline Vogel
What does it really mean to love your neighbor as yourself? For many of us, loving God and loving others feels natural. But loving ourselves? That’s the hard part. In her new book, As Yourself: The Sacred Work of Embodying Grace, spiritual director and therapist Caroline Vogel invites you into a different way of living—one rooted not in striving, but in receiving. Through honest storytelling, biblical insights, and gentle spiritual practices, Vogel helps you release perfectionism, quiet shame, and open yourself to the truth that God’s grace is already alive within you. What if you didn’t have to earn God’s love? What if you could simply receive it—and live from it? As Yourself is an invitation to slow down, reconnect with the Spirit, and discover what it means to live as God’s beloved—fully, freely, and just as you are. Available now - Save 20% on As Yourself at The Upper Room! Visit store.upperroom.org/Madang - and use promo code MADANG at checkout.
3. Central Seminary-This episode is presented by Central Seminary – a historic, accredited, diverse, cross-cultural, and ecumenical seminary. Central Seminary equips students with the theological knowledge, spiritual insight, and practical skills needed to lead in an ever-changing world. Central offers numerous graduate degrees and certificates, including our Certificate in Peace and Justice Ministry, which is facilitated in live, online classrooms. The Certificate in Peace and Justice Ministry will prepare you to lead and serve through social change in areas ​such as racial injustice, economic injustice, the climate crisis, war and violence, and more. To learn more, visit www.CBTS.edu or search for Central Seminary Kansas City.
I am grateful to the many sponsors of this Madang Podcast episode.

Welcome to Madang.
Madang is the outdoor living room of the world. Here, we invite you to sit and tune into unreserved, remarkable conversations with renowned authors, leaders, public figures, and scholars on religion, culture, and everything in between.
This is the 57th episode featuring The Rev. Canon Stephanie Spellers, one of the Episcopal Church’s leading thinkers around 21st-century ministry and mission. The author of several books - including The Church Cracked Open, Radical Welcome and her latest, Church Tomorrow?: What the ‘Nones’ and ‘Dones’ Teach Us About the Future of Faith - she recently wrapped nearly a decade as canon to the Episcopal Church’s Presiding Bishop Michael Curry, with responsibility for guiding the entire denomination’s work on evangelism, racial justice, new ministry development and environmental stewardship. An honorary canon in the Diocese of New York, she currently serves as Canon in Residence at St. Bartholomew’s Episcopal Church.
On this episode of Madang Podcast hosted by Faith and Reason, Spellers and I talk about her book, Church Tomorrow? We discuss decline of the mainline church, nones and dones, post-Christian culture, White Christonationalism, and much more.
Listen to Madang Podcast on Spotify, Apple, Facebook Reels, or wherever podcasts are streamed.
I am grateful to the many sponsors of this Madang Podcast episode.
1)Are you longing for deeper rhythm, grounding community, and space to listen for God? The Academy for Spiritual Formation invites you to Academy #44, beginning October 2026 at Camp McDowell in Nauvoo, Alabama. For two years, you’ll journey alongside a diverse community of seekers—practicing prayer, silence, study, and embodied faith. Through trusted faculty, guided retreats, and spacious rhythms, The Academy offers a sacred place to rest, heal, and be renewed. Step into a sacred journey of renewal and transformation. Learn more and apply at Academy.UpperRoom.org/44.
2)Madang Podcast is sponsored by Church Publishing Incorporated (CPI). Church Publishing is a leading global, multi-market publisher of a wide variety of books and resources, serving millions of readers. Please read Church Tomorrow?: What the ‘Nones’ and ‘Dones’ Teach Us About the Future of Faith by the Rev. Canon Stephanie Spellers, where she presents hard truths about declining religious affiliation in America, paired with stories and wisdom from her interviews with dozens of young people who either grew up with no faith or gave up formal religion. Please visit www.churchpublishing.org for more great books.
3.This episode is presented by Central Seminary – a historic, accredited, diverse, cross-cultural, and ecumenical seminary. Central Seminary equips students with the theological knowledge, spiritual insight, and practical skills needed to lead in an ever-changing world. Central offers numerous graduate degrees and certificates, including our Certificate in Peace and Justice Ministry, which is facilitated in live, online classrooms. The Certificate in Peace and Justice Ministry will prepare you to lead and serve through social change in areas ​such as racial injustice, economic injustice, the climate crisis, war and violence, and more. To learn more, visit Central Seminary, Kansas City.
4.PANAAWTM Spring Gathering will be held on Monday, March 23, 2026, at 8pm ET on zoom. Any person who identifies as a woman or non-binary individual and as someone of Pacific Islander, Asian, or North American Asian is invited to join the community gathering and business meeting. The business meeting, which follows, is an important part of our annual rhythm, and this is the space where you participate actively as part of the community to shape the org. Please join! (Registration Link)

Welcome to Madang.
Madang is the outdoor living room of the world. Here, we invite you to sit and tune into unreserved, remarkable conversations with renowned authors, leaders, public figures, and scholars on religion, culture, and everything in between.
This is the 56th episode featuring Robert G. Callahan, II. Robert is an accomplished attorney and author, dedicated to fighting for justice in his practice at Callahan & King, PLLC in Waco, Texas. He earned a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science from Gonzaga University and a Juris Doctorate at Baylor University School of Law where he teaches a course entitled Integrating Faith and Legal Practice. In 2020, Robert was named Lawyer of the Year by the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyers’ Association. Robert’s book, FIRE IN THE WHOLE: Embracing Our Righteous Anger with White Christianity and Reclaiming Our Wholeness, tackles spiritual abuse via the church’s complicity with racism, patriarchy, and bigotry while encouraging survivors that their anger is justified and path to healing does exist.
On this episode of Madang Podcast hosted by Faith and Reason, Callahan and I talk about his book, Fire in the Whole: Embracing Our Righteous Anger with White Christianity and Reclaiming Our Wholeness. We discuss Black history, color-blind church, racism, whiteness, anger, reconciliation, and much more.
I am grateful to the many sponsors of this episode.
1)I want to tell you about a Lenten resource from The Upper Room that I think a lot of you will really appreciate. It’s called When Did We See You? A Lenten Exploration of Poverty & Wealth, and it takes on something many churches struggle to talk about honestly—money. Written by pastor and justice advocate Elizabeth Mae Magill, When Did We See You? is a thoughtful, deeply pastoral Lenten study that wrestles with poverty, wealth, and what it means to follow Jesus in an economically divided world. In a world of both abundance and inequality, When Did We See You? guides us through a crucial and timely conversation about our money, economic justice, and God’s call for a world with enough for all. Learn more at store/upperroom.org/Madang and save 20% on your copies today with promo code MADANG at checkout. This Lent, may we have eyes to truly see Christ in our neighbors and respond with love and action.
2)This episode is presented by Central Seminary – a historic, accredited, diverse, cross-cultural, and ecumenical seminary. Central Seminary equips students with the theological knowledge, spiritual insight, and practical skills needed to lead in an ever-changing world. Central offer numerous graduate degrees and certificates including our Certificate in Peace and Justice Ministry, which is facilitated in live, online classrooms. The Certificate in Peace and Justice Ministry will prepare you to lead and serve through social change in areas ​such as racial injustice, economic injustice, the climate crisis, war and violence, and more. To learn more, visit www.CBTS.edu or search for Central Seminary Kansas City.
3)I am grateful to WJK PRESS for sponsoring this episode. Fire in the Whole equips Black Christians to make empowered decisions about their faith—whether that means leaving toxic spaces, building new communities, or reclaiming a liberating faith. Discussion questions and a personal inventory help readers decide what’s next. Learn more at wjkbooks.com.
4) PANAAWTM has 2 wonderful upcoming events: a) Vocational Discernment Gathering (tentative late March/April) will create space for reflection, conversation, and communal wisdom around calling, leadership, and faithful imagination—especially for those navigating ministry, academia, and public life in complex times. b) PANAAWTM will be hosting an upcoming virtual annual business meeting, tentatively planned for March. This gathering is an opportunity for our community to come together, share key updates, and participate in the work of sustaining PANAAWTM’s mission and leadership.