Making Chips Podcast for Manufacturing Leaders

What happens when a machine shop does everything right operationally but still feels exposed when markets shift, customers pull back, or one industry cools overnight? In this episode of MakingChips, the conversation turns squarely toward one of the most uncomfortable and misunderstood areas of manufacturing leadership: proactive sales and diversification. We're joined by Gabe Draper, founder of Factur, and Alan Hartmann, CEO of Hartmann's Inc., a multi-generation Texas manufacturer. Gabe shares a raw and honest origin story that starts with growing up in a manufacturing family, fighting to save a struggling shop, riding the oil and gas rollercoaster, and ultimately losing nearly everything when the downturn hit. That experience became the catalyst for building Factur, a company designed to help shops avoid reactive, last-minute sales cycles by intentionally filling their pipeline. Alan brings the perspective of a well-run, highly capable shop that realized success alone wasn't protection. With major customers concentrated in just a few industries, Hartmann's needed diversification, not because business was slow, but because resilience matters. Through their partnership with Factur, Alan explains how proactive sales, clearer positioning, and market intelligence led to rapid customer growth, industry expansion, and the confidence to invest in new capabilities. We unpack the difference between scarcity and abundance mindsets, why most shops accidentally commoditize themselves, and how sales, operations, and finance must work together as equal legs of the stool. From aerospace and medical to space flight and Swiss machining, this episode offers a candid look at how manufacturers can stop waiting for the phone to ring and start taking control of their future. Segments (0:00) Holiday banter and introducing guests Gabe Draper and Alan Hartmann  (4:32) Grow your top and bottom-line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) (5:09) Gabe Draper's origin story and what led to founding Factur (10:53) The danger of customer and industry concentration (13:55) Alan Hartmann's multi-generation shop story and long-term customer relationships (18:22) Reactive vs proactive sales and why diversification matters (22:31) Breaking down Factur's full sales funnel (26:03) Why technical "hunters" outperform generalist sales roles (28:16) "What's Your Method": Aerospace Success with Zach from Methods (34:50) Check out the SMW Autoblok catalog for your workholding  (36:04) Choosing the right sales and marketing services with Factur (40:02) Scarcity vs abundance mindset in shop growth (42:58) Using sales insights to justify equipment investments (46:05) How one new customer quickly became a top account (48:37) Managing risk across aerospace, medical, and space markets (51:11) Filling your capacity with the right work first (55:30) Sales specialization as shops scale (56:22) How manufacturers can engage Factur for market intelligence (1:00:13) Talent challenges and Hire MFG Leaders Resources mentioned on this episode Grow your top and bottom-line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) Methods Machine Tools  Check out the SMW Autoblok catalog for your workholding  Get your free market intel report at https://facturmfg.com/chips/ Hire your next leader using our recruiting service—Hire MFG Leaders Connect With MakingChips www.MakingChips.com On Facebook On LinkedIn On Instagram On Twitter On YouTube

Some conversations feel scripted. This one… absolutely did not. Larry Robbins walked in ready to talk life, passion, family, culture, workholding, philosophy, and whatever else popped into his head — and somehow it all connected back to manufacturing. This episode of MakingChips is one of the most unhinged, hilarious, honest, and wisdom-packed conversations we've ever recorded. Larry has been in the industry for nearly 46 years, and he's collected enough stories, scars, and laughs for ten careers. From his father dragging him into the business ("long hair doesn't work here") to his famous explanation that SMW makes "magic hands," Larry blends humor and experience into lessons every shop owner needs to hear. His passion for the industry is unmatched — and his candor is even better. Throughout the episode, the crew dives into culture, leadership, lying (don't), modularity, flexibility, high-density workholding, predictable setups, financing equipment, and why you should stop crawling across a dollar to pick up a dime. Larry opens up about the future of manufacturing, warns against bad advice, and reminds everyone that machining touches every single thing in the world. If you're ready for an episode that's equal parts educational and unhinged in the best possible way, buckle up — Larry Robbins is in rare form. Segments (1:00) Larry's background, early failures, and the stories that shaped his approach to leadership (3:31) An investment in ProShop is an investment in your business (3:32) Culture, loving your work, and leadership lessons (5:07) Entering the family business, retirement humor, and long-term commitment (7:23) The reality of workplace culture, honesty, and handling difficult employees (10:02) Integrity, truth-telling, and early lessons on character (13:18) Appreciating machinists and the unseen parts of manufacturing (15:05) Workholding vs. cutting tools and why workholding matters more than people think (16:09) "Magic hands" — Larry's explanation of workholding for a 5-year-old (17:20) Workholding misconceptions and the cost of poor setups (19:00) Vendor trust, trying equipment, and choosing partnerships wisely (20:22) Setup reduction, rigidity vs. flexibility, and predictable processes (22:12) Cutting 12-hour setups and the value of internal vs. external setups (24:16) Why we love Phoenix Heat Treating for Outside Processing (25:24) Expensive machines + cheap vices = lost potential (27:26) Modular workholding, infinite adjustment, and the origins of the industry (29:18) When not to sell a customer — long-term trust over short-term gain (30:19) Why shops "don't know what they don't know" about proper workholding (31:58) Financing workholding and proving ROI to shop owners (33:09) Tooling certs and buying the solution, not just the machine (35:24) High-density workholding and maximizing machine real estate (37:12) Protecting customers from bad investments and the role of good vendors (38:01) The LEGO analogy and building reusable workholding systems (40:13) Trusting experts and using the right resources in decision-making (41:19) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) (41:57) Buzzwords like Industry 4.0 vs. solving real problems (43:49) Competing with global labor costs and running unattended (44:19) Extending the life of old machines with better processes (46:41) Universal truth: If you're not making chips, you're not making money  Resources mentioned on this episode Connect with Larry Robbins and SMW Autoblok An investment in ProShop is an investment in your business Why we love Phoenix Heat Treating for Outside Processing Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) Smart Money Moves: Equipment Financing Tips with Ty Willis Connect With MakingChips www.MakingChips.com On Facebook On LinkedIn On Instagram On Twitter On YouTube

In this special episode of MakingChips, we broadcast from the EBITDA Growth Systems Double Your Value Planning Event—a gathering designed to pull shop owners out of the day-to-day grind and force intentional thinking about long-term growth. This year's event was hosted at the Sandvik Coromant facility in Mebane, North Carolina, creating a perfect backdrop for conversations about planning, strategy, and culture. Paul is joined by three key voices who bring decades of hard-earned manufacturing wisdom: Jim Carr, a founding voice of MakingChips; Zach Overton, who is deep in the trenches of leading a multi-generation shop through transition and growth; and David Capkovitz, co-founder of EBITDA Growth Systems, whose strategic coaching framework is the backbone of this entire event. They pull back the curtain on why the event exists, how planning actually becomes actionable, and how shops can double their value in three years. Together, they dive into the realities every manufacturer faces—financial blind spots, operational challenges, cultural shifts, succession dilemmas, and the emotional weight of leadership. David's perspective as a coach blends seamlessly with Jim and Zach's lived experiences, creating a conversation that's equal parts strategic and deeply human. This episode highlights why stepping away from the shop floor is often the missing link for achieving the next level of growth. Whether you're planning for 2026, building resilience for a generational handoff, or simply trying to stop fighting fires, the insights shared here offer a clear direction forward. And yes—there's also a Cheerwine Old Fashioned or two. If you're ready to plan your next chapter with more clarity and confidence, this episode gives you the mindset and the roadmap to get started. Segments (0:00) Setting the scene: EGS happy hour, heaters, and Cheerwine Old Fashioneds (1:11) Paul and Jim revisit the origins of MakingChips and Jim's full-circle moment (2:35) What the Double Your Value Planning Event is & how it's grown under EGS (3:32) Introducing Zach Overton and his connections with Paul & Jim (4:36) Jim's memories and insights from advanced machining processes (6:38) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) (7:14) David explains why EGS created the event and its planning philosophy (10:23) The power of peer-to-peer conversations among manufacturers (11:54) Identifying obstacles to growth and building criticality assessments (13:15) Zach shares his takeaways from stepping out of day-to-day firefighting (15:26) Jim describes how EGS supports Carr Machine as a Fractional CFO (18:08) Lighter moments: drink taste-testing and event humor (19:53) Invest in your business by investing in ProShop ERP (21:27) Zach explains how David coaches Overton Industries operationally (24:15) How manufacturers can start planning intentionally for 2026 (28:08) Why shop owners need guidance, accountability, and encouragement (30:11) Culture as the foundation of growth: reflections on Mike Hirsh's talk (32:13) Jim's transformation story: shifting from a lifestyle business to scalable growth (36:21) Why you need to check out the SMW Autoblok catalog (37:31) Did older generations only want lifestyle businesses? (39:00) Zach on pushing back in automotive to protect margins (40:38) Navigating multi-owner family decisions and succession complexity (42:12) David reflects on the personal relationships EGS builds with clients Resources mentioned on this episode Connect with EBITA Growth Systems Connect with Jim Carr on LinkedIn Connect with David Capkovitz on LinkedIn Connect with Zach Overton on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Hirsh on LinkedIn Peter Doyle on Machine Shop MBA and Machine Shop Mastery MC070: Leadership, Action, and a British Accent – with Sean Holt Invest in your business by investing in ProShop ERP Why you need to check out the SMW Autoblok catalog Connect With MakingChips www.MakingChips.com On Facebook On LinkedIn On Instagram On Twitter On YouTube

In this episode of MakingChips, we sit down with Charlie Hushek, President of Phoenix Heat Treating, whose family has been in the heat-Treating world for over a century. Charlie is a fifth-generation heat Treatinger—but his leadership story is anything but inherited. When he stepped into the business in 2020, he wasn't handed stability. He was handed a crisis. Within a matter of months, Phoenix Heat Treating lost its NADCAP certification—twice—suffered major operational setbacks, faced COVID turmoil, and endured the tragic loss of their general manager. For a company where more than 70% of revenue is tied to regulated aerospace work, this wasn't a stumble. It was a free fall. And it forced Charlie into leadership far earlier—and far harder—than he expected. But instead of shrinking from the challenge, Charlie transformed it into a total rebuild. He redesigned their QMS from the ground up, implemented true systems thinking, rewrote cultural standards, and introduced transparent, performance-driven practices that aligned every employee around shared values. The result? A thriving business, a revitalized culture, and a blueprint for how to rebuild a manufacturing company under extreme pressure. In this raw and energizing conversation, Charlie shares how Phoenix Heat Treatinging went from chaos to clarity, how culture becomes a competitive advantage, and what it takes to lead a team through uncertainty, fear, and burnout—and come out stronger on the other side. If you're leading a shop through change, growth, or crisis, this episode is a masterclass. Segments (1:29) Charlie's fifth-generation family history and the Phoenix Heat Treating story (2:19) The beginnings of Wesley Steel Treating and early industrial growth (3:43) Check out SMW Autoblok's massive catalog of products (5:15) Heat Treating as a long-standing, often overlooked "shadow industry" (5:45) Phoenix Heat Treating's early years, the move to Arizona, and generational transitions (7:34) Charlie's introduction to the business, working second shift, and learning operations (8:53) Phoenix Heat Treating's modern operations: five shifts, fast turn times, and business units (10:40) The importance of NADCAP certification and the challenges that come with losing it (12:45) Climbing out of crisis, stabilizing the business, and confronting hard truths (18:55) Internal emotions, team reactions, turnover, and the "burn the boats" mentality (22:06) Rebuilding from 50 employees to 80 through culture, transparency, and momentum (23:30) How primes issued waivers and partnered with Phoenix during the crisis (25:17) Working with customers to maintain flow on critical aerospace and defense parts (27:42) What's Your Method? 30-taper machines (34:43) The honesty and transparency you'll experience working with Phoenix Heat Treating (35:55) Building culture from the ground up and defining core values (39:01) Using employee surveys to define core values: teamwork, positivity, detail, work ethic (41:38) Embedding culture in hiring, onboarding, and daily expectations (45:30) Profit sharing, pay transparency, and rewarding performance (49:20) Applying the playbook to the newly purchased machine shop (52:53) Incentivizing change and gaining buy-in through aligned rewards (54:45) The importance of defining winning, alignment, and standards (58:23) Why we created Hire MFG Leaders (and why you should use it) (58:50) Charlie's "playbook," open-book management, and The Great Game of Business Resources mentioned on this episode The honesty and transparency you'll experience working with Phoenix Heat Treating Connect with Charlie Hushek on LinkedIn Where to check out SMW Autoblok's massive catalog of products Why we created Hire MFG Leaders (and why you should use it) The Great Game of Business Connect With MakingChips www.MakingChips.com On Facebook On LinkedIn On Instagram On Twitter On YouTube

Top Shops 2025 brought together the most innovative, forward-thinking leaders in manufacturing—and this year's gathering at the NASCAR Hall of Fame felt like stepping directly into the winners' circle. Surrounded by the energy of hundreds of top-tier manufacturers, we sat down with the four shops recognized as the crème de la crème in their categories: Technology, Shopfloor Technology, Business Strategy, and Human Resources. Together, these honorees represent what's possible when ambition meets execution. In this special episode of MakingChips, recorded live in Charlotte, we talk with each winner about the decisions, investments, philosophies, and people that drove their rise to the top. From multimachine pallet-tech automation and Swiss machining efficiency to bold equipment investments and workforce strategies that transform culture, each story reveals a different path to excellence. Yet all four shops share a mindset of curiosity, courage, and relentless improvement. Throughout these conversations, we explore how technology becomes a competitive advantage, how small teams can deliver massive output, why unconventional business strategies can pay off, and how employee-first leadership becomes the backbone of success. Every guest brings candor, humor, and real-world wisdom—showing that you don't become a Top Shop by accident. Whether you're just starting your Top Shops journey or are already benchmarking in the top percentile, you'll walk away from this episode energized, inspired, and equipped with ideas you can put into practice immediately. Because these shops aren't just winning awards—they're redefining what modern manufacturing looks like. Segments (0:48) Opening from the NASCAR Hall of Fame at Top Shops 2025 (1:28) What are the Top Shops award categories and how does the survey work? (2:19) Why investing in ProShop is an investment in your business (3:56) A conversation with Joey Jones on Aerotech Machining and their award (9:17) The details of Aerotech Machining's automation journey  (12:47) Introducing Jayme Rahz of Midway Swiss Turn and their shop floor practices award (15:03) When robotics become accessible and feasible for Midway Swiss Turn (18:59) How do you train new employees with no Swiss experience? (19:50) Staying niche instead of chasing high-volume work (22:02) Grow your top and bottom-line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) (22:40) Mike Bauer with Marathon Precision on winning the Business Strategy award  (25:13) Why Mike buys machines before having the work (his spiderweb method) (30:27) Machine count, headcount, and shop expansion history (31:40) Consolidating two businesses and retraining all employees (32:40) Allison Giddens joins the conversation and introduces Win-Tech (34:44) Implementing a 4×10 schedule and early challenges (37:23) Using the Top Shops survey for benchmarking and improvement (40:17) Building culture and partnering with local trade schools (41:22) Challenges in technical education and the need for better instructors (45:53) Why you should listen to the Lights Out podcast Resources mentioned on this episode Why investing in ProShop is an investment in your business Connect with Joey Jones with Aerotech Machining (Technology award) Introducing Jayme Rahz of Midway Swiss Turn and their shop floor practices award Grow your top and bottom-line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) Michael Bauer with Marathon Precision on winning the Business Strategy award  Allison Giddens joins the conversation and introduces Win-Tech Complete the 2026 Top Shops Survey and see us at Top Shops 2026! Connect With MakingChips www.MakingChips.com On Facebook On LinkedIn On Instagram On Twitter On YouTube