Decoder with Nilay Patel

Today, I’m talking with Benn Jordan, musician, YouTuber, researcher, and investigative journalist. In the last couple of years, Benn has become a high-profile face in the creator and media spaces for his work investigating Flock Safety, the maker of automatic license plate readers and the software that powers them.

Benn recently testified in front of Congress at a hearing dedicated to Flock and other ALPR systems. So of course I wanted to dig into all of that with Benn, not just because of his role as a Flock critic, but because he’s also become in some ways the face of a new front in the broader debate about surveillance and privacy.

Links:

Benn Jordan testifies in front of Senate | Benn Jordan (YouTube)

Flock values their privacy. Oh well | Benn Jordan (YouTube)

We Hacked Flock Safety Cameras in under 30 Seconds | Benn Jordan (YouTube)

Lawmakers introduce multiple laws to curb Flock | 404 Media

The fight over Flock and other ALPRs | The Verge

Sanders, AOC, Merkley propose bill to ban Flock cameras | Politico

Cities terminate Flock contracts at record pace in August | Ars Technica

Flock to cut several hundred jobs amid backlash | Reuters

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Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everybody, it’s Nilay. We’re off today for the holiday, and we’ll be back this Thursday with new episodes. In the meantime, we wanted to revisit a conversation from earlier this year I had with investigative journalist and New Yorker contributor Ronan Farrow, all about the in-depth feature on OpenAI CEO Sam Altman he co-authored with Andrew Marantz.

The conversation holds up remarkably well, and I think it tells us a lot about the current moment, as calls for meaningful federal AI oversight have ground to a halt yet again. Enjoy.

Links:

Sam Altman May Control Our Future—Can He Be Trusted? | The New Yorker

Ronan Farrow on Sam Altman’s ‘unconstrained’ relationship with the truth | Decoder

Does AI need an antitrust exemption so it doesn’t kill everyone? | Decoder

Inside the suddenly explosive world of AI safety | The Verge

Here’s what AI leaders are saying about Trump’s new safety plan | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. The show is edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Acquiring Warner Bros. never goes well for anyone. AOL failed, AT&T failed, and Discovery failed — although it did succeed in flipping the assets to David Ellison’s Skydance.

So I’m talking to Peter Kafka, Business Insider chief correspondent and host of Channels, to see if Skydance has a chance at succeeding where nobody else has yet. Spoiler alert: Peter doesn’t think Skydance has a clear business plan, either. But he’s got some really good guesses about what might come next.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links:

CNN boss remains as Paramount, WBD merge into Skydance | The Verge

Skydance CEOs: Layoffs will be coming | Variety

Ynon Kriez, the new Skydance co-CEO | Business Insider

Skydance sets leadership across games, experiences | Variety

Paramount settles lawsuit blocking $110B WBD merger | The Verge

Larry Ellison’s big dumb gift to his large adult son | The Verge

Weiss’ ratings wipeout | Status

Decoder is a Signal Awards finalist in the Business category! You can vote to help us win her.

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My guest today is Hayden Field, The Verge’s senior AI reporter, and we're discussing the new wave of consumer friendly AI agents. AI enthusiasts have been using agents for a minute now, but the launch of Meta’s Muse, OpenAI’s Dots, and XAI’s Grok Bot has brought easy to use agents to millions.

Muse, notably, is free, while Dots is not, and you’ll hear Hayden and me get into why Meta, which still doesn't have a frontier model of its own, might have a meaningful edge here because it's much better at making and distributing consumer products. And wrapped up in this heated agent race are a lot of really big ideas — about AI capability, privacy, and trust.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links:

OpenAI’s new agent is a shot at Meta — but can it compete with free? | The Verge

The AI Tamagotchis are coming | The Verge

Muse escapes containment | 404 Media

Meta’s Muse AI sent a YouTuber’s address to a stranger | The Verge

It’s sinister that Meta’s Muse AI mascot is so cute | The Verge

Muse sure looks a lot like OpenClaw | The Verge

Decoder is a Signal Awards finalist in the Business category! You can vote to help us win here.

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

California Sen. Adam Schiff sits on a bunch of the committees that do tech and AI oversight, so I really wanted to ask him about how we might regulate anything related to the tech industry at this moment in time.

He started our conversation by talking about the self-dealing and corruption present all through our politics now — right against the backdrop of President Trump gathering AI CEOs to the White House to pinky-swear they'll try to keep AI safe.

Read the ⁠full interview transcript on The Verge.⁠

Links:

How tech will self-police AI safety under Trump deal | The Verge

Supreme Court ruling kneecaps federal regulators | The Verge

Does AI need an antitrust exemption so it doesn’t kill everyone? | Decoder

Flock, Axon dodge Senate hearing | CNBC

Trump admin illegally blacklisted Anthropic, court rules | The Verge

Decoder is a Signal Awards finalist in the Business category! You can vote to help us win here.

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Eileen Felix. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices