Run the Numbers

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ Gustafson talks with Rivian CFO Claire McDonough about financing one of the most capital-intensive businesses in the world. They cover long-term investment decisions, capacity planning, cash management as production scales, lessons from Rivian’s nearly $14B IPO, the risks of over- and under-building, and why federal EV tax credits matter more than most people think.
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SPONSORS:
Tabs is an AI-native revenue platform that unifies billing, collections, and revenue recognition for companies running usage-based or complex contracts. By bringing together ERP, CRM, and real product usage data into a single system of record, Tabs eliminates manual reconciliations and speeds up close and cash collection. Companies like Cortex, Statsig, and Cursor trust Tabs to scale revenue efficiently. Learn more at https://www.tabs.com/run
Abacum is a modern FP&A platform built by former CFOs to replace slow, consultant-heavy planning tools. With self-service integrations and AI-powered workflows for forecasting, variance analysis, and scenario modeling, Abacum helps finance teams scale without becoming software admins. Trusted by teams at Strava, Replit, and JG Wentworth—learn more at https://www.abacum.ai
Brex is an intelligent finance platform that combines corporate cards, built-in expense management, and AI agents to eliminate manual finance work. By automating expense reviews and reconciliations, Brex gives CFOs more time for the high-impact work that drives growth. Join 35,000+ companies like Anthropic, Coinbase, and DoorDash at https://www.brex.com/metrics
Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com
RightRev is an automated revenue recognition platform built for modern pricing models like usage-based pricing, bundles, and mid-cycle upgrades. RightRev lets companies scale monetization without slowing down close or compliance. For RevRec that keeps growth moving, visit https://www.rightrev.com
Rillet is an AI-native ERP built for modern finance teams that want to close faster without fighting legacy systems. Designed to support complex revenue recognition, multi-entity operations, and real-time reporting, Rillet helps teams achieve a true zero-day close—with some customers closing in hours, not days. If you’re scaling on an ERP that wasn’t built in the 90s, book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/cj
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LINKS: 
Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-rauh-mcdonough-5291b946/
Rivian: https://rivian.com/
CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/
Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com
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RELATED EPISODES:
Why Revenue Recognition Is the Next AI Battleground | Dan Miller of RightRev
https://youtu.be/TxhTtwmOass
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Craziest Expense Story at Rivian
00:01:22 Intro to Claire McDonough
00:03:09 Capital Intensity and Vertical Integration at Rivian
00:06:44 Raising $14B: How Rivian Planned Its IPO Capital
00:10:22 Capacity Planning and Scaling R2 Production
00:12:13 Sponsors — Tabs, Abacum, Brex
00:15:34 Sweating Existing Capacity vs Overbuilding
00:18:22 Winning EV Adoption from ICE Buyers
00:22:27 How Federal EV Tax Credits Shape EV Pricing
00:26:03 Sponsors — Metronome, RightRev, Rillet
00:29:27 R2 as a Driver of Long-Term Profitability
00:33:14 Supply Chain as the Critical Path to Launch
00:36:53 Product Roadmap as the Anchor for Capital and Headcount
00:39:40 Peloton and Flipkart Lessons from Banking
00:43:42 Biggest Career Mistake
00:44:50 Advice to Younger Self
00:47:19 Rivian’s Finance Software Stack

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ Gustafson sits down with Dan Miller, CFO at RightRev. They unpack why leasing is underused in software, how RevTech emerged, and why revenue recognition may be the next AI battleground. Dan also shares how he evaluates durable growth vs. hypergrowth.
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SPONSORS:
Rillet is an AI-native ERP built for modern finance teams that want to close faster without fighting legacy systems. Designed to support complex revenue recognition, multi-entity operations, and real-time reporting, Rillet helps teams achieve a true zero-day close—with some customers closing in hours, not days. If you’re scaling on an ERP that wasn’t built in the 90s, book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/cj
Tabs is an AI-native revenue platform that unifies billing, collections, and revenue recognition for companies running usage-based or complex contracts. By bringing together ERP, CRM, and real product usage data into a single system of record, Tabs eliminates manual reconciliations and speeds up close and cash collection. Companies like Cortex, Statsig, and Cursor trust Tabs to scale revenue efficiently. Learn more at https://www.tabs.com/run
Abacum is a modern FP&A platform built by former CFOs to replace slow, consultant-heavy planning tools. With self-service integrations and AI-powered workflows for forecasting, variance analysis, and scenario modeling, Abacum helps finance teams scale without becoming software admins. Trusted by teams at Strava, Replit, and JG Wentworth—learn more at https://www.abacum.ai
Brex is an intelligent finance platform that combines corporate cards, built-in expense management, and AI agents to eliminate manual finance work. By automating expense reviews and reconciliations, Brex gives CFOs more time for the high-impact work that drives growth. Join 35,000+ companies like Anthropic, Coinbase, and DoorDash at https://www.brex.com/metrics
Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com
RightRev is an automated revenue recognition platform built for modern pricing models like usage-based pricing, bundles, and mid-cycle upgrades. RightRev lets companies scale monetization without slowing down close or compliance. For RevRec that keeps growth moving, visit https://www.rightrev.com
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LINKS: 
Dan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danmillercpa/
RightRev: https://www.rightrev.com/
CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/
Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Preview and Intro
00:02:41 Why Operating Experience Matters for CFOs
00:04:08 Defining Durable Growth
00:06:06 Snowflake and Consumption Revenue Complexity
00:10:17 Forecasting in Consumption Models
00:11:29 AI’s Role in Revenue Forecasting
00:12:14 Sponsors — Rillet | Tabs | Abacus AI
00:15:39 Comping Sales in Usage-Based Models
00:18:15 Leasing as a Software Monetization Tool
00:20:47 The CFO’s Role in Sales and GTM
00:22:29 How CFOs Help Close Deals
00:24:14 Rev Tech vs RevOps
00:26:20 Sponsors — Brex | Metronome | RightRev
00:29:40 Where AI Actually Helps Rev Rec
00:31:55 Deterministic vs Probabilistic AI
00:33:05 Why Enterprises Hesitate on AI Agents
00:34:18 Startups vs Incumbents in the AI Race
00:35:13 FOMO, Overfunding, and Market Distortions
00:38:13 CFO Playbooks Without Hypergrowth
00:39:38 Finding PMF as a CFO
00:41:15 Career Advice: Growth vs Shiny Objects
00:42:00 Building the CEO–CFO Relationship
00:42:49 Learning Beyond the Back Office
00:43:22 Lightning Round
00:44:28 Advice to My Younger Self
00:45:09 Finance Tech Stack
00:46:36 Credits

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ sits down with Brett Queener, Managing Director at Bonfire Ventures, to trace the origins of ARR and examine how new revenue models are reshaping B2B software. Drawing on Brett’s time at Salesforce and SmartRecruiters, they explore the shift from annual contracts to outcome-based pricing, what it means for forecasting and gtm strategy, and where the next major inflection points in SaaS are likely to emerge.
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SPONSORS:
RightRev is an automated revenue recognition platform built for modern pricing models like usage-based pricing, bundles, and mid-cycle upgrades. RightRev lets companies scale monetization without slowing down close or compliance. For RevRec that keeps growth moving, visit https://www.rightrev.com
Rillet is an AI-native ERP built for modern finance teams that want to close faster without fighting legacy systems. Designed to support complex revenue recognition, multi-entity operations, and real-time reporting, Rillet helps teams achieve a true zero-day close—with some customers closing in hours, not days. If you’re scaling on an ERP that wasn’t built in the 90s, book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/cj
Tabs is an AI-native revenue platform that unifies billing, collections, and revenue recognition for companies running usage-based or complex contracts. By bringing together ERP, CRM, and real product usage data into a single system of record, Tabs eliminates manual reconciliations and speeds up close and cash collection. Companies like Cortex, Statsig, and Cursor trust Tabs to scale revenue efficiently. Learn more at https://www.tabs.com/run
Abacum is a modern FP&A platform built by former CFOs to replace slow, consultant-heavy planning tools. With self-service integrations and AI-powered workflows for forecasting, variance analysis, and scenario modeling, Abacum helps finance teams scale without becoming software admins. Trusted by teams at Strava, Replit, and JG Wentworth—learn more at https://www.abacum.ai
Brex is an intelligent finance platform that combines corporate cards, built-in expense management, and AI agents to eliminate manual finance work. By automating expense reviews and reconciliations, Brex gives CFOs more time for the high-impact work that drives growth. Join 35,000+ companies like Anthropic, Coinbase, and DoorDash at https://www.brex.com/metrics
Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com
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LINKS: 
Brett on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brettqueener/
Brett’s Substack: https://queener.substack.com/
CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/
Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com
The Staffing Ratios Salesforce Used, with Brett Queener of Bonfire VC
https://youtu.be/lJVgstAXjJs
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:02:54 Welcome Brett & episode setup
00:03:51 On-prem software to SaaS
00:05:54 Salesforce & recurring revenue
00:07:15 On-prem costs & partner bloat
00:09:58 Contracts, control & comp shifts
00:14:15 Lock-in, renewals & SaaS drift
00:16:20 Sponsors — RightRev | Rillet | Tabs
00:19:48 From buying to hiring software
00:21:59 Agents change pricing & planning
00:25:59 Forecasting without ARR
00:28:03 Talent models break
00:29:45 Sponsors — Abacum | Brex | Metronome
00:33:01 Rethinking sales & comp
00:36:47 Selling by doing the job
00:40:50 The future role of sales
00:46:10 Zombie SaaS & category collapse
00:51:07 Context as the moat
00:56:07 Where AI hits next
00:58:44 Vertical AI & hidden TAMs
01:02:12 $1B startups vs mega rounds
01:05:48 Dilution, fund math & pressure
01:08:03 Choosing your founder path

In this special CFO Explains episode of Run the Numbers, CJ Gustafson sits down with executive producer Ben Hillman to unpack the real history of EBITDA. From John Malone and cable TV to private equity, SaaS, and today’s AI boom, CJ explains how a metric invented out of desperation became the default language of valuation—and how adjusted EBITDA can both clarify and distort the truth about a business.
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SPONSORS:
Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com
RightRev is an automated revenue recognition platform built for modern pricing models like usage-based pricing, bundles, and mid-cycle upgrades. RightRev lets companies scale monetization without slowing down close or compliance. For RevRec that keeps growth moving, visit https://www.rightrev.com
Rillet is an AI-native ERP built for modern finance teams that want to close faster without fighting legacy systems. Designed to support complex revenue recognition, multi-entity operations, and real-time reporting, Rillet helps teams achieve a true zero-day close—with some customers closing in hours, not days. If you’re scaling on an ERP that wasn’t built in the 90s, book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/cj
Tabs is an AI-native revenue platform that unifies billing, collections, and revenue recognition for companies running usage-based or complex contracts. By bringing together ERP, CRM, and real product usage data into a single system of record, Tabs eliminates manual reconciliations and speeds up close and cash collection. Companies like Cortex, Statsig, and Cursor trust Tabs to scale revenue efficiently. Learn more at https://www.tabs.com/run
Abacum is a modern FP&A platform built by former CFOs to replace slow, consultant-heavy planning tools. With self-service integrations and AI-powered workflows for forecasting, variance analysis, and scenario modeling, Abacum helps finance teams scale without becoming software admins. Trusted by teams at Strava, Replit, and JG Wentworth—learn more at https://www.abacum.ai
Brex is an intelligent finance platform that combines corporate cards, built-in expense management, and AI agents to eliminate manual finance work. By automating expense reviews and reconciliations, Brex gives CFOs more time for the high-impact work that drives growth. Join 35,000+ companies like Anthropic, Coinbase, and DoorDash at https://www.brex.com/metrics
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LINKS: 
CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/
Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com
Slacker Stuff: https://www.slackerstuff.com/
Ben on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/slackerstuff/
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RELATED EPISODES:
How Much Revenue Do You Need to IPO in 2025?
https://youtu.be/7ajWVCNVDmI
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:17 The Origins of EBITDA
00:06:48 Sponsors — Metronome | RightRev | Rillet
00:10:12 The Mechanics of EBITDA
00:13:46 Impact on Other Industries
00:15:38 The Many Faces of EBITDA
00:19:09 Sponsors  — Tabs | Abacum | Brex00:22:30 EBITDA’s AI Encore
00:24:56 Wrap Up
00:28:19 Credits
#RunTheNumbersPodcast #CFOExplains #EBITDA #FinancePodcast #BusinessMetrics

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ sits down with Intercom CFO Dan Griggs to discuss pricing and forecasting in the AI era. Dan shares the “it’s not zero” rule, the logic behind Fin’s $0.99 pricing, and how to bet on AI without blowing up the core business.
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SPONSORS:
Brex is an intelligent finance platform that combines corporate cards, built-in expense management, and AI agents to eliminate manual finance work. By automating expense reviews and reconciliations, Brex gives CFOs more time for the high-impact work that drives growth. Join 35,000+ companies like Anthropic, Coinbase, and DoorDash at https://www.brex.com/metrics
Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com
RightRev is an automated revenue recognition platform built for modern pricing models like usage-based pricing, bundles, and mid-cycle upgrades. RightRev lets companies scale monetization without slowing down close or compliance. For RevRec that keeps growth moving, visit https://www.rightrev.com
Rillet is an AI-native ERP built for modern finance teams that want to close faster without fighting legacy systems. Designed to support complex revenue recognition, multi-entity operations, and real-time reporting, Rillet helps teams achieve a true zero-day close—with some customers closing in hours, not days. If you’re scaling on an ERP that wasn’t built in the 90s, book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/cj
Tabs is an AI-native revenue platform that unifies billing, collections, and revenue recognition for companies running usage-based or complex contracts. By bringing together ERP, CRM, and real product usage data into a single system of record, Tabs eliminates manual reconciliations and speeds up close and cash collection. Companies like Cortex, Statsig, and Cursor trust Tabs to scale revenue efficiently. Learn more at https://www.tabs.com/run
Abacum is a modern FP&A platform built by former CFOs to replace slow, consultant-heavy planning tools. With self-service integrations and AI-powered workflows for forecasting, variance analysis, and scenario modeling, Abacum helps finance teams scale without becoming software admins. Trusted by teams at Strava, Replit, and JG Wentworth—learn more at https://www.abacum.ai
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LINKS: 
Dan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-griggs-0970181/
Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/
CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/
Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com
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RELATED EPISODES:
Inside Rocket Companies: M&A, Metrics, and Mortgage Moats | Brian Brown
https://youtu.be/ttedn4AULt8
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Cold Open
00:01:03 Dan Griggs and Intercom’s AI Pivot
00:02:45 Ice Cream to SaaS
00:04:19 Learning the Business
00:06:26 Operational Reality and Forecasts
00:08:00 “It’s Not Zero” Forecasting
00:10:09 Scenario Planning and Ambiguity
00:11:23 Sponsors — Brex | Metronome | RightRev
00:14:43 Mental Models for Metrics
00:16:15 Mental Math for Forecasts
00:17:28 Core CFO Ratios
00:19:13 Intercom’s Burn-the-Boats Moment
00:20:53 AI as an Existential Bet
00:22:21 SaaS Categories AI Can Replace
00:23:04 Why Finance Lags on AI
00:23:39 Sponsors — Rillet | Tabs | Abacum
00:27:05 Why Fin Uses Outcome Pricing
00:28:59 The $0.99 Resolution Tradeoff
00:30:46 Why Support Work Varies
00:32:01 AI Resolution Unit Economics
00:33:08 Model Choice as Costs Fall
00:35:19 Domain-Specific vs Generic LLMs
00:36:08 Selling Against the Core
00:38:50 Founder vs Professional CEOs
00:41:47 Hiring Mistakes and Instincts
00:44:28 Intercom’s Finance Stack
00:45:49 Craziest Expense Request