Run the Numbers

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ sits down with Brett Queener, Managing Director at Bonfire Ventures, to trace the origins of ARR and examine how new revenue models are reshaping B2B software. Drawing on Brett’s time at Salesforce and SmartRecruiters, they explore the shift from annual contracts to outcome-based pricing, what it means for forecasting and gtm strategy, and where the next major inflection points in SaaS are likely to emerge.
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SPONSORS:
RightRev is an automated revenue recognition platform built for modern pricing models like usage-based pricing, bundles, and mid-cycle upgrades. RightRev lets companies scale monetization without slowing down close or compliance. For RevRec that keeps growth moving, visit https://www.rightrev.com
Rillet is an AI-native ERP built for modern finance teams that want to close faster without fighting legacy systems. Designed to support complex revenue recognition, multi-entity operations, and real-time reporting, Rillet helps teams achieve a true zero-day close—with some customers closing in hours, not days. If you’re scaling on an ERP that wasn’t built in the 90s, book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/cj
Tabs is an AI-native revenue platform that unifies billing, collections, and revenue recognition for companies running usage-based or complex contracts. By bringing together ERP, CRM, and real product usage data into a single system of record, Tabs eliminates manual reconciliations and speeds up close and cash collection. Companies like Cortex, Statsig, and Cursor trust Tabs to scale revenue efficiently. Learn more at https://www.tabs.com/run
Abacum is a modern FP&A platform built by former CFOs to replace slow, consultant-heavy planning tools. With self-service integrations and AI-powered workflows for forecasting, variance analysis, and scenario modeling, Abacum helps finance teams scale without becoming software admins. Trusted by teams at Strava, Replit, and JG Wentworth—learn more at https://www.abacum.ai
Brex is an intelligent finance platform that combines corporate cards, built-in expense management, and AI agents to eliminate manual finance work. By automating expense reviews and reconciliations, Brex gives CFOs more time for the high-impact work that drives growth. Join 35,000+ companies like Anthropic, Coinbase, and DoorDash at https://www.brex.com/metrics
Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com
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LINKS: 
Brett on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brettqueener/
Brett’s Substack: https://queener.substack.com/
CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/
Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com
The Staffing Ratios Salesforce Used, with Brett Queener of Bonfire VC
https://youtu.be/lJVgstAXjJs
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:02:54 Welcome Brett & episode setup
00:03:51 On-prem software to SaaS
00:05:54 Salesforce & recurring revenue
00:07:15 On-prem costs & partner bloat
00:09:58 Contracts, control & comp shifts
00:14:15 Lock-in, renewals & SaaS drift
00:16:20 Sponsors — RightRev | Rillet | Tabs
00:19:48 From buying to hiring software
00:21:59 Agents change pricing & planning
00:25:59 Forecasting without ARR
00:28:03 Talent models break
00:29:45 Sponsors — Abacum | Brex | Metronome
00:33:01 Rethinking sales & comp
00:36:47 Selling by doing the job
00:40:50 The future role of sales
00:46:10 Zombie SaaS & category collapse
00:51:07 Context as the moat
00:56:07 Where AI hits next
00:58:44 Vertical AI & hidden TAMs
01:02:12 $1B startups vs mega rounds
01:05:48 Dilution, fund math & pressure
01:08:03 Choosing your founder path

In this special CFO Explains episode of Run the Numbers, CJ Gustafson sits down with executive producer Ben Hillman to unpack the real history of EBITDA. From John Malone and cable TV to private equity, SaaS, and today’s AI boom, CJ explains how a metric invented out of desperation became the default language of valuation—and how adjusted EBITDA can both clarify and distort the truth about a business.
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SPONSORS:
Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com
RightRev is an automated revenue recognition platform built for modern pricing models like usage-based pricing, bundles, and mid-cycle upgrades. RightRev lets companies scale monetization without slowing down close or compliance. For RevRec that keeps growth moving, visit https://www.rightrev.com
Rillet is an AI-native ERP built for modern finance teams that want to close faster without fighting legacy systems. Designed to support complex revenue recognition, multi-entity operations, and real-time reporting, Rillet helps teams achieve a true zero-day close—with some customers closing in hours, not days. If you’re scaling on an ERP that wasn’t built in the 90s, book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/cj
Tabs is an AI-native revenue platform that unifies billing, collections, and revenue recognition for companies running usage-based or complex contracts. By bringing together ERP, CRM, and real product usage data into a single system of record, Tabs eliminates manual reconciliations and speeds up close and cash collection. Companies like Cortex, Statsig, and Cursor trust Tabs to scale revenue efficiently. Learn more at https://www.tabs.com/run
Abacum is a modern FP&A platform built by former CFOs to replace slow, consultant-heavy planning tools. With self-service integrations and AI-powered workflows for forecasting, variance analysis, and scenario modeling, Abacum helps finance teams scale without becoming software admins. Trusted by teams at Strava, Replit, and JG Wentworth—learn more at https://www.abacum.ai
Brex is an intelligent finance platform that combines corporate cards, built-in expense management, and AI agents to eliminate manual finance work. By automating expense reviews and reconciliations, Brex gives CFOs more time for the high-impact work that drives growth. Join 35,000+ companies like Anthropic, Coinbase, and DoorDash at https://www.brex.com/metrics
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LINKS: 
CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/
Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com
Slacker Stuff: https://www.slackerstuff.com/
Ben on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/slackerstuff/
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RELATED EPISODES:
How Much Revenue Do You Need to IPO in 2025?
https://youtu.be/7ajWVCNVDmI
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:17 The Origins of EBITDA
00:06:48 Sponsors — Metronome | RightRev | Rillet
00:10:12 The Mechanics of EBITDA
00:13:46 Impact on Other Industries
00:15:38 The Many Faces of EBITDA
00:19:09 Sponsors  — Tabs | Abacum | Brex00:22:30 EBITDA’s AI Encore
00:24:56 Wrap Up
00:28:19 Credits
#RunTheNumbersPodcast #CFOExplains #EBITDA #FinancePodcast #BusinessMetrics

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ sits down with Intercom CFO Dan Griggs to discuss pricing and forecasting in the AI era. Dan shares the “it’s not zero” rule, the logic behind Fin’s $0.99 pricing, and how to bet on AI without blowing up the core business.
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SPONSORS:
Brex is an intelligent finance platform that combines corporate cards, built-in expense management, and AI agents to eliminate manual finance work. By automating expense reviews and reconciliations, Brex gives CFOs more time for the high-impact work that drives growth. Join 35,000+ companies like Anthropic, Coinbase, and DoorDash at https://www.brex.com/metrics
Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com
RightRev is an automated revenue recognition platform built for modern pricing models like usage-based pricing, bundles, and mid-cycle upgrades. RightRev lets companies scale monetization without slowing down close or compliance. For RevRec that keeps growth moving, visit https://www.rightrev.com
Rillet is an AI-native ERP built for modern finance teams that want to close faster without fighting legacy systems. Designed to support complex revenue recognition, multi-entity operations, and real-time reporting, Rillet helps teams achieve a true zero-day close—with some customers closing in hours, not days. If you’re scaling on an ERP that wasn’t built in the 90s, book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/cj
Tabs is an AI-native revenue platform that unifies billing, collections, and revenue recognition for companies running usage-based or complex contracts. By bringing together ERP, CRM, and real product usage data into a single system of record, Tabs eliminates manual reconciliations and speeds up close and cash collection. Companies like Cortex, Statsig, and Cursor trust Tabs to scale revenue efficiently. Learn more at https://www.tabs.com/run
Abacum is a modern FP&A platform built by former CFOs to replace slow, consultant-heavy planning tools. With self-service integrations and AI-powered workflows for forecasting, variance analysis, and scenario modeling, Abacum helps finance teams scale without becoming software admins. Trusted by teams at Strava, Replit, and JG Wentworth—learn more at https://www.abacum.ai
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LINKS: 
Dan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-griggs-0970181/
Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/
CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/
Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com
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RELATED EPISODES:
Inside Rocket Companies: M&A, Metrics, and Mortgage Moats | Brian Brown
https://youtu.be/ttedn4AULt8
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Cold Open
00:01:03 Dan Griggs and Intercom’s AI Pivot
00:02:45 Ice Cream to SaaS
00:04:19 Learning the Business
00:06:26 Operational Reality and Forecasts
00:08:00 “It’s Not Zero” Forecasting
00:10:09 Scenario Planning and Ambiguity
00:11:23 Sponsors — Brex | Metronome | RightRev
00:14:43 Mental Models for Metrics
00:16:15 Mental Math for Forecasts
00:17:28 Core CFO Ratios
00:19:13 Intercom’s Burn-the-Boats Moment
00:20:53 AI as an Existential Bet
00:22:21 SaaS Categories AI Can Replace
00:23:04 Why Finance Lags on AI
00:23:39 Sponsors — Rillet | Tabs | Abacum
00:27:05 Why Fin Uses Outcome Pricing
00:28:59 The $0.99 Resolution Tradeoff
00:30:46 Why Support Work Varies
00:32:01 AI Resolution Unit Economics
00:33:08 Model Choice as Costs Fall
00:35:19 Domain-Specific vs Generic LLMs
00:36:08 Selling Against the Core
00:38:50 Founder vs Professional CEOs
00:41:47 Hiring Mistakes and Instincts
00:44:28 Intercom’s Finance Stack
00:45:49 Craziest Expense Request

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ sits down with Maria Izurieta, CFO of Huntress, to unpack what it really means to lead finance as a connective tissue across the organization. Drawing on experience across VC-backed, PE-owned, and public companies, Maria shares how she balances impact versus perfection, builds trust through small wins, and helps teams move from transactional finance to insight-driven decision making. They dig into data transparency, centralized BI, partnering with sales and marketing on revenue, and why the best CFOs unblock friction instead of becoming the “no” department — all while bringing a deeply people-first lens to scale.
—
SPONSORS:
Abacum is a modern FP&A platform built by former CFOs to replace slow, consultant-heavy planning tools. With self-service integrations and AI-powered workflows for forecasting, variance analysis, and scenario modeling, Abacum helps finance teams scale without becoming software admins. Trusted by teams at Strava, Replit, and JG Wentworth—learn more at https://www.abacum.ai
Brex is an intelligent finance platform that combines corporate cards, built-in expense management, and AI agents to eliminate manual finance work. By automating expense reviews and reconciliations, Brex gives CFOs more time for the high-impact work that drives growth. Join 35,000+ companies like Anthropic, Coinbase, and DoorDash at https://www.brex.com/metrics
Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com
RightRev is an automated revenue recognition platform built for modern pricing models like usage-based pricing, bundles, and mid-cycle upgrades. RightRev lets companies scale monetization without slowing down close or compliance. For RevRec that keeps growth moving, visit https://www.rightrev.com
Rillet is an AI-native ERP built for modern finance teams that want to close faster without fighting legacy systems. Designed to support complex revenue recognition, multi-entity operations, and real-time reporting, Rillet helps teams achieve a true zero-day close—with some customers closing in hours, not days. If you’re scaling on an ERP that wasn’t built in the 90s, book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/cj
Tabs is an AI-native revenue platform that unifies billing, collections, and revenue recognition for companies running usage-based or complex contracts. By bringing together ERP, CRM, and real product usage data into a single system of record, Tabs eliminates manual reconciliations and speeds up close and cash collection. Companies like Cortex, Statsig, and Cursor trust Tabs to scale revenue efficiently. Learn more at https://www.tabs.com/run
—
LINKS:
Maria on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-izurieta-909a3b/
Company: https://www.huntress.com/
CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/
Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com
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RELATED EPISODES:
How the Best CFOs Lead Without Being the CEO | Ken Stillwell
https://youtu.be/O4cx9NBqQso
—
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Preview and Intro
00:01:01 Maria’s Background
00:03:09 People-First Team Building
00:05:16 People, Process, Systems at Scale
00:07:13 Removing Friction Outside Finance
00:09:15 Data Transparency & Decision-Making
00:11:06 Sponsors — Abacum | Brex | Metronome
00:14:22 Forward-Deployed Data
00:16:21 Centralized Data vs. Silos
00:19:23 Finance as Data Steward
00:21:08 Cost-to-Price Feedback Loop
00:22:35 Curiosity Builds Credibility
00:23:43 Sponsors — RightRev | Rillet | Tabs
00:27:12 Trust First, Then Impact
00:30:27 Celebrating Small Wins
00:31:21 From Transactions to Insights
00:33:00 CFO at the Revenue Table
00:34:32 Educating the Org on Metrics
00:36:21 Customer-Level Margin Reality
00:37:13 Using Facts to Change Decisions
00:38:27 Ownership Mindset in Growth Companies
00:39:10 VC vs. PE vs. Public CFO Tradeoffs
00:41:02 Operating Inside Constraints
00:42:18 Finding Your Stage Fit
00:44:17 Building a Personal Advisor Network
00:46:43 Visibility and Women in Leadership
00:47:44 Work–Life Integration, Not Balance
00:48:45 Lightning Round: Biggest Mistake
00:50:10 Advice to Younger Self
00:51:36 Finance Tech Stack
00:52:01 Craziest Expense Story
00:52:44 Credits
#RunTheNumbersPodcast #CFOLeadership #ScalingCompanies #DataDrivenDecisions #ExecutiveLeadership


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ sits down with Ken Stillwell, CFO and COO of Pegasystems, to explore the realities of leading from the second seat. Ken shares hard-earned lessons from guiding Pega through the shift from term licenses to ARR and ACV, including how to rework sales compensation without losing trust or momentum. They discuss the limits of KPI obsession, the importance of directional clarity over false precision, and why private equity often drives sharper execution than public markets—and how to apply that discipline while still playing the long game.
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SPONSORS:
Tabs is an AI-native revenue platform that unifies billing, collections, and revenue recognition for companies running usage-based or complex contracts. By bringing together ERP, CRM, and real product usage data into a single system of record, Tabs eliminates manual reconciliations and speeds up close and cash collection. Companies like Cortex, Statsig, and Cursor trust Tabs to scale revenue efficiently. Learn more at https://www.tabs.com/run
Abacum is a modern FP&A platform built by former CFOs to replace slow, consultant-heavy planning tools. With self-service integrations and AI-powered workflows for forecasting, variance analysis, and scenario modeling, Abacum helps finance teams scale without becoming software admins. Trusted by teams at Strava, Replit, and JG Wentworth—learn more at https://www.abacum.ai
Brex is an intelligent finance platform that combines corporate cards, built-in expense management, and AI agents to eliminate manual finance work. By automating expense reviews and reconciliations, Brex gives CFOs more time for the high-impact work that drives growth. Join 35,000+ companies like Anthropic, Coinbase, and DoorDash at https://www.brex.com/metrics
Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com
RightRev is an automated revenue recognition platform built for modern pricing models like usage-based pricing, bundles, and mid-cycle upgrades. RightRev lets companies scale monetization without slowing down close or compliance. For RevRec that keeps growth moving, visit https://www.rightrev.com
Rillet is an AI-native ERP built for modern finance teams that want to close faster without fighting legacy systems. Designed to support complex revenue recognition, multi-entity operations, and real-time reporting, Rillet helps teams achieve a true zero-day close—with some customers closing in hours, not days. If you’re scaling on an ERP that wasn’t built in the 90s, book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/cj
—
LINKS:
Ken on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ken-stillwell-83a499a/
Pegasystems: https://www.pega.com/
CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/
Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com
—
RELATED EPISODES:
How Finance Becomes a GTM Partner, Not a Bottleneck | Chris Brubaker
https://youtu.be/T2YjdoiJtFA
—
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Preview and Intro
00:02:57 Sponsors — Tabs | Abacum | Brex
00:07:26 The Strategic Value of Being Number Two
00:08:46 Earnings Calls, Messaging, and Real-Time Judgment
00:10:41 Using Feedback to Sharpen Executive Communication
00:11:38 CFOs as Storytellers & Message Repetition
00:12:31 Managing Up: Reading the Room
00:13:59 Learning the Hard Way: Misreading Dynamics
00:15:18 Confidence, Aggression, and Early CFO Mistakes
00:15:58 Sponsors — Metronome | RightRev | Rillet
00:19:45 When to Email vs Pick Up the Phone
00:22:48 Tailoring Communication to Different Functions
00:23:23 Audience-Specific Messaging: “Why Me?”
00:25:24 Values vs Behaviors in Leadership
00:28:13 Why Big Changes Need Anchoring
00:31:14 Moving Pega to the Cloud
00:32:43 Rewiring Sales Comp for ARR & ACV
00:34:56 Sales Credibility Breakdowns with Customers
00:36:20 Economics vs Trust in Sales Teams
00:37:48 Balancing Field Feedback with Company Goals
00:39:17 De-Emphasizing New Logos to Fix the Sales Model
00:41:12 The Danger of Over-Obsessing on KPIs
00:42:51 Public vs Private: Incentives and Operating Discipline
00:45:57 Why Companies Go Private: Motivation Over Patience
00:47:29 The Shrinking Public Markets
00:47:57 Private vs Public CFO Mindsets
00:49:39 Meeting Investors Where They Are
00:50:16 A Risky Decision That Paid Off: Going All-In on the Cloud
00:51:29 Long-Ass Lightning Round
00:53:24 Ken’s Finance Tech Stack & Craziest Expense
00:54:39 Credits
#RunTheNumbersPodcast #CFOLeadership #ExecutiveCommunication #SalesStrategy #PublicVsPrivate


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com