The Forest School Podcast

This week, Wem and I chatted about Boundary setting and picked through Kami Orange's book of boundary scripts and frameworks!

What if the secret to better behaviour support in forest school isn't focusing on the child at all?
Lewis and Wem are back for a wide-ranging, woodland-based chat that opens with lime plaster, kilts, and a mosaic pizza oven before diving into some genuinely rich territory: what does it actually mean to take an intraaction-based approach to behaviour? How do you move away from old-school "fix the child" thinking without sliding into permissiveness? And what can a day of interpretive dance, collective poetry, and drama research in Bristol teach us about forest school pedagogy? Plus: squirrels, rabbits round the fire pit, the Southwest FSA Gathering, tenon cutters, and Wem's mysterious single-name workshop listing at the national conference.
Chapter Titles and Timestamps:
0:00 - Lime plaster, kilts, and a mosaic pizza oven
2:00 - Wearing messy, child-made things as a badge of honour
4:29 - Following up on Dr Wendy Russell: intraaction and behaviour support
6:54 - Old-school behaviour management vs. shifting what you can actually control
8:50 - The soup of a person: inner worlds, neuroplasticity, and fixed mindset language
14:20 - Persistent offering and not closing doors too early
17:53 - Is intraaction-based behaviour support just permissive?
20:02 - The communal cooking example: setting people up to succeed
22:27 - How loudly does John's sadness exist? On heterarchy and roles
26:07 - The Tangled Roots of Creative Research and Social Justice, Bristol
33:42 - The Conference of Trees and the value of cross-disciplinary spaces
35:49 - Space-setting intentions vs. ground rules: lessons from a research day
40:12 - The Southwest FSA Gathering at Hateford Woods
41:10 - Tenon cutters, turmeric dyeing, and beatboxing
44:29 - National conference plans, and Wem's workshop: Looking at Play Playfully
46:45 - Beech overhang, approaching rain, and goodbye
Supportive Elements:
Listen back to the episode with Dr Wendy Russell on play, posthumanism, and spatial justice for children, which this conversation directly follows on from. We also reference our previous episode on Nonviolent Communication. Find everything at www.children-of-the-forest.com. Support the show from around £2/month at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast , and leave us a voice message via the SpeakPipe link on the website.

This one is special. Wem and I got to sit down with Dr Wendy Russell, independent play researcher, senior research fellow at the University of Gloucestershire, and 50 years into a career that started on an adventure playground apprenticeship in the 1970s. I came away from this conversation needing to go for a long walk and think about everything.
The first half covers Wendy's work on spatial justice for children, the politics of public space, and what it would actually mean to have a statutory play sufficiency duty in England. We talk about what play sufficiency means in practice, why Wales has led the way, and why politicians keep defaulting to playgrounds when the picture is so much bigger than that.
The second half goes deeper, into the relational capability approach to playing and being well that Wendy has developed with Mike Barkley and Ben Tawil of Ludicology. Drawing on Henri Lefebvre's production of space, Karen Barad's concept of intra-action, and the relational turn across academic disciplines, Wendy patiently walked Wem and me through a genuinely paradigm-shifting way of thinking about children, play, agency and wellbeing.
By the end, the playwork principles themselves come under scrutiny. The idea of play as "freely chosen and personally directed" gets unpicked in a way that I'm still sitting with.
Strap in. Press rewind as many times as you need. See you on the other side.

In this episode

How Wendy moved from adventure playground apprentice to academic researcher across 50 years in play and playwork
The politics of space and what spatial justice for children actually means
Why falling road casualty statistics for children hide a much more troubling story
Play sufficiency as a principle, what it is, what Wales has done with it, and why England feels like it's at a genuine policy moment right now
The tension between play's intrinsic value and what funders and politicians actually want to measure
Why post-occupancy evaluation of housing developments almost never happens, and what Diana Bournat's research tells us when it does
How repositioning a ball games area changes the way girls move across an entire space
The relational capability approach to playing and being well, resources, opportunities, and the conditions that allow children to play
The relational turn across academic disciplines and what it means to move away from the individual, atomised child
Karen Barad's concept of intra-action and why "interaction" doesn't quite capture it
What all of this means for forest school practice, the wind, the branch, the ants, and us
Following an object across a play session as a practitioner reflective tool (I am absolutely trying this)
Why "freely chosen and personally directed" is a useful definition and also, it turns out, a deeply adult-centric one

Links and resources

Wendy Russell's publications, University of Gloucestershire research repository (search "Wendy Russell Gloucestershire") or via her LinkedIn profile [add link]
Playing and Being Well, the Play Wales commissioned research review: playwales.org.uk
Play Wales: playwales.org.uk
Play England: playengland.org.uk
Ludicology, Mike Barkley and Ben Tawil: ludicology.com
UNCRC General Comment 17 on Article 31, children's right to play
Henri Lefebvre, The Production of Space
Karen Barad, concept of intra-action
Tim Gill, children's independent mobility and road space design: timgill.net

Coming up at Children of the Forest

Pedagogy Immersion Weekend, 15 and 16 August 2026, Devon. If you're already qualified and you want to have the kind of conversation we've just had, this is the place. Tickets and nearby accommodation listings at children-of-the-forest.com
Level 3 Forest School Leader Training, Sunday cohort and intensive holiday block formats. Details and booking on the website.

Send us a voice note
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In this podcast, Nik Elvy, an artist, outdoor educator, and researcher, shares insights on neo-enclosure, folk traditions, and the impact of history on contemporary society.
We explored themes of land access, cultural heritage, and social justice, offering a deep dive into how history and folklore shape our present and future.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Personal Anecdotes
01:18 Nick Elvie's Background and Recent Work
03:01 Understanding Neo-Enclosure: Definitions and Examples
04:59 Green Spaces, Parking, and Neo-Enclosure
06:48 Community Spaces and Exclusion
09:01 Meeting with the Secretary of State on Poverty
11:55 Poverty, Epigenetics, and Family History
15:56 Historical Land Rights and Enclosure Movements
20:02 Folklore, Folk Practices, and Cultural Heritage
29:54 The Folk Renaissance and Cultural Appropriation
39:57 Community Engagement and Folk Traditions
50:05 Contemporary Challenges: Gentrification and Cultural Loss
57:58 The Role of Outdoor Education and Land Access
01:00:00 Closing Remarks and Resources

Folklorican on Substack - https://folklorican.substack.com/
Folkloric on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/folkloric

Unlocking the Secrets of Soil: An Interview with Ellen Fay from the Sustainable Soils Alliance
Discover the fascinating world beneath our feet with Ellen Fay, a passionate advocate for soil health and biodiversity. In this episode, we delve into what soil really is, why it's vital for our planet, and how we can all contribute to its preservation.
Main Topics:
The fundamental composition and diversity of soil across different landscapes
The significance of soil as a living ecosystem and its role in climate change mitigation
Threats to soil health including erosion, contamination, compaction, and land use
Practical ways for schools and individuals to support soil conservation
The importance of policy and research gaps in soil protection efforts
Key Insights:
Soil is a complex living ecosystem made up of minerals, organic matter, water, air, and a vast diversity of microorganisms and fauna.
There are over 750 recognized soil types in the UK, each requiring specific management practices.
Soil degradation poses significant threats to biodiversity, water management, and climate regulation.
Protecting leaf litter, avoiding soil compaction, and understanding local soil types are critical practices for environmental stewardship.
National soil monitoring and policies need nurturing to safeguard soil for future generations.
Small everyday actions, such as avoiding peat and engaging kids in soil exploration, can make a substantial impact.
Timestamps:
00:44 - Introduction to Ellen Fay and her journey into soil advocacy

01:33 - The importance of soil knowledge and the role of the Sustainable Soils Alliance

05:23 - Simplified explanation of what soil is and its components

09:36 - Diversity of soil types across the UK and their formation

12:53 - How ancient woodland soils differ and why they are slow to recover

15:00 - The debate over leaf litter and soil layers in forests

17:31 - The vulnerability of soils and threats from land use and construction

21:15 - The impact of soil compaction and how to remediate it

24:52 - The ecosystem functions of soil and its importance for water and carbon storage

29:52 - Current national initiatives and policies for soil protection

32:18 - Practical actions individuals and schools can take to promote soil health

40:45 - The potential impacts of using woodchip on pathways and soil protection

42:48 - Final advice on making informed decisions to safeguard soil
Resources & Links:
Sustainable Soils Alliance
UK Soil Map & Data
Book: "Teaming with Microbes" by Jeff Lowenfels
Research on Soil Biodiversity
Understanding Soil Erosion and Conservation
Connect with Ellen Fay:
LinkedIn
Twitter
Website
Additional notes:
Ellen emphasises the crucial role of education, policy reform, and everyday actions in preserving soil. Engaging children in soil ecology — through activities like wormeries and plant growth experiments — fosters early appreciation and stewardship of this vital resource.