The Modern People Leader: Forward-Thinking HR

• 237 - Performance expectations have shifted: Danny Guillory (Chief People Officer, Glassdoor), Lisa Anne Logan (Chief of Staff, People, Asana), Dashini Jeyathurai (Sr. Dir, Development & EX, Upstart)

  We were joined by people leaders from Glassdoor, Asana, and Upstart. We talked about the fragmented burnout and how it’s hitting people differently, how performance expectations have shifted in the last 6-12 months, and more.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (03:18) Good news stories from the guests and hosts(10:25) Fragmented burnout & how it’s hitting different roles(12:09) External pressures, AI anxiety & workplace expectations(13:27) Burnout as a personal experience: ownership vs. company responsibility(16:35) Rethinking roles, flexibility & meeting changing employee expectations(19:16) Empowering managers to reimagine roles using AI(20:41) Clarifying the Employee Value Proposition (EVP) during transformation(22:08) Internal mobility in the age of AI: org chart vs. work chart(24:32) From bell curve to bell cliff: redefining performance expectations(26:04) HR’s role in transparent, human-centered performance shifts(29:20) Has the performance bar moved? Surveying the room(31:53) How Glassdoor is redesigning performance with clarity & structure(34:03) The emotional toll of high performance & psychological safety risks(35:44) Simple, powerful manager questions to surface blockers(37:01) Peer feedback and cross-functional collaboration blockers(41:09) Asking for help, normalizing team-based problem solving(42:06) After party reflections: rethinking performance with old & new problems(45:58) Why AI is the catalyst—but not the only answer—for a new performance model(48:54) Real-time AI coaching & proactive performance feedback at scale(52:23) Moving from annual reviews to check-in > coach > calibrate(55:05) Magic wand question: what performance challenge would you automate?---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

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• Build - The Metrics That Actually Matter in HR: Jessica Zwaan (Author, Built For People)

  Jessica Zwaan joined us again to unpack the metrics that actually matter in HR today. We talked about the three buckets of metrics every People Leader should use, why the RANS test is a better way to measure engagement, and the one metric to rule them all (ELTV:CAC). ---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (04:33) Metrics and Visualization: Where People Analytics Stands Today(05:41) Why HR Has Talked About Analytics for Years But Still Struggles(08:12) The Double-Edged Sword of AI in People Analytics(10:15) LLMs Are Great at Cleanup, Not Complex Analysis(12:04) What Good People Analytics Looks Like in Practice(13:44) Health, Operational, and Success Metrics Explained(16:28) Vanity Metrics HR Teams Should Avoid(18:12) The Case Against ENPS (Engagement Net Promoter Score)(21:05) Why You Can—and Should—Measure the “Unmeasurable”(24:15) The First Step in Building a Metrics-Led HR Culture(27:23) Why Manual Data Work is Still Essential(29:24) The Importance of Defining Critical Numbers(32:05) A Real Example: Visualizing Comp Data to Drive Strategy(34:12) Jessica’s Beef with Pie Charts (and Why You Should Care)(37:29) Favorite Metrics: Interview-to-Performance Correlation & RANS Test(42:45) Why ELTV to CAC Payback Should Be HR’s North Star Metric(47:43) Commercial Effectiveness Through People Metrics(48:13) Tech Stack Tips for Getting Started with HR Data---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

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• 235 - 3 principles this Head of People swears by to build high-impact teams – Frieda Möcker (Head of People & Culture, Sastrify)

  Frieda Möcker, Head of People & Culture at Sastrify, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about the first steps she took to treat HR more like a product, how her team does sprint planning, and why she prefers “NCTs” over OKRs.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- Timestamps:(11:05) What’s Your Story? – Frieda’s path from business grad to People leader(17:30) Lessons in Career – Finding purpose, startups, and self-awareness(18:47) About Sastrify – SaaS management, shadow IT, and compliance(20:40) Why PeopleOps as a Product Resonated – Discovering the framework(23:03) Reading Jessica’s Blog – The gym moment that changed everything(25:15) Reaching Out to Jessica – Building connections through shared philosophy(26:23) Putting Theory into Practice – Mapping employee journeys, launching sprints(29:17) Our 3 Guiding Principles – Maximize impact, think like a scientist, build through others(31:33) Employee Research – Interviews, pulse checks, and surfacing insights(33:26) Making It Your Own – Culture fit and adapting frameworks(34:05) Maximizing to Mission – How priorities ladder up to company goals(38:27) Ruthless Prioritization – Why some good ideas wait in the backlog(39:35) Team Structure – A three-person generalist People team(41:33) Visualization in Practice – Miro, Asana, Slack, and the “SAN Stack”(42:58) Sprint Planning – Lifecycle mapping, roles, and task ownership(47:58) What Is ScrumBan? – Combining kanban boards and sprint logic(50:20) Blocking & Saying No – How visualizing work helps stakeholders understand tradeoffs---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

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• MPL Live SF: HR is the glue holding everything together right now

  Tiffany Stevenson (Former CPO, WeightWatchers), Jennifer Rettig (CPO, Pendo.io), and Kelli Dragovich (4x CHRO & Co-host of HR Heretics), joined us for MPL Live in San Francisco.We talked about the pressure HR leaders are under, what CEOs are really thinking, and how we can reimagine performance with simpler systems, clearer expectations, and more human conversations.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Go request a demo of Confirm.🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (05:42) Good News – Personal and professional life updates from the panelists(11:24) Topic Kickoff – Why performance management is broken(18:13) Leadership Reality – JR on managing through uncertainty(20:50) Inside the CEO Mind – Performance pressure and shifting tolerance(28:20) Forward Motion – How to simplify systems and focus on what matters(35:38) Microbehaviors Matter – One key question to ask each quarter(36:25) What’s Broken – Beyond ratings, what's really not working(40:05) The Manager's View – Starting performance conversations with real people(41:05) HR Island – Why we need to co-build with the business(44:48) Career Sandwich Sponsor Message – Support during layoffs(48:17) Organizational Network Analysis – Better questions, better signals(49:30) Q&A Begins – First audience question: feedback transparency(49:55) Anonymous vs. Attributed – Building trust through open feedback(54:47) Normalizing Feedback – Everyday moments to reinforce culture(55:04) Lessons from the Past – Why we over-indexed on anonymity(56:16) Q&A Follow-Up – When high ratings don’t match company performance(59:40) HR’s Role – Ownership, repetition, and enabling accountability(1:11:35) Modern Performance Frameworks – Quizlet’s hybrid approach and iteration(1:13:35) Integrating AI – PM mindset in HR and finding product-style solutions(1:15:13) Focus and Roadmaps – Tightening priorities like a product team(1:19:51) The Resistant CEO – Approaching change and building empathy(1:22:25) Testing and Pilots – Experimenting with change and using the word “try”(1:24:34) Planning Together – Building alignment and pitching as a united front(1:30:30) AI in Reviews – Making performance reflection easier and meaningful(1:35:14) Q2: Iteration Frequency – How often is too often to change?(1:40:36) Final Thoughts – Change is constant, strategic, and collaborative(1:41:09) Closing – Sponsor thanks, giveaway winner, wrap-up message---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

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• Build - How to Hire for People Ops as a Product: Jessica Zwaan (Author, Built for People)

  Jessica Zwaan joined us again on The Modern People Leader to break down how to hire for a people ops as a product team.She shared the 5 core skillsets needed, the importance of t-shaped talent, and how to use case studies to spot product thinking in HR Candidates.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (04:37) What We’re Talking About – Hiring for PeopleOps as a Product teams(05:07) Core Skill Sets Breakdown – Planning, testing, research, building, human ops(07:35) Most Underrated Skill – Why planning is a secret weapon(09:14) Testing vs. Research – Bias, data, and design decisions(10:19) Jessica’s Strengths – Building and testing as her personal edge(14:07) Hiring Strategy – What to prioritize if you can only hire one(16:45) Dropbox’s Top Talent Traits – Anti-admin, pro-outcome problem-solvers(20:26) “Spike” Explained – Understanding T-shaped superpowers(21:03) The Shift in HR – From compliance-heavy to problem-solving ops(23:59) Outdated Metrics – Why perfect completion isn’t the goal(25:46) Case Study Interviews – New hiring methods for a new model(27:31) Good Case Study Topics – Onboarding, promotions, ambiguity(29:22) Test Structure – Paid projects, presentation flexibility, feedback dynamics(31:00) Nuanced Case Study Design – Testing ambiguity tolerance(33:02) Screening Interviews – Signals to look for and questions to ask(36:08) Guide Overview – Scorecards, templates, and examples included(37:05) The One-Year Outlook – What your team should look like after hiring this way(38:01) Biggest Myth – Great talent is already in traditional HR(39:25) Early Mistakes – The case study drop-off and misaligned recruiting---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

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