The Successful Bookkeeper Podcast

See what the team at The Successful Bookkeeper has on right now →

Andrew Seguin was already running a strong bookkeeping firm when he last appeared on this podcast — at $1 million in revenue with a team of eight. Two and a half years later, he's back with a $2 million firm and a team of fifteen. In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Andrew walks through the real work behind that growth: the systems he built, the delegation habits he had to form, and the profitability metrics that changed how he runs everything.

Chapters

[00:00] Opening quote on delegation

[00:42] Introducing Andrew Seguin

[02:30] From $1M to $2M: the story

[05:30] Getting out of the weeds

[09:00] Building training systems that scale

[13:00] Managing change without overwhelming the team

[17:00] Introducing the effective hourly rate

[23:00] Building the profitability dashboard

[28:00] Time tracking: getting team buy-in

[34:00] Pricing strategy and the 3-month clause

Getting Out of the Weeds

Even after hitting $1 million, Andrew was still deep in the day-to-day — doing bookkeeping, managing clients directly, and holding too much tax knowledge himself. The path to $2 million required him to deliberately reduce his own workload. "I was probably still doing a lot of day-to-day work," he says. "I knew I had some goals for '24 and '25, which was to reduce my own workload." That meant hiring a dedicated payroll team, bringing on a tax specialist, and doubling down on the pod structure — senior and junior team members working together as a unit.

Delegation Starts With Systems, Not Just Trust

One of Andrew's clearest lessons: delegation without a proper training system is just dumping work on people. He invested heavily in building a training package so that new hires could learn the firm's tools, standards, and workflows without having to figure things out from scratch. "You spend a little bit of time upfront — it's always hard because you have to find time to do it. But once you get over that hump, that's where things really start cascading into a really strong effect." He also cautions against piling on too much change in a single year, aiming instead for one meaningful improvement goal per year so the team isn't overwhelmed.

The Effective Hourly Rate: A Metric That Changed Everything

The single biggest profitability driver Andrew introduced was tracking each client's effective hourly rate (EHR) — revenue divided by hours worked on that file. His firm uses ClickUp for time tracking and QuickBooks Online for revenue data, feeding into a custom-built dashboard that shows the team exactly where they stand, client by client. "We essentially cut about 10% of our clients and then priced up about 40% of our clients to a rate that we wanted internally." The target range is $125–$150 per hour, minimum. Before this system, the firm's average was around $106–$108 per hour. After 18 months of using the data, it's closer to $250.

Transparent Data, Aligned Teams

Andrew doesn't hide this metric from his staff. The management team sees it. The bookkeepers who work on those files are aware of it. When a client's EHR falls short, the conversation isn't about poor performance — it's about scope creep, underestimated complexity, or pricing that needs revisiting. He also ties compensation growth directly to hitting those rates, so the team has a real reason to track their time accurately. "I'm very transparent — you guys wouldn't have these increases the way you have been getting for the last 3 years if we didn't have this data."

Pricing, Minimums, and the 3-Month Revisit Clause

Andrew's pricing approach is a hybrid of fixed and value-based: estimate the hours, multiply by the target EHR, then add complexity factors like multi-currency, e-commerce, or payroll. The firm's minimum for monthly engagements is $1,000, with an average around $1,600. Critically, every new engagement includes a clause allowing the firm to revisit pricing after three months — when actual time and complexity data is in hand. "We've had to do that a few times because there is no perfect system. A questionnaire and a quick conversation isn't going to tell you enough about the complexities and the volume of the file."

Links Mentioned

PureBookkeeping — episode sponsor

The Successful Bookkeeper — resources and episode archive

ClickUp — project and time-tracking tool used by Seguin Financial

About the Guest

Andrew Seguin is the founder of Seguin Financial, a virtual bookkeeping firm based in Canada with a team of fifteen full-time staff. Over eight and a half years, Andrew grew his firm from a solo side practice to a $2 million business, built around strong systems, transparent team culture, and data-driven client management. He is a frequent speaker and educator in the bookkeeping community.

About the host
Michael Palmer
Michael Palmer is the host of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast and co-founder of Pure Bookkeeping and The Successful Bookkeeper. He started this work because of his father — a brilliant electrical contractor who worked twice as hard as he should have had to, because nobody on the financial side was in his corner. That gap is what The Successful Bookkeeper exists to close. His view: bookkeepers are the most undervalued force in small business — and every bookkeeper who builds a real business changes two families: theirs, and their clients'.

See what the team at The Successful Bookkeeper has on right now →

Amanda McKinney is back, and this conversation picks up right where the field is most uncomfortable: the place where your own capability quietly becomes the ceiling on your growth. If you've ever thought "it's faster if I just do it myself," this episode was made for you. Amanda brings her accountability coaching lens to the real-world pressures bookkeepers face — the revolving door of client work, the resistance to delegation, and the habits that quietly drain capacity before burnout ever arrives.

Chapters

[00:00] The 3-Times System Rule

[01:18] Welcome and Guest Introduction

[03:30] Amanda's Journey Since 2023

[08:30] Working With Teams Long-Term

[13:00] When Capability Becomes an Obstacle

[17:00] Warning Signs of Unsustainable Pace

[21:00] The Case for Hobbies

[25:00] Building Systems to Delegate

[29:00] SOPs in Practice: Quarterly Taxes

[32:30] Amanda's Podcast Pause

The Highly Capable Trap

Being good at your work is a genuine asset — right up until it isn't. Amanda explains that capability creates capacity, and capacity gets filled. "The problem with being capable is that it opens up more capacity. And when you have more capacity, you get more work. Either it's given to you or you give it to yourself." For bookkeepers, where the work never truly stops, this cycle can accelerate fast. Recognizing the pattern is the first step out of it.

Warning Signs Worth Watching

Amanda walks through the early signals that something needs to change — before burnout forces the issue. Physical heaviness when someone asks how you're doing, or the moment you realize your only answer to "what do you do for fun?" is your work. She shared that in 2024, that was her own reality. "I realized, oh my gosh, I have no hobbies. I don't have anything that I do just for fun." Intentionally adding even 15 minutes of something non-work-related a week can start shifting that.

The 3-Times Rule for Systems

This is the practical core of the episode. Amanda's rule of thumb: if you do something more than 3 times, it needs a system. She uses invoicing as a quick gut-check — if you can't describe your process fast, you're spending unnecessary brainpower every single time. The fix is straightforward: the next time you do that task, record yourself walking through it using a screen recorder like Loom or Neato (free). That recording becomes your SOP, and that SOP becomes your delegation tool. She applied this to her own quarterly tax payments: "I did it in like 15 minutes. Whereas that would have taken me an hour or two if I didn't have those steps written out."

Delegation Without the Dread

Most bookkeepers resist handing work off because training someone else feels slower than doing it themselves. Amanda reframes this: a documented system removes most of that training burden. The SOP does the heavy lifting, and the person you're delegating to — whether human or software — gets a clear path to follow your standards. As Michael put it during the conversation, "SOPs are the pathway to profitability."

Sustainable Growth Requires a Pause

Amanda recently did something that surprised her own audience: she intentionally paused her podcast after eight straight years of weekly content. The flood of concerned emails she received made her realize how rarely people pause before something forces them to. The message for bookkeepers is the same — growth that lasts has to be built on something sustainable. Waiting for a crisis to rest isn't a strategy. "You don't have to be burnt out before you make a decision to change something."

Links Mentioned

Loom — screen and voice recording tool for creating SOPs

Neeto — free alternative screen recording tool (used by The Successful Bookkeeper team)

purebookkeeping.com — episode sponsor; system to grow your bookkeeping business

thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com — show resources and guest info

Accountable podcast by Amanda McKinney (300+ episodes available; currently on intentional pause)

About the Guest

Amanda McKinney is an accountability coach, speaker, and the host of the Accountable podcast (formerly The Unapologetic Entrepreneur). She works primarily with driven entrepreneurs and leadership teams to help them follow through on goals that keep getting pushed to the back burner — without burning out in the process. She has been coaching since 2017 and now leads engagements ranging from 90-day individual programs to 9–12 month team partnerships. You can find her through her podcast archive of 300+ episodes or by reaching out directly through her website.

About the host
Michael Palmer
Michael Palmer is the host of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast and co-founder of Pure Bookkeeping and The Successful Bookkeeper. He started this work because of his father — a brilliant electrical contractor who worked twice as hard as he should have had to, because nobody on the financial side was in his corner. That gap is what The Successful Bookkeeper exists to close. His view: bookkeepers are the most undervalued force in small business — and every bookkeeper who builds a real business changes two families: theirs, and their clients'.

See what the team at The Successful Bookkeeper has on right now →

Your clients' financials tell one story. What your clients think about their business tells another. In this episode, fractional CFO, course creator, and speaker Debra Angilletta returns to show how closing that gap — through simple, curiosity-driven conversations — is the most direct path to selling advisory services. No complicated sales process required.

Chapters

[00:00] Opening Quote and Intro

[01:35] Meet Debra Angilletta

[03:30] Why Bookkeepers Struggle to Sell Advisory

[06:10] The "Curious" Question Technique

[09:20] Staying Human in a Digital World

[11:50] Finding Your First Five Clients

[14:30] The Advisory Transformation

[17:30] What 100 Business Owners Said

[20:30] About the Book: Hidden Profits

[22:40] Rapid Fire: Steps to Take Now

The Missing Half of the Story

Numbers give you the facts; your client's perspective gives you the context. Debra frames advisory as the natural result of putting those two pieces together: "When you put those two pieces of information together, that's where the magic happens, and that's where you can fill the gap." The good news is you already have one half. You just need to ask for the other.

One Word That Changes Everything

If you're not sure how to start a probing question without sounding nosy or accusatory, Debra has a single practical fix: lead with "curious." Saying "Curious — I noticed this in your books, can you tell me more?" removes any sense of blame, gives your client permission to explore rather than defend, and opens the conversation rather than closing it down. It's a small shift with a big effect on how clients respond.

Finding Your First Five

You don't need to overhaul your entire practice to get started. Debra's advice is to scan your client list, pick five people who seem most open to a deeper conversation, and book a 30-minute call — framed simply as "I saw some interesting things in your books that might be of value." That's it. The goal isn't to pitch advisory on the spot; it's to practice having the conversation. "There's nothing complicated here," Debra says. "I don't want to make it complicated for your audience at all."

Business Owners Are Waiting for You to Ask

Debra interviewed 100 small business owners while writing her book Hidden Profits, and the finding stopped her in her tracks. When she asked what they wished their bookkeeper did that they weren't doing, the answer was overwhelming: more strategic advisory. "I wish they would give me information that I can use to drive my business forward." Most business owners operate in isolation, with no one to think out loud with — and your existing financial relationship puts you closer to that trusted-advisor seat than you might realize.

The Transformation on the Other Side

Bookkeepers who start having these conversations consistently go through a noticeable shift. Debra sees it regularly: once they experience what advisory conversations feel like, they want more of them. More importantly, the relationship with the client changes. "It actually uplevels you to partnership level... they're going to see you as that trusted advisor." The compliance work stays valuable — but it's no longer the ceiling on what the relationship can be.

Links Mentioned

Hidden Profits: Stop Chasing Cash, Predictable Profit in 90 Days by Debra Angilletta — findmyhiddenprofits.com (free download of first 3 chapters) or search "Hidden Profits" on Amazon

MasterMySales.com — Debra's sales training for financial professionals

PureBookkeeping.com — episode sponsor

thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com — show resources and guest links

About the Guest

Debra Angilletta is a fractional CFO, course creator, and speaker at MasterMySales.com who specializes in helping bookkeepers, accountants, and financial professionals sell and deliver advisory services with confidence. She works primarily with small business owners in the $500K–$3M revenue range and is the author of Hidden Profits: Stop Chasing Cash, Predictable Profit in 90 Days. Debra is a returning speaker at The Successful Bookkeeper Summit and a consistent audience favourite.

About the host
Michael Palmer
Michael Palmer is the host of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast and co-founder of Pure Bookkeeping and The Successful Bookkeeper. He started this work because of his father — a brilliant electrical contractor who worked twice as hard as he should have had to, because nobody on the financial side was in his corner. That gap is what The Successful Bookkeeper exists to close. His view: bookkeepers are the most undervalued force in small business — and every bookkeeper who builds a real business changes two families: theirs, and their clients'.

See what the team at The Successful Bookkeeper has on right now →

Dr. Sabrina Starling has spent over 20 years helping small business owners build profitable, sustainable companies without burning themselves out. In this episode, she brings her business psychology background directly to bookkeepers — walking through her $10,000-an-hour framework, the mindset shift that changed everything for her, and the practical steps you can take right now to stop trading hours for dollars and start building a business that works without you.

Chapters

[00:00] Opening and guest introduction

[01:35] Burnout and starting a business

[04:40] The E-Myth epiphany

[08:10] The $10,000-an-hour framework

[12:40] First hire and finding A-players

[17:00] Time audits and glass ceilings

[19:10] What has and hasn't changed in 20 years

[22:40] AI and the human advantage

[25:30] Serving your top clients and micro-innovation

[28:50] The free download and closing thoughts

From Burnout to 25 Hours a Week

Sabrina started her business fresh out of a gruelling career as a psychologist in community mental health — working 40- to 50-hour weeks, taking on-call shifts, and running on empty. When she launched her coaching practice and started a family at the same time, she made what she calls a "very naive declaration": she would only work 25 hours a week. What felt like an impossible constraint turned out to be one of the best decisions she ever made. "Limits force innovation and creativity," she explains. That boundary forced her to be ruthlessly focused on only the work that moved the business forward.

The $10,000-an-Hour Framework

The turning point came when Sabrina started categorising every task in her business by its dollar-per-hour value — $10, $100, $1,000, or $10,000. She printed the chart and put it behind her monitor so she'd see it constantly. "Inevitably, I would be nose down working on something for a client, and then I would look up and say, oh my gosh, I've just spent 4 hours in $10 and $100 an hour activity." Blocking her highest-value work on the calendar first — before checking email, before firefighting — is what made the difference. She's made the chart available as a free download at tapthepotential.com/10k, along with two podcast episodes walking through how to use it for yourself and with your team.

Hiring A-Players Into the Right Seats

Sabrina's first hire was a virtual assistant — and the thinking she put into that hire became the seed of her How to Hire the Best book series. Rather than hiring fast out of desperation, she asked: what strengths does this role actually require to deliver results day in and day out? Her original VA, hired for her people skills and attention to detail, is still with the company 20 years later. "One A-player in the right seat working from their strengths will be 900% to 1,200% more productive than a warm body team member." For bookkeepers, payroll is already the biggest profit leak — and it's usually not optimised with A-players.

AI, Adaptability, and the Human Advantage

AI is reshaping bookkeeping, and Sabrina doesn't sidestep that. But her take is direct: when you offload $10-an-hour busywork to AI, you free yourself to do the work that actually can't be automated — deeply understanding your best clients, spotting problems they can't see in their own numbers, and delivering insight that goes far beyond the books. "When we convey to our team members that we want them doing $10,000 an hour work and we're going to show them how, they get so excited and they are relieved because they know they have job security at that point." The bookkeepers who will thrive are the ones having real conversations with their top clients and continuously innovating around their needs.

Working From Your Sweet Spot

Sabrina encourages bookkeepers to identify the 20% of clients driving 80% of revenue — and then narrow that further to the ones who are also a genuine joy to work with. Those are the relationships worth doubling down on. Use your natural detail orientation to tune in to what those clients are worried about, what's keeping them up at night, and where you can remove friction for them. She calls the result "micro-innovation" — small, consistent improvements that compound over time and make you genuinely irreplaceable. "Small steps forward taken in a consistent direction lead to big change over time."

Links Mentioned

Free $10,000-an-hour activity chart + bonus podcast episodes: tapthepotential.com/10k

The E-Myth by Michael Gerber

How to Hire the Best book series by Dr. Sabrina Starling

Profit by Design Podcast (Tap the Potential)

thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com

About the Guest

Dr. Sabrina Starling is a business psychologist, speaker, and author, and the founder of Tap the Potential LLC. She helps entrepreneurs build profitable, sustainably run companies by hiring A-players, building strong systems, and designing businesses that support their lives — not the other way around. Her entire team works 25 hours a week, and she has personally worked down to about 10. She is the author of the How to Hire the Best series and hosts the Profit by Design podcast.

About the host
Michael Palmer
Michael Palmer is the host of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast and co-founder of Pure Bookkeeping and The Successful Bookkeeper. He started this work because of his father — a brilliant electrical contractor who worked twice as hard as he should have had to, because nobody on the financial side was in his corner. That gap is what The Successful Bookkeeper exists to close. His view: bookkeepers are the most undervalued force in small business — and every bookkeeper who builds a real business changes two families: theirs, and their clients'.

See what the team at The Successful Bookkeeper has on right now →

Teresa Gregory has spent her career helping leaders find the hidden patterns that quietly shape every decision they make. In this conversation with host Michael Palmer, she turns that lens directly on bookkeeping professionals — the people who sit in a unique seat of trust with their clients every single day. Whether you manage a team, serve a full client roster, or are building your firm on your own, the mindset habits Teresa shares here apply immediately.

Chapters

[00:00] Introduction and Teresa's Background

[03:13] Hidden Bias and First Impressions

[07:00] Bias as a Biological Response

[11:00] Working With Difficult Clients

[14:30] The PAUSE Method Explained

[19:00] Active Listening vs. Reloading

[23:00] Strategic Client Check-Ins

[27:00] Why Every Bookkeeper Needs a Coach

[31:30] Positioning Yourself as an ROI Expert

[35:30] Teresa's Resources and Wrap-Up

Hidden Bias Is Running in the Background

Every interaction you walk into carries invisible baggage. Teresa calls it the fight-or-flight response — a biological pattern your brain uses to assess safety and make quick judgments. The problem isn't that it exists; the problem is when you let a past experience cloud what's happening right now. "I'm reinforcing every time I have this engagement with them without identifying it and without saying, 'hey, this is what's going on,'" she explains. The first step is simply naming the bias before you walk into a meeting, a call, or a difficult conversation.

The PAUSE Method for Breaking the Pattern

Teresa teaches a five-step framework — Pause, Awareness, Unwind, Strategic, Effectiveness — that gives leaders a repeatable way to interrupt bias before it takes over. Pause and name what you're carrying. Build awareness of when it tends to show up. Unwind the reinforced pattern. Be strategic about what you'll do differently. Then evaluate honestly: did it work? "You have to identify it and say, 'this is what's causing me to do this,' and then look at how do I overcome it?" The method works whether you're prepping for a tense client review or walking into a room full of people you're slightly in awe of.

Active Listening vs. Reloading

Most people think they're listening. Teresa says they're reloading — nodding, making eye contact, and waiting for their turn to talk. Active listening looks different: you take in what the client actually said, reframe it back in your own words, and confirm you got it right. "What I heard you saying is…" followed by "Did I get that right?" This one shift builds more trust than almost anything else you can do. For bookkeepers — who already have deep, consistent access to business owners — it's a fast path to becoming a true strategic partner rather than a transactional vendor.

Know What Your Client Actually Cares About

Teresa is direct: you should have a running list of each client's core values and priorities. "If I cannot say to Michael, your number one important thing is ROI or bottom line or taxes, I need to be able to identify that. You should have a running list of what are the things that are important to that client so you can speak to those — and then any solution that you're proposing or any conversation you're having ties right back to it." Schedule intentional check-ins — monthly if possible, quarterly at minimum — to ask what has changed. Businesses change. Lives change. If you're not asking, you're missing it.

Reposition Yourself as an ROI Expert

One of the most practical moments in this episode is Teresa's challenge to bookkeepers to rethink how they introduce themselves. "If you were to tell me, 'I offer business owners a strategic advantage because I help them understand ROI' — now I'm like, whoa, I need that." Her own sister, a bookkeeper, spent six months practicing a new way of describing her work at local chamber events. The result: new clients in industries she'd never considered. You track every dollar that moves through a business. That is, by definition, the work of an ROI expert. Lead with that.

Links mentioned

Squared Success website: squaredsuccess.com

Teresa Gregory on LinkedIn: search "Teresa L. Gregory"

PureBookkeeping: purebookkeeping.com

The Successful Bookkeeper: thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com

About the guest

Teresa Gregory is the founder of Squared Success, a leadership strategy and coaching firm. She began her career in training and development inside corporate organizations — including supporting the finance team at Microsoft — before transitioning into executive coaching for business owners. Her work focuses on helping leaders uncover hidden mindset barriers, break bias patterns, and build the intentional habits that drive real results. Teresa is also a speaker and, notably, coaches her own bookkeeper sister to help her grow her firm.

About the host
Michael Palmer
Michael Palmer is the host of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast and co-founder of Pure Bookkeeping and The Successful Bookkeeper. He started this work because of his father — a brilliant electrical contractor who worked twice as hard as he should have had to, because nobody on the financial side was in his corner. That gap is what The Successful Bookkeeper exists to close. His view: bookkeepers are the most undervalued force in small business — and every bookkeeper who builds a real business changes two families: theirs, and their clients'.