Workplace Stories by RedThread Research

Leadership is often the deciding factor in whether organizations thrive or falter, but the way we lead matters even more. In the latest episode of Workplace Stories, Dr. Benjamin Granger, Chief Workplace Psychologist at Qualtrics and author of A Leader Worth Following, explores why so many organizations still default to dominance-based leadership, and what it means to build cultures that reward prestige-based approaches instead. Blending insights from evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and years of workplace research, Ben shares his thoughts on how leadership styles shape employee experience and business success. 

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00:00 Discussing Leadership Challenges and Trust
06:21 Understanding organizational psychology
07:30 Balancing theory and practical application
14:50 Playing the power politics game
20:00 Discussing organizational power shifts
22:36 Operating under dominant leaders
35:12 Handling Uncertainty as a Leader
37:46 Influence of environment on behavior
40:58 The impact of physical environment
50:44 Focusing on honest feedback

The Evolutionary Roots of Leadership

Most social animals, including humans, establish hierarchies where certain individuals rise to the top. In non-human species, this rise is usually based on dominance: the biggest, strongest, or most aggressive become the alphas by imposing their will on others. Humans, however, have developed an alternative: prestige. Prestige-based leaders earn followership by demonstrating genuine competence and contributing to the group's well-being, prompting others to follow willingly rather than out of fear or obligation.

Prestige is one of the things that makes us the most evolutionarily distinct. But despite its clear advantages, modern organizations too often favor dominance. Dominance works in the short term, it gets quick results, especially in high-pressure situations, but, like alphas in the animal kingdom, it’s always temporary and can be overturned by newer, stronger rivals.

Why Organizations Default to Dominance

Despite prestige-based leadership delivering better outcomes, structural pressures and cultural inertia mean that organizations still often rely on dominance. Environments that obsess over immediate results—hitting quarterly numbers, quick responses to crises—inevitably reward those who can “get it done now,” even if it means sidelining empathy, trust-building, or transparency.

Organizations often pay lip service to soft skills, layering emotional intelligence and empathy expectations over systems fundamentally designed for command-and-control. This is backward, though, every organization exists to meet the needs of other people, and if it doesn't do that, it doesn't exist. 

Building Prestige-Based Cultures

Changing leadership norms starts with both organizational systems and individual behaviors. 

Audit Your Core Values: Are they truly reflected in observable behaviors and environmental cues—from glass doors symbolizing transparency to real open Q&As in all-hands meetings? 
Measure What Matters: Don’t just reward outcomes; examine how results were achieved, looking for consistency with your stated values.
Foster High-Fidelity Communication: In an age of automation and AI, preserve spaces for genuine human dialogue to counteract the erosion of trust and connection.
Invest in Leadership Skills: Require training in rhetoric, body language, and executive presence for all leaders—not to polish surface impressions, but to deepen real influence and trust.

The Future of Leadership in an AI World

AI and automation are accelerating every aspect of business, but they also risk stripping away the very things that make organizations human. Rigid digital systems (like micromanaged expense policies) can signal distrust as surely as an angry boss. If organizations lean too heavily on these tools, they may unwittingly degrade the high-trust, collaborative communication on which true prestige-based leadership is built.
As Benjamin says, “Mankind's greatest achievements have come about by talking, its greatest failures by not talking. All we need to do is make sure we keep talking”. Leadership for the future is about mastery of self and service to others, pulling people forward by example, not pushing them down by force. 

 Resources & People Mentioned

Dr. Steve Hunt 
Josh Bersin 
Edgar Schein
Stephen Hawking 
A Leader Worth Following: How to Master Yourself, Influence Others, and Create Exceptional Experiences by Benjamin Granger
Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari
An Integrative Model of Organizational Trust 

Connect with Benjamin Granger

Benjamin Granger on LinkedIn 

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When IBM spun off its infrastructure services business into Kyndryl, it created the largest public company spin in New York Stock Exchange history—launching with 90,000 employees and a daunting reality: 60% of customer accounts were unprofitable, and revenues were shrinking. Amid intense pressure to reset the trajectory, Kyndryl’s then-CHRO Maryjo Charbonnier architected a workforce strategy that prioritized people, data, and adaptability. On the podcast this week, Maryjo shares her expertise on how to build a skills-centric enterprise ready for an AI-powered future.

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[04:22] Overcoming workforce skill challenges at Kyndryl
[13:51] Defining company culture and values
[16:45] Reducing and restructuring the workforce
[24:58] Improving employee redeployment rates
[31:05] Tackling vended labor challenges
[38:21] Managing skills across job families
[42:49] Finding allies in unexpected departments
[52:10] Improving Kyndryl resource planning
[53:02] Future workforce tracking challenges

Building a Culture First, Systems Second

While it may be tempting for HR to leap into systems and processes, Maryjo insists that everything should begin with culture and purpose. Kyndryl first articulated the culture they wanted to be by conducting research with customers and employees to distill the company’s values. These values of kinship, growth, restlessness, empathy, and devotion to shared success shaped the Kyndryl way and anchored every subsequent transformation, from talent architecture to performance management.

Shaping the Workforce with Skills Data—Not Just Headcount

Maryjo describes her central CHRO responsibility as keeping as many people employed as possible through responsible enterprise stewardship. That means managing the direct workforce and aggressively addressing contractor and vended labor. Instead of allowing easy backdoor entry for outsourced services when headcount was reduced, Kyndryl prioritized retraining and reallocating internal employees—a strategy that cut the vended workforce by 50% and drove up redeployment to nearly 80%.

Critical to this approach was creating a unifying global job architecture and skills taxonomy, merging inventory across employees, contractors, and service vendors. This required overcoming system fragmentation and forging new alliances with procurement, IT, and legal to track all labor, however it came in, and create transparency across all workstreams.

From Data Layers to Business Impact

While a single-pane-of-glass HR system was the dream for Maryjo, the reality meant integrating financial, HR, procurement, and vendor management systems and building semantic layers that could track, reconcile, and translate skill data at scale. No single software suite could do it all, so success depended on building partnerships with IT and developing custom layers, predictive tools, and AI agents for matching talent to customer needs.

Kyndryl anchored its use of AI in solving real business and customer problems rather than tracking individual productivity. The most important thing is to have someone ready to go with the skills that the customer needs to do that piece of work.

 Resources & People MentionedEightfold
SkyHive
TechWolf
Workday
Dave Ulrich 

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Maryjo Charbonnier on LinkedIn 

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Artificial intelligence is transforming not just our workplaces, but the very nature of education and professional development. Our guest this week, Michael Noble, Vice President of Academic Program Development at Western Governors University (WGU), shares his views on how higher education can rise to the current moment, bridging the gap between academic learning, employable skills, and the changing needs of the workforce. We also dig into how WGU’s innovative approach might become a template for organizations and educational institutions navigating the AI era. 

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[00:00] Upskilling entry-level talent with AI
[03:59] Integrating liberal arts with tech skills
[09:34] Discussing higher education trends
[15:36] Creating personalized skill-based curriculums
[26:13] Leveraging WGU's alumni network
[29:14] Challenges in employee development
[31:43] Impact of AI on job training
[35:17] Integrating philosophy into the curriculum
[48:40] Specialization vs. flexibility
[55:28] Finding fulfillment through creative work

From Degree to Competency

Higher education is experiencing a moment of reckoning around its relevance for today's job market. Traditional models have long focused on grades and credit hours, but WGU centers its model on competency-based education. Students demonstrate mastery of validated competencies—skills verified through rigorous assessment, rather than simply accumulating classroom hours or participation credits. This approach better aligns with employer demands, emphasizing what learners can actually do rather than what they have passively experienced.

WGU’s adaptability has enabled it to cater to working adults seeking career advancement, and to students entering directly from high school, who now make up over 40% of its enrollment. By focusing on practical skills and direct assessment, WGU is closing the gap between academic learning and the immediate needs of employers, allowing for more individualized and efficient upskilling.

The Power and Challenge of University-Corporate Partnerships

With AI and automation taking over many entry-level tasks, companies and universities face a new imperative: how do we prepare new hires for roles that require immediate impact and advanced judgment, skipping the traditional ramp-up provided by routine tasks? We discuss WGU’s partnerships with companies like CVS Health, where tailored programs help pharmacy techs advance within the organization and are supported by real-time competency and skills data.

Internships, micro-internships, and simulated externships emerged as critical solutions for giving students hands-on, relevant experience. Aligning incentives between corporations seeking skilled workers and universities eager to prove their graduates’ real-world readiness could radically reshape how both sectors approach workforce entry.

AI as a Catalyst for Change in Learning and Development

AI isn’t just changing what skills are needed, but how learning itself happens. WGU is embracing AI-native tools—virtual assistants for students, personalized learning feedback, and AI-assisted evaluation—to both scale quality learning and support the work of instructors and curriculum developers.

This technological shift is also transforming the structure of learning and development teams. Specialists are becoming “augmented generalists,” using AI tools to speed up design, delivery, and personalization, but the need for deep expertise and sound judgment remains crucial. Just because something looks polished doesn’t mean it’s fully accurate or effective.
Recognizing that many students lack the networking advantages of elite institutions, WGU is using its growing alumni network, piloting programs that help students connect with industry veterans, and offering achievement “wallets” to showcase their skills and experiences—key ingredients in leveling the playing field for career advancement.

 Resources & People Mentioned

Office of the President Scott Pulsipher 
Bryan Alexander: Georgetown University 
Ruth Bader Ginsburg
Midwest Innocence Project 

Connect with Michael Noble

Michael Noble on LinkedIn 

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Website: RedThread Research
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Learning and Development (L&D) is at a crossroads. As artificial intelligence (AI) accelerates changes in the workplace, L&D’s traditional stronghold—the creation and curation of content—is rapidly losing its strategic value. In this episode, I discuss the rapidly evolving intersection of AI and Learning & Development (L&D) with Don Taylor and Egla Vinauskaite. Our conversation explores how the AI “on ramp” has disappeared, leaving many L&D organizations feeling left behind, and highlights the importance of direction, not just decision, for real transformation.  

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[05:56] Early years of AI in L&D
[08:16] Adapting to AI in Industry
[18:44] Technological turmoil and AI evolution
[20:29] Challenges in transforming organizations
[25:40] Decision-making and organizational hierarchy
[28:59] Importance of fieldwork and presence
[37:42] Understanding Drag in L and D
[46:49] Role of a Leader in Change
[53:40] Activating independent organizational growth

The Vanishing ‘On-Ramp’ and the Challenge of Catching Up

The rapid evolution of AI in the workplace has created a new sense of urgency for L&D teams. In 2023, everyone was at the same starting line, experimenting with generative AI tools for the first time. Now, the landscape has shifted dramatically, with advanced conversations moving toward AI agents and full-scale workforce transformation. Those who didn’t jump on the AI bandwagon early are finding it increasingly difficult to catch up, with the “on-ramp” to entry effectively gone for newcomers. This sense of inaccessibility is causing some people to self-select out of L&D entirely, feeling left behind by the accelerating pace of change.

The Disappearing Content Moat

For years, L&D has built its identity around its expertise in content creation—the so-called “moat” that protects its value. But the rise of AI has reduced the barriers to creating effective learning content. Anyone can now create quality resources with minimal expertise, eroding the unique advantage L&D once held. Content can no longer be the cornerstone of L&D’s strategy. Instead, L&D needs to determine its new value proposition in a world where content is ubiquitous.

The Transformation Triangle

The Transformation Triangle proposes three potential futures for L&D organizations.

Skills Authority: Organizations that pursue this path become the go-to stewards for everything related to skills in the business—tracking what skills exist, what’s needed, and how to develop them. They treat skills as a critical business asset and ensure the organization stays competitive by closing gaps efficiently.

Enablement Partner: Acting as connectors rather than creators, these organizations focus on surfacing, amplifying, and distributing the expertise already embedded within the workforce. Their role is to ensure knowledge flows efficiently where it’s needed to elevate performance organization-wide.

Adaptation Engine: The most transformative model, these teams see themselves as stewards of organizational adaptability. They diagnose and address performance issues as complex systems problems—sometimes solving them through learning, but often intervening through process or tool changes to maximize business impact.

None of these are final destinations—organizations may move between them, combine elements, or adapt over time.

Overcoming Structural, Cultural, and Capability Drag

Achieving escape velocity from the gravitational pull of content-focused L&D isn’t easy. In the conversation, we identify three types of “drag” that hold teams back:

Structural drag: Where L&D sits in the org chart and its direct authority.
Cultural drag: Long-standing perceptions of L&D’s role as content creators.
Capability drag: Skills and mindsets required to operate in new, more impactful ways.

Successfully overcoming these drags and embedding new models into systems and infrastructure. ensures changes stick even as leaders come and go.

 Resources & People Mentioned

Learning Technologies in the Workplace by Don Taylor
Claude Code
Claude Cowork
Microsoft Copilot
One of Each | Newsletter by Nodes
Global Sentiment Survey

Connect with Don Taylor & Egle Vinauskaite

Egle Vinauskaite on LinkedIn 
Don Taylor on LinkedIn 

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Organizational change is now a constant rather than a phase. Few stories illustrate this better than Hearst Networks’ journey, as shared by Dean Possenniskie, CEO, and Lucy King, Chief People Officer, on this episode of Workplace Stories. Moving from a legacy cable business into a diversified, higher-margin media powerhouse, Hearst proves that reinvention is possible not just for startups but for well-established companies with deep roots and long histories.

Hearst, an organization with a legacy and heritage, and a willingness to continually reinvent itself, has adopted the “phoenix” metaphor to frame its transformation. They’ve made hard choices, like closing brands, exiting joint ventures, and even shutting offices, before expanding into new partnerships with giants like Sky, Amazon, Apple, and YouTube.
 
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[07:59] Working in HR during transformations
[12:36] Transitioning to full Hearst ownership
[18:29] Crafting a purpose statement
[21:12] Why it pays to implement a coaching mindset
[25:30] Investing in learning and development
[32:11] Defining company values and culture
[37:08] Improving profitability and growth focus
[39:16] Valuing autonomy and trust at Hearst
[44:15] Encouraging innovation company-wide
[47:14] Balancing governance with creative autonomy

Culture at the Core

Culture is often seen as a soft layer, a set of values on a wall, or the flavor of the latest offsite. Dean Possenniskie and Lucy King see it differently: culture had to be the engine of transformation, integral to performance and strategy. One of Dean’s earliest moves was to reposition the people and culture function away from finance, placing it directly alongside the CEO—a signal of culture’s importance as a business driver.

The results speak for themselves. While revenues declined 20%, margins grew by more than 40%, and internal workplace surveys saw “great place to work” scores leap from 53% to over 80%. This wasn’t about being “nice,” but about creating a place where people could do their best work, take risks, and feel empowered.

Building Change Muscle

A core tenet of Hearst’s approach to transformation was empowerment at every level. Lucy describes removing archaic performance systems and replacing them with coaching-centered one-to-ones, helping managers foster a sense of ownership, capability, and resilience in their teams. The organization invested in professional coaching for anyone, at any level, who requested it, a significant commitment, but one tailored for maximum impact rather than blanket sameness.

This was complemented with mentoring, leveraging technology to link senior leaders with mentees across the company. This “bottom-up” ethos even shaped their AI and technology adoption: rather than mandating tools from the top, creative, programming, and scheduling teams were given room to experiment and bring forward the solutions that actually worked for them.

The Power of Purpose and the “Deal”

Change is unsettling, and ambiguity can erode trust. To anchor their people, the leadership spent months articulating a purpose statement—a north star for decision-making and daily work. More boldly, they introduced “our deal,” a written two-way document explaining not just what the company expected from employees, but what employees could expect in return: support, development, and clear direction.

Dean describes this as adult-to-adult relationship building. It’s about empowering personal leadership and ownership, backed by transparent communication—even when delivering hard messages or acknowledging failures. As they say, “we learn fast, not fail fast.”

 Resources & People Mentioned
About - HEARST
Leave Something on the Table: and Other Surprising Lessons for Success in Business and in Life by Frank Bennack 
The Problem with Change: And the Essential Nature of Human Performance Kindle Edition by Ashley Goodall 
Understand the network dynamics of culture
'Sapiens' by Yuval Noah Harari

Connect with Lucy King and Dean Possenniskie
Lucy King | Hearst Networks EMEA
 Dean Possenniskie | Hearst Networks EMEA 
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Website: RedThread Research
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