Inside Education - a podcast for educators interested in teaching

• Inside Education 434, History of Model Schools with Joe Doyle (24-12-24)

  Presented and produced by Seán Delaney. On this week's episode, we delve into the history of Irish education in the 1800s to learn about an ambitious attempt to educate teachers by co-locating theory and practice. We look at the rise and fall of model schools as a means of teacher training. My guest is retired primary school teacher and principal, Dr. Joe Doyle who recently published Model Schools - Model Teachers? A nineteenth-century Irish teacher-training initiative. Among the topics we cover are: Being prompted to study the topic by William Murphy, a fellow member of Dúchas – the Tullaherin Heritage Society that produces a journal titled In the Shadow of the Steeple. Being bowled over by the amount of information that was available to access in the National Archives of Ireland. He chose history as his academic subject when he studied for the Bachelor of Education degree in the early 1990s (a truncated course awarded to those who had the National Teacher (NT) qualification before the B.Ed. degree was introduced). His first scholarly foray into history and education was an account of education in the Thomastown area in the nineteenth century. Having expressed interest in pursuing his studies in the history of education, he was invited to meet with the late Professor John Coolahan, previously a guest on episode 10 and episode 253 to discuss the matter. His initial interest was in Kilkenny schools which had landlord patronage in the 1800s. However, Professor Coolahan persuaded him to pursue what he saw as a more fruitful topic, about cooperation in Kilkenny school management between 1831 and 1870. Winning a millennium scholarship in St. Patrick’s College where he was advised by Professor James Kelly on the topic of model schools. What model schools in Ireland were (built in the 1840s, 1850s and 1860s). They consisted of 19 District Model Schools, 7 Minor Model Schools and 3 others: the central model school, West Dublin, and Inchicore. The central model school was a fully fledged institution for preparing teachers but a wider network was needed to achieve the aim of preparing sufficient teachers for the entire national school system. They combined teacher education with education of young schoolchildren. The Kildare Place Society received Government grant aid from 1811 on the basis that one of their principles was that they were there for people of all religions. They provided short courses for practising teachers, who would previously had had minimal preparation for their roles. The Kildare Place Society was promoting the (quite rigid) Monitorial system developed by Joseph Lancaster. Training took place for implementing that system and for organisation and keeping school records. This was a system whereby one teacher, assisted by capable pupils, could supervise up to 500 children. Hedge schools mostly taught the three Rs and did not have Irish although some variations may have been present. He refers to Brennan’s Schools of Kildare and Leighlin. Here is a link to a talk by Dr. Antonia McManus on hedge schools in Ireland and here is a link to a book she wrote on the topic. The difference between district model schools and minor model schools (the latter did not have student teachers in residence there). The retention rate of teachers who were prepared in model schools was around 30%. The pay was poor and many of the students used it as a way of getting a good intermediate education and went on to work in the civil service or in a bank. More presybyterians and Anglican teachers than Roman Catholic teachers were prepared. He acknowledges the work of Emmet Larkin in understanding the Catholic Church in the nineteenth century. Archbishop Paul Cullen initially focused on sorting out problems among Roman Catholic clergy in the Dublin Diocese before becoming interested in the model schools. He was opposed to the model schools because they were non-denominational. From 1863, any Catholic trained in a model school would not be employed in a national school under Catholic management. Some information about the Powis commission is available on pages 22-23 of this doctoral thesis. How preparation of Catholic and Protestant teachers became segregated in Ireland. A description of a typical day for student teachers in a model school. Sources of information for the history of Irish education: Annual Reports (include a section on model schools), Government inquiries late 1830s on the practical working of the National System), 1854 (substantial report), 1870 (Powis Commission – 10 volumes; report and minutes of evidence and statistical part). ED1 reports – initial applications for setting up national schools). ED2 reports (registers – dealings of Board of Education with individual schools – a lot of detail when things go wrong); ED9 reports (specific reports that arose between the school and the Board of Education); ED3 files used to report on model schools. All in the National Archives. Minutes of commissioners’ of national education and kept in the manuscript room of the National library. The minutes generally are a bit formulaic. Some national schools still have their own records. The experience of working as a research student supervised by Professor John Coolahan. Irish Education: Its history and structure by John Coolahan. The Irish Education Experiment by Donald Akenson. Joe’s book is titled Model schools – model teachers? A nineteenth-century Irish teacher-training initiative. The dust jacket of the book was designed by Terry Bannon and it was printed by Naas Printing.  

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• Inside Education 433, Professor Sonia Cabell on Literacy Education in the Early Years and More (17-12-24)

  Presented and produced by Seán Delaney. On this week's podcast I speak to Professor Sonia Cabell who is an associate professor of Reading Education in the School of Teacher Education and the Florida Center for Reading Research at Florida State University. She was a keynote speaker at the Literacy Association of Ireland conference on 9 November 2024. Among the topics we discussed are the following: How Marcia Invernizzi, co-author of Words their Way introduced her to the idea of doing a doctorate. Laura Justice was her dissertation adviser. She became interested in preventing reading difficulties through interventions in the pre-school to second grade years. More teachers today are consulting original research on literacy than twenty or twenty-five years ago. “If you know better, then you do better.” Teacher education programmes frequently don’t teach student teachers how to consume research. An important trait for teachers to develop is to be curious about what the evidence says about “this” practice and being open to what the evidence says as reported in trusted journals that translate the research well. She recommends The Reading Teacher and The Reading League Journal as sources of accessible reliable information for teachers. She likes Scholastic’s The Science of Reading in Practice series. Don’t make one person a guru. Listen to different voices and compare them. Jeanne Chall refers to the transition of “learning to read to reading to learn” as a stage of development and not as a way to intervene (in the teaching of reading). A good eight-year-old reader would be decoding fluently (their grasp of the alphabetic code continues to increase) so they can focus their attention on what the text means and they should be continuing to develop fluency in their oral reading. Scarborough’s Reading Rope. Strands of language comprehension: Background knowledge, perceptive and expressive vocabulary, verbal reasoning (inferential thinking and abstract thinking), language structures (syntax), and literacy knowledge (understanding different kinds of genres). John Guthrie’s work on Concept-Oriented Reading Instruction. James S. Kim of Harvard University and his (Model of Reading Engagement) MORE assessment. The inextricable link between knowledge and oral language skills and can be built together in young children. In the interactive read-aloud context you are exposing children to the formal language of books, which is critical because of the formal language structure of books (syntax and vocabulary). How to Teach Your Baby to Read By Glenn Doman. Self productivity by Cunha and Heckman. It’s not just where you start in pre-school that counts but the rate of skill growth in oral language and decoding and subsequent writing; skills beget skills in early literacy. “Our ability to read becomes really stable, really early.” “There is power in setting the stage and setting the stage early.” She would like to see all teachers, including early years teachers, getting the respect and professionalism they deserve Her realisation of the importance of oral language. The “strive for five” framework, developed with Tricia Zucker. How do we help teachers have conversations with students that are meaningful and that expand students’ language in ways. Teacher asks an open-ended question (turn 1) Student responds Teacher can scaffold upwards and provide more challenge through another question or scaffolds downwards, and use an either/or question or similar. This third step is the most critical turn in the sequence. Student responds Teacher wraps it up Revoicing Phrase “Strive for Five” was coined by David Dickinson When implementing the CHAT programme (Children and Teachers together led by Laura Justice) When teachers tried to become conversationally responsive partners, teachers could change some aspects of their language use but the things that were more difficult to change were some of the most important aspects that needed to change. The Learning Language and Loving It program from The Hanen Center. Pre-K on My Way from Scholastic. When you give children and teachers something to talk about, you can build their language more easily. Science lends itself to disciplinary language and to meaningful ideas. Promotion of comprehension is all in children’s oral language skills. Both knowledge and comprehension strategies are important. Monitoring comprehension is also important. It is important for parents to read to children and to talk about what they’re reading and viewing things together. We learn language through warm and responsive relationship. This applies in the home and in school (especially in the early grades). Dr. Bob Pianta has studied this area. He created the classroom assessment scoring system. The interactions must be combined with explicit literacy teaching. How mothers’ impact on literacy has been studied more than the impact of fathers. Criteria she uses when selecting texts to read aloud in school: Begin with your purpose (e.g. building knowledge and language). Why she likes The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein and The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis. How she carries out her (mostly quantitative) research: randomised control trials (Core knowledge language arts programme Tricia Zucker from the University of Texas), observational studies, and survey research. How she organises a randomised control trial in education. Her research is funded by the Institute of Education Sciences. Other sources of funding in the United States include the National Institutes of Health and the National Science foundation. Who educational research is for and how it helps. Research in early years literacy today needs to go beyond what works to why it works and who it works for. A researcher shouldn’t be trying to prove themselves right but to prove themselves wrong. Shayne Piasta, Ohio State University suggests having a journal of null effects. Writing is central to what she does. She feels like she has not worked for a day until she has pushed forward a manuscript for publication. If it’s about finding time to write, it will never happen! She is a writer as part of what she does and she builds around that. She stacks meetings and schedules no meetings before noon. She was influenced by the work of Linnea Ehri and Susan Neuman. This article about the impact of a content rich literacy curriculum is now available freely online.

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• Inside Education 432, Children's Voice and Public Speaking with Siobhán Keenan Fitzgerald (1-10-24)

  Presented and produced by Seán Delaney. This week on the podcast I speak again to Dr. Siobhán Keenan Fitzgerald whose book Listen: How Child and Student Voice Can Change the World has just been published by Routledge. Among the topics we discussed are: Among the topics were discussed were: Connecting to a network of Changemaker schools Getting interested in outdoor education inspired by a colleague who did Forest school training. Travelling as part of the Erasmus+ programme. Learning about peer mediation and the Student Council in Donabate Educate Together National School. The process of becoming recognised as a changemaker school. Studying for a doctorate on public speaking in primary school (focusing on self-efficacy and vocabulary development). She used the work of Albert Bandura. The paucity of research on public speaking in primary schools. The connection between children expressing their voices and public speaking Children have opportunities to practise public speaking in team sports settings, in church and in school-related events (e.g. science fair). How teachers already recognise student voice in their classrooms (e.g. taking children’s interests and likes into account, in discussions, circle-time activities, rotating class-captain roles, and in choosing pedagogies to promote learning). How Siobhán’s school developed the role of play leader, that rotates weekly. Play leaders keep an eye out for younger children, to bring out equipment at break times and ensure it is distributed fairly, push younger children on the swings, and helping children sort out issues themselves without involving adults. That which is most personal is most universal – why storytelling is a form of public speaking. Matthew Dicks and his ideas of “homework for life” and how this might help children find their personal voice. Limits on children expressing their voice. Creating a safe space for children speaking in public and involving students in co-creating the rules around it. Who the book Listen: How child and student voice can change the world is written for. How those who get to speak publicly tend to be the privileged in society Shy or reluctant speakers may need additional scaffolding to be encouraged to speak in public. This may include children with speech and language delays or difficulties, children with other additional needs and children for whom English is not their first language. What she learned from writing the book:  finding two extra hours in each day between 6 and 8 a.m. Teachers who want to write a book: If not you, then who? If not now, then when? Reach out! The Comfort Crisis, a book by Michael Easter was mentioned. She mentioned podcasts she likes including The Rethinking Education podcast by James Mannion; The Teach Middle East podcast with Christina Morris; and the Lead the Way podcast with Ann Byrne was mentioned. School 21 in London Her YouTube Channel.

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  1:08:16
• Inside Education 431, Patrick Burke on Literacy Education and More (22-9-24)

  Presented and produced by Seán Delaney. On this week's programme I am delighted to be joined by Dr. Patrick Burke from Dublin City University's School of Language, Literacy and Early Childhood Education. Among the topics discussed were: Differences between the primary school he attended and the school where he began his teaching career. How he became interested in the teaching of literacy. Being awarded a fellowship to study at Frostburg State University in 2013-2014. Working in the Children’s Literature Centre at Frostburg State-wide bans on children’s books in the United States. Choosing literature for children (Quirkiness, visuals of picture books, morals (not moralising) and thoughts on the importance of writing quality in children’s literature. Science of reading about how you research reading and the components and guidance that come from that. Why the science of reading can inform some, not all, of our decisions about teaching reading. The influence of the science of reading on initial teacher education. The importance of basing decision on research evidence (where it is available). How teachers develop their professional knowledge: the difference between mandated webinars and those chosen by teachers; allowing for diversity and pluralism in the professional development in-service teachers engage in; social media and professional development; individual versus collaborative approaches to professional development. Ways to accredit continuous professional development for teachers. Curriculum integration is influenced by factors such as the subject you’re integrating, whether you start with the subject or with a question. The pre-cursor question concerns what we want children to learn and whether some form of integration will benefit that. Depending on the answer to that question, curriculum integration may or may not be a good thing. Publications: https://ncca.ie/media/6370/conceptualising-curriculum-integration.pdf (Report) and the annexes summarising studies are here: https://ncca.ie/media/6368/annex-1-conceptualising-curriculum-integration.pdf and https://ncca.ie/media/6369/annex-2-weaving-the-literature-on-integration-pedagogy-and-assessment.pdf. Find out more about the negotiated curriculum in this article and about Beane’s work in the NCCA report. Balancing a disciplinary approach with a curriculum approach. Patrick’s doctoral dissertation about disciplinary writing. The overall message of the dissertation is “Literacy integration is important but not easily achieved…if you want to do it well.” He mentions the work of Sam Wineburg and the credibility of online content. The importance of partnerships between schools, teachers and teacher educators in conducting and implementing education research. This raises questions around where research is done and who it’s done for and how teachers are involved in it The importance of conducting and sharing small-scale action research done by teachers in their classrooms. Student teachers need to be introduced to diverse forms of educational research in their undergraduate education. A (rare) randomised controlled trial conducted in primary education in Ireland on the topic of Minecraft and spatial awareness. Being a DCU Co-Principal Investigator (with Dr Eithne Kennedy) for the exploratory Erasmus+ funded Artificial Intelligence in Literacy (AILIT) project. Scholarly engagement with social media and traditional media. Gert Biesta’s purposes of education: Qualification, socialisation, subjectification. Learning about kindness in teacher-student relationships from Dr. William Bingman Nell Duke is his go-to expert on literacy education. His profile page in DCU: https://www.dcu.ie/languageliteracyandearlychildhoodeducation/people/dr-patrick-burke.

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  1:08:02
• Inside Education 430, Perry Share on Artificial Intelligence and the Future of Teaching (4-6-24)

  Presented and produced by Seán Delaney. On this week's podcast my guest is Perry Share, who is Head of Student Success at Atlantic Technological University. Among the topics we discuss are: The impact of taking a module with Hilary Tovey on rural sociology and a module with Brian Torode and Barbara Bradby on language, discourse and French theory. Perry’s belief that artificial intelligence is a catalyst that helps us better understand and question contemporary practices around teaching, learning and assessment. Artificial intelligence forces us to ask questions like "What does it mean to assess students?" "How can we teach in ways that are engaging and productive for students?" In education, the arts and the humanities, we take text as a representation of what is in students’ heads and tend to make assumptions about the knowledge, understanding or learning held by the student. The foundation is taken out of this when we don’t know where the text comes from. Problems are outlined with the take-home assignment, oral assessments and standard written exams but the “unsolvable” problems may constitute a productive space for educators. The likes of ChatGPT can be used effectively in fields where you have knowledge. An area of concern in higher education is in relation to fields where people are just beginning to acquire knowledge and understanding. In addition, artificial intelligence threatens opportunities to learn on internships in professional placements. Perhaps the role of “learned” knowledge becomes increasingly important for novices in a field whereas in recent years the importance of critical thinking has been lauded. It is likely that resources will need to shift from activities we currently value to new – yet-to-be-determined – resources at secondary and higher education levels. What prompt engineering is. Ethan Mollick’s book Co-Intelligence.  Examples of good and not-so-good prompts. How Perry is using ChatGPT in his own work: summarising large documents; combining documents; Brainstorming; Outlining a proposed structure of a document or presentation. It has been used for computer programming and other tasks. Data protection implications may need to be considered in relation to some uses. In the future it may be used to grade and provide feedback for public exams. Various kinds of data on the results would be available almost immediately. Decline in language learning in many countries due to the dominance of English and due to the availability of translation tools. The days of the academic essay may be numbered. Simulations may be a future direction of assessment in professional settings but these too are not without complications. Can we avoid interacting with artificial intelligence? Impact on equity in education. If students can teach themselves, where does that leave the teacher? There is a job of imagination for teachers to start thinking about how they will work alongside artificial intelligence. The impact of artificial intelligence on what (and who) we can trust. People Perry respects on the topic of artificial intelligence: Anna Mills, a lecturer in academic writing in the United States; Charles Knight who works for Advance HE; Maha Bali at the America University of Cairo on critical artificial intelligence (environmental, commercial and ethical impacts). The purpose of school. Daryl Nation Raewyn Connell’s book The Good University. Perry's own expanding list of resources on artificial intelligence is available here.

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