It's not pipes and slippers
Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter or Bluesky for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 23rd July 2025. The winner will be contacted via Bluesky. Show references: Sam Mullins, Trustee at SS Great Britainhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/sammullins/https://www.ssgreatbritain.org/ Transcriptions: Paul Marden: What an amazing day out here. Welcome to Skip the Queue. The podcast for people working in and working with visitor attractions, I'm your host, Paul Marden, and today you join me for the last episode of the season here in a very sunny and very pleasant Bristol Dockyard. I'm here to visit the SS Great Britain and one of their trustees, Sam Mullins, who until recently, was the CEO of London Transport Museum. And I'm going to be talking to Sam about life after running a big, family friendly Museum in the centre of London, and what comes next, and I'm promising you it's not pipes and the slippers for Sam, he's been very busy with the SSGreat Britain and with other projects that we'll talk a little more about. But for now, I'm going to enjoy poodling across the harbour on boat number five awaiting arrival over at the SS Great Britain. Paul Marden: Is there much to catch in the water here?Sam Mullins: According to some research, there's about 36 different species of fish. They catch a lot of cream. They catch Roach, bullet, bass car. Big carpet there, maybe, yeah, huge carpet there. And then your European great eel is here as well, right? Yeah, massive things by the size of your leg, big heads. It's amazing. It goes to show how receipt your life is. The quality of the water is a lot better now. Paul Marden: Oh yeah, yeah, it's better than it used to be years ago. Thank you very much. All right. Cheers. Have a good day. See you later on. So without further ado, let's head inside. So where should we head? Too fast. Sam Mullins: So we start with the stern of the ship, which is the kind of classic entrance view, you know. Yeah, coming up, I do. I love the shape of this ship as you as you'll see.Paul Marden: So lovely being able to come across the water on the boat and then have this as you're welcome. It's quite a.Sam Mullins: It's a great spot. Isn't it?Paul Marden: Really impactful, isn't it? Sam Mullins: Because the amazing thing is that it's going this way, is actually in the dry dock, which was built to build it. Paul Marden: That's amazing. Sam Mullins: So it came home. It was clearly meant to be, you know,Paul Marden: Quite the circular story.Sam Mullins: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Paul Marden: Thank you. Wow. Look at that view.Sam Mullins: So that's your classic view.Paul Marden: So she's in a dry dock, but there's a little bit of water in there, just to give us an idea of what's going on. Sam Mullins: Well, what's actually going on in here is, preserving the world's first iron ship. So it became clear, after he'd come back from the Falklands, 1970 came back to Bristol, it became clear that the material of the ship was rusting away. And if something wasn't done, there'd be nothing left, nothing left to show. So the innovative solution is based on a little bit of science if you can reduce the relative humidity of the air around the cast iron hull of the ship to around about 20% relative humidity, corrosion stops. Rusting stops. It's in a dry dock. You glaze over the dock at kind of water line, which, as you just noticed, it gives it a really nice setting. It looks like it's floating, yeah, it also it means that you can then control the air underneath. You dry it out, you dehumidify it. Big plant that dries out the air. You keep it at 20% and you keep the ship intact. Paul Marden: It's interesting, isn't it, because you go to Mary Rose, and you go into the ship Hall, and you've got this hermetically sealed environment that you can maintain all of these beautiful Tudor wooden pieces we're outside on a baking hot day. You don't have the benefit of a hermetically sealed building, do you to keep this? Sam Mullins: I guess the outside of the ship is kind of sealed by the paint. That stops the air getting to the bit to the bare metal. We can go down into the trigger, down whilst rise up.Paul Marden: We're wondering. Sam, yeah, why don't you introduce yourself, tell listeners a little bit about your background. How have we ended up having this conversation today.Sam Mullins: I'm Sam Mullins. I'm a historian. I decided early on that I wanted to be a historian that worked in museums and had an opportunity to kind of share my fascination with the past with museum visitors. So I worked in much Wenlock in Shropshire. I worked created a new museum in market Harbour, a community museum in Leicestershire. I was director of museums in St Albans, based on, you know, great Roman Museum at Verulamium, okay. And ended up at London Transport Museum in the 90s, and was directed there for a long time.Paul Marden: Indeed, indeed. Oh, we are inside now and heading underground.Sam Mullins: And you can hear the thrumming in the background. Is the dehumidification going on. Wow. So we're descending into thevery dry dock.Paul Marden: So we're now under water level. Yes, and the view of the ceiling with the glass roof, which above looked like a lovely little pond, it's just beautiful, isn't it?Sam Mullins: Yes, good. It sets it off both in both directions, really nicely.Paul Marden: So you've transitioned now, you've moved on from the Transport Museum. And I thought that today's episode, we could focus a little bit on what is, what's life like when you've moved on from being the director of a big, famous, influential, family friendly Museum. What comes next? Is it pipe and slippers, or are there lots of things to do? And I think it's the latter, isn't it? Sam Mullins: Yes. Well, you know, I think people retire either, you know, do nothing and play golf, or they build, you know, an interesting portfolio. I wanted to build, you know, something a bit more interesting. And, you know, Paul, there's that kind of strange feeling when you get to retire. And I was retiring from full time executive work, you kind of feel at that point that you've just cracked the job. And at that point, you know, someone gives you, you know, gives you a card and says, "Thank you very much, you've done a lovely job." Kind of, "Off you go." So having the opportunity to deploy some of that long term experience of running a successful Museum in Covent Garden for other organisations was part of that process of transition. I've been writing a book about which I'm sure we'll talk as well that's been kind of full on this year, but I was a trustee here for a number of years before I retired. I think it's really good career development for people to serve on a board to see what it's like, you know, the other side of the board. Paul Marden: I think we'll come back to that in a minute and talk a little bit about how the sausage is made. Yeah, we have to do some icebreaker questions, because I probably get you already. You're ready to start talking, but I'm gonna, I'm just gonna loosen you up a little bit, a couple of easy ones. You're sat in front of the telly, comedy or drama?Sam Mullins: It depends. Probably.Paul Marden: It's not a valid answer. Sam Mullins: Probably, probably drama.Paul Marden: Okay, if you need to talk to somebody, is it a phone call or is it a text message that you'll send?Sam Mullins: Face to face? Okay, much better. Okay, always better. Paul Marden: Well done. You didn't accept the premise of the question there, did you? Lastly, if you're going to enter a room, would you prefer to have a personal theme tune played every time you enter the room. Or would you like a personal mascot to arrive fully suited behind you in every location you go to?Sam Mullins: I don't know what the second one means, so I go for the first one.Paul Marden: You've not seen a football mascot on watching American football or baseball?Sam Mullins: No, I try and avoid that. I like real sport. I like watching cricket. Paul Marden: They don't do that in cricket. So we are at the business end of the hull of the ship, aren't we? We're next to the propeller. Sam Mullins: We're sitting under the stern. We can still see that lovely, gilded Stern, saying, Great Britain, Bristol, and the windows and the coat of arms across the stern of the ship. Now this, of course, was the biggest ship in the world when built. So not only was it the first, first iron ship of any scale, but it was also third bigger than anything in the Royal Navy at the time. Paul Marden: They talked about that, when we were on the warrior aim the other day, that it was Brunel that was leading the way on what the pinnacle of engineering was like. It was not the Royal Navy who was convinced that it was sail that needed to lead. Sam Mullins: Yeah, Brunel had seen a much smaller, propeller driven vessel tried out, which was being toured around the country. And so they were midway through kind of design of this, when they decided it wasn't going to be a paddle steamer, which its predecessor, the world's first ocean liner, the Great Western. A was a paddle steamer that took you to New York. He decided that, and he announced to the board that he was going to make a ship that was driven by a propeller, which was the first, and this is, this is actually a replica of his patent propeller design. Paul Marden: So, this propeller was, is not the original to the show, okay?Sam Mullins: Later in its career, it had the engines taken out, and it was just a sailing ship. It had a long and interesting career. And for the time it was going to New York and back, and the time it was going to Australia and back, carrying migrants. It was a hybrid, usually. So you use the sails when it was favourable when it wasn't much wind or the wind was against. You use the use the engines. Use the steam engine.Paul Marden: Coming back into fashion again now, isn't it? Sam Mullins: Yeah, hybrid, yeah.Paul Marden: I can see holes in the hull. Was this evident when it was still in the Falklands?Sam Mullins: Yeah, it came to notice in the 60s that, you know, this world's first it was beached at Sparrow Cove in the Falkland Islands. It had lost its use as a wool warehouse, which is which it had been for 30 or 40 years. And a number of maritime historians, you and call it. It was the kind of key one realised that this, you know, extraordinary, important piece of maritime heritage would maybe not last too many war winters at Sparrow cope had a big crack down one side of the hull. It would have probably broken in half, and that would have made any kind of conservation restoration pretty well impossible as it was. It was a pretty amazing trick to put it onto a to put a barge underneath, to raise it up out of the water, and to tow it into Montevideo and then across the Atlantic, you know, 7000 miles, or whatever it is, to Avon mouth. So it's a kind of heroic story from the kind of heroic age of industrial and maritime heritage, actually.Paul Marden: It resonates for me in terms of the Mary Rose in that you've got a small group of very committed people that are looking to rescue this really valuable asset. And they find it and, you know, catch it just in time. Sam Mullins: Absolutely. That was one of the kind of eye openers for me at Mary rose last week, was just to look at the kind of sheer difficulty of doing conventional archaeology underwater for years and years. You know, is it 50,000 dives were made? Some immense number. And similarly, here, you know, lots of people kind of simply forget it, you know, it's never gonna, but a few, stuck to it, you know, formed a group, fund, raised. This is an era, of course, you know, before lottery and all that jazz. When you had to, you had to fundraise from the public to do this, and they managed to raise the money to bring it home, which, of course, is only step one. You then got to conserve this enormous lump of metal so it comes home to the dry dock in which it had been built, and that has a sort of fantastic symmetry, you know about it, which I just love. You know, the dock happened to be vacant, you know, in 1970 when the ship was taken off the pontoon at Avon mouth, just down the river and was towed up the curving Avon river to this dock. It came beneath the Clifton Suspension Bridge, which, of course, was Brunel design, but it was never built in his time. So these amazing pictures of this Hulk, in effect, coming up the river, towed by tugs and brought into the dock here with 1000s of people you know, surrounding cheering on the sidelines, and a bit like Mary Rose in a big coverage on the BBC.Paul Marden: This is the thing. So I have a very vivid memory of the Mary Rose being lifted, and that yellow of the scaffolding is just permanently etched in my brain about sitting on the carpet in primary school when the TV was rolled out, and it was the only TV in the whole of school that, to me is it's modern history happening. I'm a Somerset boy. I've been coming to Bristol all my life. I wasn't alive when Great Britain came back here. So to me, this feels like ancient history. It's always been in Bristol, because I have no memory of it returning home. It was always just a fixture. So when we were talking the other day and you mentioned it was brought back in the 70s, didn't realise that. Didn't realise that at all. Should we move on? Because I am listening. Gently in the warmth.Sam Mullins: Let's move around this side of the as you can see, the dry dock is not entirely dry, no, but nearly.Paul Marden: So, you're trustee here at SS Great Britain. What does that mean? What do you do?Sam Mullins: Well, the board, Board of Trustees is responsible for the governance of the charity. We employ the executives, the paid team here. We work with them to develop the kind of strategy, financial plan, to deliver that strategy, and we kind of hold them as executives to account, to deliver on that.Paul Marden: It's been a period of change for you, hasn't it? Just recently, you've got a new CEO coming to the first anniversary, or just past his first anniversary. It's been in place a little while.Sam Mullins: So in the last two years, we've had a, we've recruited a new chairman, new chief executive, pretty much a whole new leadership team.One more starting next month, right? Actually, we're in July this month, so, yeah, it's been, you know, organisations are like that. They can be very, you know, static for some time, and then suddenly a kind of big turnover. And people, you know, people move.Paul Marden: So we're walking through what is a curved part of the dry dock now. So this is becoming interesting underfoot, isn't it?Sam Mullins: This is built in 1839 by the Great Western Steamship Company to build a sister ship to the Great Western which was their first vessel built for the Atlantic run to New York. As it happens, they were going to build a similar size vessel, but Brunel had other ideas, always pushing the edges one way or another as an engineer.Paul Marden: The keel is wood. Is it all wood? Or is this some sort of?Sam Mullins: No, this is just like, it's sort of sacrificial.So that you know when, if it does run up against ground or whatever, you don't actually damage the iron keel.Paul Marden: Right. Okay, so there's lots happening for the museum and the trust. You've just had a big injection of cash, haven't you, to do some interesting things. So there was a press release a couple of weeks ago, about a million pound of investment. Did you go and find that down the back of the sofa? How do you generate that kind of investment in the charity?Sam Mullins: Unusually, I think that trust that's put the bulk of that money and came came to us. I think they were looking to do something to mark their kind of, I think to mark their wind up. And so that was quite fortuitous, because, as you know at the moment, you know, fundraising is is difficult. It's tough. Paul Marden: That's the understatement of the year, isn't it?Sam Mullins: And with a new team here and the New World post COVID, less, less visitors, income harder to gain from. Pretty well, you know, all sources, it's important to keep the site kind of fresh and interesting. You know, the ship has been here since 1970 it's become, it's part of Bristol. Wherever you go in Bristol, Brunel is, you know, kind of the brand, and yet many Bristolians think they've seen all this, and don't need, you know, don't need to come back again. So keeping the site fresh, keeping the ideas moving on, are really important. So we've got the dockyard museum just on the top there, and that's the object for fundraising at the moment, and that will open in July next year as an account of the building of the ship and its importance. Paul Marden: Indeed, that's interesting. Related to that, we know that trusts, trusts and grants income really tough to get. Everybody's fighting for a diminishing pot income from Ace or from government sources is also tough to find. At the moment, we're living off of budgets that haven't changed for 10 years, if we're lucky. Yeah, for many people, finding a commercial route is the answer for their museum. And that was something that you did quite successfully, wasn't it, at the Transport Museum was to bring commercial ideas without sacrificing the integrity of the museum. Yeah. How do you do that?Sam Mullins: Well, the business of being an independent Museum, I mean, LTM is a to all sets of purposes, an independent Museum. Yes, 81% of its funding itself is self generated. Paul Marden: Is it really? Yeah, yeah. I know. I would have thought the grant that you would get from London Transport might have been bigger than that. Sam Mullins: The grant used to be much bigger proportion, but it's got smaller and smaller. That's quite deliberate. Are, you know, the more you can stand on your own two feet, the more you can actually decide which direction you're going to take those feet in. Yeah. So there's this whole raft of museums, which, you know, across the UK, which are independently governed, who get all but nothing from central government. They might do a lottery grant. Yes, once in a while, they might get some NPO funding from Ace, but it's a tiny part, you know, of the whole. And this ship, SS Great Britain is a classic, you know, example of that. So what do you do in those circumstances? You look at your assets and you you try and monetise them. That's what we did at London Transport Museum. So the museum moved to Covent Garden in 1980 because it was a far sighted move. Michael Robbins, who was on the board at the time, recognised that they should take the museum from Scion Park, which is right on the west edge, into town where people were going to be, rather than trying to drag people out to the edge of London. So we've got that fantastic location, in effect, a high street shop. So retail works really well, you know, at Covent Garden.Paul Marden: Yeah, I know. I'm a sucker for a bit of moquette design.Sam Mullins: We all love it, which is just great. So the museum developed, you know, a lot of expertise in creating products and merchandising it. We've looked at the relationship with Transport for London, and we monetised that by looking at TFL supply chain and encouraging that supply chain to support the museum. So it is possible to get the TFL commissioner to stand up at a corporate members evening and say, you know, you all do terribly well out of our contract, we'd like you to support the museum as well, please. So the corporate membership scheme at Transport Museum is bigger than any other UK museum by value, really, 60, 65 members,. So that was, you know, that that was important, another way of looking at your assets, you know, what you've got. Sometimes you're talking about monetising relationships. Sometimes it's about, you know, stuff, assets, yeah. And then in we began to run a bit short of money in the kind of middle of the teens, and we did an experimental opening of the Aldwych disused tube station on the strand, and we're amazed at the demand for tickets.Paul Marden: Really, it was that much of a surprise for you. And we all can talk. Sam Mullins: We had been doing, we've been doing some guided tours there in a sort of, slightly in a one off kind of way, for some time. And we started to kind of think, well, look, maybe should we carry on it? Paul Marden: You've got the audience that's interested.Sam Mullins: And we've got the access through TFL which, you know, took a lot of work to to convince them we weren't going to, you know, take loads of people underground and lose them or that they jump out, you know, on the Piccadilly line in the middle of the service, or something. So hidden London is the kind of another really nice way where the museum's looked at its kind of assets and it's monetised. And I don't know what this I don't know what this year is, but I think there are now tours run at 10 different sites at different times. It's worth about half a million clear to them to the museum.Paul Marden: It's amazing, and they're such brilliant events. So they've now opened up for younger kids to go. So I took my daughter and one of her friends, and they were a little bit scared when the lights got turned off at one point, but we had a whale of a time going and learning about the history of the tube, the history of the tube during the war. It was such an interesting, accessible way to get to get them interested in stuff. It was brilliant.Sam Mullins: No, it's a great programme, and it was doing well before COVID, we went into lockdown, and within three weeks, Chris Nix and the team had started to do kind of zoom virtual tours. We all are stuck at home looking at our screens and those hidden London hangouts the audience kind of gradually built yesterday TV followed with secrets of London Underground, which did four series of. Hidden London book has sold 25,000 copies in hardback, another one to come out next year, maybe.Paul Marden: And all of this is in service of the museum. So it's almost as if you're opening the museum up to the whole of London, aren't you, and making all of that space you're you. Museum where you can do things.Sam Mullins: Yeah. And, of course, the great thing about hidden London programme is it's a bit like a theatre production. We would get access to a particular site for a month or six weeks. You'd sell the tickets, you know, like mad for that venue. And then the run came to an end, and you have to, you know, the caravan moves on, and we go to, you know, go to go to a different stations. So in a sense, often it's quite hard to get people to go to an attraction unless they've got visitors staying or whatever. But actually, if there's a time limit, you just kind of have to do it, you know.Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Everybody loves a little bit of scarcity, don't they? Sam Mullins: Should we go up on the deck? Paul Marden: That sounds like fun to me.Sam Mullins: Work our way through.Paul Marden: So Hidden London was one of the angles in order to make the museum more commercially sound. What are you taking from your time at LTM and bringing to the party here at the SS Great Britain?Sam Mullins: Well, asking similar, you know, range of questions really, about what assets do we have? Which of those are, can be, can be monetised in support of the charity? Got here, Paul, so we're, we've got the same mix as lots of middle sized museums here. There's a it's a shop, paid admission, hospitality events in the evening, cafe. You know that mix, what museums then need to do is kind of go, you know, go beyond that, really, and look at their estate or their intellectual property, or the kind of experiences they can offer, and work out whether some of that is monetisable.Paul Marden: Right? And you mentioned before that Brunel is kind of, he's the mascot of Bristol. Almost, everything in Bristol focuses on Brunel. Is there an opportunity for you to collaborate with other Brunel themed sites, the bridge or?Sam Mullins: Yeah. Well, I think probably the opportunity is to collaborate with other Bristol attractions. Because Bristol needs to. Bristol's having a hard time since COVID numbers here are nowhere near what they were pre COVID So, and I think it's the same in the city, across the city. So Andrew chief executive, is talking to other people in the city about how we can share programs, share marketing, that kind of approach.Paul Marden: Making the docks a destination, you know, you've got We the Curious. Where I was this morning, having coffee with a friend and having a mooch around. Yeah, talking about science and technology, there must be things that you can cross over. This was this war. This feels like history, but it wasn't when it was built, was it? It was absolutely the cutting edge of science and technology.Sam Mullins: Absolutely, and well, almost beyond, you know, he was Brunel was pushing, pushing what could be done. It is the biggest ship. And it's hard to think of it now, because, you know, you and I can walk from one end to the other in no time. But it was the biggest ship in the world by, you know, some way, when it was launched in 1845 so this was a bit like the Great Western Railway. It was cutting edge, cutting edge at the time, as we were talking about below. It had a propeller, radical stuff. It's got the bell, too,Paul Marden: When we were on, was it Warrior that we were on last week at the AIM conference for the first. And warrior had a propeller, but it was capable of being lifted, because the Admiralty wasn't convinced that this new fangled propeller nonsense, and they thought sail was going to lead. Sam Mullins: Yeah. Well, this ship had, you could lift a you could lift a propeller, because otherwise the propeller is a drag in the water if it's not turning over. So in its earlier configurations, it was a, it was that sort of a hybrid, where you could lift the propeller out the way, right, set full sail.Paul Marden: Right, and, yeah, it's just, it's very pleasant out here today, isn't it? Lovely breeze compared to what it's been like the last few days. Sam Mullins: Deck has just been replaced over the winter. Paul Marden: Oh, has it really. So say, have you got the original underneathSam Mullins: The original was little long, long gone. So what we have replaced was the deck that was put on in the in the 70s when the ship came back.Paul Marden: Right? You were talking earlier on about the cafe being one of the assets. You've done quite a lot of work recently, haven't you with the team at Elior to refurbish the cafe? What's the plan around that?Sam Mullins: Yeah, we're doing a big reinvestment. You always need to keep the offer fresh anyway, but it was time to reinvest. So the idea is to use that fantastic space on the edge of the dock. It's not very far down to where the floating harbour is really well populated with kind of restaurants and bars and an offer, we're just that 200 meters further along the dock. So perhaps to create an offer here that draws people up here, whether they visit the ship, you know, or not. So it's money, it's monetising your assets. So one of the great assets is this fabulous location on the on the dockside. So with early or we're reinvesting in the restaurant, it's going to go in the auto into after some trial openings and things, Paul, you know, it's going to have an evening offer as well as a daytime offer. And then it's been designed so the lights can go down in the evening. It becomes, you know, an evening place, rather than the museum's all day cafe, yes, and the offer, and obviously in the evenings would similarly change. And I think our ambition is that you should, you should choose this as the place to go out in the evening. Really, it's a great spot. It's a lovely, warm evening. We're going to walk along the dockside. I've booked a table and in the boardwalk, which is what we're calling it. And as you pay the bill, you notice that actually, this is associated with Asus, Great Britain. So, you know, the profit from tonight goes to help the charity, rather than it's the museum cafe. So that's the,Paul Marden: That's the pitch.Sam Mullins: That's the pitch in which we're working with our catering partners, Eli, or to deliver.Paul Marden: Andrew, your CEO and Claire from Eli, or have both kindly said that I can come back in a couple of months time and have a conversation about the restaurant. And I think it would be rude to turn them down, wouldn't it?Sam Mullins: I think you should test the menu really fully.Paul Marden: I will do my best. It's a tough job that I have. Sam Mullins: Somebody has to do this work. Paul Marden: I know, talking of tough jobs, the other thing that I saw when I was looking at the website earlier on was a press release talking about six o'clock gin as being a a partnership that you're investigating, because every museum needs its own tipple, doesn't it?Sam Mullins: Absolutely And what, you know, I think it's, I think what people want when they go to an attraction is they, they also want something of the offer to be locally sourced, completely, six o'clock gym, you know, Bristol, Bristol beers. You can't always do it, but I think, I think it's where you've got the opportunity. And Bristol's a bit of a foodie centre. There's quite a lot going on here in that respect. So, yes, of course, the museum ought to be ought to be doing that too.Paul Marden: I was very kindly invited to Big Pit over in the Welsh Valleys about 8 or 12 weeks ago for the launch, relaunch of their gift shop offering. And absolutely, at the core of what they were trying to do was because it's run by Museums Wales, they found that all of their gift shops were just a bland average of what you could get at any of the museums. None of them spoke of the individual place. So if you went to big pit, the gift shop looked the same as if you were in the centre of Cardiff, whereas now when you go you see things that are naturally of Big Pit and the surrounding areas. And I think that's so important to create a gift shop which has things that is affordable to everybody, but at the same time authentic and genuinely interesting.Sam Mullins: Yeah, I'm sure that's right. And you know I'm saying for you is for me, when I when I go somewhere, you want to come away with something, don't you? Yes, you know, you're a National Trust member and you haven't had to pay anything to get in. But you think I should be supporting the cause, you know, I want to go into that shop and then I want to, I want to buy some of the plants for my garden I just seen, you know, on the estate outside. Or I want to come away with a six o'clock gin or, you know, whatever it might be, there's and I think, I think you're more likely to buy if it's something that you know has engaged you, it's part of that story that's engaged you, right, while you're here. That's why everyone buys a guidebook and reads it afterwards.Paul Marden: Yeah, it's a reminder, isn't it, the enjoyable time that you've had? Yeah, I'm enjoying myself up on the top deck. Sam Mullins: But should we go downstairs? The bow is a great view. Oh, let's do that. I think we might. Let's just work our way down through.Paul Marden: Take a sniff. Could you travel with these smelly passengers? Oh, no, I don't think I want to smell what it's like to be a cow on board shit. Sam Mullins: Fresh milk. Just mind yourself on these companion, ways are very steep now. This is probably where I get completely lost.Paul Marden: You know what we need? We need a very good volunteer. Don't we tell a volunteer story? COVID in the kitchen. Wow. Sam Mullins: The Gabby.Paul Marden: Generous use of scent. Sam Mullins: Yeah, food laid out pretty much based on what we know was consumed on the ship. One of the great things about the ship is people kept diaries. A lot of people kept diaries, and many have survived, right? You know exactly what it was like to be in first class or in steerage down the back.Paul Marden: And so what was the ship used for? Sam Mullins: Well, it was used, it was going to be an ocean liner right from here to New York, and it was more like the Concord of its day. It was essentially first class and second class. And then it has a founders on a bay in Northern Ireland. It's rescued, fitted out again, and then the opportunity comes take people to Australia. The Gold Rush in the 1850s. Migration to Australia becomes the big kind of business opportunity for the ships. Ships new owners. So there's more people on board that used to it applies to and fro to Australia a number of times 30 odd, 40 times. And it takes, takes passengers. It takes goods. It does bring back, brings back gold from because people were there for the gold rush. They were bringing their earnings, you know, back with them. It also brings mail, and, you know, other. Kind of car goes wool was a big cargo from. Paul Marden: Say, people down and assets back up again.Sam Mullins: People both directions. Paul Marden: Okay, yeah. How long was it taking?Sam Mullins: Well, a good trip. I think it did it in 50 odd days. Bit slower was 60 odd. And the food was like this. So it was steerage. It was probably a bit more basic. Paul Marden: Yeah, yes, I can imagine. Sam Mullins: I think we might. Here's the engines. Let's do the engines well.Paul Marden: Yes. So now we're in the engine room and, oh, it's daylight lit, actually. So you're not down in the darkest of depths, but the propeller shaft and all of the mechanism is it runs full length, full height of the ship.Sam Mullins: Yeah, it runs off from here, back to the propeller that we're looking at. Okay, down there a guy's stoking the boilers, putting coal into into the boilers, 24 hour seven, when the engines are running. Paul Marden: Yes, that's going to be a tough job, isn't it? Yeah, coal is stored in particular locations. Because that was something I learned from warrior, was the importance of making sure that you had the coal taken in the correct places, so that you didn't unbalance the ship. I mean,Sam Mullins: You right. I mean loading the ship generally had to be done really carefully so, you know, sort of balanced out and so forth. Coal is tends to be pretty low down for yes, for obvious reasons.Paul Marden: So let's talk a little bit about being a trustee. We're both trustees of charities. I was talking to somebody last week who been in the sector for a number of years, mid career, interested in becoming a trustee as a career development opportunity. What's the point of being a trustee? What's the point of the trustees to the CEO, and what's the benefit to the trustees themselves? Sam Mullins: Well, let's do that in order for someone in the mid part of their career, presumably looking to assume some kind of leadership role. At some point they're going to be dealing with a board, aren't they? Yes, they might even be doing, you know, occasional reporting to a board at that at their current role, but they certainly will be if they want to be chief executive. So getting some experience on the other side of the table to feel what it's like to be a trustee dealing with chief executive. I think he's immensely useful. I always recommended it to to my gang at the Transport Museum, and they've all been on boards of one sort or another as part of their career development.Sam Mullins: For the chief executive. What's the benefit? Well, the board, I mean, very directly, hold the chief executive to account. Yes, are you doing what we asked you to do? But also the wise chief executive recruits a board that's going to be helpful in some way or another. It's not just there to catch them out. Yeah, it's it's there to bring their experience from business, from IT, from marketing, from other museums into the business of running the place. So here we've got a range of Trustees. We've been we've recruited five or six in the last couple of years qquite deliberately to we know that a diverse board is a good board, and that's diverse in the sense not just a background, but of education, retired, still, still at work, young, old, male, female, you know, you name in.Paul Marden: In all of the directionsSam Mullins: Yeah. So a diverse board makes better decisions than one that just does group think all the time. It's, you know, it's a truism, isn't it? I think we all kind of, we all understand and understand that now and then, for the trustee, you know, for me, I particularly last couple of years, when the organization has been through huge changes, it's been really interesting to deploy my prior experience, particularly in governance, because governance is what it all comes down to in an organisation. You do learn over the course of your career to deploy that on behalf, you know, this is a great organisation, the story of Brunel and the ship and and, you know, his influence on the railways. And I travel down on the Great Western railways, yeah, the influence of Brunel is, you know, is enormous. It's a fantastic story. It's inspiring. So who wouldn't want to join? You know what in 2005 was the Museum of the year? Yes, I think we'll just go back there where we came. Otherwise, I never found my way.Paul Marden: Back through the kitchen. Sam Mullins: Back through the kitchen. It looks like stew is on the menu tonight. You've seen me at the mobile the rat.Paul Marden: And also the cat up on the shelf. He's not paying a lot of attention to the ratSam Mullins: Back on deck. Paul Marden: Wonderful. Yeah. So the other great endeavor that you've embarked on is writing, writing a book. Tell us a little bit about the book.Sam Mullins: Yeah, I've written a history of transport in London and its influence on London since 2000 since the mayoralty, elected mayoralty was, was started, you know, I was very lucky when I was running the museum where I had kind of one foot in TfL and one foot out. I knew lots of people. I was there for a long time, yes, so it was, it was easy to interview about 70 of them.Paul Marden: Right? I guess you've built trust levels, haven't you? Yeah, I don't mean that you don't look like a journalist walking in from the outside with an ax to grind. Sam Mullins: And I'm not going to kind of screw them to the Evening Standard, you know, tomorrow. So it's a book based on interviews, oral reminiscences. It's very much their story. So it's big chunks of their accounts of, you know, the big events in London. So what was it like to be in the network control room on the seventh of July, 2005 when the bombs went off? What was it like to be looking out for congestion charge the day it started? Yep. What was it like to kind of manage the Olympics?Paul Marden: You know? So you're mentioning these things. And so I was 10 years at British Airways. I was an IT project manager, but as well, I was a member of the emergency planning team. Yeah. So I got involved in the response to September the 11th. I got involved in some of the engagement around seven, seven, there's seminal moments, and I can, I can vividly remember myself being there at that time. But similarly, I can remember being there when we won the Olympics, and we were all sat in the staff canteen waiting to hear whether we'd won the Olympics, and the roar that erupted. There's so many of those things that have happened in the last 25 years where, you know, you've got, it's recent history, but it's real interesting events that have occurred that you can tell stories of.Sam Mullins: Yeah. So what I wanted to get in the book was a kind of sense of what it was like to be, really at the heart of those, those stories. And there are, you know, there are, there are people in TfL who made those big things happen? Yes, it's not a big, clumsy bureaucracy. It's a place where really innovative leadership was being exercised all the way through that 25 years. Yes, so it runs up to COVID, and what was it like when COVID struck? So the book's called Every Journey Matters, and it comes out in November.Paul Marden: Amazing, amazing. So we have, we've left the insides of the ship, and we are now under, what's this part of the ship? Sam Mullins: We're under the bow. There we go, and a bow spread that gets above our heads. So again, you've got this great, hulking, cast iron, black hull, beautifully shaped at the bow. Look the way it kind of tapers in and it tapers in and out.Paul Marden: It's a very three dimensional, isn't it? The curve is, is in every direction. Sam Mullins: Yeah,it's a great, great shape. So it's my sort of, I think it's my favourite spot. I like coming to look at this, because this is the kind of, this is the business, yeah, of the ship.Paul Marden: What have we got running along the front here? These these images in in gold.Sam Mullins: This is a figurehead with Victoria's Coat of Arms only sua Kim Ali points on top with it, with a lion and a unicorn.Paul Marden: It's a really, it's not a view that many people would have ever seen, but it is such an impressive view here looking up, yeah, very, very cool. And to stand here on the on the edge of the dry dock. Sam Mullins: Dry Docks in to our right, and the floating harbor is out to our left. Yeah.Paul Marden: And much going on on that it's busy today, isn't it? Sam Mullins: Yeah, it's good. Paul Marden: So we've done full loop, haven't we? I mean, it has been a whistle stop tour that you've taken me on, but I've loved every moment of this. We always ask our guests a difficult question. Well, for some it's a difficult question, a book recommendation, which, as we agreed over lunch, cannot be your own book. I don't think, I think it's a little unfair Sam Mullins: Or anything I've ever written before.Paul Marden: Yes, slightly self serving, but yeah.Sam Mullins: It would be, wouldn't it look the first thing that comes to mind is, I've actually been reading my way through Mick Herron's Slow Horses series, okay, which I'm a big fan of detective fiction. I love Ian Rankin's Rebus. Okay, I read through Rebus endlessly when I want something just to escape into the sloughhouse series Slow Horses is really good, and the books all have a sort of similar kind of momentum to them. Something weird happens in the first few chapters, which seems very inconsequential and. Suddenly it turns into this kind of roller coaster. Will they? Won't they? You know, ending, which is just great. So I recommend Mick Herron's series. That's that's been the best, not best, fiction I've read in a long time.Paul Marden: You know, I think there's something, there's something nice, something comforting, about reading a series of books where the way the book is structured is very similar. You can, you can sit down and you know what's going to happen, but, but there's something interesting, and it's, it's easy. Sam Mullins: It's like putting on a pair of old slippers. Oh, I'm comfortable with this. Just lead me along. You know, that's what, that's what I want. I enjoy that immensely.Paul Marden: And should we be? Should we be inviting our listeners to the first book in the series, or do they need to start once, once he's got his, got his, found his way? Sam Mullins: Well, some people would have seen the television adaptation already. Well, that will have spoilt the book for them. Gary Oldman is Jackson lamb, who's the lead character, okay, but if you haven't, or you just like a damn good read, then you start with the first one, which I think is called Sloughhouse. They're all self contained, but you can work your way through them. Paul Marden: Well, that sounds very good. So listeners, if you'd like a copy of Sam's book, not Sam's book, Sam's book recommendation, then head over to Bluesky and repost the show notice and say, I want a copy of Sam's book, and the first one of you lovely listeners that does that will get a copy sent to you by Wenalyn. Sam This has been delightful. I hope listeners have enjoyed this as much as I have. This is our first time having a @skipthequeue in real life, where we wandered around the attraction itself and hopefully narrated our way bringing this amazing attraction to life. I've really enjoyed it. I can now say that as a West Country lad, I have actually been to the SS Great Britain. Last thing to say for visitor, for listeners, we are currently midway through the Rubber Cheese Annual Survey of visitor attraction websites. Paul Marden: If you look after an attraction website and you'd like to share some information about what you do, we are gathering all of that data together to produce a report that helps people to understand what good looks like for an attraction website. This is our fourth year. Listeners that are interested, head over to RubberCheese.com/survey, and you can find out a little bit more about the survey and some of the some of the findings from the past and what we're looking for for this year. Sam, thank you so very much.Sam Mullins: Enjoyed it too. It's always good to rabbit on about what you do every day of the week, and being here and part of this really great organisation is huge privilege.Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others to find us. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them to increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcripts from this episode and more over on our website, skipthequeue fm.
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