The WARC Podcast

How did ad agency economics become so challenging? Fee-cutting and low growth are part of the equation, but the roots of the issue go back decades. Ad industry analyst and author Michael Farmer joins WARC's David Tiltman to discuss his new book 'Madison Avenue Revisited' and offer his take on 30+ years of change to advertising business models, including the impact of dysfunctional client-agency relationships, increased creative workloads and AI.

Guests:

Michael Farmer, Chairman and CEO, Farmer&Co; Professor of Branding and Integrated Communications at The City College of New York

David Tiltman, SVP - Content, WARC

Chapters:

[00:00] Introduction: Michael Farmer joins The WARC Podcast

[06:49] From 'Madison Avenue Manslaughter' to 'Madison Avenue Revisited'

[11:25] How ad agency workloads doubled while fees halved

[18:29] Why big advertisers are underperforming GDP

[23:44] Short-termism and the failure to brief for brand growth

[27:51] The key factors undermining advertising economics

[30:11] Artificial intelligence threatens advertising agencies

[32:28] 'Infinite creative' doesn’t equal brand growth

[35:18] Using AI to fund strategy and reinvesting in senior talent

[37:01] How hold-cos, commissions, and cheap CPMs undermined creative value

[40:29] Why do CFOs block long-term marketing investment?

[41:02] How AI can optimise the marketing mix for growth


For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.
Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts
Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest
Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe

Just 29% of creator ads outperform the average brand ad. Research from System 1, WPP Media and Tiktok uncovers what drives attention, emotion and brand recognition across creator content. System 1's Andrew Tindall and brand strategist Eugene Healey join WARC's Anna Hamill to break down creator effectiveness hacks, how to brief creators properly, and why so many marketers are using the wrong metrics to measure success.

Guests:

Andrew Tindall, Chief Advertising Officer, System1

Eugene Healey, Brand Strategist and Content Creator (@eugbrandstrat)

Anna Hamill, Senior Editor, The WARC Podcast

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro: Welcome to The WARC Podcast

00:10 - How do creators build brands?

02:17 - Methodology of the WPP Media/TikTok/System1 creator research

04:09 - What really drives brand memory: engagement, deep engagement or creativity?

05:37 - How should creators and brands think about brand fit and long-term impact?

07:54 - What metrics should marketers prioritise in creator marketing?

13:55 - Characteristics of the most effective creator campaigns

16:27 - What creator content actually performs on social?

20:03 - 3x brand memory lift from early brand cues

22:43 - Briefing creators for authenticity and effectiveness

27:54 - Why you can’t outbrief a bad strategy in creator marketing

29:27 - What are social devices and what is the one thing marketers should do next?


For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.
Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts
Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest
Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe

Uber's Lucinda Barlow offers advice for marketers on how to build a safe culture for creative experimentation, identifying strategic blind spots, making decisions in times of extraordinary uncertainty and how to localise a global brand. Hosted by WARC's Rica Facundo.

Guests:

Lucinda Barlow, Head of International Marketing, Uber

Rica Facundo, Marketing Editor - Asia Pacific, WARC

Chapters:

00:00 – Introduction to The WARC Podcast with Uber's Lucinda Barlow

01:14 – Uber’s growth and category creation

03:43 – What is 'smart' risk taking?

07:13 – Overcoming fear, hierarchy, and failure in marketing organizations

11:51 – Proving long-term brand impact

15:36 – Explaining marketing terms to CEOs and CFOs

17:28 – Why entertaining creative beats rational promos in brand building

19:41 – Inside Uber’s “Skip the Kung Fu” Hong Kong campaign

23:35 – How Uber localizes a global brand

28:06 – Uber Eats' World Cup campaign with Gordon Ramsey

28:30 – Why AI alone can’t replace human creativity


For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.
Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts
Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest
Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe

How do the best marketers actually integrate brand and performance – not just in theory, but in org design, planning and measurement? Prophet’s Kate Price and Monica El Hassan join WARC's Ann Marie Kerwin to discuss strategies for a more integrated approach, based on WARC's marketing effectiveness research The Multiplier Playbook.

Guests:

Kate Price, Partner - Marketing Transformation, Prophet

Monica El-Hassan, Partner - Media, Prophet

Chapters:

00:00 – Intro: The Multiplier Playbook on The WARC Podcast

01:49 – Why brand and performance marketing teams are siloed

03:18 – Cultural divides: traditional brand vs digital performance

04:28 – Specialist skills, loss of generalists and pressure on CMOs

07:15 – Shared language: bridging brand, demand and media teams

09:58 – Customer-centric marketing: changing behaviour to drive growth

14:30 – Integrated planning: how overperforming marketers organise

19:45 – Budget rebalancing: brand investment vs performance metrics

24:19 – B2B SaaS case: US Open sponsorship as a brand–demand engine

31:23 – Shared KPIs: proving commercial impact of brand marketing

38:34 – Org design: generalists, team structures and planning rhythms

40:21 – Key takeaways for marketing leaders


For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.
Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts
Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest
Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe

Brand equity is essential to win on AI platforms. Equity can't be built without memory, and memory can't be built without attention. WARC's Alex Brownsell discusses what role attention plays in AI visibility for brands, and practical advice to implement, with experts Dr. Karen Nelson Field, Carl Wåreus and Scott Reinders.

Guests:

Dr Karen Nelson-Field, Founder & CEO of Amplified

Carl Wåreus, Head of Partners & Specialists, Google Nordics

Scott Reinders, COO, Connect - part of The Up&Up Group

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro: Brand, AI Search and Attention on The WARC Podcast

02:08 - From Blue Links to Conversations: How AI is Changing Search Behaviour

03:31 - Collapsing the Messy Middle: LLMs as the New Consideration Engine

04:41 - Brand Equity as an AI Ranking Signal: Google Example from Sweden

06:54 - Levers vs Drift: Managing Brand Signals AI and LLMs Can See

08:21 - Automated Creative at Scale: Avoiding the ‘AI Slop’ Trap

10:32 - Visibility Starvation: The Risk of Low-Attention, Fast-Decay Media

12:32 - Misattribution and Invisibility: How Low Attention Hurts LLM Visibility

14:54 - Media Quality Redefined: High-Attention vs High-Intent Environments

16:14 - Silent Zone vs Vocal Zone: Human Noise, Reviews and AI Training Data

18:37 - Moving Beyond an Attention Metric: Attention as System Architecture

19:35 - Inside Attention AI: Generative Attention Modelling for Media and Creative

22:54 - Media Ceilings, Creative Hooks: How Formats and Assets Shape Attention

26:58 - Practical Advice: Multiplying Brand Equity, Attention and AI Visibility


For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.
Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts
Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest
Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe