The WARC Podcast

The gap between creative and media is closing, with large scale creative data and next-gen measurement tools combining to predict commercial outcomes, not just clicks. Boots' Peter Grant, CreativeX's Anastasia Leng and DAIVID's Ian Forrester join the pod to share the lessons from a pilot experiment at health and beauty retailer Boots, and what its taught them about the future of creative effectiveness. Hosted by WARC's David Tiltman.
Guests:
Peter Grant, interim media and marketing effectiveness director, Boots
Anastasia Leng, founder and CEO of CreativeX
Ian Forrester, founder and CEO of DAIVID
Chapters:
[00:00] Boots, CreativeX and DAIVID’s Real‑World Test
[03:55] Boots’ effectiveness journey
[05:49] 3,500 assets at scale: how CreativeX built creative observability for Boots
[07:43] What is a creative quality score?
[09:32] Inside DAIVID’s model: attention and brand recall metrics
[11:41] Human ground truth vs synthetic data panels
[12:52] Linking creative signals to real‑world commercial outcomes
[14:55] Results of the testing on Meta and YouTube
[17:22] Diagnosing boredom, confusion and underperforming creative at scale
[20:02] How Boots uses creative data to reinvest, not cut, media spend
[22:02] From one‑off analysis to always‑on optimization
[24:34] Feeding signals into GenAI and creator workflows
[27:26] Fixing long‑tail content waste in digital media
[30:18] Common language for creative and media teams
[38:06] Boots’ 18‑month vision: operationalized creative effectiveness

For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.

Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts

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Failing to usher buyers from discovery to purchase in the fewest possible steps is often seen as a setback. This belief misunderstands the consumer purchase journey, according to new research. Mindscope's Lea Karam and TikTok's Elias W. Bassil join WARC's Alex Brownsell to discuss the alchemy of customer consideration.
Guests:
Lea Karam, CEO & Founder of Mindscope
Elias W. Bassil, Regional Head of Business Marketing, TikTok METAP
Alex Brownsell, Head of Content, WARC Media
Chapters:
[0:10] – Introducing “The Alchemy of Consideration” with TikTok & Mindscope
[1:56] – Does Marketing Misunderstand the Consideration Phase in the Customer Journey?
[3:28] – Why Traditional Journey Models Are Broken
[5:51] – Reframing Decision-Making Beyond Funnel Thinking
[10:41] – What Is a Behavioral Pause?
[12:57] – Desire vs Need: Liking, Wanting, and Value Alignment in Consumer Choice
[13:42] – How Pauses Show Up on TikTok
[16:54] – The Cost of Forcing Narratives in the Consideration Phase
[18:18] – Short-Term KPIs vs Long-Term Brand Building: Rethinking the Attention Economy
[21:10] – The Four Forces of Consideration: Social, Cognitive, Contextual, and Emotional
[23:18] – Why Context Has Veto Power: Viewing Environment and Mental Availability
[27:44] – How Brands Can Improve Consideration Effectiveness

For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.

Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts

Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest

Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe

Effectiveness expert James Hurman joins to discuss the key ideas in his new book 'Future Demand', why performance marketing is plateauing, how brands really grow, and the nuances of building a dual measurement system. Hosted by WARC's David Tiltman.
Guests:
James Hurman, marketing effectiveness expert and author, 'Future Demand'
David Tiltman, Chief Content Officer, WARC
Chapters:
[00:00] Introduction to James Hurman’s new book 'Future Demand'
[03:21] Solving diminishing returns in performance marketing
[07:07] Explaining 'future vs current demand' with the 95–5 rule and Ehrenberg-Bass insights
[09:39] Why advertising doesn’t directly cause short-term sales
[11:18] How consideration sets drive 84% of brand choice
[13:20] Making marketing make sense to the C-suite
[16:19] Advertising’s true role is misunderstood
[22:38] Two jobs of advertising: brand building for future demand vs performance for current demand
[23:20] How to measure brand and performance impact
[27:15] Using emotional metrics as leading indicators
[31:10] How digital-first brands rebalanced brand and performance
[35:41] The 'two audience problem': why brands must be machine-readable and human-lovable

For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.

Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts

Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest

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Instacart's Laura Jones returns to share practical lessons from Instacart's brand transformation, including prioritising effectiveness, brand-first marketing strategy, partnerships, Instacart's chase to win a Cannes Lion and much more.

Guests:

Laura Jones, Chief Marketing Officer, Instacart

Ann Marie Kerwin, Americas Editor, WARC

Chapters:

[00:00] Introduction: Instacart’s marketing transformation project

[01:36] Building the Instacart brand: From performance-pnly to full-funnel marketing

[03:47] Balancing functional messaging and emotional storytelling

[05:24] Redefining marketing measurement: From last-touch ROAS to portfolio impact

[08:02] Explaining marketing effectiveness to the C-suite

[09:25] Scaling an in-house creative agency

[12:31] Instacart's 2026 Super Bowl campaign

[16:41] Brand-building partnerships: WNBA and Feeding America

[19:27] Brand stewardship: A new view on marketing effectiveness

[21:22] Embedding brand across product, CX and culture

[21:33] Learning from Cannes Lions and Raising the Creative Bar

For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.

Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts

Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest

Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe

The biggest creative risk? Not being creative enough. System1's Andrew Tindall joins WARC's Ann Marie Kerwin to discuss the multiplier effect of creativity, how brands can be more creative, and why it's essential to marketing that truly moves the dial for brands.

Read The Multiplier Playbook research from WARC here: https://www.warc.com/en/the-multiplier-playbook-2026

Watch WARC's podcast on The Creative Dividend, a major new effectiveness study from System1 and Effie Worldwide, based on more than 1,200 Effie cases: https://studio.youtube.com/video/wH_tJ8xBfHA/

Guests:

Andrew Tindall, Chief Advertising Officer, System1

Ann Marie Kerwin, Americas Editor, WARC

Chapters:

[00:00] Intro: The multiplier effect of creativity

[01:52] Why future demand matters in brand building

[02:18] How advertising drives brand growth

[03:30] Why interesting, engaging creative beats narrow targeting

[06:33] Creativity’s impact on short-term sales vs long-term brand effects

[07:02] Emotional, distinctive, entertaining ads drive immediate response

[10:46] The real 'cost of dull' in advertising

[15:03] The Creativity Stack: distinctiveness, emotion, showmanship, and consistency

[18:30] Why distinctiveness is table stakes for profitable brand growth

[20:17] Showmanship in advertising: stopping the scroll

[22:30] Consistency in creativity: how campaigns wear in, not wear out

[27:01] Build, nudge, connect: a modern framework to replace the traditional funnel

[29:43] Distinctive brand assets

[33:46] Creative quality and media planning

[42:00] Why marketers should let effective ads run much longer

[45:10] Getting back to 'the big idea'

[47:30] Tightening the creative brief

[49:30] Why modern marketing feels overwhelming

For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.

Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts

Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest

Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe