The WARC Podcast

Effectiveness expert James Hurman joins to discuss the key ideas in his new book 'Future Demand', why performance marketing is plateauing, how brands really grow, and the nuances of building a dual measurement system. Hosted by WARC's David Tiltman.
Guests:
James Hurman, marketing effectiveness expert and author, 'Future Demand'
David Tiltman, Chief Content Officer, WARC
Chapters:
[00:00] Introduction to James Hurman’s new book 'Future Demand'
[03:21] Solving diminishing returns in performance marketing
[07:07] Explaining 'future vs current demand' with the 95–5 rule and Ehrenberg-Bass insights
[09:39] Why advertising doesn’t directly cause short-term sales
[11:18] How consideration sets drive 84% of brand choice
[13:20] Making marketing make sense to the C-suite
[16:19] Advertising’s true role is misunderstood
[22:38] Two jobs of advertising: brand building for future demand vs performance for current demand
[23:20] How to measure brand and performance impact
[27:15] Using emotional metrics as leading indicators
[31:10] How digital-first brands rebalanced brand and performance
[35:41] The 'two audience problem': why brands must be machine-readable and human-lovable

For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.

Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts

Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest

Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe

Instacart's Laura Jones returns to share practical lessons from Instacart's brand transformation, including prioritising effectiveness, brand-first marketing strategy, partnerships, Instacart's chase to win a Cannes Lion and much more.

Guests:

Laura Jones, Chief Marketing Officer, Instacart

Ann Marie Kerwin, Americas Editor, WARC

Chapters:

[00:00] Introduction: Instacart’s marketing transformation project

[01:36] Building the Instacart brand: From performance-pnly to full-funnel marketing

[03:47] Balancing functional messaging and emotional storytelling

[05:24] Redefining marketing measurement: From last-touch ROAS to portfolio impact

[08:02] Explaining marketing effectiveness to the C-suite

[09:25] Scaling an in-house creative agency

[12:31] Instacart's 2026 Super Bowl campaign

[16:41] Brand-building partnerships: WNBA and Feeding America

[19:27] Brand stewardship: A new view on marketing effectiveness

[21:22] Embedding brand across product, CX and culture

[21:33] Learning from Cannes Lions and Raising the Creative Bar

For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.

Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts

Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest

Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe

The biggest creative risk? Not being creative enough. System1's Andrew Tindall joins WARC's Ann Marie Kerwin to discuss the multiplier effect of creativity, how brands can be more creative, and why it's essential to marketing that truly moves the dial for brands.

Read The Multiplier Playbook research from WARC here: https://www.warc.com/en/the-multiplier-playbook-2026

Watch WARC's podcast on The Creative Dividend, a major new effectiveness study from System1 and Effie Worldwide, based on more than 1,200 Effie cases: https://studio.youtube.com/video/wH_tJ8xBfHA/

Guests:

Andrew Tindall, Chief Advertising Officer, System1

Ann Marie Kerwin, Americas Editor, WARC

Chapters:

[00:00] Intro: The multiplier effect of creativity

[01:52] Why future demand matters in brand building

[02:18] How advertising drives brand growth

[03:30] Why interesting, engaging creative beats narrow targeting

[06:33] Creativity’s impact on short-term sales vs long-term brand effects

[07:02] Emotional, distinctive, entertaining ads drive immediate response

[10:46] The real 'cost of dull' in advertising

[15:03] The Creativity Stack: distinctiveness, emotion, showmanship, and consistency

[18:30] Why distinctiveness is table stakes for profitable brand growth

[20:17] Showmanship in advertising: stopping the scroll

[22:30] Consistency in creativity: how campaigns wear in, not wear out

[27:01] Build, nudge, connect: a modern framework to replace the traditional funnel

[29:43] Distinctive brand assets

[33:46] Creative quality and media planning

[42:00] Why marketers should let effective ads run much longer

[45:10] Getting back to 'the big idea'

[47:30] Tightening the creative brief

[49:30] Why modern marketing feels overwhelming

For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.

Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts

Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest

Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe

'How Brands Grow' is one of the most influential books in marketing, exploring rules of brand growth such as mental and physical availability, double jeopardy, and increasing penetration. Professor Byron Sharp, its author and director of the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute, joined WARC's David Tiltman at Cannes Lions to revisit its core principles and how they apply to today's marketing landscape.

Guests:

Byron Sharp, author, How Brands Grow; Professor of Marketing Science, University of Adelaide; Director, Ehrenberg Bass Institute

David Tiltman, Chief Content Officer, WARC

Chapters:

[00:00] Introduction: Prof. Byron Sharp joins The WARC Podcast

[02:40] Mental and physical availability: Where Byron Sharp and Mark Ritson align

[04:00] Inside 'How Brands Grow': Laws of brand growth explained

[05:20] The NBD-Dirichlet Model and Ehrenberg’s Law of Buyer Frequency

[07:15] Andrew Ehrenberg’s influence on marketing science

[09:30] Brand awareness and brand salience

[12:40] Why CMOs must know the laws of marketing science

[15:30] What brand image data really shows

[18:50] Navigating recession: Should brands cut advertising spend?

[22:10] Inflation, private label growth and CPG brand strategy

[26:00] Mental availability as a brand asset

[29:40] How small brands grow

[32:20] Differentiation vs distinctiveness

[36:12] Byron Sharp's advice on pricing power

[37:30] How does brand image differ from mental availability?

[40:16] How Ehrenberg-Bass laws work in disrupted and high-growth markets

[42:24] The future of marketing science & fact-checking hype

For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.

Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts

Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest

Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe

Procter & Gamble is one of the world's biggest advertisers. Marc Pritchard, P&G's long-time Chief Brand Officer, joins WARC's Anna Hamill to share insights and lessons from almost 40 years in marketing at the CPG giant, including the enduring power of brand building, the evolution of media, adapting to the AI era, and how brand purpose and cultural insights delivered real business growth for its brands.

This episode is sponsored by Circana. Learn more about their AI-powered marketing mix solution LiquidMix at circana.com/warc.

Guests:

Marc Pritchard, Chief Brand Officer, Procter & Gamble

Anna Hamill, Senior Editor, The WARC Podcast

Topics covered:

[00:00] – Intro: P&G’s Marc Pritchard joins The WARC Podcast

[02:01] – Defining marketing effectiveness: P&G’s 'five-fecta' growth framework

[04:08] – P&G's brand-building fundamentals: the “who, what, how” model

[07:09] – From TV to AI: How media fragmentation is changing marketing

[07:51] – Media transparency and the missing sales attribution signal

[10:18] – Why retail media is reshaping commerce at P&G

[12:09] – How P&G is adopting retail media, algorithms and content flywheels

[15:01] – AI as a brand-building and accelerator

[18:32] – In-housing media, content and ad testing to speed up innovation

[21:38] – Inside P&G's culture of marketing effectiveness

[23:13] – Balancing content volume, quality and media spend

[29:51] – How brand purpose and cultural insights grew P&G's brands

[34:29] – How CMOs can navigate uncertainty around brand purpose

[36:42] – Marc Pritchard's career advice for young marketers

For 40 years, WARC has been providing the marketing industry with rigorous, unbiased evidence and expert effectiveness guidance. The WARC Podcast publishes a new episode every Tuesday and Thursday.

Subscribe to The WARC Podcast here: https://www.warc.com/en/warc-podcasts

Sign up to daily WARC News for free: https://www.warc.com/en/latest

Book a demo: https://www.warc.com/en/subscribe