That's What I Call Marketing

Sarah Booth, Chief Brand and Creative Officer at Ancient + Brave, and Leanne Tomasevic, Partnerships and Strategy Director at Electric Twin, examine fear-based wellness advertising, synthetic audience research and the human consequences of marketing built around insecurity. Using the Electric Twin platform live during the conversation, we test real wellness advertisements with synthetic audiences and explore how people respond to messages about ageing, attractiveness, sleep, cellulite and female confidence. The results raise an important question for marketers: are we measuring the commercial value of a sale while ignoring what the advertising costs the person on the other side?
In this episode, we cover:
– How wellness brands use fear of ageing, shame and insecurity to attract attention
– What women and men really think about fear-based wellness advertising
– How synthetic audiences allow marketers to test advertising reactions in seconds
– Why scientific language can make weak or misleading claims feel more credible
– How performance algorithms can reward increasingly negative advertising
– The tension between short-term conversion and long-term brand integrity
– Why marketers should consider the cultural and emotional impact of their work

Advertising that sells through fear can leave vulnerable consumers feeling worse, even when it produces a conversion. Leanne demonstrates how Electric Twin creates digital replicas of real audiences, allowing marketers to run surveys, discussions and message testing with a reported average accuracy of 92%. As brands produce hundreds or even thousands of digital assets, marketers can become focused on feeding the algorithm rather than considering how each message affects the person seeing it. A critical listen for marketers interested in brand strategy, wellness marketing, synthetic research, AI in marketing, advertising ethics, consumer insight, marketing effectiveness, performance marketing and responsible brand building.
Timestamps

00:43 Modern wellness advertising and real consumer reactions
03:17 How Electric Twin’s synthetic audience platform works
04:58 Sarah Booth on Ancient + Brave and female confidence
06:25 Leanne Vic explains synthetic audiences
08:17 Why wellness advertising increasingly sells through fear
09:45 Testing a “fear of getting old” advertisement
13:14 How fear-based advertising makes women feel
14:49 Testing the “science of beauty sleep”
18:19 Would consumers actually click on the advertisement?
19:31 The regulatory challenge of digital wellness advertising
21:17 How algorithms create an advertising arms race
22:36 What marketers need to understand about cultural influence
24:00 Why designers think differently about human impact
25:00 Which brands represent female bravery?
27:12 What would make women feel braver?
29:00 Testing cellulite advertising with men
32:00 Can better evidence rescue a damaging advertisement?
34:22 What men think about the way women are marketed to
35:00 Testing a long-form menopause supplement advertisement
36:10 “Dangling hope in front of someone in pain”
36:37 Can platforms make their algorithms more positive?
37:00 Competing without using fear or shame
39:17 The responsibility marketers have for their work

This episode is in partnership with Electric Twin. Electric Twin is a synthetic audience platform that helps brands, marketers, product teams and insight professionals understand audiences, test ideas and explore consumer reactions in seconds.
Find out more at: https://www.electrictwin.com

That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners.
Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of The Singles on That’s What I Call Marketing, Conor Byrne is joined by Bella and Ed from Tracksuit to unpack the biggest marketing stories right now using brand tracking data. They dive into the AI brand wars between ChatGPT/OpenAI and Claude/Anthropic, including how Super Bowl advertising impacted awareness and consideration, and discuss how people use each tool for work vs personal life. The team shares Tracksuit’s acquisition of Hall, a Sydney startup that measures how brands show up in AI answers, helping marketers understand AI discoverability and sentiment. They also revisit American Eagle’s Sydney Sweeney campaign one year on (awareness gains vs declines in consideration and investigation), break down Norwegian Air’s playful British Airways newsjacking around Norway’s World Cup momentum, and explore Carlsberg’s revival of the “If Carlsberg Did…” platform and what it could mean for brand funnel performance.

01:05 Today’s Marketing Hot Topics
02:11 AI Brand Wars Data
05:27 Who Uses Claude vs ChatGPT
07:52 AI Use Cases and Model Fatigue
12:54 Tracking AI Visibility
17:31 American Eagle One Year Later
21:44 BA vs Norwegian Newsjacking
26:44 Carlsberg Revives Classic Platform

Check out tracksuit
That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What should marketers take from Cannes Lions once the presentations are over and the real work of planning for Q4 begins?

In this special crossover episode of That’s What I Call Marketing and The Sleeping Barber Podcast, System1’s Andrew Tindall and Vanessa Chin join Conor Byrne, Marc Binkley and V to explore what the latest marketing thinking means in practice for brands, agencies and creative teams.

The conversation begins with Mark Ritson and Byron Sharp’s Cannes debate, looking at where they agree, where important differences remain and why marketers need to go beyond familiar headlines on penetration, distinctiveness, consistency and brand purpose. Andrew and Vanessa discuss whether distinctiveness alone can drive growth, why differentiation still matters and how the search for “new news” can lead brands to abandon creative assets before they have built recognition.

The episode also examines how AI is changing advertising. Rather than removing people from the process, AI is becoming part of production, helping brands adapt and localise ideas more efficiently. The group considers Coca-Cola’s AI Christmas advertising, PepsiCo adapting Lay’s creative for Walkers in the UK, and why human judgement still matters. There are practical lessons on creator marketing, brand characters, fluent devices and staying consistent. Andrew explains why creators should be treated as creative partners who understand their platforms, not as interchangeable media assets.

The discussion then turns to audio and radio advertising. System1 research suggests campaigns using audio can produce stronger business effects, support profit and penetration, and reduce price sensitivity. The group explores sonic branding, jingles and why radio should not be treated only as a short-term performance channel.
Attention matters, but it is not the end goal. Andrew explains why marketers need to move from impressions, to attention, and ultimately to the brand memories advertising creates.

The episode closes with a practical Q4 playbook for Black Friday, Cyber Monday and Christmas. “Salesmanship” may deliver immediate conversion, but emotional “showmanship” builds memories, demand and pricing power. The lesson: focus on the feels, not only the deals.

CHAPTERS

03:24 Ritson and Sharp at Cannes
04:45 Distinctiveness versus differentiation
06:00 Is brand purpose outdated?
08:00 Why marketers struggle with consistency
11:05 Turning theory into growth
13:09 AI, creativity and human judgement
16:10 How PepsiCo uses AI in advertising
19:05 Why AI was quieter at Cannes
19:55 AI avatars and brand characters
22:01 Why marketers need to stay the course
22:54 When did a campaign become a media flight?
24:45 Turning Cannes insights into a Q4 plan
25:22 The “Double Double” audio research
28:04 Why audio matters
30:13 What makes an effective radio ad?
32:29 Why radio is more than a performance channel
34:00 Storytelling and creating an audio world
36:50 Should creators work across every channel?
38:00 What System1’s creator research found
40:54 Is Q4 the right time for a fluent device?
42:06 Moving from attention to brand memory
46:36 Can brands be built through Meta and TikTok?
48:49 Why brands need to appear early
50:02 The Q4 marketing playbook
50:43 Make people feel something
51:52 Black Friday: deals versus feels
52:23 Salesmanship, showmanship and short-term optimisation
54:48 What marketers can learn from Amazon
56:26 Feels, not deals
57:01 Why brands should re-air effective Christmas ads
58:00 Consumers do not get bored of good advertising

This episode was created in partnership with System1. Find out more at system1group.com.
Subscribe to That’s What I Call Marketing for more conversations on brand growth, marketing effectiveness and creative strategy.
That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Matt Butts, Head of Marketing Science at Samsung Ads Europe, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss marketing science, incrementality, connected TV measurement and why rigorous testing matters more than a positive result. This episode explains how marketers can move beyond convenient metrics, design better experiments and connect advertising activity to meaningful business outcomes. Matt also explores how changing television behaviours are reshaping media planning, audience measurement and the role of connected TV.
In this episode, we cover:
– Why marketers often measure metrics without questioning whether they matter
– The difference between basic A/B testing and genuine incrementality testing
– Why the quality of the test matters more than whether the result is positive
– How marketing scientists translate complex analysis into commercial decisions
– How Samsung Ads measures viewing across linear television, streaming and gaming
– Why reported reach can hide significant audience duplication
– How incremental reach can reduce media waste and identify missed audiences
– The role of connected TV data in advertising planning and measurement
– Why marketers need to communicate measurement differently to CMOs, CFOs and media teams
– How rigorous measurement helped one advertiser move from zero investment to a seven-figure commitment

Matt argues that marketing science should not simply validate decisions that have already been made. Its role is to challenge assumptions, identify what would have happened without the advertising and give marketers evidence they can confidently use to make better investment decisions.
A useful listen for marketers interested in marketing science, advertising effectiveness, connected TV, incrementality, media measurement, experimentation and commercial impact.
Timestamps
01:16 How Matt found his way into marketing science
02:19 How advertising measurement has changed
03:27 Are marketers measuring things without knowing why?
04:27 Why measurement assumptions must be tested continually
05:02 Do marketers know how to test properly?
06:00 The limitations of basic A/B testing
06:17 Why incrementality is the missing part of marketing testing
07:18 The importance of statisticians, data scientists and translation
08:13 Matt’s journey to Samsung Ads
08:18 What Samsung Ads does
09:00 How television viewing behaviour has changed
10:18 Balancing audience precision, relevance and scale
11:02 Relevance without intrusive personalisation
12:19 Samsung Ads’ Total View measurement capability
12:36 Audience duplication, incremental reach and missed audiences
13:40 Why platform reach figures can be misleading
14:06 What a Head of Marketing Science actually does
14:40 Building advertiser-specific measurement playbooks
15:16 Using measurement to improve future advertising investment
15:23 How to explain incrementality to senior business leaders
15:41 Why marketers need to understand marketing science
17:00 How measurement feeds into marketing mix models
17:33 A real example of fixing incomplete advertising data
19:00 How a geo test led to a seven-figure investment
19:43 Why negative test results should not frighten marketers
20:40 Combining scientific rigour with commercial thinking
21:51 What comes next for connected TV measurement
22:00 Connecting television and mobile data
23:30 Why marketing measurement must keep pace with human behaviour

That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners.
Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
Thanks to the Digital Voice for their partnership https://www.thedigitalvoice.co.uk/
That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Amir Rasekh, Managing Director of Nectar360, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss customer insight, retail media, AI-powered measurement and how agentic commerce could change the way people shop.
This episode explains how retail media has evolved from loyalty data, targeted coupons and direct mail into a sophisticated, measurable channel spanning in-store, onsite and offsite media.
In this episode, we cover:
– Why customer insight remains the foundation of effective retail media
– How Nectar360 connects loyalty, insight and retail media in one customer-focused system
– Why brands hold retail media to a higher measurement standard than traditional channels
– How Nectar360 measures incrementality and multi-touch attribution across omnichannel campaigns
– How its AI-powered Pollen platform makes campaign planning, creative production and measurement faster
– What agentic commerce could mean for retailers, marketers and customer decision-making
– Why AI should support better human relationships rather than remove the people involved

Amir also shares early results from Pollen, including 2.5 times more incremental sales from omnichannel campaigns and evidence that retail media can influence the middle and upper parts of the marketing funnel, rather than acting only as a conversion channel.
The conversation also explores an important tension for marketers: technology can make retail media simpler, faster and more measurable, but clients still expect strong relationships, expertise and human judgement. A useful listen for marketers interested in customer insight, retail media, marketing measurement, AI in marketing, incrementality, omnichannel strategy and the future of commerce.
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
01:27 Amir Rasekh’s career in retail and Sainsbury’s
04:34 Building an insight-led culture
05:00 What Nectar360 does today
06:06 Why retail media suddenly became so prominent
07:18 The fundamentals of retail media
08:52 Why measurement expectations are increasing
10:28 Introducing Nectar360’s Pollen platform
12:15 Are marketers rigorous enough when testing campaigns?
13:33 How AI accelerated retail media technology
14:21 AI audience building, creative scoring and production
14:38 Cutting creative production from weeks to 90 seconds
14:59 Early results from omnichannel retail media
16:10 Retail media as a brand-building channel
17:05 How customer shopping behaviour is changing
18:00 What agentic commerce means for retail
20:03 Will consumers shop through ChatGPT and AI agents?
22:16 Why physical stores still matter
24:00 How Nectar360’s teams are using AI
25:16 Building AI literacy across an organisation
25:47 Why clients do not want technology to replace people
26:04 Closing thoughts
That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners.
Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
This Cannes Sessions episode is produced in partnership with The Digital Voice.
Find out more at: https://www.thedigitalvoice.co.uk
That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.