That's What I Call Marketing

Meghan Gendelman, CMO, B2B at Canva, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss B2B marketing, enterprise growth, building demand and how Canva is taking a hugely successful product-led business further into the enterprise. This conversation gets into what building a B2B growth engine actually requires: understanding customers, combining product-led and sales-led growth, building brand before buyers enter the market, using data properly and working out where AI genuinely adds value.

In this episode, we cover:
– Why Meghan believes B2B marketing is anything but boring, particularly when you are dealing with complex buying committees, long consideration periods and multiple decision-makers
– Why customer insight still matters more than tools, including Meghan’s experience of using AI to scale content for GEO and discovering that faster content without anything new or useful simply didn’t work
– How brand, customer entry points and buying signals help marketers influence customers long before they reach a website or speak to sales
– Why Meghan believes every good marketer needs to become comfortable with data, pipeline and the commercial numbers behind the business
– How Canva is thinking about AI, LLMs, design, brand governance and integrations with platforms including ChatGPT, Claude and Gemini
– What Meghan learned from more than a decade at Salesforce, her time at DocuSign and the process that led her to become Canva’s first B2B CMO
– How she leads global marketing teams through clear values, trust, vulnerability and knowing the difference between “smoke” and “fire”

We also discuss the changing B2B buying journey, why much of the decision can happen before a buyer identifies themselves, the role of brand in demand generation and why B2B and B2C marketing are becoming less distinct than marketers sometimes assume.
A useful listen for marketers interested in B2B marketing, enterprise marketing, product-led growth, demand generation, brand building, AI in marketing, customer insight, sales and marketing, marketing leadership and commercial growth.

02:12 Meghan’s career across Salesforce, DocuSign and Canva
03:03 Why everything starts with the customer
05:44 The AI and GEO content experiment that failed
07:18 Why B2B marketing is not boring
10:30 Leading global marketing teams through values and trust
11:41 Smoke, fire and knowing when leaders need to get involved
12:47 Why Meghan joined Canva
14:46 Canva’s 30–40 hour B2B marketing interview challenge
16:15 Taking Canva from product-led growth into enterprise
17:04 Product-led growth versus sales-led growth
19:47 How B2B buying decisions are changing
22:08 Why every marketer needs to understand data
23:13 Meghan’s Monday morning pipeline ritual
24:21 Learning from other marketing leaders
25:00 Remote work, offices and building global teams
27:39 Why EMEA is not one market
28:40 Keeping Canva simple as the platform expands
29:11 Canva as an AI-powered design platform
30:27 Canva, ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini and the LLM ecosystem
31:47 Building Canva’s B2B and enterprise brand

About Meghan Gendelman
B2B at Canva, leading its B2B marketing strategy as Canva continues to grow its enterprise business. Before Canva, Meghan held senior marketing roles at DocuSign and spent more than 12 years at Salesforce across areas including customer success, product marketing, growth marketing, field marketing, demand generation and regional marketing leadership.

This episode was recorded as part of the That’s What I Call Marketing Cannes Sessions and produced in partnership with The Digital Voice.
The Digital Voice: https://www.thedigitalvoice.co.uk/
That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners.
Find more episodes at:
https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Natasha Wallace, Chief Solutions Officer for Strategy, Planning and AI at Jellyfish, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss how brands can become more visible and understandable to AI without sacrificing creativity, emotion or distinctiveness.

This episode explains how marketers should approach the growing challenge of serving two audiences at once: humans, who respond to stories, feelings and ideas, and AI models, which rely on clear signals, context, trust and specificity.

In this episode, we cover:
– Why Jellyfish’s research found almost no correlation between how humans and AI models judge creative work
– What “brand flattening” means and why marketers should resist making everything rational and functional
– How to make a brand legible to large language models without weakening its creativity
– Why brand trust, distinctive assets and consumer consensus still influence AI recommendations
– The role of YouTube, Reddit, creators, ecommerce and digital PR in shaping model perception
– Why paid, owned and earned media need to work together in an AI-led discovery environment

Natasha also explains Jellyfish’s concept of the “brand echo”: the conversation, reaction and community created around a brand, even when the original activity is not directly visible to an AI model.

The practical message is not that marketers need to abandon the fundamentals. It is that audience strategy, brand positioning, content, media and measurement need to work together more closely. The brands most likely to succeed will be clear enough for machines to understand and interesting enough for people to care about.

A useful listen for marketers interested in AI in marketing, GEO, brand strategy, creativity, content strategy, advertising effectiveness and the future of search and discovery.

That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners.

Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com

**Timestamps**

00:00 Why marketers must not flatten their brands for AI
00:39 Introducing Natasha Wallace of Jellyfish
02:04 Natasha’s career across digital, media and emerging technology
03:35 Why AI feels different from previous industry shifts
05:23 Working globally with Heineken and major sports properties
07:05 Why Natasha joined Jellyfish
09:00 Bringing media, content, creative and AI strategy together
12:32 What humans and AI models see in award-winning advertising
15:31 The danger of brand flattening
16:36 How the “brand echo” influences AI models
17:35 Why brand trust and distinctive assets still matter
20:21 Why YouTube is frequently cited by large language models
22:28 How marketers should prioritise their AI and GEO activity
24:46 Leading and lagging indicators for AI visibility
26:01 The platforms and voices that shape model perception
27:27 Borrowed credibility, belonging and long-term brand associations
30:05 Testing creative work without making it formulaic
32:25 Why AI should strengthen human thinking, not replace it

That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners.
Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
This Cannes Sessions episode is produced in partnership with The Digital Voice.
That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sarah Booth, Chief Brand and Creative Officer at Ancient + Brave, and Leanne Tomasevic, Partnerships and Strategy Director at Electric Twin, examine fear-based wellness advertising, synthetic audience research and the human consequences of marketing built around insecurity. Using the Electric Twin platform live during the conversation, we test real wellness advertisements with synthetic audiences and explore how people respond to messages about ageing, attractiveness, sleep, cellulite and female confidence. The results raise an important question for marketers: are we measuring the commercial value of a sale while ignoring what the advertising costs the person on the other side?
In this episode, we cover:
– How wellness brands use fear of ageing, shame and insecurity to attract attention
– What women and men really think about fear-based wellness advertising
– How synthetic audiences allow marketers to test advertising reactions in seconds
– Why scientific language can make weak or misleading claims feel more credible
– How performance algorithms can reward increasingly negative advertising
– The tension between short-term conversion and long-term brand integrity
– Why marketers should consider the cultural and emotional impact of their work

Advertising that sells through fear can leave vulnerable consumers feeling worse, even when it produces a conversion. Leanne demonstrates how Electric Twin creates digital replicas of real audiences, allowing marketers to run surveys, discussions and message testing with a reported average accuracy of 92%. As brands produce hundreds or even thousands of digital assets, marketers can become focused on feeding the algorithm rather than considering how each message affects the person seeing it. A critical listen for marketers interested in brand strategy, wellness marketing, synthetic research, AI in marketing, advertising ethics, consumer insight, marketing effectiveness, performance marketing and responsible brand building.
Timestamps

00:43 Modern wellness advertising and real consumer reactions
03:17 How Electric Twin’s synthetic audience platform works
04:58 Sarah Booth on Ancient + Brave and female confidence
06:25 Leanne Vic explains synthetic audiences
08:17 Why wellness advertising increasingly sells through fear
09:45 Testing a “fear of getting old” advertisement
13:14 How fear-based advertising makes women feel
14:49 Testing the “science of beauty sleep”
18:19 Would consumers actually click on the advertisement?
19:31 The regulatory challenge of digital wellness advertising
21:17 How algorithms create an advertising arms race
22:36 What marketers need to understand about cultural influence
24:00 Why designers think differently about human impact
25:00 Which brands represent female bravery?
27:12 What would make women feel braver?
29:00 Testing cellulite advertising with men
32:00 Can better evidence rescue a damaging advertisement?
34:22 What men think about the way women are marketed to
35:00 Testing a long-form menopause supplement advertisement
36:10 “Dangling hope in front of someone in pain”
36:37 Can platforms make their algorithms more positive?
37:00 Competing without using fear or shame
39:17 The responsibility marketers have for their work

This episode is in partnership with Electric Twin. Electric Twin is a synthetic audience platform that helps brands, marketers, product teams and insight professionals understand audiences, test ideas and explore consumer reactions in seconds.
Find out more at: https://www.electrictwin.com

That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners.
Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of The Singles on That’s What I Call Marketing, Conor Byrne is joined by Bella and Ed from Tracksuit to unpack the biggest marketing stories right now using brand tracking data. They dive into the AI brand wars between ChatGPT/OpenAI and Claude/Anthropic, including how Super Bowl advertising impacted awareness and consideration, and discuss how people use each tool for work vs personal life. The team shares Tracksuit’s acquisition of Hall, a Sydney startup that measures how brands show up in AI answers, helping marketers understand AI discoverability and sentiment. They also revisit American Eagle’s Sydney Sweeney campaign one year on (awareness gains vs declines in consideration and investigation), break down Norwegian Air’s playful British Airways newsjacking around Norway’s World Cup momentum, and explore Carlsberg’s revival of the “If Carlsberg Did…” platform and what it could mean for brand funnel performance.

01:05 Today’s Marketing Hot Topics
02:11 AI Brand Wars Data
05:27 Who Uses Claude vs ChatGPT
07:52 AI Use Cases and Model Fatigue
12:54 Tracking AI Visibility
17:31 American Eagle One Year Later
21:44 BA vs Norwegian Newsjacking
26:44 Carlsberg Revives Classic Platform

Check out tracksuit
That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What should marketers take from Cannes Lions once the presentations are over and the real work of planning for Q4 begins?

In this special crossover episode of That’s What I Call Marketing and The Sleeping Barber Podcast, System1’s Andrew Tindall and Vanessa Chin join Conor Byrne, Marc Binkley and V to explore what the latest marketing thinking means in practice for brands, agencies and creative teams.

The conversation begins with Mark Ritson and Byron Sharp’s Cannes debate, looking at where they agree, where important differences remain and why marketers need to go beyond familiar headlines on penetration, distinctiveness, consistency and brand purpose. Andrew and Vanessa discuss whether distinctiveness alone can drive growth, why differentiation still matters and how the search for “new news” can lead brands to abandon creative assets before they have built recognition.

The episode also examines how AI is changing advertising. Rather than removing people from the process, AI is becoming part of production, helping brands adapt and localise ideas more efficiently. The group considers Coca-Cola’s AI Christmas advertising, PepsiCo adapting Lay’s creative for Walkers in the UK, and why human judgement still matters. There are practical lessons on creator marketing, brand characters, fluent devices and staying consistent. Andrew explains why creators should be treated as creative partners who understand their platforms, not as interchangeable media assets.

The discussion then turns to audio and radio advertising. System1 research suggests campaigns using audio can produce stronger business effects, support profit and penetration, and reduce price sensitivity. The group explores sonic branding, jingles and why radio should not be treated only as a short-term performance channel.
Attention matters, but it is not the end goal. Andrew explains why marketers need to move from impressions, to attention, and ultimately to the brand memories advertising creates.

The episode closes with a practical Q4 playbook for Black Friday, Cyber Monday and Christmas. “Salesmanship” may deliver immediate conversion, but emotional “showmanship” builds memories, demand and pricing power. The lesson: focus on the feels, not only the deals.

CHAPTERS

03:24 Ritson and Sharp at Cannes
04:45 Distinctiveness versus differentiation
06:00 Is brand purpose outdated?
08:00 Why marketers struggle with consistency
11:05 Turning theory into growth
13:09 AI, creativity and human judgement
16:10 How PepsiCo uses AI in advertising
19:05 Why AI was quieter at Cannes
19:55 AI avatars and brand characters
22:01 Why marketers need to stay the course
22:54 When did a campaign become a media flight?
24:45 Turning Cannes insights into a Q4 plan
25:22 The “Double Double” audio research
28:04 Why audio matters
30:13 What makes an effective radio ad?
32:29 Why radio is more than a performance channel
34:00 Storytelling and creating an audio world
36:50 Should creators work across every channel?
38:00 What System1’s creator research found
40:54 Is Q4 the right time for a fluent device?
42:06 Moving from attention to brand memory
46:36 Can brands be built through Meta and TikTok?
48:49 Why brands need to appear early
50:02 The Q4 marketing playbook
50:43 Make people feel something
51:52 Black Friday: deals versus feels
52:23 Salesmanship, showmanship and short-term optimisation
54:48 What marketers can learn from Amazon
56:26 Feels, not deals
57:01 Why brands should re-air effective Christmas ads
58:00 Consumers do not get bored of good advertising

This episode was created in partnership with System1. Find out more at system1group.com.
Subscribe to That’s What I Call Marketing for more conversations on brand growth, marketing effectiveness and creative strategy.
That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.
Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.