ScaleX™ Insider Podcast

Stop wasting time on deals that will never close. Jonathan B. Smith (JBS), expert EOS implementer trained by Chris Voss, reveals the most effective question in sales negotiation: Proof of Life.
Are you being played for a fool? Are you just another bid, or are they actually going to consider you as a serious player for this business?
So many entrepreneurs say "we're going to get it, we're going to get it, we're going to get it"—then they don't get the deal.
THE PROOF OF LIFE QUESTION:
"Of all the people in the world that you could choose from, how did you decide to call me?"
Get them to start providing you the reason and rationale why they called you.
PROOF OF LIFE (You're a Serious Player):
If they provide lots of details:
"You're the best at this"
"We got referred in"
"We need the specific product you have"
This is proof of life. They're genuinely considering you.
NOT PROOF OF LIFE (You're Just Another Bid):
If you get:
"We have to have three bids"
"You were in our system"
"You were in our purchasing system"
"We were hoping you could give us a bid on red staplers"
That's NOT proof of life. You're just filling their quota.
WHY IT'S CALLED PROOF OF LIFE:
We want to know if the hostages are dead or alive.
Are you being played for the fool in the negotiation?
This is one of the more advanced skills in Fight Less, Win More—but it's critical for sales.
THE SALES REALITY:
Stop chasing deals where you're just another bid.
Use Proof of Life early to qualify whether you're actually in the running or just helping them meet procurement requirements.
Save your time. Focus on deals where you're genuinely being considered.
ABOUT JONATHAN B. SMITH (JBS):
Jonathan is an expert EOS implementer with over 1,500 sessions across 150+ companies. Author of Fight Less, Win More: The Missing Manual for Never Split the Difference. Trained by Chris Voss and the Black Swan Group in tactical empathy and negotiation. Proof of Life is one of the advanced skills from his book—designed to help entrepreneurs stop wasting time on dead deals.
CONNECT WITH JOHN B SMITH:
Website: staycuriousjbs.com Book: Fight Less, Win More: The Missing Manual for Never Split the Difference LinkedIn: John B Smith
SCALEX AND SIMPLE SCALING:
Book: Simple Scaling: 10 Proven Principles to 10x Your Business ScaleX Elevate: https://simplescaling.com/scalex-elevate (for businesses under £2M revenue) ScaleX Accelerator: https://simplescaling.com/scalex-accelerator-programme (for businesses over £2M revenue) Website: https://simplescaling.com Email: [email protected] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/simple-scaling Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/simplescaling
ScaleX Insider is a 12-month journey for ambitious SME leaders combining strategy, mindset work, and peer support to break through revenue plateaus.
Podcast Host: Brendan McGurgan, Co-Founder Simple Scaling

Master tactical empathy with the Core Four foundational tools. Jonathan B. Smith (JBS), expert EOS implementer trained by Chris Voss, reveals the four skills that form the basis for every successful negotiation.
If you just learn these four tools, you have the foundation for tactical empathy. Everything else builds on this.
THE CORE FOUR:
#1: LABELS
Start with: "It sounds like..." "It looks like..." "It feels like..." "It seems like..."
You have an intuition about what's going on—verbalise that intuition.
Label the LATENT dynamic, not the presenting dynamic.
Wrong: "It seems like you're angry" (makes them more angry)
Right: "It seems like you're having a bad day" (they tell you why)
Labels are 3-7 words maximum. After you drop a label, use DYNAMIC SILENCE. Don't use the word "but." Keep it simple so people can respond.
#2: MIRRORS
Repeat the last 3-5 words someone said.
Downward inflection: "I heard you" (statement)
Upward inflection: "Tell me more" (question)
Example: "Slow is smooth?" vs "Slow is smooth."
Gets someone to continue talking and provide further details on their thinking.
#3: DYNAMIC SILENCE
After a label or mirror, WAIT for the other party to respond.
We're impatient. We want our response. We want our point across. Everyone thinks we have to go faster.
But the silence actually makes it go FASTER because you get someone to respond quickly.
People are less likely to modulate how much information they provide with a label. They don't feel backed into a corner.
The silence allows them to respond and think.
We have to slow down to go fast.
"Slow is smooth and smooth is fast."
#4: THREE TONES (Never Use Assertive)
80% of the time: Accommodator tone (happy, upbeat, positive)
20% of the time: Late night FM DJ voice (specific, deliberate)
NEVER: Assertive tone
When's the last time the assertive tone got you what you want? With your hotel upgrade? Never.
You're just hoping the person in front of you uses it so you can say: "I promise I'm not going to be as difficult as that last person."
THE DYNAMIC SILENCE CHALLENGE:
We're all uncomfortable with silence. Why?
We're impatient. We want to get our response and point across. Everyone's in a rush.
But silence makes it go faster because you get someone to respond quickly.
It's very hard in the beginning to use dynamic silence—but it's critical. If you don't use it, the label won't soak in and you'll just step right on your label.
ABOUT JONATHAN B SMITH (JBS):
John B Smith is an expert EOS implementer with over 1,500 sessions across 150+ companies. Author of Fight Less, Win More: The Missing Manual for Never Split the Difference. Trained by Chris Voss and the Black Swan Group in tactical empathy and negotiation. The Core Four are the foundational tools from his book—designed to give leaders the basis for tactical empathy practice.
CONNECT WITH JONATHAN:
Website: staycuriousjbs.com
Book: Fight Less, Win More: The Missing Manual for Never Split the Difference
LinkedIn: John B Smith
SCALEX AND SIMPLE SCALING:
Book: Simple Scaling: 10 Proven Principles to 10x Your Business
ScaleX Elevate: https://simplescaling.com/scalex-elevate (for businesses under £2M revenue)
ScaleX Accelerator: https://simplescaling.com/scalex-accelerator-programme (for businesses over £2M revenue)
Website: https://simplescaling.com
Email: [email protected]
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/simple-scaling
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/simplescaling
ScaleX Insider is a 12-month journey for ambitious SME leaders combining strategy, mindset work, and peer support to break through revenue plateaus.
Podcast Host: Brendan McGurgan, Co-Founder Simple Scaling

Build a business that serves your life, not enslaves you.
Jonathan B. Smith (JBS), expert EOS implementer, shares how most entrepreneurs discover years later their business is choking them because they never stopped to figure out what they want from life.
Scaling with purpose means building a business that helps you get what you want out of life, not making you a slave to your business.
THE PROBLEM:
Entrepreneurs start a business. Years later, they discover the business is choking them.
They never stopped to figure out what they want out of the business and life. Very few know what they actually want.
SCALING WITH PURPOSE:
Building a business that helps you get what you want out of life, NOT building a business that makes you a slave.
How? Right team Right business Right markets Right capital structure Proper conversations Good life at home Take care of health
At EOS we call it: The EOS Life.
COACH'S LIFE-CHANGING ADVICE:
"Decide what life you want and then build a business around that life" VERSUS "Having a business and letting that dictate your life"
THE REFLECTION:
If your business is not allowing you to live the life you want, reflect on what life you want.
Then figure out how to:
Hire people

Adjust your business

Sell your business

Buy a new business

Change your business

THE REALISATION:
Most people don't realise they have a choice.
You are NOT trapped. You ARE trapped by your own mind thinking there are no other opportunities.
FREEDOM SQUARED TOOL:
Jonathan built the Freedom Squared Tool with eight elements from Strategic Coach.
Freedom Squared means:
Decide who you live with
What you want to do
When you want to do it
Where you do it
How it works
Sounds crazy to a lot of people, but you can intentionally build that life.
QUESTIONS TO ASK:
What life do you want? How does your business fit that life? Are you a slave to your business or does your business serve you?
KEY INSIGHT:
Your business should help you get what you want out of life.
If your business is not allowing you to live the life you want, reflect and make changes.
You have a choice: hire, adjust, sell, buy new, or change.
Don't be a slave to the business you built.
ABOUT Jonathan B. Smith:
Expert EOS implementer with 1500+ sessions across 150+ companies.
Author of Fight Less Win More: The Missing Manual for Never Split the Difference.
Trained by Chris Voss and the Black Swan Group in tactical empathy and negotiation.
CONNECT WITH Jonathan B. Smith:
Website: https://staycuriousjbs.com Book: Fight Less Win More
SCALEX AND SIMPLE SCALING:
Book: Simple Scaling: 10 Proven Principles to 10x Your Business ScaleX Elevate: https://simplescaling.com/scalex-elevate ScaleX Accelerator: https://simplescaling.com/scalex-accelerator-programme Website: https://simplescaling.com Email: [email protected]
Podcast Host: Brendan McGurgan, Co-Founder, Simple Scaling

In this clip from ScaleX™ Insider, Brian Solis breaks down what leaders really need to understand about AI in 2026 — and why most people are approaching it the wrong way.
Rather than chasing tools or fearing disruption, Brian explains that AI is best understood as a thinking partner. One that helps founders test ideas, expand their thinking, and move faster without waiting for permission, funding, or technical expertise.
This conversation reframes AI not as technology to master, but as a mindset shift — one that rewards curiosity, experimentation, and a willingness to learn in public.
 
KEY INSIGHTS
AI is not a tool — it's a collaborator for thinking, testing, and learning

Leaders must learn to articulate where they are and where they want to go

You no longer need to hire before you experiment — AI lets you prototype ideas instantly

The future belongs to those who can think, test, and adapt quickly

Scaling today means scaling your imagination before scaling your team



THE CRITICAL LESSON
AI doesn't reward expertise — it rewards curiosity.
Brian explains that the biggest limitation leaders face is not technology, but mindset. Those who approach AI with a beginner's mind unlock far more value than those who try to use it as an efficiency tool.
The real power of AI lies in helping you become someone you couldn't be before — testing ideas, building tools, and exploring opportunities that once required entire teams.
 
PRACTICAL TAKEAWAYS FOR LEADERS
Treat AI as a thinking partner, not a shortcut



Use AI to test ideas before investing time or money



Let AI help you explore possibilities, not just optimise tasks



Build the habit of asking better questions, not finding faster answers



Stay open — the moment you think you "know," you stop learning



WHY THIS MATTERS FOR FOUNDERS & SCALING LEADERS
Brian highlights that growth today is no longer about doing more — it's about thinking differently.
Leaders who succeed in the next decade will be those who:
Embrace continuous learning

Use AI to extend their capabilities

Stay adaptable as tools, markets, and expectations evolve

Approach uncertainty with curiosity rather than fear



AI is not the destination.
It's the accelerator.
 
CONNECT WITH BRIAN SOLIS
🔗Website: https://www.briansolis.com
🔗LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briansolis
 Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0DCL6RLV6

In this ScaleX™ Insider clip, Brian Solis unpacks one of the most overlooked reasons people feel stuck despite working hard: they're saying yes to the wrong things.
Drawing from his books Life Scale and Mind Shift, Brian explains why progress isn't about doing more — it's about aligning daily actions with long-term direction. Without that alignment, even the busiest people slowly drift further away from the life and impact they want.
KEY INSIGHTS
Being busy often masks a lack of direction

Progress only happens when daily actions align with long-term vision

Distractions don't just waste time — they quietly reshape priorities

What you say yes to determines what you say no to

Focus isn't about discipline — it's about awareness

Most people don't fail from lack of effort, but from lack of clarity

THE CORE LESSON
The real non-negotiable isn't productivity — it's intention.
Brian explains that true progress begins when you stop reacting to noise and start consciously choosing what deserves your time, energy, and attention. Without that filter, even meaningful effort leads you in the wrong direction.
This is where Life Scale and Mind Shift intersect: understanding how algorithms, habits, and modern life quietly pull us off course — and how to regain control.
PRACTICAL TAKEAWAYS
Audit where your time actually goes

Track distractions the same way you track tasks

Ask: "Is this moving me closer to the life I want?"

Reduce noise before adding more tools

Treat focus as a daily decision, not a personality trait

WHY THIS MATTERS FOR LEADERS
For founders, operators, and high performers, mindset is the multiplier.
If your thinking is scattered, your strategy will be too. If your focus is intentional, everything else compounds faster.
As Brian explains, mindset isn't soft — it's the foundation for scale.
ABOUT BRIAN SOLIS
Brian Solis is a world-renowned digital anthropologist, futurist, and Head of Global Innovation at ServiceNow.
He advises global organisations on digital transformation, AI, innovation, leadership, and the future of work. Brian has published over 60 research reports and several bestselling books, including Life Scale and Mindshift.
His work has been featured in Harvard Business Review, Forbes, CIO, and more. He is a former LinkedIn Top Influencer and is followed by over 800,000 people worldwide.
CONNECT WITH BRIAN SOLIS
🔗Website: https://www.briansolis.com
🔗LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briansolis
Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0DCL6RLV6