The Product Design for Learning Podcast

• EP. 7 You Say You Want an L&D Revolution | Guest: David James

  Leadership in Learning: The Future of Impactful L&D – Episode 7 with David JamesEpisode SummaryIn Episode 7 of the Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur welcomes David James, Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning and host of The Learning and Development Podcast. The episode dives deep into the concept of "Leadership in Learning," exploring how L&D professionals can move beyond process-driven approaches to become strategic partners driving real impact within organizations. David shares insights on redefining leadership in L&D, addressing skills gaps, and combating the "conspiracy of convenience" that undermines the function's potential.Guest ProfileDavid James is a seasoned L&D leader with over 25 years of experience. As Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, he focuses on enabling organizations to close skills gaps effectively. He also hosts the popular Learning and Development Podcast, where he engages with thought leaders to challenge conventional approaches and inspire transformation in the industry.Key TakeawaysLeadership in Learning: True leadership in L&D requires recognizing the limitations of the status quo and driving change toward impactful practices that align with organizational goals."Conspiracy of Convenience": The entrenched status quo often leads to ineffective learning programs. Breaking this cycle requires L&D leaders to challenge stakeholders and push for meaningful change.Purpose-Driven L&D: Defining a clear purpose and aligning strategies with organizational priorities is essential for building credibility and achieving results.Earning Credibility: Unlike other C-suite roles, L&D leaders must actively prove their worth through measurable impact, moving beyond popularity metrics.Future of L&D: The shift toward skills-based learning and internal mobility highlights the importance of proactive, strategic L&D leadership to address evolving workplace demands.Questions AskedWhat does "leadership in learning" mean to you?David emphasizes that leadership in L&D is about moving beyond the expected and requested roles to set a vision that inspires stakeholders. It involves recognizing where the organization is, knowing what needs to be done, and taking strategic actions to benefit employees, teams, and the company.What are common barriers to implementing impactful L&D strategies?David introduces the concept of the "conspiracy of convenience," where stakeholders cling to ineffective models like traditional training because they’re easy to understand and implement. Breaking this pattern requires courage, analysis, and a willingness to challenge the norm.Why is L&D often seen as a "popular but not credible" function?David explains that many L&D functions focus on popularity metrics—like attendance and satisfaction surveys—that don’t demonstrate true impact. To earn credibility, L&D must focus on measurable outcomes such as skills development and business results.What differentiates successful L&D leaders?Successful leaders redefine their role by building partnerships, focusing on skills development, and aligning their strategies with organizational goals. Persistence, strategic consulting, and influencing stakeholders are key traits of impactful leaders.How can L&D professionals overcome execution challenges?David suggests starting with self-reflection on purpose and assessing organizational readiness. L&D professionals should focus on areas they can influence, use data to measure success, and communicate their impact to stakeholders effectively.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Welcome and...

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• Ep. 6 The Art Formerly Known as Production

  Mastering Production in Learning Design: Insights from Matt Ash of ChangeablyEpisode SummaryIn this episode of The Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur delves into the nuances of production with Matt Ash, founder of Changeably and a seasoned expert in learning design. Together, they explore how to streamline production processes while maintaining creativity and quality, even when faced with challenging projects like compliance training. Matt shares lessons from his career, including award-winning projects and insights on balancing innovation with client expectations.Guest ProfileMatt Ash is a consultant, strategist, and founder of Changeably. With a background in learning design, Matt has spearheaded creative, award-winning projects, including films recognized at the Cannes Corporate Film Festival and New York Film Festival. He is an advocate for using agile methodologies in learning design to improve efficiency and elevate content quality.Key TakeawaysBalancing Creativity and Structure: Production thrives on creative freedom but demands clear scope, deadlines, and budget to avoid pitfalls.Client Collaboration: Effective communication and stakeholder involvement at every stage are key to navigating changes and ensuring alignment with project goals.Agile Production: Iterative approaches, rooted in discovery and regular review, can prevent scope creep and enhance output quality.Challenging Compliance Norms: Even compliance projects can be engaging and innovative when approached with an audience-focused mindset.Questions ExploredWho is Matt Ash, and what’s his approach to production in learning design?Matt shared his journey from creating early-stage e-learning to scaling an agency team and pioneering agile methodologies. His production philosophy focuses on consistency, audience-centric creativity, and aligning with business goals.How do you manage a multidisciplinary production team?Matt discussed the importance of giving filmmakers, developers, and designers creative freedom while aligning their outputs with project goals. This approach fosters innovation even in traditionally rigid fields like compliance.How can compliance learning be exciting and impactful?Using an audience-centric approach, Matt transformed compliance content into compelling narratives, earning prestigious awards. His work exemplifies how purpose-driven storytelling can elevate even the most mundane subjects.What are the essential pre-production elements for success?Matt emphasized the need for clearly defined scope, deadlines, and budgets. He advised conducting a robust discovery phase and identifying key goals to prevent misalignment during production.How do you handle mid-production changes?Flexibility and open communication are crucial. Matt shared how referencing agreed-upon goals and involving all stakeholders early on helps mitigate costly scope creep.What advice would you give to someone struggling with production?Matt recommended following the same structured processes you advise clients to use—pausing to reflect, sharing challenges, and seeking alternative perspectives to resolve issues effectively.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – IntroductionGreg introduces Matt Ash and the episode’s focus on the art and science of production in learning design.[01:34] – Matt Ash’s JourneyMatt recounts his career highlights, including agile experimentation and managing award-winning creative teams.[04:43] – Making Compliance CreativeThe shift from dull compliance content to engaging, award-winning films is explored.[09:32] – Overcoming Creative Challenges with ClientsMatt shares...

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• Ep. 5 Agency 007: Partnerships

  Navigating the Agency and In-House Dynamic: Insights from Jess AndrewsEpisode SummaryIn this episode of the Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur sits down with Jess Andrews, a seasoned learning and development professional with experience on both the agency and in-house sides of the table. Jess shares insights into the nuanced relationships between agencies and internal teams, the challenges of making an impact in learning and development (L&D), and how to foster collaboration for successful projects.Guest ProfileJess AndrewsJess is a learning and development expert who recently transitioned to an in-house role at Multiverse after an impactful career working agency-side. She brings a wealth of experience in managing creative projects, building strong client relationships, and implementing innovative L&D solutions.Key TakeawaysWhy Do Internal Learning Teams Use External Agencies?Logistical Support: Small teams often need help with scalability and quick turnarounds.Creativity and Industry Expertise: Agencies bring fresh ideas, innovative solutions, and cross-industry insights.Differences Between Agency and In-House WorkAgency Work: Offers end-to-end control and responsibility but can be overwhelming due to multitasking.In-House Work: Requires letting go of control in some areas and focusing on influencing internal stakeholders.What Makes an Agency-In-House Relationship Successful?Clear Communication: Regular check-ins and transparent discussions about goals and challenges.Relationship Building: Understanding each other's work styles and stress points fosters collaboration.Alignment on Goals: Both parties must be clear about the ultimate objectives to avoid misaligned priorities.Challenges in Achieving ImpactMisalignment on goals or poor initial scoping can derail projects.Agencies need to balance challenging their clients with respecting internal constraints.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – IntroductionGreg Arthur introduces the podcast and welcomes Jess Andrews to discuss the relationship between internal teams and agencies.[04:30] – Why Internal Teams Use AgenciesJess explains the dual reasons of logistical support and creative innovation for seeking external help.[07:20] – Transitioning from Agency to In-HouseJess shares her experiences adjusting to the in-house mindset and managing internal stakeholders.[14:24] – Building a Successful Agency-In-House RelationshipDiscussion on the importance of understanding communication styles, stressors, and shared goals.[22:05] – What Does It Mean to Make an Impact?Jess highlights the role of agencies in helping organizations achieve quick, measurable outcomes.[25:09] – When Agency Use Can Hinder GoalsExploration of how poor scoping and internal biases can undermine a project’s success.[33:15] – Managing Differing Opinions and Data ConflictsJess and Greg share strategies for reconciling conflicting recommendations between teams.[42:59] – Advice for Agencies and Internal TeamsJess offers practical advice for strengthening collaboration and overcoming challenges.[47:41] – The Future of Agencies and Internal TeamsJess speculates on evolving dynamics, including potential synergies with contractors and the growing marriage of design and learning.About the PodcastThe Product Design for Learning Podcast delves into the art and science of designing impactful learning solutions. Each episode features industry...

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• Ep. 4 MVPs - Success in Disguise

  Mastering MVPs: Insights on Testing and Validation in Product Design with Patrick MullarkeyEpisode SummaryIn this episode of the Product Design For Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur sits down with Patrick Mullarkey, Senior Leadership Development Manager at Staffbase, to discuss the pivotal role of Minimum Viable Products (MVPs) in the product design process. From idea validation to scalability, Patrick shares his expertise in creating learning strategies that drive meaningful outcomes. This engaging conversation highlights the importance of feedback, iteration, and humility in both product design and leadership development.Guest ProfilePatrick Mullarkey is the Senior Leadership Development Manager at Staffbase and an accomplished learning and leadership professional. With over 12 years of experience, he specializes in designing strategies that empower leaders and teams to excel. Passionate about bridging the gap between concept and execution, Patrick brings a wealth of knowledge on MVPs and their role in fostering innovation.Key TakeawaysMVPs as Testing Grounds: MVPs are essential for moving ideas from theory to practice, allowing teams to validate concepts and uncover user needs.The Value of Feedback: Accepting constructive criticism and iterating on it leads to better, user-aligned solutions.Scaling with MVPs: By testing early, teams can address scalability issues and resource requirements before full implementation.Leadership Training Through MVPs: Creating impactful, emotionally engaging scenarios in leadership programs is key to fostering behavioral change.Key Questions and InsightsHow would you summarize the MVP phase?MVPs are a critical "moment of truth," transitioning ideas into practical tests to validate whether they solve real user problems.What are examples of good and bad MVPs?Good: Quickly sketching ideas for immediate feedback and collaboration.Bad: Overly polished prototypes that discourage user engagement or fail to address alignment issues early.How basic can an MVP be?An MVP should go beyond static presentations to interactive prototypes that allow users to experience and engage with the concept.Why is an MVP phase essential?Without MVPs, teams risk wasting resources on unvalidated solutions. MVPs provide clarity on direction, scalability, and feasibility.How do you incorporate leadership development into MVPs?Using scenarios that evoke emotional responses helps participants practice skills in a realistic, impactful way, leading to better retention and application.What if an MVP fails?Failure in MVPs isn’t a setback but a learning opportunity. Acting on feedback and having a clear plan for the next steps builds trust and ensures progress.What tools or advice can help with MVPs?Embrace ambiguity and view it as a sign of progress.Focus on the process rather than the final product.Use frameworks that prioritize iterative feedback and flexibility.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Introduction and WelcomeGreg introduces the episode and guest Patrick Mullarkey, setting the stage for a deep dive into MVPs.[02:13] – The MVP Phase: Moving from Idea to RealityPatrick explains the role of MVPs in bridging the gap between concepts and practical application.[05:16] – Real-World MVP ExamplesPatrick shares lessons from both successful and less effective MVPs, emphasizing the importance of alignment and feedback.[09:54] – Overcoming Common RoadblocksThe discussion highlights challenges like over-polished...

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• Ep. 3 The End of L&D?

  The End of L&D? Reimagining Learning and Development in a Changing WorkplaceEpisode SummaryIn this episode of the Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur is joined by Toby Kheng to discuss the provocative topic, "The End of L&D." They explore the challenges, limitations, and future possibilities of Learning and Development (L&D) as it currently operates within organisations. Toby argues for a systemic overhaul, where L&D evolves into a more holistic "employee experience design" function, integrating insights from HR, internal communications, and beyond.Key themes include the role of data, the value of product and service design in learning, and the imperative to break down silos for more effective and engaging employee solutions.Guest ProfileToby KhengWith over 14 years in L&D, Toby is a thought leader passionate about transforming organisational learning. He co-founded Freeformers, focusing on innovative, human-centred approaches to employee experience design. Toby’s expertise spans L&D, internal communications, and organisational strategy.Key TakeawaysWhat is wrong with the traditional L&D model?L&D often functions in a silo, designing training that validates its existence rather than addressing broader organisational needs. This narrow focus leads to duplication, inefficiency, and missed opportunities to impact engagement, productivity, and profitability.How can L&D adopt a product and service design mindset?Treat employment as a product, designing for the entire employee journey.Borrow frameworks from customer experience design, such as human-centred design and design thinking.Break down silos between HR, internal communications, and recruitment to create cohesive employee experiences.What is the role of data in the future of L&D?Toby highlights the need for consistent, meaningful data collection across departments to inform decision-making. Without integrated insights from recruitment, HR, and internal comms, L&D operates in an informational vacuum.Why is collaboration across departments critical?Getting stakeholders like HR, recruitment, and communications into one room can reveal overlaps, reduce duplication, and spark innovative solutions. The future of L&D lies in its ability to lead this integration.What’s next for L&D in the next 10-20 years?By 2030: Incremental improvements with AI and tech adoption but largely within the current framework.By 2040: Transformation driven by small-to-medium businesses adopting holistic employee experience models, influencing larger corporations to follow suit.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Introduction: The Clickbait TitleGreg introduces the podcast and Toby, setting the stage for the discussion on the potential "end" of L&D.[01:00] – What’s Broken in L&D?Toby shares his critiques of traditional L&D models and the limitations of siloed functions.[02:30] – Evolution or Revolution?Greg and Toby debate whether the future of L&D is a gradual evolution or a complete overhaul.[05:30] – Applying Product and Service Design to L&DToby explains how frameworks like human-centred design and the double diamond can transform learning initiatives.[12:00] – The Role of Data in Employee Experience DesignHow can L&D leverage data from across the business to create better solutions?[20:00] – Breaking Down Silos: Why...

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