The RAG Podcast - Recruitment Agency Growth Podcast

In 2022, EVONA had eighty staff, a Manchester office, a six-hundred-thousand-pound monthly cost base, and had just spent three hundred thousand pounds flying the whole company to Monaco. Tom Kelly calls it the moment four first-time founders lost perspective.
What followed was one of the more honest rebuilds you will hear in recruitment. Contract team gone. Marketing team gone. Management team restructured. Tom moved to the US, took the wheel as sole decision-maker, and rebuilt around two metrics: twenty-five interviews per person per rolling four weeks, and a thirty-day close on every job.
Three years on, EVONA is projecting ten million pounds net fee income this year. Three and a half million EBITDA. Thirty-five people. Two inbound client enquiries arrive every single day.
Tom Kelly has been in the space sector since 2018. He has never taken outside investment. And last month was the largest in the company's history.
On this episode of The RAG Podcast, Tom breaks down exactly how they got there.
EVONA is now the dominant name in space sector recruitment. Ninety-five percent US clients. No cold outreach. No single client above nine percent of revenue. A thirty-two day average time to fill on roles that take competitors sixty.
Tom Kelly is thirty-nine. He does not have a rigid three-year exit plan, but he does think there is a short window, and he does believe AGI changes the calculus for anyone thinking about an acquisition in this space. What he is building now is the version of the business that is worth something, the lean, high-output, brand-trusted version that took cutting fifty people to find.
If you have ever wondered what it actually looks like to rebuild a recruitment business properly after it nearly breaks, this episode has the blueprint.

Episode Sponsor: Atlas
Admin is a massive waste of time. That's why there's Atlas, the AI-first recruitment platform built for modern agencies.
It doesn't only track CVs and calls. It remembers everything. Every email, every interview, every conversation. Instantly searchable, always available. And now, it's entering a whole new era.
With Atlas 2.0, you can ask anything and it delivers. With Magic Search, you speak and it listens. It finds the right candidates using real conversations, not simply look for keywords.
Atlas 2.0 also makes business development easier than ever. With Opportunities, you can track, manage and grow client relationships, powered by generative AI and built right into your workflow.
Need insights? Custom dashboards give you total visibility over your pipeline. And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported up to 41% EBITDA growth and an 85% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform.
No admin. No silos. No lost info. Nothing but faster shortlists, better hires and more time to focus on what actually drives revenue.
Atlas is your personal AI partner for modern recruiting.
Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive RAG listener offer at https://recruitwithatlas.com/therag/

Episode Sponsor: Hoxo
Every recruitment founder is investing in LinkedIn, but AI has turned templated posts and outreach into a commodity. When everyone sounds the same, the market stops listening. The recruiters winning now are the ones the market trusts.
At Hoxo we help recruitment founders become the most influential name in their niche, using AI to multiply output while trust stays the product. Our clients turn their existing networks into £100K to £300K in new billings within months. Watch the free RAG listener training to see how: https://hubs.ly/Q03lBpYC0

Mike Ames built his first recruitment business from scratch in 1989 with six months of industry experience and two partners. One of them died in a car accident after 18 months. He became MD. He had a breakdown. He rebuilt the business entirely around scalability, removed himself from the centre of it, and sold to a NYSE-listed company for £24 million at the age of 38.

He thought that would feel like the finish line. It didn't. Within six months he was so low he could only manage one task a day. His therapist's parting advice: "Well, Michael, just get a job and you'll be fine." So he started again at 38, built a second business, sold that to Harvey Nash in 2017, and spent the next fifteen years working out why most recruitment founders never build something that truly works for them.

"I'm having to live a lot of my life through my grandchildren because I miss my children. Don't be that guy, right?"

This week on The RAG Podcast, Mike Ames breaks down the PLW model: what a Profit, Lifestyle, Wealth recruitment business actually looks like, why the 360 model is structurally flawed, and what the "magic number" is that every founder should know before they spend another year grinding for a goal they have never properly calculated.
Mike Ames is not selling a formula for a nine-figure exit. He is arguing for something harder and rarer: a business that runs well, pays you properly, and leaves room for the life you are actually trying to live.

If you have ever wondered whether the business you are building is working for you or the other way around, this episode is the one.
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Episode Sponsor: Atlas
Admin is a massive waste of time. That's why there's Atlas, the AI-first recruitment platform built for modern agencies.
It doesn't only track CVs and calls. It remembers everything. Every email, every interview, every conversation. Instantly searchable, always available. And now, it's entering a whole new era.
With Atlas 2.0, you can ask anything and it delivers. With Magic Search, you speak and it listens. It finds the right candidates using real conversations, not simply keywords.
Atlas 2.0 also makes business development easier than ever. With Opportunities, you can track, manage and grow client relationships, powered by generative AI and built right into your workflow.
Need insights? Custom dashboards give you total visibility over your pipeline. And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported up to 41% EBITDA growth and an 85% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform.
No admin. No silos. No lost info. Nothing but faster shortlists, better hires and more time to focus on what actually drives revenue.
Atlas is your personal AI partner for modern recruiting.
Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive RAG listener offer at https://recruitwithatlas.com/therag/
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •
Episode Sponsor: Hoxo
Every recruitment founder is investing in LinkedIn. Most can't answer this: how much revenue is it actually bringing in? At Hoxo, we help recruitment founders build predictable revenue systems on LinkedIn. Our clients are turning LinkedIn into £100K-£300K in new billings within months. Fill in the form today at https://hubs.ly/Q03lBpYC0

At 28, Oliver Paull runs Rec Gen completely alone from his flat in London. £209K in year one at an 81% profit margin. £298K in year two. Past £270K already this year. Close to £800K in under three years, with no staff, no office and no cold client outreach.
It did not start that way. In his first recruitment role he was on target to bill £650K and leaving the office to have panic attacks three times a week. He quit to join his best mate Jez Heard's startup, Scale Genesis.
Two years later, in a phone call just before Christmas, Jez closed the company down and told him to start his own.
His dad, a jeweller, refused to lend him the £3,000 he asked for. "Do you believe enough in yourself to invest your own money to allow you to be successful?" He did. First deal: £27,000 in month one, closed standing at his breakfast bar.
On this episode of The RAG Podcast, Ollie breaks down exactly how one recruiter, a podcast and an AI stack replaced an entire agency.
Olly is not building headcount. He is building a brand, a system and a lifestyle, and the numbers say it is working.
If you have ever wondered whether you could build a serious recruitment business completely alone, this episode has the blueprint.
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Episode Sponsor: Atlas
Admin is a massive waste of time. That's why there's Atlas, the AI-first recruitment platform built for modern agencies.
It doesn't only track CVs and calls. It remembers everything. Every email, every interview, every conversation. Instantly searchable, always available. And now, it's entering a whole new era.
With Atlas 2.0, you can ask anything and it delivers. With Magic Search, you speak and it listens. It finds the right candidates using real conversations, not simply look for keywords.
Atlas 2.0 also makes business development easier than ever. With Opportunities, you can track, manage and grow client relationships, powered by generative AI and built right into your workflow.
Need insights? Custom dashboards give you total visibility over your pipeline. And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported up to 41% EBITDA growth and an 85% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform.
No admin. No silos. No lost info. Nothing but faster shortlists, better hires and more time to focus on what actually drives revenue.
Atlas is your personal AI partner for modern recruiting.
Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive RAG listener offer at https://recruitwithatlas.com/therag/
--------------------------------------------------
Episode Sponsor: Hoxo
Every recruitment founder is investing in LinkedIn, but AI has turned templated posts and outreach into a commodity. When everyone sounds the same, the market stops listening. The recruiters winning now are the ones the market trusts.
At Hoxo we help recruitment founders become the most influential name in their niche, using AI to multiply output while trust stays the product. Our clients turn their existing networks into £100K to £300K in new billings within months. Watch the free RAG listener training to see how: https://hubs.ly/Q03lBpYC0

Mathew Gollop found Hong Kong in the back of Recruiter magazine. A glossy advert, a Chinese temple, a palm tree. He flew out, signed the contract, and landed in February 2001.
The dot-com bubble had just burst. Then 9/11. Then SARS.
Within a year the founder wanted out, and Mathew took the business over. It was the only way to keep his job.
When the market finally turned, it turned hard. Connected Group went from 7 people to 85, across 5 offices inside 5 years.
Then the financial crisis hit. £800k gone in little over a year. Six months of runway. An investor brought in, his shares diluted, offices closed one by one.
“I had dumb confidence, I think, at that time.”
On this episode of The RAG Podcast, Mathew Gollop breaks down the full arc. The scale, the near collapse, and the decision that rebuilt the business: giving recruitment away for free.
Mathew is the first to admit he loved running 85 people across five offices, and wasn't actually good at it.
If you have ever wondered whether purpose can survive a brutal market, this episode has the blueprint.
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Episode Sponsor: Atlas
Admin is a massive waste of time. That's why there's Atlas, the AI-first recruitment platform built for modern agencies.
It doesn't only track CVs and calls. It remembers everything. Every email, every interview, every conversation. Instantly searchable, always available. And now, it's entering a whole new era.
With Atlas 2.0, you can ask anything and it delivers. With Magic Search, you speak and it listens. It finds the right candidates using real conversations, not simply look for keywords.
Atlas 2.0 also makes business development easier than ever. With Opportunities, you can track, manage and grow client relationships, powered by generative AI and built right into your workflow.
Need insights? Custom dashboards give you total visibility over your pipeline. And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported up to 41% EBITDA growth and an 85% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform.
No admin. No silos. No lost info. Nothing but faster shortlists, better hires and more time to focus on what actually drives revenue.
Atlas is your personal AI partner for modern recruiting.
Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive RAG listener offer at https://recruitwithatlas.com/therag/
------------------------------------------
Episode Sponsor: Hoxo
Every recruitment founder is investing in LinkedIn, but AI has turned templated posts and outreach into a commodity. When everyone sounds the same, the market stops listening. The recruiters winning now are the ones the market trusts.
At Hoxo we help recruitment founders become the most influential name in their niche, using AI to multiply output while trust stays the product. Our clients turn their existing networks into £100K to £300K in new billings within months. Watch the free RAG listener training to see how: https://hubs.ly/Q03lBpYC0

Greg Fischer did not plan to spend ten years in recruitment. He joined a solo healthcare practice in LA as employee number one, figured it would pay the bills, and planned to open a gym someday. He never left.
Instead he built one of the most profitable staffing businesses in the US. $4.2 million in NFI, $1.4 million net profit. 38 people and a seven-figure equity stake with a $50 million exit on the horizon.
But he walked away with nothing!
The push toward the exit had quietly changed how the business ran. “I think we started looking at people as much more like resources and just a means to an end than actually people.” Greg had spent a decade building his career on the opposite belief. But the drift was so gradual he hadn’t noticed it.
“I couldn’t be the person I wanted to be and be in a good, healthy working dynamic. It was going to be one or the other.”
On this episode of The RAG Podcast, Greg Fischer, founder of Well Oiled Machine, tells the full story. The gym that cost him $150,000. The 10 years building someone else’s company. The walk away. And how he built a lean, profitable rec-to-rec from a mountain town in Colorado with no cold outbound and twenty clients in year one.
Greg Fischer is not chasing the big exit this time. He is building something small, profitable, and built entirely around the person he decided he wanted to be.
If you have ever wondered what it actually costs to chase a number, and whether the person collecting it is still someone you recognise, this episode has the blueprint.
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Episode Sponsor: Atlas
Admin is a massive waste of time. That's why there's Atlas, the AI-first recruitment platform built for modern agencies.
It doesn't only track CVs and calls. It remembers everything. Every email, every interview, every conversation. Instantly searchable, always available. And now, it's entering a whole new era.
With Atlas 2.0, you can ask anything and it delivers. With Magic Search, you speak and it listens. It finds the right candidates using real conversations, not simply look for keywords.
Atlas 2.0 also makes business development easier than ever. With Opportunities, you can track, manage and grow client relationships, powered by generative AI and built right into your workflow.
Need insights? Custom dashboards give you total visibility over your pipeline. And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported up to 41% EBITDA growth and an 85% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform.
No admin. No silos. No lost info. Nothing but faster shortlists, better hires and more time to focus on what actually drives revenue.
Atlas is your personal AI partner for modern recruiting.
Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive RAG listener offer at https://recruitwithatlas.com/therag/
Episode Sponsor: Hoxo
Every recruitment founder is investing in LinkedIn, but AI has turned templated posts and outreach into a commodity. When everyone sounds the same, the market stops listening. The recruiters winning now are the ones the market trusts.
At Hoxo we help recruitment founders become the most influential name in their niche, using AI to multiply output while trust stays the product. Our clients turn their existing networks into £100K to £300K in new billings within months. Watch the free RAG listener training to see how: https://hubs.ly/Q03lBpYC0