Better At Work with Cathal Quinlan

Why Culture Is the Most Powerful Force at Work (And How to Actually Change It) | Marcus Collins

What if the biggest thing shaping your experience at work isn't your manager, your workload, or your pay, but something most organisations can't even define?

In this episode, Cathal sits down with Marcus Collins, marketing professor at the University of Michigan's Ross School of Business, faculty director for the school's executive education partnership with Google, and faculty member at Harvard Extension School. Marcus has led digital strategy for Beyonce, worked on Nike and iTunes initiatives at Apple, and was recently awarded the Thinkers 50 Radar Distinguished Achievement Award.

His book For the Culture: The Power Behind the World's Most Successful Brands has been endorsed by Daniel Pink, Adam Grant, Amy Edmondson, and Katy Milkman. But don't let the word "marketing" fool you. This is a people book, and the conversation goes deep into what actually drives behaviour in any organisation.

Your team might be too big to do its best work.
In this week's Q&A, Cathal and Annette unpack their takeaways from Colin Fisher's research on what makes great teams. The number that stuck: 4.5 people. That's the ideal team size for real collaboration.
They dig into why most leadership meetings are too big to actually solve anything, the goal-setting mistake Colin calls "meet me in California tomorrow," and how the rise of individualism is quietly reshaping how we work in teams.
Annette connects Colin's findings to Google's Project Aristotle research, making the case that psychological safety matters more than ever in an era where "I" is replacing "we."
Plus, a listener shares an update on her career transition: from corporate burnout to building a portfolio that combines consulting with her real passion, acting.
Key topics: ideal team size, goal specificity, individualism vs collectivism, psychological safety, portfolio careers, career transitions.
Guest book recommendations from listeners:→ Working Identity by Herminia Ibarra→ Barking Up the Wrong Tree by Eric Barker
Got a career question? Head to betteratwork.net and send us a note.

Colin Fisher went from touring the world as a jazz trumpet player to becoming one of the leading researchers on group dynamics at UCL. His new book, The Collective Edge, reveals why the structure around your team matters more than the talent inside it.
In this episode, Colin shares the surprising research behind why orchestra musicians are less satisfied than prison guards, introduces the "California Tomorrow" problem for goal-setting, and explains why 93% of leadership teams can't even agree on how many people are on the team.
We also cover: the optimal team size (it's 4.6), how to "relaunch" teams that are stuck, why competition between teammates is playing with fire, and why the best coaches ask questions instead of diagnosing.
Key topics: group dynamics, psychological safety, team composition, goal clarity, conformity vs. creativity, competition, team coaching, relaunches.
Book: The Collective Edge by Colin Fisher (available now)Connect with Colin: colinamfisher.com | @ColinMFisher on LinkedIn, Instagram, X, BlueSky
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She left her job for a direct competitor. Six months in, she wants out.

This week's Q&A tackles a listener career dilemma that most of us have lived through — that sinking feeling when your new job isn't what you expected.

Amy's dealing with a culture mismatch, missing processes, and tanking motivation. Cathal and Annette share practical, honest advice drawing from their own career transitions.

Plus, Annette shares her three key takeaways from last week's conversation with Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez on project-driven organisations.

What we cover:→ Why the shock of changing organisations is bigger than we admit→ Finding one friend at work (and why it matters)→ The manager conversation most people never have→ How to protect your personal brand while job hunting→ Annette's sea view analogy — knowing what you need→ Antonio's balanced portfolio approach to projects

Mentioned: "Powered by Projects" by Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez
Next week: Colin Fisher — The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups

Send your career dilemma: betteratwork.net
Connect: @betteratworkpod on Instagram

Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez got fired for trying to bring project management to a top consulting firm.

Today, he's the most published expert on project management in Harvard Business Review and a Thinkers 50 global authority.

His new book "Powered by Projects" makes a bold claim: Every organization is project-driven, but the leaders don't know it.

IN THIS EPISODE:

The Origin Story:
- Almost went professional with Real Madrid (broke his knee)
- Got fired for pitching project management ("too tactical")
- The moment that sparked his mission

Getting HBR to Listen:
- Chased Harvard Business Review for 5 years
- The pitch: "Everyone's a project manager but nobody knows it"
- Became their most published PM expert

COVID Changed Everything:
- 3 days to do what used to take 3 months
- Laser-sharp focus on priorities
- Then we lost all that knowledge

The Project-Driven Organization:
- Shift from operations to transformation
- AI taking over operations; people work on projects
- "Back to normal" doesn't exist

Three Dimensions Framework:
1. Organization (culture, structure, governance)
2. Leadership (prioritization, HR, performance)
3. Value Creation (operations, execution)

Key Examples:
- Haier: Stop projects if no value in 3 months
- Fixed to exponential mindset
- Lean governance (match intensity to risk)

Best Advice:
- Do the hardest thing first every day
- Care about people (Marshall Goldsmith)
- Speak up constructively to leaders

KEY QUOTES:

"Your projects are your future. If you do them wrong, you put your future at risk."

"During COVID we did in 3 days what took 3 months. Then we went back to thousands of projects going nowhere."

"There's no back to normal. Change will happen."

About Antonio:
- Author: "Powered by Projects" & "HBR Project Management Handbook"
- Thinkers 50 ranking (2023, 2025)
- 25 years corporate (PwC, BNP Paribas, GSK)
- Website: antonionietorodriguez.com

Better at Work - Making work better, one conversation at a time.
New episodes every Thursday (+ special Sunday episodes!)

Hosted by Cathal Quinlan & Annette Sloan
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