Better At Work with Cathal Quinlan

Three years ago, Jennifer Moss came on Better at Work and gave us a line that stuck: we can't yoga our way out of a bad boss.
She's back. New book. Sharper take.

Jennifer is a burnout researcher and workplace culture strategist whose new book Why Are We Here? Creating a Work Culture Everybody Wants is her third on this space and one of the most useful Cathal has read this year.

In this conversation:
→ Why hope is collapsing at work, especially for under-25s (the World Happiness Report numbers are bleak)
→ Charles Snyder's hope theory and why agency is the piece most leaders miss
→ Why a compliant team isn't a loyal team, it's a team where hope is dying
→ The real cost of layoffs to the people who stay
→ Phobos and the 1 in 2 stat on AI anxiety from Microsoft's Work Trend Index
→ Why most micromanagers are frightened, not malicious
→ The 5-step compassionate leadership framework for AI transitions
→ Why "I'm an ally" framing has made diversity work fragile, and the reframe that fixes it
→ Optimal distinctiveness: fitting in and standing out at the same time
→ Three things leaders can do this week

Jennifer references Adam Grant, Lindsay McIntyre (formerly of Microsoft), Amy Gallo, Claudia Goldin, Robin Dunbar, and case studies from companies including Patagonia and Bright Horizons.

Find Jennifer at jennifer-moss.com and on LinkedIn.

Better at Work is hosted by Cathal Quinlan. New episodes every Thursday 7am.

If this one resonated, share it with someone on your team who needs it.
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What if the colleague who drives you up the wall is the one your organisation can't afford to lose?

Cathal and Annette are back for a listener-questions special, picking up where last week's conversation with David [surname TBC], former Head of Design at Tesla, left off. The idea that stuck: every team has Mad Hatters and White Rabbits. The Mad Hatters bring the wild, disruptive, sometimes maddening ideas. The White Rabbits keep things running on time. Most organisations over-index on one and quietly punish the other, which is exactly how you lose the creative edge that made you competitive in the first place.

Cathal shares why the framework hit home, why psychological safety matters more than surface-level politeness, and why "I don't agree with you" should be a welcome sentence in any good team. He also references his recent LinkedIn post on the thing nobody tells you when you become a manager for the first time: there's no handbook. You're going to get it wrong sometimes. That's fine, as long as you keep showing up and keep supporting the ideas.

Then the listener question. Michelle wrote in from retail. She's covering two to three people's roles on her normal shifts and being called in on her days off. She's drained. She can't say no. She's breaking. Annette and Cathal unpack it honestly and the reframe is the gold: the days-off problem isn't the real problem. The root cause is the workload. And there's a way to raise it with her manager that doesn't torch the relationship, with a Plan B ready if it doesn't land.

Expect the glass-of-water stress analogy, a useful reframe on supporting failure at work, and a reminder that the people who held the retail and service economy together through Covid deserve better than being treated as infinitely elastic.

In this episode:
Why Mad Hatters and White Rabbits need each other
The LinkedIn post Cathal wrote about becoming a manager
Why feeling threatened by a different viewpoint is a trap
The glass of water and what stress does when you hold it too long
How Michelle can raise the workload conversation, with a Plan B ready

Chapters:
00:00 Welcome back
01:35 Recap: David on curiosity at Tesla
05:38 The Mad Hatter and the White Rabbit
11:06 Why entrepreneurial thinkers need air cover
12:15 No handbook for being a manager
14:05 Why supporting failure is a leadership skill
15:03 Listener question: Michelle is running on empty
19:08 The glass of water test
20:14 How to reframe the conversation upwards
25:20 Respect for frontline workers
26:15 Next week: Jennifer Moss returns

Mentioned in this episode:
Last week's interview with David Imai, former Head of Design at Tesla (Apple, Spotify, YouTube)
Cathal's recent LinkedIn post on becoming a manager
Next week: Jennifer Moss, author of Why Are We Here? Creating a Work Culture Everyone Wants

Got a career dilemma of your own?

Send it in. We'll take it on anonymously, just like Michelle's. Details at betteratwork.net

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New episodes every Thursday on Apple, Spotify and YouTube. Hit follow so you don't miss Jennifer Moss.
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For 14 years, David Imai was a Design Director at Tesla, helping shape every car the company put on the road. Before that, GM and Opel. Today he advises the startups building the future of transport and robotics, and he's obsessed with one question: why do the best ideas keep dying inside big organisations?

His answer will surprise you.

Every team has two types of people. The Mad Hatter, who throws out wild, half-formed, maybe-genius ideas. And the White Rabbit, who gets things done on time. Most workplaces only protect one of them, and it's almost always the wrong one. That's why your best thinking never makes it out of the meeting room.

In this episode, David sits down with Cathal (his old London housemate, small world) to unpack the three things every curious culture needs. Why psychological safety isn't optional. Why Tesla sends its robotics engineers to Disney Imagineering. And the one habit that separates teams that innovate from teams that talk about innovating.

If you've ever walked out of work wondering why nobody listens to your best ideas, press play. This is the episode.
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In this week's listener questions episode, Cathal and Annette revisit three powerful ideas from their conversation with Marcus Collins.

First, Emile Durkheim's sociological definition of culture, and why Marcus uses it: culture isn't something we create as individuals, it creates us as social beings. Second, Marcus's definition of brands as "vessels of meaning," identifiable signifiers that conjure thoughts and feelings in the hearts and minds of people. And third, his surprisingly direct advice: if you don't believe in the brand you work for, leave.

Cathal also shares what he picked up from a recent TV media training session (including why you should never say "hello everybody"), and Annette updates on her Camino preparation with seven weeks to go.

Then they turn to something Cathal encountered across multiple conversations in Ireland over Easter: a sharp rise in abuse directed at retail, pharmacy, and healthcare workers. Signs in shops asking customers not to abuse staff. Young workers blindsided by aggression they never expected. Nurses flagging the link between understaffing and escalating hostility. They want to hear from you if you're experiencing this, especially if you work outside the typical corporate environment.

Finally, Better at Work is approaching the end of this series and planning the next season. If you've got a guest suggestion or a topic you'd love covered (someone already pitched workplace design), send it through to betteratwork.net.

Next week: David Eime joins to talk about how to create curiosity in the workplace. And Cathal has an unusual connection to him that he's keeping under wraps until then.

Key topics: culture as a system, brands as vessels of meaning, brand alignment, retail worker abuse, psychosocial hazards, customer service training, workplace design
New episodes every Thursday.

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Why Culture Is the Most Powerful Force at Work (And How to Actually Change It) | Marcus Collins

What if the biggest thing shaping your experience at work isn't your manager, your workload, or your pay, but something most organisations can't even define?

In this episode, Cathal sits down with Marcus Collins, marketing professor at the University of Michigan's Ross School of Business, faculty director for the school's executive education partnership with Google, and faculty member at Harvard Extension School. Marcus has led digital strategy for Beyonce, worked on Nike and iTunes initiatives at Apple, and was recently awarded the Thinkers 50 Radar Distinguished Achievement Award.

His book For the Culture: The Power Behind the World's Most Successful Brands has been endorsed by Daniel Pink, Adam Grant, Amy Edmondson, and Katy Milkman. But don't let the word "marketing" fool you. This is a people book, and the conversation goes deep into what actually drives behaviour in any organisation.
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