Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee

The Iran war is currently in a “mushy middle”, says Marko Papic, a macro and geopolitical expert at global investment research firm BCA Research, in the latest episode of Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee.
“[What] investors really have to focus on is not the verbiage, not the rhetoric, not the negotiations – but rather, the ships going in and out of Hormuz,” says Papic. While difficult to track, Hormuz has become a permeable membrane in the past few months. Combined with high oil reserves at the onset of the war, it’s helping prevent a calamitous global recession, and allowing time for the US and Iran to negotiate a truce.
Recalling Baron Rothschild’s famous utterance that you ‘buy on the sound of cannons and sell on the sound of trumpets’, Papic predicts problems for economies and markets after the conflict ends, with Europe probably already in a mild recession as a result of the war. Inflation will be stoked because government will attempt to refill depleted oil inventories, and the AI build-out is proving to be more inflationary than previously thought.
Papic, who is also the author of ‘Geopolitical Alpha: An Investment Framework for Predicting the Future’, also discusses mid-term elections in the US, the Federal Reserve, and China.

The US healthcare space is very interesting as far as real estate is concerned, says David Mihalick, co-head of global investments at Barings, a $500 billion alternative asset manager with expertise in credit, real assets and emerging markets. Mihalick points to demographic trends with an ageing population and the need for medical offices and senior housing as reasons why Barings is keen. “We think that creates a really compelling investment opportunity, and we’re looking to take advantage of that in our business.”
Mihalick, who once served as the head of private assets as well as head of US public fixed income and US high yield at Barings, expects to see more trading of private credit loans. On high-yield bonds, despite the low spreads, Mihalick contends that investors are getting appropriately compensated.
He also discusses infrastructure CLOs, a fairly novel structure that Barings is among the few firms involved in issuing, and private credit CLOs in Europe, where Barings is one of two managers currently issuing such deals.

“The dispersion in performance is becoming more visible, certainly to institutional investors,” says James Reynolds, global co-head of private credit at Goldman Sachs, on the latest episode of the Credit Exchange podcast with Lisa Lee.
“It’s clear, as you travel the world and speak to LPs, that there is a flight to quality happening. There is a flight to quality and scale,” he says.
The headlines around private credit are focused mainly on BDCs, which accounts for $400bn of the asset class and is located in the US. The distribution yields have come down, Reynolds notes, but they were perhaps inflated since, over the course of 2022 and 2023, interest rates went from zero to 5%. When the market dislocates, you tend to earn excess yield.
And there’s also momentum with institutional investors, who understand this is a pretty interesting moment to step into these markets, Reynolds says.
He sees opportunities “everywhere” – in direct lending senior, direct lending junior, capital solutions, anything around infrastructure, ABF, structured IG, and single-name corporate IG private. The first quarter of this year was the busiest ever for Goldman’s private credit team, and Reynolds expects the rest of the year to be busy as well.

“We’ve been very opportunistic about deployment in cycles or dislocations, which I think we’re in the very early innings of,” says Milwood Hobbs, Jr., deputy chief investment officer of Oaktree’s strategic credit platform, on the latest episode of Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee.
There were about USD 200bn of private credit loans inked in 2021 and 2022, when tech-related business valuations had reached all-time highs. Since then, interest rates went from zero to 5%, valuations came down, and free cash disappeared. And AI has made it more difficult to price the risk and support the businesses. These loans mature in 2027 and 2028, and that’s where Hobbs suggests “you should focus on potential dislocation.”
New private credit deals should be more sensible. The recent spate of withdrawals from BDCs means that marginal buyers are gone, which means higher spreads and more conservative capital structures. “I think that is good for the investor and good for the market,” Hobbs says.

“Everybody’s still searching for that easy button on AI,” says David Neuenhaus, US head of asset management and private equity at KPMG, on the latest edition of the Credit Exchange podcast with Lisa Lee, taped at the conclusion of the Milken Institute Global Conference in Beverly Hills.
Neuenhaus says AI was among the hottest topics at the conference, which featured a who’s-who of the finance world, as well as former NBA star Shaquille O’Neal and football legend Tom Brady.
“There are some early adopters – some folks that have, I think, figured out ways to apply it and get traction sooner,” Neuenhaus says.
On attracting retail cash, he says: “We are on a journey, a learning curve here.” There will be ways to address the liquidity needs of the average investor in a more sophisticated manner as we move forward, he says.
There’s a rush toward retail, but the first movers have already arrived and it’s a crowd movement. For new entrants, there are some cases where “it’s a hard look in the mirror,” because not every firm is prepared to chase retail money. “You’ve really got to get your house in order.”
Neuenhaus also shares his opinion on some good news on the regulatory front for asset managers and private equity firms: “I think that’s a nice direction of travel.”