Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee

This week on Credit Exchange, head of asset-backed finance at Apollo Global Management Bret Leas discusses the recent pullback in AI-related financing. Speaking with host Lisa Lee, Leas unpacks why credit markets are beginning to differentiate more sharply between data centres, chips, and cloud infrastructure, and details how Apollo’s approach to AI lending focuses on cashflow-generating assets rather than speculative bets.
The conversation also dives into the broader macro backdrop, including the role of AI in US economic growth, along with inflation, private credit, and the outlook for Europe. Leas discusses why he remains optimistic about long-term investment opportunities despite market volatility, and why fixed income offers compelling value in today’s environment.
He also breaks down Apollo’s innovative AMAPS platform (Apollo Multi-Asset Prime Securities), how it compares to the CLO market, why transparency matters in private credit, and why he believes the market for diversified credit securities could grow into the hundreds of billions of dollars.

“All roads lead back to AI,” says Matt Eagan, head of the full discretion team at Loomis Sayles & Company, in a special post-midterm election episode of Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee. Eagan, who oversees an $87 billion portfolio of fixed income and is a member of the firm’s board of directors, discusses how a dramatic shift in the political landscape could affect markets, inflation, interest rates, AI investment, and fixed income.
Eagan takes a contrarian view on the potential political headwinds from the election. He believes AI infrastructure investment will continue because both political parties view AI leadership as strategically important.
Eagan discusses why hyperscalers continue to dominate capital markets, and what investors should make of mounting debt issuance across the AI ecosystem. The conversation also dives into Federal Reserve independence, fiscal policy, geopolitical risks, and the growing divide between AI ‘whales’ and ‘guppies’ competing for capital.

Capital structures that are currently being created with lower leverage, in an environment where interest rates are not zero, will likely make for an excellent vintage, says Stephen Ketchum, founder and CEO of Sound Point Capital Management, a global credit specialist with USD 45bn in assets under management, on the latest episode of Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee.
Ketchum discusses the macro economy, inflation (and his long-held contention that we are in a higher-for-longer environment), and artificial intelligence.
“I get more concerned about the cost of our federal debt, which is ballooning,” he says. “That to me is of more concern than the implications it has for the cost of capital for the companies that we lend to.”
The addressable market for AI, and the ability to finance data centres and the ecosystem around them, is monumental. Ketchum says he has tended to be somewhat cautious regarding Sound Point’s consideration of data centre or GPU financing, and the firm has elected to focus instead on the businesses that derive benefits from the data centres. There will be winners and losers, and Ketchum explains how he is already distinguishing between them.
“There’s counterparty risk; there’s geographic risk; there’s all sorts of fundamental credit things to think about” in relation to data centres, he notes. “And then, perhaps most importantly, there’s documentation.”

This week, a special edition of Credit Exchange. Over the last couple of weeks, host Lisa Lee has been attending the ABS East conference in Miami, and the CAIS Alternative Investment Summit in Beverly Hills, to understand the key dynamics currently unfolding in credit.
On this week’s podcast, we hear from Robert Zable, global head of CLOs at Guggenheim Partners; Jared Parker, co-head of North America at Oaktree Capital Management; and Tom Majewski, co-founder and CEO of Eagle Point Credit Management. They share their insights on inflation, artificial intelligence, and the current shape of credit markets.

“We’re in the trenches and the front lines of doing this,” says Sandor Hau, head of credit and managing partner at private equity firm Charlesbank Capital Partners, on the latest episode of Credit Exchange with Lisa Lee. Hau says he has been buying illiquid private credit loans for decades.
The buying and selling of private loans is still a niche and idiosyncratic play. But trading is accelerating as the private credit market expands in size and its liquidity needs grow. Private equity firms have the option to put certain firms into what are known as “disqualified lists”, and those lists are increasing. But that hasn’t materially impacted how Charlesbank buy and sells loans versus a year ago, or even half a decade ago.
Hau also speaks about his expectations for more private credit bankruptcies, artificial intelligence in private markets, and current LP mood.
Charlesbank was spun out of the Harvard University endowment nearly 30 years ago.