Psychologists Off the Clock

If you’re the kind of person who is pathologically nice, physically incapable of saying "no," and constantly burning out to keep everyone else happy, you might actually have a Type C personality.
Debbie Sorensen chats with psychologist Kore Glied and former Wall Street exec Anna White to break down how this conflict-avoidant, super-pleaser trait differs from Types A and B and why hiding your true feelings takes such a heavy toll on your health, career, and relationships.
You'll hear Anna open up about her own experience grinding straight through maternity leave until chronic fatigue hit, how these habits usually stem from early criticism or neglect, and how you can change these Type C patterns with a simple SASS framework. Tune in to find out how to Spot your hidden rules, Accept your own worth, Sit with tough emotions, and Say no thoughtfully.
Listen and Learn:
What defines the Type C personality
Anna shares her personal story of growing up as a Type C personality and a cautionary story of how her "Type C" tendency to put work obligations above her own needs led her to work through a seven-week maternity leave
How a personal journey through chronic illness and a chance discovery of the "Type C" personality traits
How Type C personality traits develop, how cultural expectations and social rewards reinforce them, and how understanding these origins can help reduce feelings of blame and shame
How Type C personalities are driven by guilt and recognizing the subtle patterns that prevent you from asserting your own worth
How Type C personality traits can lead to unbalanced relationships, career burnout, and vulnerability to toxic dynamics in both the workplace and at home
How Type C personality traits can impact parenting and health
The practical "SASS" framework to build resilience and break people-pleasing habits

Resources:
https://thetypecpersonality.com/
Debbie’s burnout appearance on the Type C personality podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6d7AIsfXM18njrNzZvd6Kd
To preorder Kore and Anna’s book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/006349244X
Kore’s Website https://www.drkorenissenson.com
Anna’s care package company, Rest & Heal: https://restandheal.com

About Kore Glied and Anna White
Dr. Kore Glied is a clinical psychologist based in New York City who specializes in helping adults manage anxiety disorders, including obsessive compulsive disorder, and insomnia. Before starting her private practice, she spent many years as an Assistant Professor of Psychology at several major New York City hospitals, including Montefiore Hospital, NYU Medical Center, and most recently, Mount Sinai Hospital. Dr. Glied uses evidence-based approaches such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) to help clients get unstuck and build healthier, more fulfilling lives. Dr. Glied provides training and supervision in (ACT). She has published research on anxiety, trauma, and HIV-related health and has been invited to present her work at national conferences. In addition to her clinical work, Dr. Glied leads corporate wellness workshops focused on managing stress, anxiety, and building healthier relationships. She lives in Manhattan with her husband, two sons, and their dog. As a working mom, she understands the challenges of balancing career, family, and everything in between—and she’s the first to admit she doesn’t have it all figured out.
Anna White is a former investments executive who spent 20 years working for a range of Wall Street firms in capital markets, private equity, equity research, and asset management. She experienced severe burnout at one point in her career which led to a chronic illness that was difficult to diagnose, treat, and recover from. Type C traits were a significant contributor to her declining health. After leaving corporate life, she founded a specialty care package company, Rest & Heal, which focuses on supporting women who have suffered hardship and/or illness through carefully curated gift packages meant to soothe, educate and re-energize the spirit. She holds a B.S. and M.B.A. in Business Administration from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

Related Episodes:
447. Fawning with Ingrid Clayton
362. Adult Bullies and High Conflict People with Bill Eddy – Psychologists Off the Clock
276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson
186. Set Boundaries Find Peace with Nedra Tawwab
199. Belonging From the Inside Out with Meg McKelvie
163. The Likeability Trap with Alicia Menendez
399. Likable Badass with Alison Fragale
250. Anxiety and Perfectionism with Clarissa Ong
226. ACT for Perfectionism with Jennifer Kemp

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Every couple has to learn how to accept their differences. But when you’re in a neurodiverse relationship, those differences aren't just quirks; they’re completely different ways of experiencing the world.
In this episode, we're getting real about love, autism, and how to actually understand each other in a conversation with psychologist and author Dr. Cindy Ariel, who drops by to chat about her book, Autism and the Two of Us. Cindy brings so many incredible insights to the table, including what autism actually is and why neurodiversity is just a normal variation of the human brain.
She also gets into the nuances of identity-first vs. person-first language and why those choices matter, and busts some major myths and talks about redefining what "typical" love even looks like.
Tune in for a genuinely eye-opening conversation on love, connection, and neurodiversity!

Listen and Learn:
Framing neurodiversity as the natural spectrum of variation in human minds
Why the assumption that autistic individuals cannot sustain meaningful partnerships is a misconception
The need to move away from standard expectations of romantic behavior, and why neurotypical and autistic partners often express love in vastly different ways
Actionable insights on how partners can translate each other's emotional signals to build deeper connections
How neurodiverse and neurotypical partners often interpret the same situation in vastly different, yet equally valid ways
Moving past rigid expectations and deadlocks by co-creating custom, "third-way" solutions that meet both partners' unique emotional and practical needs
Overcoming the "closeness communication bias" by learning to treat your partner how they want to be treated rather than relying on default assumptions
Navigateing deep neurological differences by letting go of diagnostic labels and distinguishing between normal incompatibility versus toxic behavior

Resources:
Autism and the Two of Us: Love, Communication, and Neurodiversity https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/autism-and-the-two-of-us-how-understanding-each-other-can-help-you-build-a-stronger-lasting-love-cindy-n-ariel/b92004b21dec8780?ean=9781462560189&bkshp-astro=t
alternativechoices.com
Pre-order Yael’s book and get pre-order bonuses! (order 12 or more copies and I’ll join you on a Zoom for a 30-minute mini-workshop or Q&A!)

About Cindy Ariel:
Cindy Ariel is a Philadelphia-based psychologist who has spent more than three decades at the intersection of psychology, neurodiversity, and intimate relationships. In 1992, she cofounded Alternative Choices, an independent group psychology practice known for its work with LGBTQ families and with individuals on the autism spectrum. She is the author of several books on neurodivergent relationships, including her newest, Autism and the Two of Us: How Understanding Each Other Can Help You Build a Stronger, Lasting Love (Guilford Press). Dr. Ariel is widely recognized for her work with neurodiverse couples, combining clinical insight with advocacy for understanding, acceptance, and the celebration of all kinds of minds. She was doing this work long before most people had a framework for thinking about autism in adulthood. Learn more at alternativechoices.com.

Related Episodes:
186. Set Boundaries Find Peace with Nedra Tawwab
263. Relationships with Emotionally Immature People with Lindsay Gibson
449. How to Feel Loved with Sonja Lyubomirsky and Harry Reis
467. Bonded by Evolution with Paul Eastwick

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What do you do as a mental health provider when a client walks into your office and flat-out refuses to be there, is silent, or is disengaged?
In this episode, Michael chats with psychotherapist and Motivational Interviewing trainer Kristen Dempsey about her book, Advancing Motivational Interviewing, and how to actually navigate those cases.
They get into why Motivational Interviewing works so well when a client is stuck on the fence and how these skills end up being surprisingly useful outside the clinic, too. Kristen also breaks down how MI can help to build real connection early on, why our instinct to "fix" people almost always backfires, and how to work with mandated clients without getting into a power struggle.
They also touch on practical group ideas, the whole concept of "lending hope," and how using MI might just save you from burning out. Tune in for the full chat!
Listen and Learn:
How Motivational Interviewing (MI) helps clients uncover their own internal motivation for change
Blending MI with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) to meet clients where they are and navigate ambivalence
Practical strategies for handling mandated and disengaged clients with the use of "comfort agreements," and offering flexible participation options
How practitioners can act as a "professional hoper" in Motivational Interviewing (MI) and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT)
How MI can prevent burnout and cultivate deeper curiosity, compassion, and presence in relationships

Resources:
Advancing Motivational Interviewing: https://www.kristindempseycounseling.com/kristins-book-advancing-motivational
Kristin’s Website: https://www.kristindempseycounseling.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-dempsey-ed-d-lpcc-lmft-322812a/
https://www.facebook.com/p/Kristin-L-Dempsey-LPCC-LMFT-100057356474362/
https://www.instagram.com/kristin_d_author_trainer?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==&utm_source=qr
MI Macrostack Collaboration: https://substack.com/@ali1850709/note/p-194642379?r=1tfnrv&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
Michael’s Confidence Course https://herold.coach/course

About Kristin Dempsey
Kristin Dempsey is a psychotherapist, trainer, and counselor educator in the San Francisco Bay Area. She has over 30 years’ experience working with individuals, youth, and families with challenging behavioral issues that impact their lives, such as substance use disorders, co-occurring mental health and substance use disorders, trauma symptoms, and unresolved grief. Kristin believes that each individual has unlimited ability to change and grow, and she enjoys exploring the complexities of complex challenges and how to approach them with compassion and curiosity. Kristin has taught many classes in the counselor education curriculum, and she is currently focused on practitioner skill development, substance use disorder treatment, and effective practices in community mental health. Kristin is a member of the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT), and she currently teaches motivational interviewing to behavioral health and other allied human services professionals. She is an adjunct professor at the Wright Institute’s Counseling Psychology Program and lecturing faculty at San Francisco State University. Kristin is the author of The Harm Reduction Workbook for Addiction (New Harbinger, 2024), co-author of Advancing Motivational Interviewing: An Experiential Skills Guide for Mental Health Professionals (PESI, April 2026), and a writer for The Mental Health and Substance Use Recovery Workbook (New Harbinger, May 2027).

Related Episodes:
135. Power of Empathy and Motivational Interviewing with Stephen Rollnick
66. Helping People Change Using Motivational Interviewing With Nadine Mastroleo
402. Harm Reduction for Addiction with Kristin Dempsey

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Don't stress over parenting advice, as much of it is based on clickbait, panic, and outdated science.
In this episode, we hear from science journalists and experts Melinda Wenner Moyer, Tracy Dennis-Tiwary, Jacqueline Nesi in a conversation with Emily on how to spot actual, trustworthy parenting guidance amid all the online noise.
Dismantling the myth of the "one-size-fits-all" approach, they explain why classic research was always meant to be flexible and why anyone claiming there is only one right way is usually just selling something.
You'll also learn about the deep flaws in historical parenting studies and what modern research is getting right, as well as the viral panic surrounding screen time, extreme media narratives, and the real risks AI companions pose to kids' emotional growth.
If you’d appreciate a reassuring, reality-based sanity check on modern parenting so you can tune out the fear and focus on what actually works for your family, tune in for this episode on Parenting Science in the Media.

Listen and Learn:
How parenting advice moved past simple "good vs. bad" rules to look at how things like culture, environment, and everyday context actually shape what works
Calling out rigid parenting advice, spotting the red flags, and breaking down why real child science actually depends on the context
Biases in parenting science and leaning into "goodness of fit" to figure out what actually works for your specific kid
How nuanced, multi-method science often gets distorted by media algorithms and fear-based messaging and how to spot misleading science headlines
How kids are actively using AI, why vulnerable or unfulfilled kids are most at risk of over-dependence, and how parents can guide their children through open communication rather than strict bans
Positive trends in youth resilience and self-control, how modern parenting shifts drive these improvements, and why adults in every generation fall victim to the cognitive bias that "kids these days" are doomed

Resources:
 jacquelinenesi.com
melindawennermoyer.com
https://www.tracydennistiwary.com/
 technosapiens.substack.com
https://tracydennistiwary.substack.com
 melindawmoyer.substack.com.
The Kids Are All Right, Scientific American article by Melinda
Tracy’s Book Review in the New York Times
The Most Elusive Part of Modern Parenting, Emily’s Substack (if you hit a paywall, just email Emily for a free link - emily@emilyedlynnphd.com)

About Melinda Wenner Moyer, Jacqueline Nesi and Tracy Dennis-Tiwary
Melinda Wenner Moyer - Melinda Wenner Moyer is an award-winning science journalist and author. She’s a contributing editor at Scientific American magazine and a regular contributor at The New York Times. She’s the author of How to Raise Kids Who Aren’t Assholes and Hello, Cruel World! She also writes the popular parenting Substack Now What.
Jacqueline Nesi - Jacqueline Nesi, PhD, is a Clinical Psychologist, Associate Professor at Brown University, and author of the popular weekly newsletter Techno Sapiens. Her research focuses on the role of technology in kids’ mental health (especially teens), and on how parents can help.
Tracy Dennis-Tiwary, PhD, is a clinical psychologist, professor, researcher, mental health tech entrepreneur, and AI safety advisor. Her research focuses on the intersection between digital technology and mental health. She writes about growing up and growing old in the digital age in news outlets like the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Washington Post, as well as on her Substack The Future of Sanity. She is author of the book Future Tense: Why Anxiety is Good for You (Even Though it Feels Bad).

Related Episodes:
464. Dad Brain with Darby Saxbe
428. How to Fall in Love with Questions with Elizabeth Weingarten
409. Raising Terrific Kids in Terrifying Times with Melinda Wenner Moyer
382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health
319. Autonomy-Supportive Parenting with Emily Edlynn
307. Navigating Social Media As a Parent with Cara Goodwin
266. Future Tense with Tracy Dennis-Tiwary
253. Free-Range Kids with Lenore Skenazy
214. How to Raise Kids Who Aren’t Jerks with Melinda Wenner Moyer

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We spend an exhausting amount of energy trying to outrun our own difficult thoughts and feelings.
For this episode, Jill Stoddard brings back ACT therapist, trainer, and author of The Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Skills Workbook, Matt Boone for a refreshingly grounded look at Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. Matt shares how his own path through chronic pain led him to ACT, breaking down why trying to "fix" uncomfortable inner experiences usually backfires.
You'll hear about why we procrastinate, how to unhook from spiral-inducing thoughts, and how to get unstuck when uncertainty feels overwhelming. Plus, Matt shares how ACT helps therapists dodge burnout.
Join us for this practical guide to making peace with the noise in your head so you can finally move toward what actually matters.

Listen to POTC ad-free for just $5 a month by becoming a Mega Supporter on Patreon! Or, support the podcast with a one-time donation at Buy Me A Coffee!

Listen and Learn:
How ACT moves away from trying to "fix" or eliminate difficult emotions, teaching people to live alongside their pain so they can focus energy on what truly matters
Matt’s personal journey from chronic pain patient to ACT therapist, exploring how real-life experiences shaped their approach to therapy and led to designing experiential ACT training courses
How Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) shifts the focus from managing symptom scores to creating meaningful, real-world behavior changes through experiential, values-based action
Why "we hurt where we care," how procrastination and avoidance function to give us short-term relief, and how reconnecting with your deeper "why" can help you step through discomfort toward a full life
How to define values as actionable, ongoing ways of being rather than fixed feelings, and discover practical tools
Aligning small everyday actions with your values to allow you to act with intention, kindness, and self-acceptance, even in hard moments
Major clinical hurdles and creative, practical exercises to act in alignment with your values anyway
How mindfulness allows you to step back and observe unhelpful thoughts without getting tangled up in them or taking them as "capital-T truth
Why arguing with your mind often backfires, how to shift focus from thought content to thought impact, and why taking a "leap of faith" empowers you to take meaningful action aligned with your values

Resources:
The Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Skills Workbook https://www.matthewsboone.com/acceptance-commitment-therapy-skills-workbook
Matt's Website https://www.matthewsboone.com/
Connect with Matt on Social Mediahttps://www.facebook.com/matthew.boone.794/about
https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewsboone
https://www.praxiscet.com

About Matt Boone:
Matt Boone is a social worker, psychotherapist, and author who specializes in translating mental health concepts for the general public. His books include The Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Skills Workbook, co-authored with Jennifer Gregg, and Stop Avoiding Stuff: 25 Microskills to Face Your Fears and Do It Anyway, co-authored with Jennifer Gregg and Lisa Coyne.

He is the Associate Director at the Student Wellness Program (SWP) of the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences (UAMS) and Instructor in the Department of Psychiatry. As the Clinical Director of Mental Health Coaching at Lyra Health, he oversaw the clinical development of Lyra’s mental health coaching program and offered workshops and webinars on mental health topics to workers in the tech industry. Lyra partners with eBay, Lyft, Uber, Servicenow and others to provide evidence-based care to their employees.

At Cornell University, he oversaw the development of Let's Talk, an outreach program that has since been replicated at nearly 100 other colleges and universities.

He lives and works in Little Rock, Arkansas with his wife, guitars, and cats, Giorgia (a sassy Tortie) and Finley (a gentle giant orange kitty with a superhuman -- or superkitten-- capacity for empathy).

Related Episodes:
77. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy with Jill Stoddard
106. Therapy from “The Heart of ACT” with Robyn Walser
116. Building a Meaningful, Values-based Life with Jenna LeJeune
121. Be Mighty: An Episode for Stressed Out, Worried Women with Jill Stoddard
128. ACT for Food Restriction and Anorexia with Rhonda Merwin
190. ACT for Suicide Prevention with Sean Barnes
195. ACT Daily with Diana Hill and Debbie Sorensen
226. ACT for Perfectionism with Jennifer Kemp
279. ACT for Healing Black Racial Trauma with Jennifer Shepard Payne
301. Seven Daily ACT Practices for Living Fully with Diana Hill and Debbie Sorensen
313. ACT-Informed Exposure for Anxiety with Brian Pilecki and Brian Thompson
338. ACT for Burnout with Debbie!

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