Psychologists Off the Clock

What if some of the things you believe most strongly aren’t actually facts—but tools you’re using to navigate a complicated world?
In this bittersweet final interview for Psychologists Off the Clock, Jill Stoddard welcomes back Nir Eyal, author of Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Extraordinary Results. Nir was Jill’s very first guest when she joined the podcast, making this conversation a fitting bookend to her time on POTC. Together, they explore how our beliefs shape motivation, perception, pain, relationships, and our ability to create lasting change.
Nir explains why beliefs are different from facts or faith, and why treating beliefs as tools rather than truths can give us more flexibility. He shares his personal story of struggling with his weight, how changing his beliefs helped him persist, and what his experience with Pain Reprocessing Therapy taught him about chronic pain.
You’ll hear why “seeing is believing” is only half the story, how our expectations can change our experience of pain and pleasure, why venting may reinforce the very beliefs that keep us stuck, and how expanding your portfolio of perspectives can create more freedom in relationships and everyday life.
Join Jill and Nir for a fascinating conversation about the power of belief—and a reminder that feeling bad isn’t necessarily bad. Sometimes, pain comes with purpose.
Listen and Learn:
Why beliefs are neither facts nor faith, but flexible “working models” that help us navigate reality when the truth isn’t fully knowable
How beliefs influence motivation, behavior, and persistence—and why believing you can succeed may be just as important as knowing what to do
Nir’s personal weight-loss journey and how searching for the “one true” diet ultimately got in the way of persistence
Why beliefs can be powerful tools even when we can’t prove that they are objectively true, and how choosing beliefs that serve us can change the way we respond to everyday challenges
How attention shapes perception, why our brains rely on predictions and prior beliefs, and what the classic checkerboard illusion teaches us about seeing reality
The relationship between beliefs, expectations, pain, and suffering—including what Nir learned from Pain Reprocessing Therapy and the surprising power of the brain to change the experience of chronic pain
Why feeling bad isn’t necessarily bad, and how redefining discomfort as something that can accompany purpose may help us stop avoiding the experiences that matter
How placebo and nocebo effects demonstrate the powerful role of expectations, and why beliefs can influence our experience through changes in behavior and biology
Why venting can reinforce negative beliefs about other people, and how “getting it off your chest” may provide short-term relief while making us angrier in the long run
How Inquiry-Based Stress Reduction can help us loosen rigid beliefs by developing a broader “portfolio” of possible perspectives rather than forcing ourselves to replace one belief with another
Nir’s personal transformation in his relationship with his mother, and how questioning assumptions about other people can create more flexibility without requiring them to change
How expanding our beliefs can create “wiggle room” to respond more flexibly, reconnect with our values, and take responsibility for our own contribution to difficult situations
Resources:
Nir’s book Beyond Belief: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593852033
Free belief change guide is here: www.nirandfar.com/beyond-belief-live
Bonus content and the 30-Day Belief Transformation Journal is here: nirandfar.com/beyond-belief
Website: http://nirandfar.com
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nireyal/
Instagram - http://instagram.com/nireyal
Previous books:
Hooked: geni.us/hooked
Indistractable: geni.us/Indistractable

About Nir Eyal:
Nir Eyal writes, consults, and teaches about the intersection of psychology, technology, and human potential. He previously taught at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and the Hasso Plattner Institute of Design at Stanford.
He is the author of the international bestsellers Hooked and Indistractable, which have sold more than a million copies in more than 30 languages. His latest book, Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Extraordinary Results, explores the science of beliefs and how they influence our perceptions, behaviors, and ability to create lasting change. The book recently reached the New York Times bestseller list.
Nir is also an active angel investor whose portfolio includes multi-billion-dollar companies such as Canva and Kahoot!. He blogs at NirAndFar.com and has published writing in The New York Times and Harvard Business Review. He is also a regular contributor to Psychology Today.
Related Episodes:
127. Indistractable with Nir Eyal
310. The Expectation Effect with David Robson
312. Throwback Episode! The Invisible Gorilla with Christopher Chabris
422. Mindwise with Nicholas Epley
443. Shift with Ethan Kross
458. The Pain/Brain Connection with Alan Gordon

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What makes an explanation feel satisfying, and does that feeling have anything to do with whether it's actually true?
Cognitive scientist Tania Lombrozo, author of Why We Ask Why: The Science of Explanation and the Human Drive to Understand, joins Michael to talk about the human drive to explain: where it comes from and what it buys us. She also makes the case that explanations aren't objects sitting out in the world waiting to be found, but mental acts we construct.
Tania walks through why philosophers and psychologists have circled the same phenomenon from different angles, and why a strong drive to explain isn't an obvious thing to build into an intelligent system in the first place. Curiosity, she explains, works as a filter on the endless supply of questions we could be asking. She also shares what her own lab has found about what actually predicts it, and why a satisfying explanation tends to open up more questions rather than shut inquiry down.
Along the way: Alison Gopnik's provocatively titled paper on the aha moment, and the explore/exploit trade-off behind the randomized summer reading program Tania uses to keep herself exploring. They also get into the self-explanation effect, and why explaining to another person usually beats explaining to yourself. The conversation closes on what to do when a three-year-old asks why, including how to bring a chatbot into that moment without skipping the part where good inquiry gets modeled.

Listen and Learn:
Why a strong drive to explain isn't an obvious thing to build into an intelligent system, and what seeking explanations actually does for creatures like us
Why explanations are mental acts rather than facts sitting out in the world, and how a punchline makes that idea concrete
How curiosity filters the endless supply of questions we could ask, and why we gravitate toward things just one step beyond what we already understand
What happens to your curiosity right after a satisfying explanation, and why good answers tend to open up more questions instead of closing them off
The explore/exploit trade-off, and practical ways to build a little more randomness into what you read and what you try
Why explaining something to another person usually beats explaining it to yourself, and the three things that make the difference
How to respond when a child asks why, and how to use AI tools with kids without cutting out the modeling of good inquiry

Resources:
Tania’s book: Why We Ask Why https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780063395008
Twitter / X: https://x.com/tanialombrozo?lang=en
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/tanialombrozo.bsky.social
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tania-lombrozo
Tania's Website: www.tanialombrozo.com http://www.tanialombrozo.com/
Michael’s Confidence Course http://herold.coach/course

About Tania Lombrozo
Tania Lombrozo is Arthur W. Marks '19 Professor of Psychology at Princeton University. She holds degrees in cognitive science and philosophy from Stanford University and in psychology from Harvard University. Her award-winning research has explored the human drive for explanation in both children and adults. She lives in Princeton, New Jersey, with her husband and two daughters. Her book, Why We Ask Why: The Science of Explanation and the Human Drive to Understand, will be released in October 2026.

Related Episodes:
428. How to Fall in Love with Questions with Elizabeth Weingarten
385. Oliver Burkeman on Embracing Your Limitations
457. Tiny Experiments with Anne-Laure Le Cunff
429. May Contain Lies with Alex Edmans

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Navigating a loved one's mental health struggles can feel like walking a tightrope between wanting to save them and trying to keep your own head above water.
In this episode, Dr. David Dozois from the University of Western Ontario highlights his book, What to Do When Your Partner Is Depressed, talking through the toll depression can take on relationships and why the supporting partner's experience so often goes unnoticed.
He shares with us why our instinct to "fix" a partner's pain can often backfire, and offers up actionable strategies for giving real support, encouraging treatment, and how to shift from frustration to true connection, without taking on the role of an unpaid therapist.
Plus, David touches on essential self-care, navigating tricky boundary dynamics, and safely approaching heavy, sensitive topics couples tend to avoid.

Listen and Learn:
How clinical depression differs from ordinary sadness, how it impacts both partners in a relationship, and actionable, evidence-based strategies to support a depressed partner without burning out or sacrificing their own well-being
The complexities of supporting a depressed partner and reveal why the human impulse to "fix" things often backfires, sharing research-backed strategies on how to move from wrestling with your partner to truly connecting with them first
The art of true active listening, explaining why genuine empathy means tuning into your partner’s heart rather than just rehearsing your next response
Framing depression as a shared "we" problem rather than an individual label to encourage a struggling partner to seek help without putting them on the defensive
How non-depressed partners can support their loved one without burning out or slipping into the role of an unpaid therapist
How excessive reassurance seeking can strain a relationship, and why setting compassionate boundaries and practicing response prevention are essential for long-term trust
Navigating the delicate balance between self-care and supporting a loved one through depression

Resources:
David’s Website: https://dozoislab.com
David’s book: What to Do When Your Partner Is Depressed: Supporting Your Loved One While Caring for Yourselfhttps://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/what-to-do-when-your-partner-is-depressed
Pre-order Yael’s new book, Why Don’t You Understand Me?: The Surprising Science Behind Connecting in a World of Missed Signals. Then fill out THIS form to get pre-order bonuses!
Link to Yael’s newsletter and (for paid subscribers), a chance to win a copy of David’s book!

About David Dozois
David Dozois is a professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Western Ontario, where he directs the clinical psychology graduate program and studies cognitive vulnerability to depression, the "why" behind who gets stuck in depressive thinking and why it's so hard to climb out. He's published more than 200 scientific articles and books and has served as president of the Canadian Psychological Association twice.
His new book, What to Do When Your Partner Is Depressed: Supporting Your Loved One While Caring for Yourself, tackles something couples therapists see constantly and talk about far too little: depression is never really a solo experience. It moves into the relationship and unpacks its bags. The partner who isn't depressed often becomes the default project manager of the household, the mood, and the marriage, all while getting none of the concern, support, or permission to fall apart themselves. David's work is a rare combination of rigorous science and genuinely useful, human advice for the partner nobody's checking in on.

Related Episodes:
135. Power of Empathy and Motivational Interviewing with Stephen Rollnick
255. Influence is Your Superpower with Zoe Chance
397. The Mindful Path to Intimacy with James Cordova
408. Connecting Like a Hostage Negotiator with Gary Noesner
413. Validate with Caroline Fleck
449. How to Feel Loved with Sonja Lyubomirsky and Harry Reis
472. One Relationship, Two Brains with Cindy Ariel

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Parenting a kid with ADHD takes way more than standard advice; it requires understanding a complex brain difference that impacts focus, sleep, big emotions, and daily energy.
In this episode, child psychologist Dr. Emily King and TILT Parenting founder Debbie Reber join Emily to give their perspective on what neurodivergent parenting looks like by challenging the "disorder" label, unpacking why behaviors shift between home and school, and diving into hidden struggles like RSD, time blindness, and burnout.
From navigating evaluations to handling the gap between your child's age and their developmental stage, this conversation offers the honest, evidence-based grounding every parent needs.
Tune in now, and reach out to Emily Edlynn to learn more about her 1-on-1 parent coaching!

Listen and Learn:
Should ADHD be framed as a medical disorder or a brain regulation difference?
How pathologizing language impacts stigma, diagnosis, and access to support in both clinical and educational settings
Why the name "ADHD" is misleading and how the disorder goes far beyond inattention and hyperactivity to affect emotional regulation, sleep, appetite, and energy management
How to navigate the ADHD diagnosis process from choosing between a pediatrician and a full neuropsychological evaluation to gathering cross-environment data and shifting parent strategies for lasting behavioral change
Overlooked ADHD traits that rarely get covered in formal evaluations and practical strategies to support your child without damaging their self-esteem
How ADHD-related time blindness, task avoidance, and a lack of future-oriented thinking drive daily struggles like running late and better understanding your child's neurodivergent experience
How emotional sensitivity, sensory processing, and energy regulation manifest in children with ADHD and autism and why a child's behavior can look so drastically different between home and school
Why raising a neurodivergent child feels like "advanced parenting," and the deep isolation, constant judgment, and overwhelming family burnout that comes with it

Resources:
https://www.dremilyking.com/
The Neurodivergent Learner https://www.learnwithdremily.com/book
https://www.learnwithdremily.com/book
https://www.instagram.com/emilywkingphd/
https://www.facebook.com/emilywkingphd
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilywkingphd/
https://www.debbiereber.com/
Differently Wired: A Parent’s Guide to Raising an Atypical Child with Confidence and Hope https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781523506316
https://www.facebook.com/DeborahReberAuthor/
https://twitter.com/debbiereber
Tilt Parenting Podcast 359 A Conversation with Dr. Emily Edlynn on Raising Autonomous Children
Emily Edlynn’s website – contact her directly if you are interested in a parent group!
Emily Edlynn’s Substack pieces about ADHD:
Raising ADHD: Beyond the Diagnosis
Raising ADHD: Why Common Parenting Strategies Don’t Work
What the New York Times Got Wrong About ADHD
Understanding This One Emotion Will Transform Your Parenting

About Emily King and Debbie Reber
Emily King is a child psychologist who has worked with neurodivergent learners for over 20 years. She received a Ph.D. in School Psychology from the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill and began her career in Houston, Texas specializing in school-based mental health in K-12 public schools. She has since worked in private practice in North Carolina supporting the mental health, executive functioning, and social needs of neurodivergent youth. Dr. Emily hosts the Learn with Dr. Emily Substack, where she provides parent workshops, is the creator of The Neurodiverse Classroom®, a professional development curriculum for educators, and her first book, THE NEURODIVERGENT LEARNER, came out on August 25th.

Debbie Reber is a parenting activist, bestselling author, speaker, and the founder of Tilt Parenting, a top resource for parents raising neurodivergent children. Since launching Tilt in 2016, Debbie has championed a strengths-based approach that reframes how society supports differently wired kids. Her groundbreaking book, Differently Wired, is widely recommended by professionals in education and mental health, and her Full-Tilt Parenting Podcast has 10+ million downloads, featuring leading voices in the intersection of parenting and neurodivergence. A parent coach and Positive Discipline trainer, Debbie has been featured in The Washington Post, The New York Times, and on NewsNation, is a three-time TEDx speaker, and is a founding expert and advisor for HumanUp. She lives in the Netherlands with her husband and two cats, while her neurodivergent young adult attends university in Scotland.

Related Episodes:
395. Neurodivergence with Jennifer Kemp
367. ADHD in Adulthood with Michaela Thomas
344. Differently Wired Kids with Deborah Reber
319. Autonomy-Supportive Parenting with the AMAZING Emily Edlynn
202. The Addiction Inoculation with Jess Lahey
187. Raising a Child with ADHD with Russell Barkley

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If you’re the kind of person who is pathologically nice, physically incapable of saying "no," and constantly burning out to keep everyone else happy, you might actually have a Type C personality.
Debbie Sorensen chats with psychologist Kore Glied and former Wall Street exec Anna White to break down how this conflict-avoidant, super-pleaser trait differs from Types A and B and why hiding your true feelings takes such a heavy toll on your health, career, and relationships.
You'll hear Anna open up about her own experience grinding straight through maternity leave until chronic fatigue hit, how these habits usually stem from early criticism or neglect, and how you can change these Type C patterns with a simple SASS framework. Tune in to find out how to Spot your hidden rules, Accept your own worth, Sit with tough emotions, and Say no thoughtfully.
Listen and Learn:
What defines the Type C personality
Anna shares her personal story of growing up as a Type C personality and a cautionary story of how her "Type C" tendency to put work obligations above her own needs led her to work through a seven-week maternity leave
How a personal journey through chronic illness and a chance discovery of the "Type C" personality traits
How Type C personality traits develop, how cultural expectations and social rewards reinforce them, and how understanding these origins can help reduce feelings of blame and shame
How Type C personalities are driven by guilt and recognizing the subtle patterns that prevent you from asserting your own worth
How Type C personality traits can lead to unbalanced relationships, career burnout, and vulnerability to toxic dynamics in both the workplace and at home
How Type C personality traits can impact parenting and health
The practical "SASS" framework to build resilience and break people-pleasing habits

Resources:
https://thetypecpersonality.com/
Debbie’s burnout appearance on the Type C personality podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6d7AIsfXM18njrNzZvd6Kd
To preorder Kore and Anna’s book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/006349244X
Kore’s Website https://www.drkorenissenson.com
Anna’s care package company, Rest & Heal: https://restandheal.com

About Kore Glied and Anna White
Dr. Kore Glied is a clinical psychologist based in New York City who specializes in helping adults manage anxiety disorders, including obsessive compulsive disorder, and insomnia. Before starting her private practice, she spent many years as an Assistant Professor of Psychology at several major New York City hospitals, including Montefiore Hospital, NYU Medical Center, and most recently, Mount Sinai Hospital. Dr. Glied uses evidence-based approaches such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) to help clients get unstuck and build healthier, more fulfilling lives. Dr. Glied provides training and supervision in (ACT). She has published research on anxiety, trauma, and HIV-related health and has been invited to present her work at national conferences. In addition to her clinical work, Dr. Glied leads corporate wellness workshops focused on managing stress, anxiety, and building healthier relationships. She lives in Manhattan with her husband, two sons, and their dog. As a working mom, she understands the challenges of balancing career, family, and everything in between—and she’s the first to admit she doesn’t have it all figured out.
Anna White is a former investments executive who spent 20 years working for a range of Wall Street firms in capital markets, private equity, equity research, and asset management. She experienced severe burnout at one point in her career which led to a chronic illness that was difficult to diagnose, treat, and recover from. Type C traits were a significant contributor to her declining health. After leaving corporate life, she founded a specialty care package company, Rest & Heal, which focuses on supporting women who have suffered hardship and/or illness through carefully curated gift packages meant to soothe, educate and re-energize the spirit. She holds a B.S. and M.B.A. in Business Administration from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

Related Episodes:
447. Fawning with Ingrid Clayton
362. Adult Bullies and High Conflict People with Bill Eddy – Psychologists Off the Clock
276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson
186. Set Boundaries Find Peace with Nedra Tawwab
199. Belonging From the Inside Out with Meg McKelvie
163. The Likeability Trap with Alicia Menendez
399. Likable Badass with Alison Fragale
250. Anxiety and Perfectionism with Clarissa Ong
226. ACT for Perfectionism with Jennifer Kemp

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