In this episode, we sit down with Karen Hao—award-winning journalist, MIT-trained engineer, TIME 100 AI honoree, and author of the best-seller Empire of AI—to unpack the power structures shaping today’s AI, business, and competition. She has a clear and punchy point of view. In our conversation we ask: - Is the Silicon Valley–Wall Street model the only way forward, or others can chart a better path? - Do paradigm shifts like AI inevitably create harmful externalities—hidden data workers, energy and water shortages—just as the Industrial Revolution created pollution and child labor? - Are today’s billion-dollar AI investments solving big problems—or just fuelling hype? - Are we consciously shaping AI—or sleepwalking in “a dream made in the Valley”? Karen argues that today’s AI giants act as modern empires: claiming resources that aren’t theirs, exploiting vulnerable labour, monopolizing knowledge, and sustaining themselves with a narrative of existential competition. She shows how many tools we use were born from subjective and often ad-hoc decisions—like scraping even the murkiest corners of the internet—despite harmful downstream effects. She is critical of current regulatory efforts, weakened by Big Tech lobbying and points to real alternatives. She warns of an inevitable financial bust—investments wildly outpacing business value. But her message is ultimately hopeful: beyond the Big Labs, smaller teams are building AI for healthcare and the environment, showing that another path is possible. Her call to action is clear: we must not sleepwalk into a future shaped by a self-serviing AI elite. We need to collectively imagine alternatives, and build a more balanced future. As Karen claims, something better is achievable: "The shape of a technology is never inevitable: there are many, many human choices." Note: This podcasst was recorded as part of an INSEAD alumni webinar. Live questions were submitted by the audience. Empire of AI book link.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Saif Al Salman: what happens when a nation goes all-in on AI?
Saif Al Salman is Microsoft's National Technology Officer in the United Arab Emirates where "AI is a national bet for the country for the next 50 years." Saif has a front row seat to their sustained push: from appointing the first AI MInister to the recent promise to invest $1.4 trillion in US-aligned AI technology and infrastucture. The country has invested across multiple fronts ranging from talent to infrastructure to new local language models. AI strategy has become national strategy as they deploy their huge legacy capital stock (and solar power) to pivot in to the business of selling compute (or tokens). This national transformation is projected to grow the economy by over 20% in the coming years. And their strength means that they are now positioned to deploy AI as "soft power". Saif outlines how UAE is offering Africa support with local language models, infrastructure and "blueprint for how tech can drive inclusive growth." Saif argues that nations must "dream big" if they want to prosper in the Age of Intelligence. Technology is moving fast and new powers are rising - are you ready for this new world?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Demba Ba: The AI Neurosurgeon
"I want to give people the map ... what you do with it is up to you." Demba Ba has a 5-year ambition to cut open the AI Black Box and explain what makes LLMs work. Demba Ba, the Harvard Professor described as an "AI Neurosurgeon", shows why explainability lies at the heart of humans taking control of AI's alien intelligence. And if we get this right then we will also gain huge insight - "a neurosurgeon's dream" - in to not only how AI but also humans think. The conversartion ranges from the immediate opportunities from healthcare roll-out and AI audit (why did the AI make that decision?) to the potential power this could give the state to manipulate people. And if we can understand and predict AI behaviour, and do the same with people, what does this tell us about free will, or are we all just products of our training data? If we can create individual human knowledge graphs - building the human model - then does this mean we can predict an individual's actions? What are the implications for AI tweaking - does lobotomy (or AI dissection and editing) have a wider impact? We also discussed the huge AI opportunity for Africa - potentially one of the biggest winners in the coming Age of Intelligence. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Francois Candelon - Lessons from the “Permanent Revolution”
What can one learn from a Private Equity AI executive who quotes Leon Trotsky? Francois led the Boston Consulting Group’s Henderson Institute in its recent impactful work on Generative AI and the workforce. Ideas such as the “jagged frontier” and “AI as an exo-skeleton” have helped create mental models for everyone working in the space. He brings a unique perspective on AI adoption and competitiveness of companies and nations, combining decades of experience with BCG’s large clients and his new role working with SMEs in Private Equity. He argues that smaller companies have the advantage of speed and focus. He lays out a framework for how companies can embrace the technology - with a clear focus on how to bring people with them. This means firms must be ambitious with AI: they must “hunt elephants, not rabbits” and stay focused on the business case rather than any technical details that may not matter. His experience working in China for years shows him the difference between countries with a sense of urgency and those who are too focused on defending existing structures. The key is to “protect individuals not job descriptions”, as he urges policy makers to do. He provides insights on what children should study but reassures that not all jobs will disappear: “There will be consultants as long as there are learning curves”. Learning is at the core of intelligence and the only way to live in a world where … revolution is permanent.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Smarter Humans: The Pattie Maes Mission
Pattie Maes brings a unique perspective to the quest to build better machines: she pioneered the concept of the software agent in the 1990s. Ever since - as an entrepreneur and leading MIT academic - she has focused on the mission to help make humans smarter. To augment humanity, not robots. She takes us on her professional journey - from her first company (Agents Inc) to her latest research at MIT. Pattie is focused on how computer systems and digital devices might augment people and assist them with issues such as memory, learning, decision making, health and wellbeing. In 2025 she was recognized with the "Lifetime Achievement Award in Human Computer Interaction" by the Association for Computing Machinery (ACM). She talked us through her concerns about AI - the sheer power of a technoklogy that is increasingly intermediating between us and the world around us. But it is riddled with bias and prone to hijacking for often nefarious ends. And, as her research shows, humans are very open to simply falling in with this powerful persuasive force. Pattie's words will be important for anyone wondering how to engage with this technology - wise warnings combined with a clear sense of all that should be possible if only we aimed for better. This raises the stakes for Europe - she argues that for reasons both selfish (national security) and idealistic (building a better world) Europe must aspire to take control of its "new utility". See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
AI changes everything it touches. For better and for worse. And AI is increasingly touching everything. The Age of Intelligence, recorded from INSEAD, brings together the voices of this new era.
AI is rebalancing the world. Power is shifting — among nations, corporations, and individuals — as trillions in value are created and redistributed. AI is increasingly central to economic and business strategy, geopolitical influence, and the shaping of culture, ideology, and values.
Listen to those leading the change—from academics exploring the boundaries, to entrepreneurs building the future, business leaders reshaping markets, policy-makers tackling the implications, and analysts marvelling at it.
Who will gain most in this unfolding era? What can executives, policymakers, parents, and citizens do to protect and shape their future? How will values and beliefs evolve as education and media are revolutionized? What does this mean for national security, business survival, personal agency – indeed what will it mean to be human?
Guiding you through this conversation are Theos and Tim. Theos Evgeniou is a leading AI academic at INSEAD, entrepreneur, and advisor. Tim Gordon, co-founder at Best Practice AI, is an entrepreneur, adviser and recovering political organiser. They have worked with some of the world’s most sophisticated companies, organisations and governments as they grapple with these questions.
Each episode features a thought-provoking conversation with a remarkable guest – followed by a rapid-fire, high-energy debrief.
We’ll reflect on what it might mean – for you, for your business, and for our world. Grounded in the realities but exploring the opportunities.
Whether you’re building, investing in, or simply trying to make sense of AI and what it may mean for you, this podcast is your backstage pass to the diverse people and ideas driving the most transformative force of our time.
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