The Gaming Playbook w/ Harry Phokou

• #44 – Andrew Pappas: How Empathy-Driven Marketing Builds Successful Indie Games

  Ever wondered why some indie games blow up without “doing any marketing”? And why that idea frustrates real game marketers?In this episode, I sit down with Andrew Pappas, founder of RenGen Marketing and host of Indie Game Movement podcast, to unpack what real marketing looks like for indie studios in 2025. Andrew has worked with countless devs across the world to help them understand how to connect with players, build sustainable studios, and turn creative passion into commercial success.We talk about why marketing should start at the concept stage, how to identify player pain points before you even prototype, and why so many devs are leaving money on the table by ignoring empathy-driven marketing. Andrew also breaks down how to build trust-based content, choose the right marketing channels for your strengths, and craft systems that actually scale without burning out your team.This is a practical, no-fluff deep dive into how indie studios can market smarter, connect deeper with players, and build a real business around creativity, not just luck.Connect with Andrew:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewpappas-rengen/Website: https://www.rengenmarketing.com/Podcast: https://www.rengenmarketing.com/podcast/100-2/Newsletter: https://www.rengenmarketing.com/newsletter/Connect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights: → Subscribe to the Gaming Rally Newsletter www.gamingrally.netChapters:00:00 Intro02:40  Why marketing should start before development07:20 Demand-based vs solution-based thinking12:00 Using player pain points to design better games18:10 The risks of long dev cycles in a fast-changing market23:00 Marketing strategy vs marketing plan explained28:40 Why copying other studios’ marketing doesn’t work34:30 Leading with empathy to connect with players40:10 How to understand your players without being salesy46:50 Choosing the right channels for your indie game51:20 Building a repeatable marketing process57:00 Measuring resonance instead of raw reach1:03:20 Understanding your player’s buying journey1:08:40 Making marketing entertaining and memorable1:11:30 Andrew’s final advice for indie developers#IndieGameMarketing #GameDevPodcast #PlayerFirstDesign #SteamMarketing #IndieDevGrowth

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• #43 – Marcus Holmström: How Roblox Is Rewriting the Rules of Game Development

  Ever wondered how to scale a gaming studio to over 200+ staff without raising a single dollar of VC funding?In this episode, I sit down with Marcus Holmstrom, Co-Founder and CEO of The Gang, who shares how he built one of the world’s leading Roblox studios, and working with brands like FIFA, Netflix, Amazon, and Wimbledon, while pioneering the rise of UGC gaming.We talk about how Roblox developers are actually making huge money from their games, what’s driving the UGC boom, and why more traditional studios are starting to take notice. Marcus also breaks down how to build a remote-first team, hire the right people, and create games that find product-market fit fast.This is a practical, no-fluff deep dive into the business of modern gaming, from bootstrapping to global scale.Connect with Marcus:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcusholmstrom/Website: https://www.thegang.io/Press Kit: https://readymag.website/TheGang/Presskit-2025/Strongman Simulator: https://www.roblox.com/games/6766156863/Strongman-SimulatorConnect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights: → Subscribe to the Gaming Rally Newsletter www.gamingrally.net01:10 Intro03:03 How The Gang was founded05:44 What Roblox really is (and why it matters)07:47 Why Grow a Garden became the biggest game ever09:25 How Roblox games make millions13:03 Building 40+ games in 5 years13:44 Working with brands like Netflix, FIFA & Amazon17:40 From hobby project to 300+ employees20:37 Why full-time staff beat contractors22:50 Running remote-first studios pre-COVID26:34 Using Discord as a digital office29:43 Culture, communication & daily structure32:04 Why the age demographics of Roblox matters35:43 Why major studios are now building on Roblox37:54 How monetization really works on Roblox42:40 Welcome to Bloxburg: a case study46:05 Why simplicity wins on Roblox48:05 The Strongman Simulator story (1.5B plays!)53:20 Parents, kids & spending on digital goods58:06 Health-based gaming & motion integration59:07 Hiring tips for scaling studios01:05:29 Final takeaways & how to contact The Gang#RobloxDevelopment #GamingBusiness #UGCgaming #GameDevPodcast #StartupGrowth

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• #42 – John Wright: From Accountant to CEO, Breaking Into the Gaming Industry & Scaling Mobile Games

  Dreaming of breaking into the games industry or scaling your studio?In this episode, John Wright (CEO of Turborilla) shares his journey from leaving accountancy to leading a studio with 200M+ downloads, plus hard-earned lessons on leadership, mobile publishing, and scaling games in today’s competitive market.We cover everything from transferable skills and breaking into gaming, to user acquisition strategies, playable ads, retention metrics, and building a motivated team.This is a raw, practical guide for anyone serious about games, leadership, and publishing.- Learn how to transition careers into gaming with no direct experience- Discover how CEOs manage change, culture, and accountability- Understand why retention and CPI make or break mobile games- Hear real-world lessons from $2B in user acquisition spend- Insider tips on networking, scaling, and sustaining success in gamingConnect with John:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnwright1987/Website: https://www.turborilla.com/Mad Skills Motocross 3: https://apps.apple.com/ua/app/mad-skills-motocross-3/id1508275130?l=en, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.turborilla.bike.racing.madskillsmotocross3&hl=ukConnect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights: → Subscribe to the Gaming Rally Newsletter www.gamingrally.netChapters:00:00 Intro01:40 Episode roadmap: leadership, publishing, and game economics02:53 John’s background: identity crisis at 25 & leaving accountancy08:50 Advice for newcomers to the games industry17:40 What being CEO at Turborilla looks like23:16 How to manage change as a CEO26:43 Aligning people with business goals & accountability31:14 Structuring company goals and roadmaps35:15 The “happiness index” and motivating teams40:31 The rise of playable ads and lessons learned45:13 CPI, IPM, and industry metrics explained49:53 Zynga, Rollic, acquisitions & scaling user bases52:52 Profitability vs exits in gaming businesses58:46 What separates a “good” game from a scalable hit01:02:10 Retention, MVPs, and testing strategies01:06:01 Ads vs retention: which comes first?01:09:41 Strategies for new studios in a competitive market01:11:43 Understanding VC theses and their impact on funding01:17:23 Giving back to the gaming community01:21:53 The future of AI in game development01:25:31 Closing thoughts and ways to connect

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• #41 – Jon Hanson: Why Indie Game Marketing Fails (and How to Succeed on a Small Budget)

  In this episode of The Gaming Playbook, I sit down with Jon Hanson, founder of Skill Tree Marketing and former EA & Warner Bros. publishing exec, who left the AAA grind to help indie and AA studios thrive. Jon shares the unfiltered truth about indie game marketing: why most devs misunderstand it, how to validate your game without wasting years, and what it really takes to cut through the noise with limited budgets.Expect deep dives into:- The biggest misconceptions about indie game marketing- Why 30–50% of your budget should go to marketing (and how to use it wisely)- How to validate your game early with market research & paid UA- Case study: saving a VR game with better store optimization & ads- Steam wishlists: what they really mean and how to grow them effectively- Using Reddit, Discord & Facebook groups to reach players authentically- Why storytelling and community trust beat polished “corporate” marketing- Building a lean, sustainable business in a tough games marketWhether you’re an indie dev, a marketing lead, or a founder aiming to launch your first game, this episode is a brutally honest masterclass on how to market smarter, avoid costly mistakes, and turn your game into a business that lasts.Connect with Jon:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonhanson1/Website: https://skilltree-marketing.com/Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/user/SkillTreeMarketing/Connect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights: → Subscribe to the Gaming Rally Newsletter www.gamingrally.netChapters:00:00 Intro01:23 Why Jon left AAA publishing to help indies03:09 Viral LinkedIn posts about Expedition 33 & Balatro05:30 Building a small but powerful indie-focused team09:02 Biggest misconceptions about game marketing10:39 Why marketing needs 30–50% of your budget11:34 When and how to start marketing your game13:50 Market research tools: AI, Reddit, Discord, LinkedIn16:12 Validating ideas without wasting years19:04 Case study: VR game turnaround with UA & optimization22:24 Paid UA done right vs. going “all in”24:32 Realistic ad spend returns for indie games26:13 Why indies overlook paid UA vs organic marketing28:16 Using UA to test game concepts before building31:55 Steam wishlists: myths, metrics & algorithms35:15 Discovery channels indies overlook (Reddit, Facebook groups, Discord)36:34 Building authentic community trust & engagement42:22 Discord support, authenticity, and winning trust45:16 Repeat customers & building a sustainable studio51:46 Running a business with 8 Chihuahuas & 3 horses54:40 Lessons learned starting a business: don’t go alone57:41 Final advice for indie devs on marketing59:54 How to connect with Jon and Skill Tree Marketing#IndieGameMarketing #GameDevTips #SteamWishlists #IndieDevJourney #GameMarketingStrategy

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• #40 – Charlie Czerkawski: Inside Game Economy Design, Monetization & Progression

  In this episode of The Gaming Playbook, I sit down with Charlie Czerkawski, veteran game designer behind Shadowgun Legends and Payday 3, and now part of Sharkmob’s design leadership team on Exoborn. Charlie is also the author of Game Economy Design, and he pulls back the curtain on what it really takes to build player-friendly yet profitable game economies.Expect deep dives into:- What game economy design actually is (and how it differs from monetization)- The biggest misconceptions developers have about economy design- Vertical vs. horizontal progression, and why many games get it wrong- Lessons from case studies like Clash Royale, Marvel Snap, and The Finals- How to balance free vs. premium currency without alienating players- Why testing “feels good” is harder than it sounds- Career lessons from building his own studio and working across Europe- Writing the go-to book on game economy designWhether you’re an aspiring game designer, a live-ops manager, or a player curious about how games keep you hooked, this episode is a rare inside look into one of the most complex and misunderstood roles in game development.Connect with Charlie:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-lees-czerkawski-46293524/His book: https://www.routledge.com/Game-Economy-Design-Metagame-Monetization-and-Live-Operations/Czerkawski/p/book/9781032479903Connect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights: → Subscribe to the Gaming Rally Newsletter www.gamingrally.netChapters:00:00 Intro01:40 What is game economy design?05:07 Common misconceptions about game economies07:45 Player experiences & roguelite preferences11:14 Target audiences & mobile vs. hardcore players14:57 Single-player vs multiplayer economy design17:09 Biggest challenges in economy systems22:40 Vertical vs. horizontal progression explained24:23 Marvel Snap’s clean economy breakdown29:04 Cosmetics, battle passes, and player psychology33:35 Balancing free vs. premium currency37:02 Testing whether an economy “feels good”39:31 Charlie’s career journey across Europe43:59 Lessons from different studio cultures45:47 Defending economy design decisions with stakeholders47:46 Leadership, alignment, and team dynamics51:41 Structuring your work week as a creative lead57:31 Why economy design is one of the hardest jobs in game dev59:28 Breaking into game economy design01:01:53 Writing the book: Game Economy Design01:03:40 Closing thoughts and how to connect with Charlie#GameDesign #GameEconomy #MonetizationDesign #VideoGameDevelopment #IndieDev

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