The Fisher Change Curve: Navigating The Emotional Side Of Change
Change is rarely just a rational process — it’s an emotional journey.
In this episode of Sticky From The Inside, I’m joined by John Fisher, business psychologist, constructivist thinker, and creator of the Fisher Change Curve. His model goes beyond the Kubler-Ross grief curve to capture the messy, shifting emotions people actually experience during change, from anxiety and fear, to guilt, confusion, and eventual acceptance.
We explore why organisations so often mishandle change, the crucial difference between self-initiated and imposed change, and the role of emotional triggers like SCARF. John also shares practical ways leaders can support their teams and themselves through uncertainty, plus his three Sticky Notes of advice for navigating change with confidence and compassion.
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Key Takeaways
Change is emotional, not just rational. People experience fear, guilt, and confusion — not just a neat process plan.
Kubler-Ross isn’t enough. Grief stages don’t capture the nuance of organisational or self-initiated change.
Small wins create momentum. Celebrating quick wins helps rebuild confidence and reduces resistance.
Leaders must engage with honesty. Open conversations, empathy, and clarity move teams from compliance to commitment.
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Key Moments
The key moments in this episode are:
0:01:10 – Why change is never just a process problem
0:05:57 – Meet John Fisher: from radar systems to psychology
0:08:22 – Why the emotional side of change matters
0:11:35 – Constructivism and interpretation in change
0:14:22 – Do we treat change differently at work than in life?
0:17:05 – Self-initiated vs imposed change: why control matters
0:21:09 – Why Kubler-Ross isn’t enough for organisational change
0:24:03 – Introducing the Fisher Change Curve
0:27:58 – Stages of the curve: from anxiety to acceptance
0:34:53 – Quick wins, small steps, and sustainable change
0:36:39 – SCARF triggers and why leaders misjudge readiness
0:41:36 – Practical advice: honesty, engagement, and WIIFM
0:45:28 – John’s three Sticky Notes of advice
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Join The Conversation
Find Andy Goram on LinkedIn here
Listen to the Podcast on YouTube here
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Check out the Bizjuicer website here
Get a free consultation with Andy here
Check out the Bizjuicer blog here
Download the podcast here
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Useful Links
Follow John Fisher on LinkedIn here
Find the C2D website here
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Full Episode Transcript
Get the full transcript of the episode here
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49:14
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49:14
Having Tough Conversations: What Leaders Can Learn From the Locker Room
Imagine walking into a locker room just moments after a crushing defeat. Players are angry, deflated, maybe even in tears — and then a sideline reporter steps up and asks the question nobody wants to hear.
That’s where Emmy Award-winning sports broadcaster and communications coach Jen Mueller thrives. With 25 years in Sports Journalism, covering high profile sports teams such as the Seattle Seahawks and Mariners, and as founder of Talk Sporty to Me, Jen has mastered the art of having tough conversations under pressure.
In this episode of Sticky From The Inside, Jen reveals what leaders can learn from the sports world about facing into tough conversations with clarity, honesty, and respect. From avoiding false praise to creating psychological safety, she shares practical tools to help managers and teams tackle difficult moments without damaging trust.
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Key Takeaways
Avoidance erodes trust. Not having tough conversations leaves people guessing — and usually assuming the worst.
Be honest with praise. Empty compliments damage credibility; accurate feedback builds respect.
Clarity reduces fear. Preparation and specific goals make difficult conversations easier and more effective.
Respect the person. Tough moments handled with care can strengthen relationships, not break them.
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Key Moments
The key moments in this episode are:
0:01:10 – Why tough conversations matter more than ever in leadership
0:02:43 – Meet Jen Mueller: Emmy-winning sports journalist and communications coach
0:05:19 – From the side lines to the office: lessons from 25 years in sport
0:09:27 – Why leaders avoid tough conversations (and the cost of silence)
0:15:04 – The danger of false praise and how it kills credibility
0:21:14 – “If you’re not willing to have that conversation, you lose trust”
0:26:41 – Clarity, preparation, and why leaders shouldn’t “wing it”
0:32:38 – Respect, emotions, and reading the room under pressure
0:38:16 – Turning tough conversations into relationship-building moments
0:43:55 – Jen’s three Sticky Notes of advice
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Join The Conversation
Find Andy Goram on LinkedIn here
Listen to the Podcast on YouTube here
Follow the Podcast on Instagram here
Follow the Podcast on Twitter here
Follow the Podcast on Facebook here
Check out the Bizjuicer website here
Get a free consultation with Andy here
Check out the Bizjuicer blog here
Download the podcast here
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Useful Links
Follow Jen Mueller on LinkedIn here
Follow Jen Mueller on Instagram here
Follow Jen Mueller on X here here
Find the "Talk Sporty To Me" website here
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Full Episode Transcript
Get the full transcript of the episode here
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46:35
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46:35
Self-Empathy. The Leadership Keystone
Empathy is often described as a “soft skill” — something nice to have, but not essential for business. But what if we’ve been thinking about it all wrong?
In this episode of Sticky From The Inside, I’m joined by Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller — TEDx speaker, executive coach, host of The Empathic Leader podcast, and author of The Empathic Leader: How EQ via Empathy Transforms Leadership for Better Profit, Productivity, and Innovation.
Melissa introduces the idea of practical empathy — empathy as a skill you can develop, measure, and apply every day. We explore why empathy starts at home with self-empathy, the leadership keystone. She explains how reflection and awareness drive better leadership decisions, and why empathy and judgment cannot exist in the same space. Along the way, Melissa shares personal stories, research insights, and practical steps leaders can use to build cultures that are more innovative, more productive, and more human.
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Key Takeaways
Self-empathy is the keystone. Leaders can’t show empathy for others if they don’t first understand and connect with themselves.
Reflection builds awareness. Daily self-reflection and awareness of impact create the foundation for better decisions and relationships.
Empathy is a skill, not fluff. Practical empathy is skills-based, data-driven, and outcomes-oriented — not just “being nice.”
Empathy and judgment can’t coexist. Removing judgement opens the door for leaders to grow, connect, and build trust.
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Key Moments
The key moments in this episode are:
0:01:10 – Why empathy matters more than ever in leadership
0:02:45 – Meet Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller: researcher, coach, author
0:05:26 – A career unravelled: when organisations show no empathy
0:07:05 – What Melissa means by “practical empathy”
0:09:43 – Can empathy be learned, or is it innate?
0:12:30 – Defining self-empathy: the leadership keystone
0:16:27 – The role of judgment and why it blocks empathy
0:22:09 – The path to building self-empathy: reflection, awareness, empathy
0:30:28 – How self-empathy leads to corrective action and growth
0:36:38 – Performative empathy: why saying it isn’t enough
0:41:56 – The business case: empathy’s impact on profit, productivity, and innovation
0:45:51 – Melissa’s three Sticky Notes of advice
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Join The Conversation
Find Andy Goram on LinkedIn here
Listen to the Podcast on YouTube here
Follow the Podcast on Instagram here
Follow the Podcast on Twitter here
Follow the Podcast on Facebook here
Check out the Bizjuicer website here
Get a free consultation with Andy here
Check out the Bizjuicer blog here
Download the podcast here
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Useful Links
Follow Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller on LinkedIn here
Find the EQ via Empathy website here
Listen to The Empathic Leader Podcast here
Get "The Empathic Leader" book here
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Full Episode Transcript
Get the full transcript of the episode here
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48:41
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48:41
The 3 Keys To Build Strong Business Relationships
Strong business relationships don’t happen by accident — they’re built with intention, consistency, and genuine care. In this episode of Sticky From The Inside, I’m joined by Brad Englert, business advisor, former CIO at the University of Texas, and author of Spheres of Influence: How to Create and Nurture High-Quality Connections.
Brad shares the three keys to build strong business relationships that last. Drawing on decades of leadership experience and client work, he explains how these principles work in practice and why so many leaders unintentionally undermine their relationships by skipping them.
We explore real-world stories of trust, missteps, and turning points — from leading complex change to creating partnerships that stand the test of time. Whether you’re managing stakeholders, working with clients, or leading a team, Brad’s approach will help you build stronger, more mutually beneficial relationships that drive results.
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Key Takeaways
Relationships need intention. Strong partnerships aren’t built on chance — they’re created with purpose and consistency.
Know their goals. Understanding someone’s aspirations is the first step to earning trust and creating value.
Set clear expectations. Misunderstandings shrink when everyone knows what’s expected from the start.
Care about their success. Genuine care turns transactions into long-term, mutually beneficial relationships.
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Key Moments
The key moments in this episode are:
0:01:10 – Welcome and why relationships matter now
0:03:25 – Meet Brad Englert: advisor, former CIO, author of Spheres of Influence
0:04:08 – From CIO to advisor: lessons that shaped Brad’s approach
0:09:40 – Partnerships and trust: the foundation of strong relationships
0:15:38 – When ‘selling’ erodes trust (and what to do instead)
0:19:38 – Building relationships with intention inside complex organisations
0:26:04 – A simple system to stay connected and build strong business relationships
0:33:25 – Where to start when you’re early in your career or lack influence
0:35:32 – When relationships go wrong: how to reset and repair
0:49:25 – Brad's 3 Sticky Notes of advice
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Join The Conversation
Find Andy Goram on LinkedIn here
Listen to the Podcast on YouTube here
Follow the Podcast on Instagram here
Follow the Podcast on Twitter here
Follow the Podcast on Facebook here
Check out the Bizjuicer website here
Get a free consultation with Andy here
Check out the Bizjuicer blog here
Download the podcast here
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Useful Links
Follow Brad Englert on LinkedIn here
Find the 3 offers on Brad's website here
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Full Episode Transcript
Get the full transcript of the episode here
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45:28
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45:28
The HR Crisis Behind Workplace Wellbeing
In this episode of Sticky From The Inside, I speak with Dr. Jo Burrell, Chartered Psychologist, Co-Founder of Ultimate Resilience, and named on HR Magazine’s “HR Most Influential Thinker” list. Jo has just completed a survey of nearly 1,500 HR practitioners — and the findings are a wake-up call for organisations everywhere.
The results? High levels of stress, exhaustion, and burnout across HR teams. These are the very people responsible for safeguarding the physical and mental health of the workforce — yet many are running on empty themselves.
We explore why HR’s wellbeing is a business-critical issue, the case for HR Supervision, the stigma around showing emotion at work, and how leaders can build psychologically safe workplaces for all.
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Key Takeaways
HR is in crisis. Jo’s survey of nearly 1,500 HR practitioners reveals widespread stress, burnout, and exhaustion.
When HR suffers, so does everyone else. The wellbeing of HR teams underpins the success of all workplace wellbeing strategies.
Supervision is a lifeline. HR Supervision offers a safe space to protect and strengthen those responsible for supporting others.
Emotion isn’t weakness. Tackling the stigma around showing emotion is key to building psychologically safe workplaces.
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Key Moments
The key moments in this episode are:
0:01:10 – HR Crisis Behind Workplace Wellbeing
0:03:44 – Meet Dr. Jo Burrell and today’s focus on HR wellbeing
0:04:15 – Jo’s background and the work of Ultimate Resilience
0:08:25 – The Rachel Reeves moment: why visible emotion hit a nerve
0:11:55 – Why emotion gets judged at work (and what that does to trust)
0:20:16 – Survey spotlight: HR practitioners on stress and wellbeing
0:21:17 – Burnout and anxiety rates vs the general population
0:30:33 – What is HR Supervision? Scope, purpose, and value
0:33:32 – How supervision strengthens HR decision‑making and wellbeing
0:49:25 – Jo's 3 Sticky Notes of advice
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Join The Conversation
Find Andy Goram on LinkedIn here
Listen to the Podcast on YouTube here
Follow the Podcast on Instagram here
Follow the Podcast on Twitter here
Follow the Podcast on Facebook here
Check out the Bizjuicer website here
Get a free consultation with Andy here
Check out the Bizjuicer blog here
Download the podcast here
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Useful Links
Follow Dr. Jo Burrell on LinkedIn here
Find the Ultimate Resilience website here
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Full Episode Transcript
Get the full transcript of the episode here
Sticky From The Inside is the go-to podcast for anyone looking to transform their workplace into a thriving, competition-crushing powerhouse. We’re on a mission to change the fact that 65% of employees worldwide are disengaged from their work—because that’s not just bad for business, it’s a waste of time and talent.
Each episode, we bring you dynamic conversations with global experts, thought leaders, and innovative thinkers who share their strategies, stories, and secrets for building a “Stickier Business”—a place where employees are passionate, customers are loyal, and success is the norm.
If you’re ready to boost employee engagement, create an unbeatable workplace culture, and lead with impact, tune in and discover how to build a business that people love from the inside out.
Ireland