Hunters and Unicorns

On this episode of Hunters and Unicorns, hosts Simon Kouttis and Ollie Kuehne sit down with Parm Uppal, Chief Revenue Officer at Chainguard, to unpack what it actually takes to become a "first-pick" CRO, the person VCs and founders call first when they need world-class go-to-market leadership. Parm shares hard-won lessons from his career at AppDynamics, DataRobot, Benchling, Luminary, and now Chainguard, covering:

Why "develop down" beats "manage up" and how strong foundations make everything else easier

Building internal champions and followship the right way

The 3-stage framework for scaling revenue teams: product-market fit → repeatability → scale

The "elephant, deer, and rabbits" method for structuring sales territories

How his personal CRO scorecard cuts through inflated pipeline data in board meetings

Mistakes made chasing hype cycles and picking startups at the wrong stage

Why coachability and character are the hardest things to interview for

Building a genuine CFO-CRO partnership and a common language with the board

Why open-source software security is the next seismic shift as AI coding tools accelerate

If you're a sales leader, aspiring CRO, or founder building your go-to-market org, this conversation is a masterclass in leadership, hiring, and scaling with intention.

This episode is sponsored by Aurasell—intelligently automate every aspect of your sales cycle with the first AI-native, full-stack GTM platform. 🔔 Subscribe for more conversations with top revenue leaders and operators.

#SalesLeadership #CRO #GoToMarket #B2BSales #StartupGrowth #RevenueLeadership #SalesStrategy #Chainguard #VentureCapital #TechSales #Podcast #Entrepreneurship #SaaS #OpenSourceSecurity #Leadership

Timestamps:

0:00 — Trailer

1:25 — Introduction & Guest Overview

2:07 — What Makes You a "First-Pick" CRO

3:52 — Authenticity, Internal Champions, and Developing Talent

12:29 — The Elephant, Deer, and Rabbits Framework

17:02 — Your Key Priorities in the First 90 Days

22:01 — Pain Now vs. Pain Later

25:08 — Hiring for Coachability and Character

29:47 — Balancing Managing Up and Managing Down

31:20 — Learning From Your Biggest Mistakes at DataRobot

34:47 — Why You Built Your Own CRO Scorecard

43:52 — Building Relationships With VCs and Boards

47:56 — What Makes Someone a True Internal Champion

51:36 — "Develop Down": The Philosophy Behind Everything

52:25 — Why You Left Benchling for Chainguard

59:59 — Closing & Final Thoughts

What if the traditional path to becoming a CRO isn't the only path?

In this episode of Hunters and Unicorns, Ollie Kuehne and Simon Kouttis sit down with Ozge Tuncel Ozcan, Chief Revenue Officer at Forter, to explore her unconventional journey from engineering and customer success to leading an entire revenue organization.

Ozge shares why revenue is much more than bookings and pipeline, how her experience across customer success, professional services, sales development, and post-sales shaped her leadership, and why listening to customers can become a CRO's greatest advantage. The conversation also explores customer retention, product feedback, GTM strategy, AI, and why companies need to connect innovation, sales, and customer success instead of treating them as separate functions.

In this episode:

• Ozge's unconventional journey to CRO

• Why customer understanding is at the heart of revenue

• How customer success shaped her sales leadership

• Why CROs need to think beyond bookings and pipeline

• Connecting product, sales, and customer success

• Using customer feedback to drive innovation

• Building a more cohesive GTM organization

• Why listening may be the most underrated leadership skill

 

About Our Sponsor: Big thanks to Aurasell for sponsoring this episode. Aurasell is an AI-native GTM platform designed to intelligently automate every aspect of the sales cycle from prospecting and deal management to forecasting and coaching.

Subscribe to Hunters and Unicorns for more conversations with the leaders building, scaling, and transforming high-growth technology companies.

#HuntersAndUnicorns #OzgeTuncelOzcan #Forter #CRO #SalesLeadership #GTM #RevenueLeadership #CustomerSuccess #B2BSales #gtmstrategy

Timestamps:

00:00 Trailer

02:58 What Defines you as a CRO?

04:49 The Power of Listening

07:51 From Engineer to CRO

09:17 From MBA to McKinsey

12:00 The MongoDB Opportunity

18:00 Building a Customer-First GTM

24:00 Why Customer Success Matters

31:59 The Next Generation CRO

34:08 The Future of AI Adoption

36:20 How to Evaluate a Company

41:28 Innovation Meets GTM

45:01 Building a World-Class GTM Team

51:34 The Future of AI Commerce

54:12 Building Careers, Not Jobs

56:08 The New Path to CRO

What makes a senior GTM leader leave a successful career behind and bet on a company taking on one of the biggest challenges in AI?

In this episode of Hunters and Unicorns, hosts Ollie Kuehne and Simon Kouttis sit down with Alex Varel, EVP of GTM at Cerebras, to unpack the decision that brought him into the world of AI infrastructure. Alex shares what he saw in Cerebras, why the demand for AI compute convinced him, and what he learned from moving between companies like MongoDB and Cerebras.

In this episode:

• Why Alex chose Cerebras over other opportunities

• What makes Cerebras' AI infrastructure different

• Taking on established players like NVIDIA

• The importance of product differentiation in GTM

• What Alex saw when he first met Cerebras' leadership

• Why challenging markets attract great sales leaders

• The mindset behind building and scaling a GTM organization

A conversation about AI, enterprise sales, GTM leadership, career decisions, and what it takes to bet on a massive opportunity before everyone else sees it.

Subscribe to Hunters and Unicorns for more conversations with the leaders building the future of technology and sales.

About Our Sponsor: Big thanks to Aurasell for sponsoring this episode. Aurasell is an AI-native GTM platform designed to intelligently automate every aspect of the sales cycle—from prospecting and deal management to forecasting and coaching.

Timestamps:

0:00 — Trailer

1:45 — Welcome & Introduction

4:17 — How Did You Know Cerebras Was the Right Bet?

8:46 — How Cerebras Came to His Attention

11:37 — Meeting Andrew Feldman & the Taco Story

17:10 — Getting Up to Speed on a Technical Product

20:14 — Tackling a Highly Technical Sale

22:32 — Shifting From Feature Selling to Value Selling

26:35 — Growth & Scale — What It Looks Like Now

27:50 — How He Sees the Market Changing in 3 to 5 Years

32:03 — How He's Had to Change as a Leader

34:20 — Hanging Back & Proving Himself First

37:25 — What From the Old Playbook Transferred

43:34 — The No BS Culture at Cerebras

48:08 — Why You Don't Need a Large Sales Team

49:31 — European Expansion

51:42 — Advice for Anyone Making the Hardware Leap

54:30 — How to Assess a Comp Plan

56:47 — Imposter Syndrome at Cerebras

57:53 — Closing

What happens when you're winning every deal—but your team is quietly reaching its breaking point?

For Zach Sikora, CRO at Endor Labs, one of the biggest leadership lessons of his career came when he realized that driving results wasn't enough. His team was succeeding, but they were also fatigued and he risked creating a culture built around compliance rather than commitment. In this episode of Hunters and Unicorns, Simon Kouttis and Ollie Kuehne sit down with Zack to explore his journey from EMC and AppDynamics to People.ai and now Endor Labs, and the leadership lessons he learned along the way. Zack shares the moment his COO warned him that he might have a “mutiny” on his hands, why accountability has to come with empathy, and how explaining the “why,” using data, humanizing leadership, and giving people a voice transformed the way his team operated. The conversation also explores building a modern GTM organization, the role of RevOps and enablement, AI and application security, Endor Labs' growth journey, and why developing leaders is just as important as hiring more sales reps.

In this episode:

• The leadership mistake that nearly cost Zack his team's commitment

• Why winning doesn't mean your leadership approach is working

• The difference between compliance and commitment

• How to balance accountability with empathy

• Why leaders need to explain the “why” behind every decision

• How data can help bring sales teams along with the strategy

• Why RevOps and enablement should come before scaling headcount

• Building a culture focused on leadership development

• How AI is changing application security and software development

• Endor Labs' growth strategy and 100% channel approach

• What it really means to build a high-performing GTM organization

About Zack Sikora

Zack Sikora is Chief Revenue Officer at Endor Labs, with leadership experience at EMC, AppDynamics, People.ai, and Endor Labs. His experience spans high-growth technology, enterprise sales, go-to-market strategy, and revenue leadership, with a strong focus on building teams and developing leaders.

About Our Sponsor:

Big thanks to Aurasell for sponsoring this episode. Aurasell is an AI-native GTM platform designed to intelligently automate every aspect of the sales cycle from prospecting and deal management to forecasting and coaching.

Subscribe to Hunters and Unicorns for conversations with the leaders building, scaling, and transforming high-growth technology companies.

#HuntersAndUnicorns #ZachSkora #EndorLabs #SalesLeadership #GTM #RevenueLeadership #SalesManagement #SalesStrategy #AI #Cybersecurity #B2BSales #leadership

Timestamps:

0:00 — Trailer

1:28 — Welcome & Introduction

2:43 — When It Started to Click as a Leader

4:18 — Accountability With Empathy — The Turning Point

5:48 — How He Actually Implemented Change

7:47 — From Compliance to Commitment

8:31 — Leaning on Mentors Through the Hard Moments

9:09 — The App Dynamics Story — A Baptism of Fire

12:34 — What Made Him Choose App Dynamics Over MongoDB & Medallia

14:52 — Why Dolly Said He Wasn't Ready

16:05 — The Rise to Third Line — Zigs, Zags & Getting Passed Over

18:11 — How to Systematically Build a Team From Scratch

20:21 — The Power of Activity Data & Leading Indicators

22:55 — When Did He Know He Wanted to Be a CRO?

25:08 — Was He Always Chasing the Title?

28:50 — Playbook First, Domain Second

32:18 — How Important Is Founder Support for Your Strategy?

33:39 — The Critical Criteria When Assessing a CRO Opportunity

35:24 — How to Assess a Founder Before You're In

38:03 — What Drew Him to Endor Labs

40:07 — The Four Problems Endor Is Built to Solve

43:49 — How Endor Stands Up Against the Big Players

46:10 — What's Stopping a Foundational Model From Doing This?

48:04 — Where Endor Is on the Journey & What's Next

49:44 — Why Endor Is a Great Place for Sales Leaders Right Now

51:18 — Closing

What happens when one of the most intense, competitive leaders in software sales finally decides to slow down?

For Alex Patman, former CRO at Drata, stepping away from the game wasn't about losing his edge—it was about gaining perspective. In this episode of Hunters and Unicorns, Simon Kouttis and Ollie Kuehne sit down with Alex to unpack his journey from Fuze and Okta to becoming CRO at Drata, the mindset that drove his rapid rise through the software industry, and the leadership principles behind his success.

Alex opens up about the tragic loss of his brother, why he made the decision to take time away from work, and how stepping back has changed his perspective on family, health, leadership, and his next professional mission. The conversation also explores the rapidly changing AI era, the pressures of modern sales leadership, and what it really takes to build and lead high-performing go-to-market teams. From increasing intensity and narrowing the focus to raising standards and leading from the front, Alex shares the playbook, principles, and competitive mindset that have shaped his career.

In this episode:

• Alex's journey from Fuze and Okta to CRO at Drata

• Why pressure is a privilege—and the mindset of a “90-day contract”

• How tragedy and time away from work changed his perspective

• The importance of family, health, and mental resilience

• Why curiosity and competitiveness can accelerate a career

• Alex's perspective on the AI era and the future of software sales

• The leadership principles behind high-performing GTM organizations

• Why leaders need to increase intensity, narrow the focus, and raise standards

• The importance of trust, communication, humility, and collective responsibility

• How taking a step back can become the slingshot for the next chapter

About Alex Patman

Alex Patman is a former CRO at Drata and an experienced go-to-market leader who has built his career across high-growth technology companies including Fuze, Okta, and Drata. Known for his intensity, curiosity, competitiveness, and pace-setting leadership style, Alex has become one of the most prominent emerging leaders in software sales.

Subscribe to Hunters and Unicorns for conversations with the leaders building, scaling, and transforming high-growth technology companies.

About Our Sponsor:

Big thanks to Aurasell for sponsoring this episode. Aurasell is an AI-native GTM platform designed to intelligently automate every aspect of the sales cycle—from prospecting and deal management to forecasting and coaching.

#HuntersAndUnicorns #AlexPatman #Drata #SalesLeadership #GTM #SoftwareSales #AI #SalesStrategy #RevenueLeadership #B2BSales #ArtificialIntelligence #sales

Timestamps:

0:00 — Trailer

1:17 — Welcome & Introduction

2:50 — Why Alex Is Taking Time Off

6:03 — Filling the Void & Keeping the Mind Active

10:47 — Why It's Important to Sit Through This

15:30 — Evaluating the Hardware Space

19:09 — Separating Signal From Hype in AI

21:19 — What He Looks for in a Founder

26:33 — How to Assess Founder GTM Commitment

30:04 — Career Arc — Fuse to Octa to Drata

37:33 — What Set Him Apart at Octa

41:37 — When Adam Arens Took Notice

44:17 — Managing Impatience & Over-Ambition

51:05 — Transitioning Into the CRO Seat

53:35 — Is It a Lonely Seat?

56:48 — Work-Life Balance as CRO

1:01:34 — What He Loves Most About the Game

1:02:54 — Guiding Principles & Leadership Style

1:05:41 — Closing