The Business Development Podcast

In episode 336 of The Business Development Podcast, Kelly sits down with Andrew Z. Brown, a leading authority in B2B referral marketing, strategic alliances, and sales acceleration, to unpack a powerful truth most businesses overlook. Your biggest deals are not coming from cold outreach, ads, or chasing leads. They are coming from referrals. Andrew explains how a well timed and well informed referral can move a prospect from the top of the funnel to the bottom, often eliminating competitors entirely from the conversation.
Together, they break down why most companies treat referrals like luck instead of building a system around them, and how that mindset is costing them their most valuable opportunities. From the dangers of the “hope and dream” approach to the structure of a managed referral program, this episode shows how to turn referrals into a predictable, intentional, and scalable growth strategy that drives real results.

Key Takeaways:
Your biggest deals often come from referrals, but most businesses leave them completely unmanaged.
Referrals are not luck. They can be built into a predictable, intentional revenue system.
A strong referral can move a prospect from the top of the funnel to the bottom faster than almost any other strategy.
Hope is not a referral strategy. Waiting for people to send business is not the same as managing referrals.
A referral source needs three things to be effective: skill, opportunity, and willingness.
Your current customers are not always your best referral sources. Professional colleagues, former clients, suppliers, and strategic partners may be stronger.
Referral sources are putting their reputation on the line, so they need to trust you deeply before referring you.
The “half-assed” referral approach can damage relationships when people are used without context, support, or respect.
Fewer high-quality referral sources can outperform a large, unfocused channel program.
Managed referrals work best when you support your referral sources, make them feel valued, and help them succeed.

Connect with Andrew Z. Brown:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewzbrown/
Email: [email protected]
Andrew has also generously offered 10 free copies of his book, Get Referred, to listeners of The Business Development Podcast. Just DM Kelly Kennedy on LinkedIn and he will pass your name and address along to Andrew.
Free resource:
Andrew also offered access to his Get Referral Ready webinar, designed to help you understand whether your business is ready to build a managed referral program.
Watch it here: https://www.getreferred.biz/get-referral-ready-registration
Get the book:
If this episode opened your eyes to the power of referrals, Andrew’s book Get Referred is the next step. It breaks down how to turn referrals from random opportunities into a structured, intentional, and predictable business development system.
Get the book here: https://www.getreferred.biz/get-referred-the-book

🎸 Sponsor Shoutouts: Thank You Colin Harms & Jamie Crozier for your steadfast support of The Business Development Podcast! 🫶
The Business Development Podcast is proudly supported by Hypervac Technologies, Hyperfab, Thunder Bay Hydraulics Inc, and Atlas Elite Lifts. 🎸⭐
🔹 Hypervac Technologies: North America’s leader in vacuum truck manufacturing, building high performance hydrovac and industrial vacuum trucks designed for the toughest field conditions. www.hypervac.com
🔹 Hyperfab: The custom fabrication division of Hypervac, delivering engineered solutions and specialized builds tailored to demanding industrial applications. www.hyperfab.ca
🔹 Thunder Bay Hydraulics Inc: A trusted provider of hydraulic cylinder repair and manufacturing, supporting industries like mining, forestry, and construction with reliable, high quality service. www.thunderbayhydraulics.com
🔹 Atlas Elite Lifts: A premium supplier of automotive lift systems, focused on performance, safety, and long term reliability for shops and garages. www.atlaselitelifts.com
Join The Catalyst Club Community
If you are serious about growth, leadership, and surrounding yourself with high level thinkers, The Catalyst Club is where you need to be.
Join us here: www.kellykennedyofficial.com/thecatalystclub
Mentioned in this episode:
Hyperfab Midroll

Episode 335 of The Business Development Podcast features Rochelle Carrington, a former seven-figure sales leader who now helps high performers break through the invisible barriers holding them back. In this conversation, Rochelle introduces the concept of “performance drag,” the accumulated emotional pressure in the nervous system that quietly slows decision-making, clouds clarity, and makes growth feel harder than it should. She challenges the traditional belief that success starts with mindset, revealing instead that emotions drive thought, not the other way around, and that many high performers are stuck not because they lack skill or strategy, but because their internal systems are working against them.
Together, we unpack why burnout is often misdiagnosed, why pushing harder eventually stops working, and how unresolved emotional patterns can limit execution, revenue, and momentum over time. Rochelle shares how her Emotional Blueprinting methodology helps entrepreneurs, CEOs, and leaders remove these hidden constraints without reliving past experiences, allowing them to regain clarity, energy, and performance quickly. This episode is a powerful reframe for anyone who feels like they’re doing everything right but not moving the way they should, and offers a new path forward rooted in alignment, awareness, and emotional mastery.

📩 Get in touch with Rochelle Carrington
Learn more about Emotional Blueprinting and her work here:
👉 https://www.emotionalbp.com/
🧠 Find out how much performance drag you’re carrying
Take the 1-minute scorecard:
👉 https://form.typeform.com/to/wCNWE0TN?typeform-source=www.emotionalbp.com

Key Takeaways:
Emotions drive results before thoughts ever do, so trying to “think your way” to success without emotional alignment will always hit a ceiling.
High performers don’t usually lack skill or strategy, they carry hidden pressure that slows execution and creates what Rochelle calls performance drag.
Burnout is often a misdiagnosis, the real issue is accumulated stress in the nervous system that never got resolved.
You can know exactly what to do and still not do it because your nervous system is perceiving threat and holding you back.
The nervous system only cares about safety, not success, so if growth feels like a threat, you will unconsciously avoid it.
Emotional patterns are built over years and run automatically, which is why success can suddenly feel harder even when you’re more capable than ever.
Awareness and mindset work alone are not enough, you cannot use a logical tool to fix an emotional problem.
Momentum doesn’t require constant force, but many high performers create pressure by believing they must always be “on” to keep things moving.
Unresolved emotional experiences stack up like open files, and until they are cleared, they continue to drain focus, energy, and performance.
You don’t have to relive past experiences to move forward, when emotional patterns are properly resolved, clarity, energy, and execution return quickly.

The Business Development Podcast is proudly supported by Hypervac Technologies, Hyperfab, Thunder Bay Hydraulics Inc, and Atlas Elite Lifts. 🎸⭐
Hypervac Technologies is North America’s leader in vacuum truck manufacturing, engineering high performance hydrovac and industrial vacuum trucks built to handle the toughest demands in the field. If you work in construction, utilities, or industrial services, check them out at https://hypervac.com
Hyperfab, the fabrication division of Hypervac, delivers custom-built solutions engineered to handle the toughest demands in the field. Learn more at https://hyperfab.ca
Thunder Bay Hydraulics Inc has been a trusted name in hydraulic cylinder repair and manufacturing for decades, supporting industries like mining, forestry, and construction. Visit www.thunderbayhydraulics.com
Atlas Elite Lifts delivers premium automotive lift solutions built for performance, safety, and reliability. Learn more at www.atlaselitelifts.com
Join The Catalyst Club: www.kellykennedyofficial.com

Mentioned in this episode:
Hyperfab Midroll

Episode 334 with Ally Stone is a powerful journey through leadership, resilience, and what it truly means to put people first when everything is on the line. From building and scaling a multi-million-dollar restaurant group to leading through one of the most emotionally intense moments in business during COVID, Ally shares how real leadership shows up in action, not words. Her decision to feed hundreds of employees when the business shut down, instead of protecting margins, is a defining moment that reflects the culture she built and the values she stands for.
But this episode goes far deeper than business. Ally opens up about the life-altering moment in Tokyo that changed everything for her and her husband, leading to a complete shift in identity, priorities, and purpose. What follows is a raw and honest conversation about burnout, pressure, and rebuilding from the ground up, not just as a leader, but as a human being. This is an episode about becoming, about learning to lead yourself before you lead others, and about finding strength in the moments that break you.
Connect with Ally Stone
🌐 theinspiredleader.com

Key Takeaways:
Leadership is revealed in crisis, not comfort, and the decisions you make under pressure define your legacy.
People-first cultures are not a strategy, they are a commitment that shows up when it’s hardest to follow through.
Your team is the true engine of your business, not your product, pricing, or location.
Success in business is built on human connection, and when you invest in people, they invest back in you.
Burnout does not happen overnight, it builds quietly through ignored signals until your body forces you to stop.
You cannot lead others effectively if you are running on empty, self-leadership comes first.
Life can change instantly, and resilience is built through how you respond, not what happens to you.
Letting go of control and identity tied to your role can open the door to a more meaningful purpose.
Authentic leadership requires vulnerability, even when it feels uncomfortable or unfamiliar.
Growth is not about doing more, it is about becoming more, both as a leader and as a person.

🎸 Sponsor Shoutouts:
A huge thank you to Colin Harms and Jamie Crozier for your continued support of The Business Development Podcast. Your partnership helps make these conversations possible. 🫶
The Business Development Podcast is proudly sponsored by Hypervac Technologies, Hyperfab, Thunder Bay Hydraulics Inc., and Atlas Elite Lifts. 🎸⭐
Hypervac Technologies is North America’s leader in hydrovac excavation, delivering safe, non-destructive solutions for critical infrastructure and utility work.
🌐 www.hypervac.com
Hyperfab, the fabrication division of Hypervac, builds custom industrial solutions designed to perform in the toughest field conditions.
🌐 www.hyperfab.ca
Thunder Bay Hydraulics Inc. is a trusted leader in hydraulic cylinder repair, manufacturing, and system support for industries like mining, construction, and forestry.
🌐 www.thunderbayhydraulics.com
Atlas Elite Lifts provides premium automotive lift solutions built for safety, performance, and long-term reliability.
🌐 www.atlaselitelifts.com
Join The Catalyst Club Community: www.kellykennedyofficial.com
If you are serious about growth, leadership, and surrounding yourself with people who are actually moving the needle, The Catalyst Club is where that continues. Weekly live sessions, real conversations, and a community built to help you grow.
Mentioned in this episode:
Hyperfab Midroll

Some moments in life don’t make sense… but they stay with you forever. In Episode 333 of The Business Development Podcast, Kelly Kennedy sits down with Mike Schoenberger, CEO of Sunco Communications, for a conversation that goes far beyond business strategy. Together, they explore two deeply personal experiences they’ve never fully been able to explain, moments where they both knew something had happened before they were ever told. What unfolds is a powerful discussion on human connection, intuition, and the unseen forces that shape how we lead, think, and show up in the world.
This episode also dives into Mike’s journey building a $20M company rooted in people, culture, and authenticity, and why the leaders who win today are the ones willing to be vulnerable, present, and real. From leading with love versus fear to embracing the uncomfortable moments that drive growth, this is a conversation that challenges traditional thinking and reminds us that business is built on something much deeper than strategy alone.
Key Takeaways:
The leaders who win are the ones who are willing to be real, vulnerable, and fully seen by their teams.
Human connection is the foundation of business, not strategy, systems, or processes.
The most powerful growth often comes from moments you cannot explain but choose to learn from.
Leading from love creates trust and performance, while leading from fear creates tension and limitation.
Failure is not the opposite of success, quitting is, and every setback is an opportunity to grow.
Initiative is everything, don’t wait to be told what to do, just start and adjust as you go.
The strongest cultures are built when people feel safe to be vulnerable and make mistakes.
Real leadership requires slowing down, becoming aware, and making intentional decisions instead of reacting.
The more connected you are to yourself, the more effectively you can connect with others.
Success is not just built on what you know, but on how you show up for people every single day.

🔗 Connect with Mike Schoenberger
🌐 Website: https://mikeschoenberger.com/
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-schoenberger/

🎸 Sponsor Shoutouts
The Business Development Podcast is proudly supported by Hypervac Technologies, Hyperfab, Thunder Bay Hydraulics Inc, and Atlas Elite Lifts. 🎸⭐
Hypervac Technologies is North America’s leader in hydrovac excavation, delivering safe, non-destructive solutions for critical infrastructure projects. If you work in construction, utilities, or industrial services, check them out at www.hypervac.com
Hyperfab, the fabrication division of Hypervac, delivers custom-built solutions engineered to handle the toughest demands in the field. Learn more at www.hyperfab.ca
Thunder Bay Hydraulics Inc has been a trusted name in hydraulic cylinder repair and manufacturing for over 55 years, supporting industries like mining, forestry, and construction across North America. Visit www.thunderbayhydraulics.com
Atlas Elite Lifts delivers premium automotive lift solutions built for performance, safety, and reliability. If you are looking to upgrade your shop, check them out at www.atlaselitelifts.com
If you enjoy the show, please take a moment to support these incredible companies who make conversations like this possible. 🎸⭐
Join The Catalyst Club Community
If you are serious about growth, leadership, and surrounding yourself with high level thinkers, The Catalyst Club is where you need to be.
This is a private community for entrepreneurs, business leaders, and professionals committed to moving the needle every single week.
Join us here: 🌐 www.kellykennedyofficial.com
Mentioned in this episode:
Hyperfab Midroll

In Episode 332 of The Business Development Podcast, Jeroen Kraaijenbrink challenges one of the most common misconceptions in business today: that strategy belongs to leadership. With over 20 years of experience across academia and consulting, Jeroen breaks down why traditional, top-down strategy approaches consistently fail and what it really takes to build strategies that stick. His human-centered approach reframes strategy as a shared capability, not a static plan, and introduces the idea that everyone in an organization should be thinking and acting strategically.
This conversation dives into the shift from strategy as a one-time exercise to strategy as a daily practice. Jeroen explains how organizations can build strategic competence across teams, why adaptability is the most critical skill in today’s environment, and how leaders can move from control to empowerment to drive real execution. If you’ve ever built a plan that didn’t translate into results, this episode will challenge your thinking and give you a new way to approach strategy that actually works.

Key Takeaways:
Strategy should not belong only to leadership. It needs to become a capability built across the entire organization.
Strategy works best as a daily practice, not a once-a-year planning exercise. Real execution happens when it becomes part of normal operations.
Strategic thinking is not enough on its own. People also need the ability to act, align others, and execute.
Most strategy failures happen because the human side gets ignored. If people do not believe in it, they will not carry it forward.
Adaptability is one of the most valuable strategic skills a person can build. The people who adapt best tend to have stronger long-term success.
A plan still matters, even if it changes. It gives you direction and helps you recognize the right opportunities when they show up.
Tools do not make strategy work on their own. Frameworks only help when the people and processes behind them are strong.
Everyone in a company should spend some time thinking strategically. That habit cannot sit only with executives.
Big strategic change can start small. A single team or department can prove a better way before the whole company adopts it.
The best strategy leaders stay open-minded. They listen, learn, and stay willing to challenge their own assumptions.

🔗 Connect with Jeroen Kraaijenbrink
🌐 Strategy Inc: https://www.strategy.inc
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeroenkraaijenbrink/
📘 The One-Hour Strategy
Jeroen’s latest book, The One-Hour Strategy, flips the script on traditional planning and shows how to make strategy a daily habit across your entire organization.
Get your copy here: https://www.jeroenkraaijenbrink.com/One-Hour-Strategy

🎸 Sponsor Shoutouts
The Business Development Podcast is proudly supported by Hypervac Technologies, Hyperfab, Thunder Bay Hydraulics, and Atlas Elite Lifts. 🎸⭐
Hypervac Technologies is North America’s leader in hydrovac excavation, delivering safe, non-destructive solutions for critical infrastructure projects. If you work in construction, utilities, or industrial services, learn more at www.hypervac.com
Hyperfab, the fabrication division of Hypervac, delivers custom-built solutions engineered to handle the toughest demands in the field. Learn more at www.hyperfab.ca
Thunder Bay Hydraulics has been a trusted name in hydraulic cylinder repair and manufacturing for over 55 years, supporting industries like mining, forestry, and construction across North America. Visit www.thunderbayhydraulics.com
Atlas Elite Lifts delivers premium automotive lift solutions built for performance, safety, and reliability. If you are looking to upgrade your shop, check them out at www.atlaselitelifts.com
Mentioned in this episode:
Hyperfab Midroll