From Blacksmith to Billionaire: The Making of Patagonia’s Ethos
Patagonia has always been different. While so many companies lose their way when profits come before people, the planet, or even their own products, Patagonia continues to stay true to its values.In today’s episode of The Eric Ries Show, I speak with journalist David Gelles, author of Dirtbag Billionaire, his new book about founder Yvon Chouinard. We explore how Chouinard built Patagonia with an ethos of quality and conservation, how he resisted the corrupting pull of profit-at-all-costs, and why he ultimately gave the company away to protect its mission.We talk about what Patagonia’s story reveals about the possibility of building ethical companies that not only survive but thrive. And we make the case for putting strong protections in place from the very beginning, so that a company’s purpose can endure long after its founder is gone.—Where to find David Gelles:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidgelles/• X: https://x.com/dgelles• Substack: https://davidgelles.substack.com/• Website: https://davidgelles.com/—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:https://ericries.carrd.co/ • Podcast:https://ericriesshow.com/ • YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(02:30) Why Patagonia remains so little understood despite its visibility(05:47) How Yvon Chouinard resisted the corrupting influence of wealth(07:48) How Yvon’s rural upbringing shaped his enduring ethos(11:51) The pivotal moments that revealed a market for Yvon’s high-quality gear(16:17) Yvon’s partnership with Tom Frost and the expansion from climbing gear into apparel(18:06) How a local river fight sparked Yvon’s lifelong activism(21:32) Why Patagonia was able to resist the corporate pressures that erode values(27:46) David on what corruption meant to Yvon and his uncompromising philosophy(30:03) LTSE and alternative structures that protect values(33:48) A short history of shareholder primacy and general incorporation(36:03) Yvon’s aversion to conventional business culture(37:44) Doug Tompkins’s contrasting path from luxury to large-scale conservation(40:33) Yvon’s behind-the-scenes funding of Tompkins Conservation(42:19) Patagonia’s values of quality and conservation and the movements it spurred(51:11) Tony’s Chocolonely’s ethical approach to chocolate and influence on supply chains(52:34) How Yvon structured succession to protect Patagonia’s values(1:02:33) Examples of foundation-owned companies: Grundfos and Zeiss (1:03:47) A case for building protective structures from day one(1:06:06) Why mission-aligned, ethical companies don’t get as much press(1:10:04) The long-term value of taking the harder road(1:16:25) What financial reporting teaches us about prioritizing ethics(1:22:03) Why every company must define its own purpose (1:24:59) Final reflections on why companies can be run with values and integrity—You can find episode references at https://www.ericriesshow.com/—Production and marketing by Pen Name.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.
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1:28:48
“AI Will Break the Internet” — Cloudflare CEO’s Big Prediction
What if your company’s mission turned out to be bigger than you imagined?In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I speak with Matthew Prince, co-founder and CEO of Cloudflare, now a $70 billion company defending 20% of all internet traffic. We trace how Cloudflare’s mission wasn’t declared at the start, but discovered through a series of principled decisions, from protecting journalists and activists to making encryption free for everyone.We also explore today’s urgent challenges: how AI’s shift from search engines to answer engines threatens the web’s business model, why creators must be compensated, and what a sustainable, human-centered internet could look like.This is a conversation about technology, power, and what it means to build with principle.—Where to find Mathew Prince: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mprince/• X: https://x.com/eastdakota—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:https://ericries.carrd.co/ • Podcast:https://ericriesshow.com/ • YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(02:44) Cloudflare’s history of blogging (08:06) How Cloudflare got involved in safeguarding democracy (14:30) How Matthew learned Cloudflare would make enemies(16:42) Why Cloudflare stopped charging for encryption (18:36) How a series of principled decisions led to Cloudflare’s mission(26:24) Why a clear mission makes recruiting and building a company easier(32:00) Cloudflare’s culture of psychological safety around failure (34:18) Lessons from Cloudflare’s mission and scrappy early team(44:27) Why scale and valuation didn’t shake Cloudflare’s mission(50:12) How the shift from search to answers is reshaping the internet(1:01:00) Why we need a new business model to compensate content makers (1:03:48) Matthew’s vision for a sustainable future of creators and AI(1:06:26) How supporting creators sustains both the internet and Cloudflare’s mission(1:09:57) Lessons from Spotify on supporting creators(1:12:26) How Cloudflare handles its civic responsibility with transparency—You can find episode references at https://www.ericriesshow.com/—Production and marketing by Pen Name.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.
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1:18:58
Inside Vercel: The $3B giant that’s changed coding forever
In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Guillermo Rauch, CEO and founder of Vercel—a company powering the front end of the internet for brands like OpenAI, Nintendo, Chick-fil-A, and many more. Guillermo’s journey began far from Silicon Valley, in Argentina, where a Red Hat Linux CD changed the course of his life.We talk about how open source gave him a way in—and why he still believes it’s the ultimate growth engine for companies and careers. Guillermo shares what he learned from building developer tools used by millions, and how Vercel became the go-to platform for the AI era.In our conversation today, we talk about the following topics: • How open source paved the way for Guillermo’s career• The case for open source as a growth strategy• What makes Silicon Valley special, and how online communities can unlock similar opportunities• The gap between how elite companies ship software and how most others do• How Vercel became the go-to for AI startups• The future of the web: agents, AI clouds, and software 2.0• Guillermo’s take on vibe coding and why it’s more than just prompts to code• How recursive founder mode helps Vercel stay fast while scaling• The challenge of keeping Vercel open, fair, and resistant to abuse• And much more!—Where to find Guillermo Rauch: • X: https://x.com/rauchg• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rauchg/• Website: https://rauchg.com/—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:https://ericries.carrd.co/ • Podcast:https://ericriesshow.com/ • YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(01:31) Guillermo’s early encounter with open source and how it shaped his path into tech(08:44) Guillermo’s early contributions to the open source community (11:03) Why Guillermo ditched Linux for Mac OS(12:28) Guillermo’s contributions to MooTools(13:40) How Guillermo landed his first real job before even graduating high school(15:07) Guillermo’s early startups and the origins of his entrepreneurial drive(18:40) How moving to Silicon Valley ignited his ambition to found a company(23:45) The story of Vercel—and how it started with an open source project, Next.js(31:40) Open source’s impact on talent creation (33:46) Why building the harder thing up front makes everything easier downstream(36:30) What Google got right with Chrome—and how open sourcing it changed the game(39:55) What companies like OpenAI, Nintendo, and Chick-fil-A use Vercel for(43:57) Why so many AI startups are building on Vercel(51:52) What recursive founder mode is(58:17) How Guillermo finds value-aligned founders (1:02:03) Why nearly everyone at Vercel uses AI, without being told to(1:04:50) Using Bezos’s Day 1 mindset to fight bureaucracy and move fast(1:09:56) Vercel’s approach to vibe coding and AI safety(1:11:32) Guillermo’s thoughts on immigration (1:15:37) Why Vercel fights to keep its platform open, fair, and safe for everyone—You can find episode references at https://www.ericriesshow.com/—Production and marketing by Pen Name.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.
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1:19:17
How GitLab scaled to 30M users with transparency, remote work, and the ultimate employee handbook | Sid Sijbrandij
In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Sid Sijbrandij, co-founder and Executive Chair of GitLab—one of the world’s most radically transparent and values-driven software companies.Sid shares how GitLab evolved from an open-source side project into a publicly traded DevOps platform, all while remaining deeply aligned with its values. From turning down a $10 million offer to maintaining control through dual-class shares, Sid walks us through the principles and systems that have shaped GitLab from the start.We also delve into GitLab’s renowned, live, and public 2,000-page handbook—how it functions not only as documentation but also as a recruiting tool, cultural backbone, and governance mechanism.In our conversation today, we talk about the following topics:• Why Sid once cold-pitched a submarine inventor—and got hired• What led GitLab to turn down a $10M buyout and pursue an IPO• Why GitLab favors “boring solutions” by default—and avoids reinventing the wheel• The role of GitLab’s live, public handbook in building transparency and trust• Why every change at GitLab must be made in the handbook first• How the handbook supports hiring, alignment, and radical transparency• GitLab’s approach to decentralized decision-making• Why “customer results” sits at the top of GitLab’s values hierarchy• Sid’s case for open core as the future of software•How GitLab encourages informal connection in a remote-first culture—and the role of in-person meetups• And much more—Brought to you by:• Ahrefs – Get instant website traffic insights, without the noise. Learn more. —Where to find Sid Sijbrandij:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijbrandij/• X: https://x.com/sytses—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:https://ericries.carrd.co/ • Podcast:https://ericriesshow.com/ • YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(02:52) The origins of GitLab(04:15) The MVP of GitLab and how it has evolved to a DevOps platform (05:09) Sid’s internships and why he chose to work with submarines after(08:57) How Sid became a submarine engineer (11:10) How Ruby sparked Sid’s interest in programming (12:28) Why GitLab said no to $10M and chose YC and decided to go IPO(17:45) How GitLab kept control including granting 10x voting shares before going public(22:25) GitLab’s extreme commitment to their values (28:29) GitLab’s Handbook and how changes are made (33:11) How GitLab handles pushback and how the handbook builds trust (37:38) An explanation of buyer-based open core at GitLab (38:35) The challenges implementing a lean startup approach (45:26) Keeping the organization aligned: How GitLab reinforces their values (53:51) Why GitLab updates values (55:57) Why senior engineers have an easier time securing budget(57:21) Putting customers first: GitLab’s value hierarchy explained(59:08) The case for decentralized decision-making—and how GitLab makes it work(1:03:24) The handbook’s role in recruiting and building alignment(1:06:25) Maintaining transparency after IPO(1:10:55) The three phases of GitLab’s all-remote operating policy (1:17:04) How GitLab developed its open core business model (1:20:19) The trust-building power of open source and Sid’s case for open core(1:25:20) Protective governance measures GitLab helps companies take (1:29:28) How Sid has been doing on his cancer journey, and his work to help others —You can find episode references at https://www.ericriesshow.com/—Production and marketing by Pen Name.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.
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1:33:29
Turning down $200 million and the big bets that led to powering 40% of the internet
In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Matt Mullenweg, CEO of Automattic and co-founder of WordPress, the open-source platform that now powers 43% of the internet.Recorded on the 20th anniversary of Automattic, our conversation is a deep dive into what it takes to build enduring companies on top of open infrastructure. We explore Matt’s open-source philosophy, why WordPress has stayed true to its roots, and how Automattic continues to innovate, from pioneering remote work to rethinking compensation models.In our conversation today, we talk about the following topics: • The early days of WordPress and its open-source fork from b2/cafelog• Why trust is a company’s greatest asset—and how open source fuels it• The overlooked power of open standards like RSS• How open source moved from fringe to mainstream, and is even embraced by Microsoft • Why Automattic started remote-first in 2005, long before it was common• How global salaries help Automattic attract and retain top talent• Automattic’s alignment offer that reinforced team commitment and focus• What Matt’s excited about in AI• And much more!—Brought to you by:• Ahrefs – Get instant website traffic insights, without the noise. Learn more. —Where to find Matt Mullenweg: • X: https://x.com/photomatt• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattm/• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/photomatt/?hl=en• Website: https://ma.tt/—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:https://ericries.carrd.co/ • Podcast:https://ericriesshow.com/ • YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(02:05) Reflecting on 20 years of Automattic(03:14) Why Matt turned down an offer to buy WordPress for hundreds of millions of dollars(08:34) The story of WordPress and its open-source origins (15:15) How Matt’s love of jazz inspires his collaborative work style(16:12) The ethos of WordPress(18:38) Why WordPress followed web standards rather than create its own (23:30) The Four Freedoms of software and how open source builds trust(28:46) Why open source was once demonized—and what changed(33:35) Eric’s open source future prediction and Matt’s thoughts(38:03) Sol Price’s customer focus and why great businesses give more than they take(40:34) Why Matt started Automattic and chose to operate fully remote (49:34) More unique features of Automattic (54:40) Matt’s thoughts on when to go to court (58:15) Alignment offers, and other ways Automattic keeps employees aligned (1:01:52) The state of Automattic currently, and their new product, Beeper (1:04:26) Matt’s thoughts on AI (1:06:36) Advice for aspiring open source founders—and Matt’s dream projects—You can find episode references at https://www.ericriesshow.com/—Production and marketing by Pen Name.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Founder, entrepreneur, and best-selling author of The Lean Startup Eric Ries discusses how to build profitable companies for the long-term benefit of society. Ries talks with world-class technologists, thought leaders, executives, and others working to create a new ecosystem of trustworthy organizations with limitless potential for growth and a deep commitment to purpose. Together, they uncover the tools and methods to ensure the next generation of companies are designed to maximize human flourishing for generations.
Ireland