#258 Chris Whalen: No Recession, Tariffs Just 'a Distraction,' Why Stocks Rise & Gold Is 'a Great Trad
Chris Whalen, chairman of Whalen Global Advisors and author of The Institutional Risk Analyst blog, returns to the show to discuss his newly released book "Inflated: Money, Debt and the American Dream." Sponsors: Monetary Metals. https://monetary-metals.com/julia Kalshi: kalshi.com/julia In this episode, Whalen offers a contrarian perspective on current markets, dismissing recession fears while highlighting a "silent recession" in commercial real estate. He draws parallels between Trump and Andrew Jackson, explains why the Treasury-Fed relationship is America's most important economic factor, and predicts zero rate cuts this year despite market expectations. Whalen argues that America's addiction to inflation has benefited asset holders while hurting average citizens, creating a housing affordability crisis and warning of an impending commercial real estate collapse that could become "the new subprime."Links: Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/rcwhalen Website: https://www.rcwhalen.com/ The Institutional Risk Analyst: https://www.theinstitutionalriskanalyst.com/ Inflated book (2nd edition): https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/inflated-r-christopher-whalen/1146303673Timestamps:0:00 - Introduction and welcome back Chris Whalen 0:31 - Discussion about Chris's new book release 2:04 - Current market analysis and tariff situation 2:35 - Trump's fiscal plans and Congressional challenges 3:58 - Credit to Chris for predicting tariffs as "distraction" 4:21 - Chris's investment positions 5:09 - America's addiction to debt 7:35 - Treasury market and Fed priorities analysis 9:02 - Banks' lack of credit demand issue 11:22 - Inflation misconceptions 13:43 - Trump/Jackson parallel 15:33 - Fed/Treasury relationship change post-2008 17:09 - Trump's vision for economic role of government 18:06 - Solutions for national debt 19:37 - Inflation impact across economic classes 21:33 - Housing market issues and starter home costs 24:56 - 2% inflation compounding effects 26:08 - Inflation's role in addressing national debt 28:49 - Recession outlook discussion 30:36 - "Silent recession" in commercial real estate 31:55 - Why rate cuts aren't needed 33:37 - Commercial real estate as "the new subprime" 35:29 - Government as housing lender of last resort problems 37:06 - Closing remarks
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#257 Dr. Edward Altman: We're Entering The 'Stressed' Zone In The Credit Cycle, Why Bankruptcies Last Year Exceeded Financial Crisis Levels, And And Why Defaults Lead Recessions
Dr. Edward Altman, creator of the Z-Score bankruptcy prediction model and Max L. Heine Professor of Finance, Emeritus at the Stern School of Business, joins Julia La Roche on episode 257 for an in-depth discussion on where we are in the credit cycle. Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Monetary Metals. https://monetary-metals.com/julia In this episode, Ed Altman discusses the current state of the credit cycle. Dr. Altman explains that 2024 saw more Chapter 11 bankruptcy filings than any year since the Great Financial Crisis, with over 7,000 filings. He analyzes why the economy has moved from a "benign" phase to a "stress" phase in his credit cycle framework, highlighting the dichotomy between high-yield bonds and bank loans, the impact of floating-rate debt, and the growth of private credit markets. Dr. Altman also examines distressed exchanges as alternatives to bankruptcy, government debt concerns, and why credit cycles typically precede business cycles as leading economic indicators.Dr. Altman is a renowned professor and researcher for his bankruptcy prediction and credit risk analysis work. Dr. Altman earned his MBA and Ph.D. in Finance from the University of California, Los Angeles. He has been with NYU Stern School of Business since 1967. He is most famous for developing the Z-Score formula in the late 1960s. The Z-Score is a financial model that uses historical data to predict a company's likelihood of bankruptcy. This formula is widely used by investors, financial analysts, and auditors as a tool for predicting corporate defaults and an aid in credit risk management. Dr. Altman has published numerous books and articles on the topics of bankruptcy, corporate distress analysis, corporate financial restructuring, and credit risk. His work has had a significant impact on both academic finance and practical investment analysis. Links: Wiser Funding: https://www.wiserfunding.com/ Corporate Financial Distress, Restructuring and Bankruptcy Book: https://www.amazon.com/Corporate-Financial-Distress-Restructuring-Bankruptcy/dp/1119481805/NYU Stern: https://www.stern.nyu.edu/faculty/bio/edward-altman00:00 - Introduction to Dr. Edward Altman 01:17 - The current credit cycle and economy outlook 03:17 - Credit market dichotomy between high yield bonds and bank loans 05:43 - Floating rate vs fixed rate debt performance 09:16 - Credit cycle as a leading indicator for the business cycle 15:21 - Record high Chapter 11 bankruptcies in 2024 19:06 - Understanding distressed exchanges as a default technique 26:58 - The Z-Score: history and evolution 33:49 - Changes in corporate debt markets over the decades 36:37 - Bond rating equivalents for Z-Scores 38:32 - Comparing current conditions to the 2007 credit bubble 45:19 - Private credit market growth and impact 51:38 - Government debt concerns and interest payments 59:59 - Closing thoughts on the credit cycle and market outlook
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#256 Danielle DiMartino Booth On The Hidden Economic Indicators Flashing Red
Danielle DiMartino Booth, CEO and Chief Strategist for QI Research, a research and analytics firm, returns to The Julia La Roche Show for episode 256 for an FOMC day interview.Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Monetary Metals. https://monetary-metals.com/julia DiMartino Booth argues that Fed monetary policy remains overly restrictive while the labor market is "anything but solid." She points to concerning indicators including record credit card minimum payments, rising long-term unemployment, and declining full-time jobs. DiMartino Booth makes the case for immediate rate cuts to a floor of 2%, warning the economy now operates "without a safety net" after successive waves of debt-fueled growth. Looking forward, she expresses concern about geopolitical risks while finding hope in the strong work ethic of the younger generation.A global thought leader in monetary policy, economics, and finance, DiMartino Booth founded QI Research in 2015. She is the author of FED UP: An Insider’s Take on Why the Federal Reserve is Bad for America (Portfolio, Feb 2017), a business speaker, and a commentator frequently featured on CNBC, Bloomberg, Fox News, Fox Business News, BNN Bloomberg, Yahoo Finance and other major media outlets. Prior to QI Research, DiMartino Booth spent nine years at the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas. She served as Advisor to President Richard W. Fisher throughout the financial crisis until his retirement in March 2015. Her work at the Fed focused on financial stability and the efficacy of unconventional monetary policy. DiMartino Booth began her career in New York at Credit Suisse and Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette where she worked in the fixed-income, public equity, and private equity markets. DiMartino Booth earned her BBA as a College of Business Scholar at the University of Texas at San Antonio. She holds an MBA in Finance and International Business from the University of Texas at Austin and an MS in Journalism from Columbia University. Links: QI Research: https://quillintelligence.com/subscriptions/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/dimartinobooth Substack: https://dimartinobooth.substack.com/Fed Up: https://www.amazon.com/Fed-Up-Insiders-Federal-Reserve/dp/0735211655Timestamps: 0:00 - Opening commentary on Powell and monetary policy0:23 - Introduction and FOMC day discussion1:39 - Arguments that monetary policy is too restrictive2:49 - Labor market indicators and private sector layoffs4:13 - Credit card minimum payments and student loan impacts6:02 - Signs of financial stress in refinancing behaviors8:10 - Bankruptcy trends and distressed debt exchanges9:57 - Fed's dual mandate debate12:05 - Critique of Powell's selective history on Fed actions13:57 - Job market reality vs. Powell's "solid" characterization15:48 - Self-employment and full-time job losses17:50 - Sponsor segment19:08 - Labor market "scarring" and long-term unemployment21:12 - Federal debt approaching $38 trillion22:03 - Analysis of long-term debt cycles since Greenspan24:16 - Student loan wage garnishment concerns28:36 - Fed rate cut recommendations30:10 - Policy pushing money from real economy to financial assets33:00 - Tariffs discussion - why they're deflationary not inflationary36:38 - Real-world impacts of import costs38:26 - What keeps Danielle up at night - geopolitical concerns39:53 - What gives her hope - younger generation's work ethic42:17 - Information about Qi Research and closing thoughts
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#255 Grant Williams on the 100-Year Pivot That's Bigger Than Markets
Grant Williams, author of “Things That Make You Go Hmmm…” and host of The Grant Williams podcast, joins Julia La Roche on episode 255 where he discusses what he calls a fundamental "100-year pivot" reshaping the global landscape. Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Monetary Metals. https://monetary-metals.com/julia Williams warns that we've entered an "air pocket" where tariff impacts haven't yet fully manifested in corporate earnings but will soon emerge with significant consequences. He emphasizes a crucial mindset shift from "getting rich" to "staying rich," urging investors to prioritize capital preservation over chasing returns. Williams provides thought-provoking insights on gold's rise reflecting central bank diversification away from US treasuries, the questioning of foundational institutions, and why even his natural cynicism wasn't enough to prepare for the current economic climate. Throughout, he stresses that these changes extend far beyond markets, representing a once-in-a-generation transformation that requires deep reflection.Links: https://www.grant-williams.com/ https://twitter.com/ttmygh0:00 - Intro and welcome back Grant Williams0:54 - Big picture macro view question1:35 - Market uncertainty and volatility discussion5:52 - Signs of tariff effects appearing in data7:06 - Return to company fundamentals vs stock pricing7:35 - Question about holding liquidity8:18 - Buffett stepping down significance10:38 - Recent important diplomatic shifts with China and Japan14:53 - Discussion of "100 year pivot" and generational change18:01 - Understanding the new world we're navigating22:03 - Investment vs trading distinction in changing markets25:00 - Shift from "getting rich" to "staying rich" mindset27:19 - Gold discussion34:38 - Future of the US dollar40:14 - Shift to domestic-focused economic policies42:22 - Protecting assets vs making money in the new paradigm48:33 - Risks keeping Grant up at night52:29 - Not being "cynical enough" realization57:26 - Problems beyond markets affecting everyday lives59:56 - Final thoughts
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#254 Dr. Lacy Hunt: The Five Recessionary Forces Creating an Economic Interregnum
In Episode 254 of The Julia La Roche Show, legendary economist Dr. Lacy Hunt, Chief Economist at Hoisington Investment Management, analyzes what he calls an economic "interregnum" where five convergent forces are aligning to depress growth. Dr. Hunt methodically explains how tariffs will ultimately prove deflationary rather than inflationary, why the Fed's restrictive monetary policy is misplaced, how federal spending cuts are creating headwinds, why massive debt overhang limits policy effectiveness, and how changing demographics will impact long-term prospects. With over 56 years of experience and historical perspective dating back to the 1920s, Dr. Hunt delivers a sobering but authoritative prediction that recession lies ahead in 2025, describing it as "a long, difficult slog" rather than a brief downturn.Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Monetary Metals. https://monetary-metals.com/julia Dr. Hunt is an internationally known and award-winning economist. He received the Abramson Award from the National Association for Business Economics for "outstanding contributions in the field of business economics." Dr. Hunt is Executive Vice President and Chief Economist of Hoisington Investment Management Company (HIMCO).This is the 56th year in Dr. Hunt's career. He served as a Senior Economist for the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas. When he entered the Fed, William Martin was chair and was grappling with severe inflation and when Dr. Hunt left the Fed, Arthur Burns was chair and also trying to contain rampant price increases. Dr. Hunt served 23 years on the Board of Trustees at Temple University where he received his PhD in 1969, and is an honorary life trustee as well.Timestamps: 0:00 - Introduction and welcome1:16 - "Interregnum" explanation1:28 - Tariffs discussion begins2:08 - Economic boost from tariff announcements2:49 - Consumer buying ahead of tariffs3:42 - Employment impact of demand surge4:26 - Inventory accumulation5:03 - Federal spending decline (FY 2025)6:18 - Economy in frail condition7:05 - Beverage ratio analysis7:45 - Average hourly earnings indicator8:11 - April's wage growth weakness9:30 - Late Easter timing challenges10:31 - Recession prediction10:58 - Five convergent economic factors11:32 - Microeconomics of tariffs12:55 - Price elasticity in international trade14:31 - Historical context (1920s-1930s)15:44 - French devaluation of 192517:43 - Smoot-Hawley tariff impact19:45 - Chart explanation of M2 trend21:03 - Tariffs' impact on money supply22:15 - Monetary policy restrictiveness22:51 - Fed's "data dependency" critique25:31 - Other deposit liabilities explained28:38 - Fed policy recommendations29:37 - Tax cut potency limitations31:16 - Fed's need for longer-term view32:08 - Forward guidance discussion33:22 - Asset reallocation issues35:48 - Net national savings analysis37:39 - Birth rate economic connections39:46 - Immigration discussion42:52 - Recession confirmation43:49 - Historical economists on debt44:37 - Interest expense approaching defense spending46:18 - US debt impacts (125% of GDP)48:30 - Gross vs. net debt explanation49:48 - Fisher equation for bond yields53:00 - Tariffs' deflationary nature55:32 - High-tech sector growth analysis56:38 - Aircraft sector growth unsustainability57:11 - Federal spending outlook1:00:03 - Need for tariff dispute resolution1:01:18 - Closing remarks
Julia La Roche brings her listeners in-depth conversations with some of the top CEOs, investors, founders, academics, and rising stars in business. Guests on "The Julia La Roche Show" have included Bill Ackman, Ray Dalio, Marc Benioff, Kyle Bass, Hugh Hendry, Nassim Taleb, Nouriel Roubini, David Friedberg, Anthony Scaramucci, Scott Galloway, Brent Johnson, Jim Rickards, Danielle DiMartino Booth, Carol Roth, Neil Howe, Jim Rogers, Jim Bianco, Josh Brown, and many more. Julia always makes the show about the guest, never the host. She speaks less and listens more. She always does her homework.
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