The Kids or Childfree Podcast

Keltie is joined by freelance writer and author of the book, Fed Up: Emotional Labor, Women, and the Way Forward, Gemma Hartley.

Their discussion explores...
What terms like emotional labor, mental load, and invisible labor actually mean.


The interplay of these things within partnerships, and in particular, the decision to have kids.


Why having children exacerbates existing imbalances in relationships.


The impact of societal expectations on women, and how social conditioning causes women to shoulder more emotional labor.


Gemma's personal parenthood journey, as a mother of three, and how she and her partner corrected their emotional labor imbalance and built a more equitable partnership.
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(2:05) Meet Gemma & her Kids or Childfree decision (8:43)
(4:32) Defining emotional labor, mental load, and invisible labor
(11:16) Tips for navigating an emotional labor imbalance & parenthood
(23:20) How Gemma and her husband built a more equitable partnership
(36:36) Mental load with multiple kids
(46:04) Solo parenthood
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Gemma's Instagram ▸ https://www.instagram.com/gemmalhartley/
Gemma's Substack, Angry Woman ▸ https://gemmahartley.substack.com
Gemma's first book, Fed Up: Emotional Labor, Women, and the Way Forward ▸ https://bookshop.org/p/books/fed-up-emotional-labor-women-and-the-way-forward-gemma-hartley/933f0f3a89b3cb4b?ean=9780062856463&next=t  
Order Gemma's forthcoming book, No One Loves An Angry Woman ▸ https://bit.ly/3Z57qWU
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ABOUT GEMMA
Gemma Hartley is a longtime freelance writer, writing coach, yoga instructor and most notably author of Fed Up: Emotional Labor, Women, and the Way Forward. She has spoken on the topic of the mental load and emotional labor around the world, from corporate conferences to festivals at the Sydney Opera House. Her hope is to create work that encourages a more equitable world in which invisible labor is valued and supported by both personal partners and public policy alike.
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MORE HELP FOR YOUR KIDS OR CHILDFREE DECISION
Start Here: sign up for an upcoming WORKSHOP
🔗 https://kidsorchildfree.com/workshop
Join a GROUP PROGRAM
🔗 Kids or Childfree Group Program ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/kids-or-childfree-program
🔗Confidently Childfree Group Intensive ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/confidently-childfree-group-intensive
Access an ON DEMAND class
🔗 Peruse the entire On Demand Collection ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/ondemand
Join one of our monthly SUPPORT SERIES sessions
🔗 Kids or Childfree Support Series ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/kids-or-childfree-support-series
🔗Confidently Childfree Support Series ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/confidently-childfree-support-series
Work with me in 1-on-1 COACHING
🔗 https://kidsorchildfree.com/coaching
FREE resources ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/free-resources
CONNECT ONLINE
💻 Website ▸ http://kidsorchildfree.com
📸 Instagram ▸ http://instagram.com/kidsorchildfree
⏰ Tiktok ▸ https://tiktok.com/@kidsorchildfree
📽️ YouTube ▸ https://www.youtube.com/@KidsorChildfree 
👉 Brought to you by Keltie Maguire, Clarity Coach ▸ http://keltiemaguire.com
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Keltie is speaking with childfree trailblazer, Marcia Drut-Davis, about the ups and downs of her life without children.

They discuss...

 Marcia's public "coming out" of her childfree choice on the national TV show "60 Minutes" in 1974 — and the backlash that came with it.

 The stigma surrounding the childfree choice and the emotional toll it can take on those who choose it.

Marcia's friendships with moms — and what has been key to these relationships surviving the different seasons of parenthood.
The importance of young people in her life — and how you can cultivate intergenerational relationships.
The profound beauty that can be found in life's simple, and seemingly insignificant moments, and how these can be a source of immense joy. 
Live as an 83-year-old childfree woman
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(1:58) Meet Marcia and her Kids or Childfree decision 
(9:06) Announcing her childfree decision on "60 Minutes"
(16:56) Tips for telling family & friends that you're not having kids
(25:25) Community across generations
(39:04) Being childfree in your 80s
(46:15) Advice for people on the fence
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Marcia's Instagram ▸ https://www.instagram.com/childfree_guru/
Read Marcia's two books:
Confessions of a Childfree Woman ▸ https://bookshop.org/p/books/confessions-of-a-childfree-woman-a-life-spent-swimming-against-the-mainstream-marcia-drut-davis/adbfbde18db5546e?ean=9780615819235&next=t
What?! You Don't Want Children? ▸ https://bookshop.org/p/books/what-you-don-t-want-children-understanding-rejection-in-the-childfree-lifestyle-marcia-drut-davis/99ca98586b6991e2?ean=9781646693504&next=t
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ABOUT MARCIA
Marcia Drut-Davis is an American author, speaker, and longtime pioneer of the childfree-by-choice movement who first gained national attention in 1974 when she publicly explained on 60 Minutes why she and her then-husband didn't want children, a decision that cost her teaching job and led to intense backlash. She went on to lead the first chapter of the National Organization for Non-Parents, write influential books including Confessions of a Childfree Woman and What?! You Don't Want Children?, and help normalize childfree lifestyles. In recognition of her impact, she received a Lifetime Childfree Contribution Award and continues to be celebrated as a mentor and advocate for choice and acceptance of voluntary non-parenthood.
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MORE HELP FOR YOUR KIDS OR CHILDFREE DECISION
Start Here: sign up for an upcoming WORKSHOP
🔗 https://kidsorchildfree.com/workshop
Join a GROUP PROGRAM
🔗 Kids or Childfree Group Program ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/kids-or-childfree-program
🔗Confidently Childfree Group Intensive ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/confidently-childfree-group-intensive
Access an ON DEMAND class
🔗 Peruse the entire On Demand Collection ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/ondemand
Join one of our monthly SUPPORT SERIES sessions
🔗 Kids or Childfree Support Series ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/kids-or-childfree-support-series
🔗Confidently Childfree Support Series ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/confidently-childfree-support-series
Work with me in 1-on-1 COACHING
🔗 https://kidsorchildfree.com/coaching
FREE resources ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/free-resources
CONNECT ONLINE
💻 Website ▸ http://kidsorchildfree.com
📸 Instagram ▸ http://instagram.com/kidsorchildfree
⏰ Tiktok ▸ https://tiktok.com/@kidsorchildfree
📽️ YouTube ▸ https://www.youtube.com/@KidsorChildfree 
👉 Brought to you by Keltie Maguire, Clarity Coach ▸ http://keltiemaguire.com
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We're kicking off Season 7 of the podcast with financial experts and co-authors of the book "Money Together," Heather and Douglas Boneparth.
This conversation explores:
- The often-overlooked financial considerations that come with the decision to have children.
- Douglas and Heather's own financial hurdles when they first considered parenthood, including over $300,000 in student loan debt.
- Why emotional readiness can often take precedence over financial calculations — even when "the math doesn't math".
- The critical conversations you and your partner need to be having before having kids.
- Why "contribution" goes far beyond the financial, and how to navigate the topic of contribution when one or both parents steps away from or back from paid work to raise children. 
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(10:33) Financial planning & family planning
(25:03) Tips for financial planning for parents
(36:40) Division of labor
(50:15) Combining finances vs. maintaining separate finances
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Heather;s Instagram ▸ https://www.instagram.com/averagejoelle
Douglas's Instagram ▸ https://www.instagram.com/dougboneparth
Do Money online ▸ https://domoneytogether.com
Douglas and Heather's "The Joint Account" Newsletter ▸ https://www.readthejointaccount.com
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ABOUT HEATHER & DOUGLAS BONEPARTH
Douglas Boneparth, is the founder of Bone Fide Wealth, a wealth management firm in New York City. Recognized as one of the nation's most influential financial advisors, Douglas serves on the advisory councils for CNBC and Investopedia. He has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Barron's, and more. He is also a CFP Board Ambassador for New York. Douglas received his B.S. from the University of Florida and his M.B.A. from NYU's Stern School of Business. When he's not making jokes on the internet, he enjoys brewing coffee, though he can do both at the same time.
Heather Boneparth is used to wearing many hats. On her first maternity leave, she co-authored the couple's first book on helping millennials achieve financial freedom. Since then, she has become a rising voice at the intersection of love, money, and family. She has written for CNBC, theSkimm, Insider, Scary Mommy, and more. As a lawyer, she spent more than a decade in the insurance industry before joining the family business as Bone Fide Wealth's director of business and legal affairs. She received her B.S. from the University of Florida and her J.D. from the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law.
Heather and Douglas met in college and consider themselves Gators for life. They now live in New Jersey with their two daughters.
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MORE HELP FOR YOUR KIDS OR CHILDFREE DECISION
Start Here: sign up for an upcoming WORKSHOP
🔗 https://kidsorchildfree.com/workshop
Join a GROUP PROGRAM
🔗 Kids or Childfree Group Program ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/kids-or-childfree-program
🔗Confidently Childfree Group Intensive ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/confidently-childfree-group-intensive
Access an ON DEMAND class
🔗 Peruse the entire On Demand Collection ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/ondemand
Join one of our monthly SUPPORT SERIES sessions
🔗 Kids or Childfree Support Series ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/kids-or-childfree-support-series
🔗Confidently Childfree Support Series ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/confidently-childfree-support-series
Work with me in 1-on-1 COACHING
🔗 https://kidsorchildfree.com/coaching
FREE resources ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/free-resources
CONNECT ONLINE
💻 Website ▸ http://kidsorchildfree.com
📸 Instagram ▸ http://instagram.com/kidsorchildfree
⏰ Tiktok ▸ https://tiktok.com/@kidsorchildfree
📽️ YouTube ▸ https://www.youtube.com/@KidsorChildfree 
👉 Brought to you by Keltie Maguire, Clarity Coach ▸ http://keltiemaguire.com
Love what you're hearing? 💕 Subscribe | Like | Comment | Share with a friend

In this episode, Keltie Maguire discusses some of the key themes and insights that have come up in her private and group coaching sessions during Season 6 of The Kids or Childfree Podcast, as well as episodes from Season 6 that address these topics. 
 
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE 
👉 (1:57) Start with the clarity you DO have
▸ Lisa Sibbett on a "Childful" Life as an Auntie https://youtu.be/3jx_vDnN80U
▸ Lisa Patterson on Reinventing Parenting Gender Norms https://youtu.be/RIBohGjaQGc
▸ On Demand: Discover Your Desires https://keltiemaguire.thrivecart.com/discover-your-desires-on-demand/
 
👉 (9:37) Your value with or without children
▸ Laura Carroll on the Influence of Pronatalism on Your Kids or Childfree Choice https://youtu.be/hbcBNrDRCWA
▸ Zoë Noble on Cultivating Childfree Community https://youtu.be/LG66KPG2nzo
▸ On Demand: Other People https://keltiemaguire.thrivecart.com/other-people-on-demand/
 
👉 (18:58) Deciding from the place you are currently
▸ Carrie Hauskens on a Childfree Life After Loss https://youtu.be/ZAy40xWlFjw
▸ Lia Love Avellino, LCSW on Grieving Your Past Life in Motherhood https://youtu.be/VSyvll_I94c
▸ On Demand: Navigating Difficult Emotions https://keltiemaguire.thrivecart.com/navigating-difficult-emotions-on-demand/
 
👉 (29:41) Accept & embrace the unknown 
▸ Ask Anne with Childfree 91-Year-Old Anne Wennhold https://youtu.be/EalIknfBD9U
▸ Katie Palazzo on Life as an Adventurer Turned Stay-At-Home Mom https://youtu.be/yZaVidB4WDQ
▸ On Demand: An Uncertain Future https://keltiemaguire.thrivecart.com/an-uncertain-future-on-demand/
 
_ 
MORE HELP FOR YOUR KIDS OR CHILDFREE DECISION
Start Here: sign up for an upcoming WORKSHOP 
🔗 https://kidsorchildfree.com/workshop
Join a GROUP PROGRAM
🔗 Kids or Childfree Group Program ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/kids-or-childfree-program
🔗Confidently Childfree Group Intensive ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/confidently-childfree-group-intensive
Access an ON DEMAND class 
🔗 Peruse the entire On Demand Collection ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/ondemand
Join one of our monthly SUPPORT SERIES sessions 
🔗 Kids or Childfree Support Series ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/kids-or-childfree-support-series
🔗Confidently Childfree Support Series ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/confidently-childfree-support-series
Work with me in 1-on-1 COACHING 
🔗 https://kidsorchildfree.com/coaching FREE resources ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/free-resources
CONNECT ONLINE
💻 Website ▸ http://kidsorchildfree.com
📸 Instagram ▸ http://instagram.com/kidsorchildfree
⏰ Tiktok ▸ https://tiktok.com/@kidsorchildfree
📽️ YouTube ▸ https://www.youtube.com/@KidsorChildfree 
👉 Brought to you by Keltie Maguire, Clarity Coach ▸ http://keltiemaguire.com
Love what you're hearing? 💕 Subscribe | Like | Comment | Share with a friend

In this conversation, Keltie Maguire is joined by We Are Childfree founder, Zoë Noble, for a conversation that's a celebration of the childfree choice.

Hear them discuss:
The inspiration behind We Are Childfree and why Zoë personally chose the childfree path


How friendships — and especially those with parents — can evolve over time


How to cultivate childfree community 


The myths surrounding aging without children


The importance of advocating for a more inclusive and understanding childfree community
(1:05) Meet Zoë, We Are Childfree, and her Kids or Childfree decision
(18:19) Zoë's childfree decision with her partner James
(26:15) Childfree community and friendships
(37:37) Aging while childfree
(46:33) Living an ordinary or extraordinary life without kids
(1:00:28) Celebrating the childfree choice
 
As mentioned in the show:

Find We Are Childfree online at wearechildfree.com.

Join We Are Childfree'a private community here: wwearechildfree.com/join

We Are Childfree is on social media at:
Instagram at instagram.com/weare.childfree
TikTok at tiktok.com/@wearechildfree
YouTube at youtube.com/c/WeareChildfree

Tune into the We Are Childfree podcast: wearechildfree.com/podcasts


About Zoë:

Zoe Noble is a photographer and the founder of We are Childfree, a global movement celebrating childfree lives. Through portraits, podcasts and workshops, she works to destigmatise non-parenthood and build inclusive communities where childfree people feel seen, supported and empowered to live authentically.
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MORE HELP FOR YOUR KIDS OR CHILDFREE DECISION
Start Here: sign up for an upcoming WORKSHOP
🔗 https://kidsorchildfree.com/workshop
Join a GROUP PROGRAM
🔗 Kids or Childfree Group Program ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/kids-or-childfree-program
🔗Confidently Childfree Group Intensive ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/confidently-childfree-group-intensive
Access an ON DEMAND class
🔗 Peruse the entire On Demand Collection ▸ https://www.kidsorchildfree.com/ondemand
Join one of our monthly SUPPORT SERIES sessions
🔗 Kids or Childfree Support Series ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/kids-or-childfree-support-series
🔗Confidently Childfree Support Series ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/confidently-childfree-support-series
Work with me in 1-on-1 COACHING
🔗 https://kidsorchildfree.com/coaching
FREE resources ▸ https://kidsorchildfree.com/free-resources
CONNECT ONLINE
💻 Website ▸ http://kidsorchildfree.com
📸 Instagram ▸ http://instagram.com/kidsorchildfree
⏰ Tiktok ▸ https://tiktok.com/@kidsorchildfree
📽️ YouTube ▸ https://www.youtube.com/@KidsorChildfree 
👉 Brought to you by Keltie Maguire, Clarity Coach ▸ http://keltiemaguire.com
Love what you're hearing? 💕 Subscribe | Like | Comment | Share with a friend