The Secure Start® Podcast

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Children’s homes are getting smaller, placement by placement, policy by policy, until “care” can start to look like isolation. I sit down with social care leader Dr Kevin Gallagher to ask a hard question that affects the UK, Australia, and any out-of-home care system under pressure: what do young people lose when we design residential care around risk avoidance instead of recovery and relationships?

We break down what a residential therapeutic community actually is, and why the word “community” matters. Kevin explains therapeutic childcare as an intentional, whole-of-organisation approach where boundaries and safety come first, then routines, staff support, reflective practice, and clinically informed relational work shape the day-to-day “emotional climate”. We also tackle the messier reality that “therapeutic” is often used as a broad label. If commissioners and regulators cannot tell the difference between models, children end up in a postcode lottery where the service description does not match lived experience.

From there, we zoom out to system design: the UK can show oversupply on paper while still lacking the right mix of provision. We explore why smaller two-bed homes have become the default, how that affects cost and staff isolation, and why well-run group living can offer unique therapeutic benefits like peer learning, belonging, and practising life with others. We also name the limits clearly: larger groups only work when they are planned and purposeful, matched to need, and built on containment.

If you care about trauma-informed residential care, commissioning, leaving care transitions, or the future of therapeutic communities, this conversation will sharpen your thinking. Subscribe, share this with a colleague, and leave a review to help more people find the show. What should the “right mix” of residential care look like where you live?
About Kevin:
Kevin is a qualified social worker, organisational consultant, and managing director.
He has worked in residential care and education for 30 years (with Amberleigh since 2015), from front line practitioner, through management roles and into leadership in a diverse range of organisational structures, both public and private. 

Kevins passion is for therapeutic residential care and education, promoting the use of quality improvement standards. 

He is an Advisory Group member and Therapeutic Care Specialist at the Royal College of Psychiatrists. 

Kevin has been a trustee of The Consortium for Therapeutic Communities for over a decade, supporting and developing therapeutic practice across the UK, in particular, supporting local authorities to commission specialist provision. 

Additionally, Kevin assists providers in strengthening models and practice. 

Kevin is a very public campaigner for better understanding and use of residential care through a focus on practice evidence.
Links:

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheSecureStartPodcast
Podcast Blog Site: https://thesecurestartpodcast.com/
Secure Start Site: https://securestart.com.au/
Disclaimer: 
Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce. Finally, all references to case examples are anonymised to the extent that the actual case could not be identified, or are fictional but based on real-life examples for illustrative purposes, or have client consent to talk about in an educative context.
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The word “love” can feel risky in child protection, but we keep coming back to it because the best care is never just a checklist. I'm joined by Kate Brown, an attachment-based psychoanalytic psychotherapist and supervisor, former therapeutic community practitioner, and editor-in-chief of the Attachment journal. Kate also completed a PhD on the Cotswold Community, asking a deceptively hard question: what was the “unspoken but unmistakable” presence of love that people wrote about, and how did it actually show up day to day?

We unpack “therapeutic love” as something you do, not something you declare. Kate draws on a grounded definition: care, respect, responsibility and knowledge. From the temperature of a cup of hot chocolate to taking responsibility for mistakes, we talk about how trauma-informed residential therapeutic childcare is built from hundreds of small, thoughtful acts that create containment, safety and the possibility of secure attachment. We also explore the intergenerational lens: what children receive now can shape the adults and parents they become later, even if the benefits are hard to measure in short-term outcomes and tidy KPIs.

Then we go to the hard edges of the work: violence, restraint, staff defensiveness, and the question of whether staff themselves feel held by management and systems. Kate shares why reflective practice, supervision, external consultancy and genuine care for staff are not “nice to have” extras, but protections against burnout and harmful cultures. We finish by challenging the idea that residential care should always be a last resort, and what it takes to do it well: the right staff, clear routines, strong assessment and real transparency.

If you found this conversation useful, subscribe, share it with someone in child and family services, and leave us a review with your biggest takeaway.
About Kate:
Kate Brown, PhD, is a Bowlby Centre-trained UKCP-registered attachment-basedpsychoanalytic psychotherapist who started her career in therapeutic communities working with adults and adolescents individually and in groups. 
Kate has worked with young mothers and in community psychiatric services with patients’ families. She has also worked with former servicemen who had experienced complex trauma. 
Kate is a course tutor at The Bowlby Centre, and has delivered freelance training. Kate completed an MSc in psychotherapeutic approaches in mental health in 2012, and completed her PhD at Middlesex University entitled “Where is the love? A psychoanalytic history of the Cotswold Community”.

Email: kb@talktherapy.net
Our Links:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheSecureStartPodcast.               
Podcast Blog Site: https://thesecurestartpodcast.com/

Disclaimer:

Disclaimer: Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce. Finally, all references to case examples are anonymised to the extent that the actual case could not be identified, or are fictional but based on real-life examples for illustrative purposes, or have client consent to talk about in an educative context.
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If you’ve ever watched a care team get dragged into chaos and wondered why “good practice” disappears under pressure, this conversation gives you a clearer answer than blame or burnout. We sit down with Simon Benjamin, founder of Blue Skies Independent Consulting, to unpack a hard truth from trauma informed therapeutic care: great outcomes for children are built on organisational health, not just individual skill or good intentions.

We talk leadership from the inside out, including what Simon learned moving from frontline residential care to CEO, and why coaching can be the difference between reacting all day and leading with purpose. We dig into Patrick Lencioni’s Five Dysfunctions of a Team and the idea of vulnerability based trust: the ability to say “I don’t know”, challenge decisions early, and create psychological safety that makes honest conflict possible. In therapeutic organisations, that culture isn’t optional, because we ask children to take emotional risks and we need leaders to model the same courage.

We also get practical about what “therapeutic” should mean in residential child care and other out-of-home care settings. Simon explains the “therapeutic level” idea using a medical dose analogy and outlines what it takes to reach it: consistent repairing experiences, ongoing training, reflective practice, and structured debriefs that help shift teams stay aligned. We finish by tackling cost, funding levers, ROI, and the outcomes that actually matter when defining success.

Subscribe to Secure Start, share this episode with a leader in your network, and leave a review. What’s one leadership behaviour you think most improves care quality?
Simon's Bio:
Simon Benjamin is the Principal Consultant and founder of Blue Skies Independent Consulting. Simon works across two worlds — trauma-informed therapeutic care and organisational health.  He brings over twenty years of experience from frontline residential care through to CEO level, in therapeutic care.
Simon's Website: https://blueskies.net.au/
Our Links:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheSecureStartPodcast.               
Podcast Blog Site: https://thesecurestartpodcast.com/

Disclaimer:

Disclaimer: Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce. Finally, all references to case examples are anonymised to the extent that the actual case could not be identified, or are fictional but based on real-life examples for illustrative purposes, or have client consent to talk about in an educative context.

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A young person once told our guest, “You’re the first adult I’ve ever had a conversation with.” That single line sets the tone for a deep, practical look at what makes therapeutic residential care work and what quietly breaks it. I sit down with Doug, an evaluator and long-time practitioner in youth and community work, to talk about how trust is built through small, repeatable actions and why being heard can be a turning point for children and young people living with complex trauma in out-of-home care.

We dig into the evidence from Victoria’s therapeutic residential care pilots and six subsequent outcome evaluations. Doug explains why data collection is not a “nice to have” but part of trauma-informed practice: it helps teams see progress they would otherwise miss, builds staff self-efficacy, and supports young people to develop a different internal story about who they are. We explore the specific measures used, including HoNOSCA, the Strengths and Difficulties Questionnaire, and outcome scales designed to capture both reductions in harmful behaviours and the growth of positive capacities like relationships, self-care, and stability.

Several essential elements come through clearly: the catalytic role of therapeutic specialists, rostered reflective practice meetings, consistent and trained staffing, and a placement approach that respects agency and matching. We also tackle the hard questions about cost, redundancy, and why forced placements can “explode” good work, then walk through the economic finding that a large portion of added cost can be recouped quickly through reduced hospital use, police involvement, and placement disruption.

Douglas's Bio:

Director Faircloth McNair and Associates
Contact & Information: https://www.fairclothmcnair.com.au/

I am full of hope, and I dream that the collective effort of people of goodwill can improve the lives of countless children and young people who face adversity in their childhood.

I have 25 years of consulting expertise and experience in provision of research, evaluations, reviews and other project work for Government and not for profits in child protection, First Nations support, Disability and Aged Care. My consulting work is augmented by 3 decades of counselling, pastoral and youth work.

I have led 6 outcome and 1 place-based evaluations of therapeutic residential out of home care (TRC) services in Australia over 4 state jurisdictions from 2011 to 2022 using comparable methods and tools supporting longitudinal insight into poor and unmanaged mental health of young people in Australia's Out of Home Care system.

I have also led:
• The review of Placement Prevention and Reunification Services for Aboriginal Children, Young People and their Families in Victoria (2016)
• A project providing Therapeutic Residential Care System Development and Design for all NSW Residential Out of Home Care services (2016)
• A evaluation of therapeutically designed and delivered intervention for young people
‘The Goodlife Farm’ (2019)
• The research, evidence and design to develop and deliver youth Centres that support
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander young people to break the cycle of disadvantage
and to thrive – for the Message Stick Foundation (2023 -2025)

The work I have participated in has drawn national and international recognition for its impact and for its solution focus. The recognition is demonstrated relevant Reports,

Submissions, Citations and Presentations (available for review at:
https://www.fairclothmcnair.com.au/citations-and-references-faircloth-mcnair-and-associates

Links:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheSecureStartPodcast.               
Podcast Blog Site: https://thesecurestartpodcast.com/

Disclaimer:

Disclaimer: Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce. Finally, all references to case examples are anonymised to the extent that the actual case could not be identified, or are fictional but based on real-life examples for illustrative purposes, or have client consent to talk about in an educative context.
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If you think you can do therapeutic residential care and leave it all at the door, Marie Clutton has a gentle challenge for you. Young people notice what we carry, even when we do our best to hide it, and they can spot the difference between performance and authenticity in seconds. That single truth reshapes how we think about professional distance, boundaries, and what it means to be a safe adult around boys and young men who have experienced trauma and displayed harmful sexual behaviour. 

Marie brings over 20 years of experience in therapeutic childcare and therapeutic community practice at Amberleigh Care, an accredited service supporting young males aged 11 to 18. We talk about how a therapeutic community differs from general residential care, including the role of group work, community meetings, and the idea that relationships are the treatment, not something that sits alongside it. You’ll hear why connection and belonging can be protective factors, and how peer support plus peer challenge can open doors that adult-led interventions often cannot. 

We also get practical about safeguarding and risk management: individual risk assessments, structured routines, strong communication, and regular reviews. Along the way, we name the emotional reality for staff too and the importance of containment spaces like reflective group supervision and staff dynamics, so the work does not spill destructively into home life. 

If you care about trauma-informed care, child protection, youth justice, harmful sexual behaviour interventions, or safer residential care practice, this conversation offers both heart and rigour. Subscribe to Secure Start, share this episode with a colleague, and leave a review to help more people find it. What part of relational safety do you think the sector still underestimates?
Marie's Bio:
Marie brings over 25 years of experience in therapeutic childcare and residential care management. She has been part of Amberleigh Care for two decades and possesses extensive expertise in leading within a therapeutic community (TC). She is a qualified groupwork practitioner, holds a Diploma from the IGA, qualified in care leadership and management, is a designated safeguarding lead, is trained DDP Level 2 and  AIM3 Assessment and Intervention, and holds a diploma in Child Care.
Amberleigh Care operates two accredited therapeutic communities for young people, and Marie oversees all therapeutic community processes across the organisation. Her responsibilities include facilitating group dynamics, and collaborating with care, therapy, and education teams. She also works directly with young people in group settings to ensure they feel heard, valued, and engaged within the community.
Marie continues to support young people after they leave Amberleigh Care through peer mentor roles, enabling them to remain connected, share experiences, and contribute to the development of the communities. She is also involved in external events, providing young people with opportunities to share their stories through presentations and workshops.
Marie has served as co-chair of the TCTC Children’s Network for over five years and contributes to research initiatives that support wider professional networks.
Links:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheSecureStartPodcast.                
Podcast Blog Site: https://thesecurestartpodcast.com/
Disclaimer:

Disclaimer: Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce. Finally, all references to case examples are anonymised to the extent that the actual case could not be identified, or are fictional but based on real-life examples for illustrative purposes, or have client consent to talk about in an educative context.
Support the show